workflow

[Crypto]

I constantly grapple over which workflow process produces the best resized JPEG image for emailing and other web based uses. I know there probably isn't one way that's best, but I'm interested in which method is recommended or prefered by the experts.

note:the below "save" is not refering to archiving. Also, I usually copy the original for post processing, for obvious reasons.
1) Raw -> convert to JPG -> save post processed JPG
2) Raw -> convert to TIFF -> save post processed JPG
3) Raw -> save post processed JPG
4) JPG -> save post processed JPG
5) JPG -> TIFF -> save post processed JPG

I have tried all of these with mixed results.

thanks

[J Rabin]

But, what's the rest of your workflow? As typical in PhotoShop, there are 3-6 different right ways to do something. So, I'll share mine, since I'm interested in this topic.
1. Files downloaded and imported into iView Media Pro. Folders given alpha numeric date sort name and files are renamed. Rough IPTC metadata inserted (©, etc) and embedded.
2. Canon .CR2 or .CRW converted in Adobe ACR to 16-bit TIF, in either ProPhotoRGB (landscape scenics) or AdobeRGB (people) color space, no Sharpening, adjust WB, Contrast, Exposure. Done right very little PhotoShop work remains.
3. 16-bit TIF is Capture Sharpened with PhotoKit Sharpener plug-in, either individually or in a PS Batch Action. Editing like desaturation red skin, shadow/highlight, cropping, adjustments performed. Layers flattened.
4. This 16-bit TIF and RAW are the backed up archive files.

Images for web or e-mail get the following workflow treatment:

5. Folders or Groups of TIF image files above are temporarily placed in 2 subfolders separated by Horiz or Vertical orientation.
6. Two recorded PhotoShop Batch Actions automatically convert the Horiz or Vert folder TIFs to 800x600, 800x533, 600x800, etc with following parameters: Convrt to 8-bit, sRGB Color Space, Perceptual Rendering Intent, 72 dpi, Bicubic Sharper, Save as JPEG Compression 8.

The result, on auto pilot with little effort, is a nice approx. 130-240 Kb file for the web.
E.g., here is a nice 130 Kb image, 600x800 Vertical, converted this way:
http://aesop.rutgers.edu/~rabin/T-Town%20Lehigh%20Velo/Charles_C/slides/Charles%20C%20at%20T-Town%2001.htm

BTW 1. I consistently UNDERSHARPEN my images. I just do not like the over sharpened digital look, so I do not use the web output JPEG sharpening tools in PhotoKit and/or PhotoShop. The only time I sharpen hard (on a non-destructive layer) is when going to print.
Thus, the images like the one above, may not look appropriately sharp to some folks.

BTW 2. Why do I convert from RAW to ProPhotoRGB? Because it allows me to retain yellows and greens that would otherwise have saturation clipping. Reminds me of good E-6 processed slides. Like this:
http://aesop.rutgers.edu/~rabin/Sunflower%20Grow-Sell/slides/Sunflower%20Production%203.htm

BTW 3. iView Media Pro, my image catalog software of choice, also does batch conversions. But, I'm used to PS Batch Actions, and I trust its control over rendering intent and compression.

Does this Workflow seem OK? Basically, these are based on Adobe Camera RAW author and PhotoKit sharpener guru Bruce Fraser's recommendations.

Jack

[Crypto]

so you prefer to work with the TIFF. Thanks for all the info. Very helpful. Great shots too. I love it when I see those small resized images that look as good as the original.

[maderito]

I constantly grapple over which workflow process produces the best resized JPEG image for emailing and other web based uses. Web pics are typically small files (roughly 50K to 200K) with moderate JPEG compression. If someone wants to obtain or make a print based on a web-resized pics, then you need to be able to send a higher resolution image (e.g. 1-2 MB JPEG file size).

I convert RAW to 16 bit TIFFs for editing.

After completing editing, I flatten the image and save as an 8 bit JPEG with minimal compression (quality 8-10 in Photoshop).

For web display and exchange, I resize the JPEGS and save in a separate folder, keeping the original JPEG.

Usually I delete the edited TIFFs (for space reasons). I am left with the original RAW, the JPEG version of the edited file, and when needed, downsized JPEGs for the web.

That's what I do; can't speak for the experts. :confused:

[Crypto]

Web pics are typically small files (roughly 50K to 200K) with moderate JPEG compression. If someone wants to obtain or make a print based on a web-resized pics, then you need to be able to send a higher resolution image (e.g. 1-2 MB JPEG file size).

I convert RAW to 16 bit TIFFs for editing.

After completing editing, I flatten the image and save as an 8 bit JPEG with minimal compression (quality 8-10 in Photoshop).

For web display and exchange, I resize the JPEGS and save in a separate folder, keeping the original JPEG.

Usually I delete the edited TIFFs (for space reasons). I am left with the original RAW, the JPEG version of the edited file, and when needed, downsized JPEGs for the web.

That's what I do; can't speak for the experts. :confused:

re: Interesting, you don't resize from the TIFF for the web? You resize from the final JPG, yet again compressing when you save.
thanks for the info

[J Rabin]

so you prefer to work with the TIFF.

Yes. Always. HD space and DVDs are cheap. My archive file needs to be uncompressed lossless. As noted, I only make JPGs when creating for web.

