is there any logic to this? sports shooting

[johneric8]

I will admit I have done little to no sports photography in my days but I'm going to be like lots of my fellow shutterbugs on the forum and take some pictures at my wives best friends volleyball game this thursday. I'm good to go with the composition end of things but I'm trying to sort out a few details that I hope someone can help with.

Here is my thinking, I will be shooting in a poorly lit high school gym and I'm quite sure I'm going to use at least 3200 ISO shooting in Raw. I use various noise programs to limit the noise in post processing. My thoughts are to try some AI servo shots with the center AF activated shooting in manual mode at my desired shutter speed of no less then 1/500th of a sec with my aperture wide open. I am aware that the images most likely will be underexposed by a few stops but I'm banking on being able to bump them up in my raw editing software. I'm also going to do some manual focus shooting using pre-focusing as well. I will have a 70-200 2.8 L and a 50 mm 1.4 prime. I will have the camera set using the back button to focus using the custom funtion 4/3 I know that wont matter much in Manual mode but I guess it will be cool if I use AV priority. I know it seems like I have it all planned out but I really dont, I'm confused as all get out. Can some of the greats on here give me one last piece of advice so I can give this wonderful family a few decent shots?

P.S I have a monopod as well

Blessings

[transcend]

bumping up the stops in post will create a ton of noise at 3200 iso.

[tucked]

I shot my first HS volleyball game tonight. Things went pretty smooth. I shot with my 85mm f/1.8. I was able to use 800 ISO, f/1.8, 1/250. That speed provided pretty good action stopping speeds... except for the ball & arm on a spike... but I thought that looked pretty good to have some motion when everybody knows the ball should be flying! I would not try to intentionally underexpose.. and then bump up. Transcend was right.. ISO 3200, then increasing exposure in PP will not be pleasant. As far as the monopod, I don't think you'll need that, as the shutter speed you will be using will be fast enough to stop camera motion. Good luck. Post results.

[tim]

I try not to use ISO3200 unless I really have to, it doesn't clean up that well, but for web sized pics it'd probably be ok. Use the 50mm F1.4 @ F1.4 or F1.8, play with shutter speeds, zoom in on the previews and see if they're sharp.

Oh yeah - underexposing then boosting in software's a bad idea, it creates WAY more noise than taking the shot properly in the first place.

[grego]

You have a 20D, so i'd say shoot RAW at 1600. Use M and force it to atleast to 1/400 at min. Then with Raw and a program with Neat Image, you can fix the images. That's where RAW is valuable. You don't want to use AV because the lighting in the gym spotty so the settings will change depending on where you are looking at.

[Andy_T]

Plus, use your 580 if you're allowed to do so.

Best regards,
Andy

[zakabog]

I took these two pictures at a Knick's game, now I know the lighting conditions at Madison Square Garden, and at a high school gym are slightly different, but I really wanted to show you them because the shutter speed is lower than 1/500. The first picture is a crop of one of the pictures I took and it's at 1/320 with my 50mm lens (my only longer lens is the kit lens that comes with the film rebel which is too slow) at f/2.5 and ISO 800. The second is at 1/250 with the same lens at f/3.5 and ISO 800. In both shots, even at full size when I zoom in, there's no blur. So I think you'll be safe going below 1/500. And if you're not, well you've got a digital camera, so you can just look at the picture, see if it's blurry, and adjust the shutter speed.

[PacAce]

I will admit I have done little to no sports photography in my days but I'm going to be like lots of my fellow shutterbugs on the forum and take some pictures at my wives best friends volleyball game this thursday. I'm good to go with the composition end of things but I'm trying to sort out a few details that I hope someone can help with.

Here is my thinking, I will be shooting in a poorly lit high school gym and I'm quite sure I'm going to use at least 3200 ISO shooting in Raw. I use various noise programs to limit the noise in post processing. My thoughts are to try some AI servo shots with the center AF activated shooting in manual mode at my desired shutter speed of no less then 1/500th of a sec with my aperture wide open. I am aware that the images most likely will be underexposed by a few stops but I'm banking on being able to bump them up in my raw editing software. I'm also going to do some manual focus shooting using pre-focusing as well. I will have a 70-200 2.8 L and a 50 mm 1.4 prime. I will have the camera set using the back button to focus using the custom funtion 4/3 I know that wont matter much in Manual mode but I guess it will be cool if I use AV priority. I know it seems like I have it all planned out but I really dont, I'm confused as all get out. Can some of the greats on here give me one last piece of advice so I can give this wonderful family a few decent shots?