Lossless TIF are used for sharpening, printing, for DVD slide shows, future editing, etc.

Jack

[pxl8]

For web based images my workflow is pretty simple.

Convert raw to max. jpeg in Canon DPP fixing WB, exp, etc.
Import into Paint Shop Pro 9, run Digital Camera Noise Removal
Resize to 800 on the longest edge (sometimes 1024)
Run USM with settings around 1, 50%, 3 to recover sharpness lost during scaling.
Save as a jpeg using the optimizer to limit file size to under 200k

Some examples here:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=104420
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=101300
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=104002

I used to use Capture One for raw conversion but it's decided to crash on a regular basis now and is too much trouble.

[daviddee]

I convert RAW to 16 bit TIFFs for editing. .... Usually I delete the edited TIFFs (for space reasons). :confused:

Maderito, this is probably just something I don't understand, but what do you mean by converting to TIFFs for editing? In PSCS2, after making adjustments to the RAW file, and clicking "open" the image opens in PS where further editing can be done. Is the file in TIFF format automatically at this point? I had thought that it's at the "save" stage that the file is saved as a TIFF, JEPG etc. Please help me understand...

Kevin.

[jimsolt]

Maderito, this is probably just something I don't understand, but what do you mean by converting to TIFFs for editing? In PSCS2, after making adjustments to the RAW file, and clicking "open" the image opens in PS where further editing can be done. Is the file in TIFF format automatically at this point? I had thought that it's at the "save" stage that the file is saved as a TIFF, JEPG etc. Please help me understand...

Kevin.
When you make adjustments to the RAW file and click "open" in the RAW converter in PSCS2, the image opens for further editing in CS2 proper without changing the file format. The RAW adjustments have become part of the metadata in the RAW file.

You can then make further edits and at that point when you click "save" you are offered options of what format to save in. TIFF is one, PSD is another. If you chose to, you could make some further adjustments, mode, flatten, etc., and go directly to jpeg. You do not have to change file formats in order to edit.

Jim

[maderito]

Maderito, this is probably just something I don't understand, but what do you mean by converting to TIFFs for editing? In PSCS2, after making adjustments to the RAW file, and clicking "open" the image opens in PS where further editing can be done. Is the file in TIFF format automatically at this point? I had thought that it's at the "save" stage that the file is saved as a TIFF, JEPG etc. Please help me understand...

Kevin. Jim explained it well.

In my mind, when I take an image from RAW to 16 bit image editing mode in Photoshop, I'm working on a TIFF file - which of course it isn't until I explicitly save it as so - as you and Jim point out.

Odd thing. . .the intermediate post-RAW conversion, pre-TIFF/PSD image does not have a file format name. It carries the RAW file extension, but when you perform a simple "Save" you have to choose a definitive extension - jpg, tif, psd, etc. Thus it doesn't actually exist until you save it. How odd. How many beautifully edited images were lost after RAW conversion because we don't fully understand that converted and edited images don't exist until we save them? ;)

[daviddee]

Thanks Jim and Woody - that consolidates it for me.

Woody, I like that last question that you pose!

Kevin DD.

[jimsolt]

Jim explained it well.

In my mind, when I take an image from RAW to 16 bit image editing mode in Photoshop, I'm working on a TIFF file - which of course it isn't until I explicitly save it as so - as you and Jim point out.

Odd thing. . .the intermediate post-RAW conversion, pre-TIFF/PSD image does not have a file format name. It carries the RAW file extension, but when you perform a simple "Save" you have to choose a definitive extension - jpg, tif, psd, etc. Thus it doesn't actually exist until you save it. How odd. How many beautifully edited images were lost after RAW conversion because we don't fully understand that converted and edited images don't exist until we save them? ;)
If I understand you correctly . . . no images are lost. Any adjustments you made to the RAW file are not lost unless you cancel the conversion or make the adjustments and elect to not retain them. There are options to do that or to save the adjustments without opening the file in CS2. The adjustments are in the metadata of the RAW file, and they will be there unless you remove them. Now after that, if you make adjustments (edits) in CS2 and don't save them, those edits are lost.

Jim

[maderito]

If I understand you correctly . . . no images are lost. Any adjustments you made to the RAW file are not lost unless you cancel the conversion or make the adjustments and elect to not retain them. There are options to do that or to save the adjustments without opening the file in CS2. The adjustments are in the metadata of the RAW file, and they will be there unless you remove them. Now after that, if you make adjustments (edits) in CS2 and don't save them, those edits are lost.

Jim Right. Adjustments in ACR (temp, tint, exposure, shadows, etc) are saved in the metadata. Once the RAW file is converted and loaded into PS, any additional edits are, of course, lost unless you save the file in tif, jpg, psd or other format.

[tzalman]

Jpg, Tif, Png and all the rest are actually STORAGE formats. What is displayed is in memory only and is actually in PS's particular version of a sort of Bitmap - every graphic application has its own version. Only when you save the file, that is write it to the hard disc do you specify the storage format. Of course, if you need to finish the operations done in a certain application and then start a new process in another application, the file must be saved in-between. One important reason for doing that save in Tif is that it supports 16 bit depth, an attribute that is essential for editing images in ProPhoto, Widegamut and similarly wide color spaces, advisable when in AdobeRGB and recommended even in sRGB if the editing involves large shifts of color or brightness and/or many complex steps.
Elie