P.S I have a monopod as well

Blessings
If you want to use 1/500 as your shutter speed with the aperture wide open, then you don't want to use Av. What you want is to use Tv. The reason? 1/500 is pretty fast for available light shooting inside a gym. At that speed, I'll bet a nickle your aperture will open up wide to the max and you still won't have enough light. So, in Av mode, what's going to happen is that your shutter speed is going to drop way below the 1/500 you said you wanted to use (btw, I think 1/500 is way too fast and you should be using something more like 1/250 or even slower, but that's beside the point here :) ).

Now, if you set the camera to Tv mode and set the shutter to 1/500, then the aperture will open up all the way and even start to blink 'cuz you need more light than your max aperture can give you at the shutter speed you selected.

[pcasciola]

I agree with Leo. While 1/500 sounds great, it is probably unattainable in most school gyms, especially at f/2.8. I often switch to Tv mode in these situations as well with my 85/1.8, and try to get 1/160-1/250 at ISO 1600-3200. I suspect you will get much better results with the 50/1.4 where you might actually be able to get away with ISO 800-1600 and maybe still get 1/200-1/250. Be careful with that shallow DOF though.

Underexposing to bump up your shutter speeds when needed is not a bad strategy either, but I only do it as a last resort. It will create more noise, but noise beats blur any day of the week.

Good luck.

[johneric8]

Thanks guys incredibly valuble information. I will take notes from your post and give it all a go.

Blessings

[DavidW]

Unless I'm mistaken, what happens if you have insufficient light for a chosen speed in Tv mode depends on whether you have the "safety shift" custom function enabled.

If safety shift is disabled (the default), you'll get an underexposed picture. You'll get a blinking reminder in the viewfinder display to tell you that you're underexposing.

If safety shift is enabled, the camera will opt for a slower shutter speed to expose correctly.



David

[PacAce]

Unless I'm mistaken, what happens if you have insufficient light for a chosen speed in Tv mode depends on whether you have the "safety shift" custom function enabled.

If safety shift is disabled (the default), you'll get an underexposed picture. You'll get a blinking reminder in the viewfinder display to tell you that you're underexposing.

If safety shift is enabled, the camera will opt for a slower shutter speed to expose correctly.



David
If you are referring to the safety shift custom function (C.Fn-16 on the 20D), then I don't believe it works the way you are describing. This function is used to prevent under or over exposure when the lighting changing suddenly after the exposure settings have been set and the picture is about to be taken.

Perhaps you are thinking of C.Fn=03 but that's only applicable when a flash is being used.

[pcasciola]

I think you are both right but describing the function differently. On the 20D, with safety shift enabled in Tv, if the maximum aperture of the lens would result in an underexposure, the aperture will blink, and after you press the shutter release, the shutter speed will automatically be adjusted down to give you the proper exposure, as if you were shooting in Av mode at the lenses maximum aperture.

[DavidW]

Thanks to Philip for his clarification. I am talking about the 20D, and have observed it behaving in the way he and I described with the safety shift on, and flash not in use.

Similarly in Av mode, I've seen the camera go for a wider aperture to avoid underexposure with the safety shift on.


Nevertheless, I think that the explanation of safety shift in the manual is unclear, and would welcome any further clarification.



David

[pcasciola]

Similarly in Av mode, I've seen the camera go for a wider aperture to avoid underexposure with the safety shift on.In my experience it's the other way around in Av mode, where safety shift only comes into effect if the maximum shutter speed of the 20D is reached, in which case it will narrow the aperture to prevent an overexposure, but an underexposure in Av mode can be adjusted for with a slower shutter speed without having to open up the aperture. Maybe I just haven't seen the case where it can't set the shutter speed slow enough to compensate, though.

[DavidW]

It was an admittedly forced case where I saw the aperture being opened up - indoors, dim lighting, ISO 100, no flash. The camera was set to Av at f/11.

Maybe we need a thread about safety shift and how it behaves.



David

[pcasciola]

Yep, you're right. I just forced the issue, and once the 30" shutter speed was reached, it opened up the aperture.

[PacAce]

Thanks for the clarification, guys. Now I understand what you're talking about. It's something like you're shooting in Av or Tv mode and if you didn't select the appropriate setting to begin with, the camera sort of takes control and behaves the way it would if it were set to P mode, right? Sort of? :D

[pcasciola]

It's something like you're shooting in Av or Tv mode and if you didn't select the appropriate setting to begin with, the camera sort of takes control and behaves the way it would if it were set to P mode, right? Sort of? :DYou're right. Tv with safety shift in the case of an underexposure does behave just like P mode. I just compared the two modes and that's exactly what happened, and expsoure comensation is also handled the same in both cases as well. Good to know.

I still leave it off though most of the time. When I use Tv it's usually because I want nothing less than that shutter speed, even if it causes a slight underexposure.