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SunnyOctopus
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 15:29
Why Do Most Photographers Use Macs?

ChasP505
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 15:32
Why Do Most Photographers Use Macs?

Please cite your reference source...

Voaky999
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 15:37
Why Do Most Photographers Use Macs?

Do they?

nonameowns
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 15:39
not many photographers use mac.. but mac in general are excel for design so anything goes for art.

gjl711
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 15:41
I would be interested in seeing the source as well. With MacOS hovering around 7% I would make the assumption that the majority of photographers edit using some variant of a Windows OS. A small percentage of them edit on Macs, and an even smaller percentage on some Linux variant.

PerfectTan
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 15:44
Why Do Most Photographers Use Macs?

Now where did you get the information from?

ProwlingTiger
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 15:53
I believe the general perception is that creative people tend to use Macs more than Windows-based computers. I use Mac simply because I got fed up with all the bull**** that comes along with Windows and I got hooked by Apple when I got my first iPod. Everything just seems to work, and far better than on my Windows machine. Notice that I do still in fact use Windows, just built a new machine in February in fact. Windows 7 is a good improvement for Microsoft, but everytime I use my Mac, I appreciate Mac all the more. Some say it's personal preference, others say one is better than the other. I'm inclined to think it's a bit of both.

dalto
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 16:23
I agree that there is a perception that creative people use Macs more. In the professional world I think that it is true. Especially in the publishing/printing space. There was a point, many years ago, where the there was much more creative software available for Mac than PC.

As for if it is better? I have been a part of many conversations between Mac and PC advocates. My experience is that it is all about what you are used to. The Mac users will talk about the things that Mac has and the Windows users will talk about all the things that Windows has. Both are used to their respective platforms and neither are interested interested in changing.

Higgs Boson
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 16:27
I haven't used a Mac since 5th grade when I played Oregon Trail in computer class. I haven't desired one since.

In my experience it isn't photographers who use Macs it's Oregon Trail gamers.

ni$mo350
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 16:28
I thought about going Mac and really liked the layout but the price was a huge factor. I built my new rig a few months ago and really wanted a 27" iMac but just couldn't justify the price. Maybe down the line but I'm more than happy with my current build. It will handle anything and everything I throw at it minus gaming because I don't do that much.

dalto
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 16:41
In my experience it isn't photographers who use Macs it's Oregon Trail gamers.
bw!

robertwsimpson
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 16:44
The best use of a mac is in the coffee shop surfing facebook so that all the other beatnicks can be jealous. Other than that, I'd say that macs and windows PCs are on an even keel. This is coming from someone who does photography, videography, and records music from time to time. I don't have any complaints doing any of these "thing that a mac will do better" on a Windows PC. I do have friends who use Macs, but I'm considering ending the friendship.

nathancarter
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 16:57
If you go back 20 or 25 years, Macs had graphical capabilities that PCs commonly did not, so they were the go-to machines for imaging at the amateur and prosumer levels (though I don't think the term prosumer existed back then). I distinctly remember seeing the stuff that my godfather would do on his old Macintosh II, and thinking that there was no way a PC could manage that sort of thing. The first video I ever saw on a computer was the '1984' advertisement on my godfather's Mac, and I was absolutely blown away that you could look at MOVING VIDEOS on a COMPUTER SCREEN.

I think that stereotype has stuck since then.

Anyway, I'm in a Mac household because my wife is a pro video editor, and uses Final Cut Pro which is not available for other platforms.

robertwsimpson
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 17:00
I remember when windows 95 came out the copy we got came with a video of a weezer song. I was in awe. I had seen videos on a computer before, but they always looked like they were made with legos.

Joe Ravenstein
1st of June 2011 (Wed), 17:03
Saying most photographers use macs is like saying most Ford auto owners use Shell gasoline. Generalizations have no basis in fact.

robertwsimpson
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 07:44
Saying most photographers use macs is like saying most Ford auto owners use Shell gasoline. Generalizations have no basis in fact.

unless they do...

René Damkot
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 08:51
Why Do Most Photographers Use Macs?

Three options:

They don't,
Legacy,
They don't know how to maintain a computer, and OSX is a bit easier in that regard.


For the most photographers I work for, it's definitely #3.
For me personally, it's #2.
In general, it's very probably #1.

:lol:

Kento
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 09:12
Mac's were better for editing work a few decades ago, but now PC's are just as capable if not more. A lot of people are still clinging to the past. Apple computers retain their value better than PC's, that has been the only legitimate reason to ever consider buying one in my eyes..

benesotor
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 11:15
The only reason anybody would buy a Mac over a PC for photography is because they can.

There seems to be a strange misconception that 'Macs are vastly superior for the creative industries', but here's the insiders tip... Adobe on a Mac is identical to Adobe on a PC ;)
Honestly I don't know why people say that.... and a lot of people say it, I think it's an image issue. If a photographer is more worried about what logo is on the front of their laptop than what their pictures look like, I wouldn't call them much of a photographer!

Hen3Ry
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 12:05
The only reason anybody would buy a Mac over a PC for photography is because they can.

There seems to be a strange misconception that 'Macs are vastly superior for the creative industries', but here's the insiders tip... Adobe on a Mac is identical to Adobe on a PC ;)
Honestly I don't know why people say that....

People say it because 25 years ago it was true. Full stop.

In the late 80s the Macintosh was competing with Windows 3.1, then WIndows 95, then Windows 98 then Windows 98SE then WIndows whatever....up to the point of when Microsoft actually released a real operating system, Windows 2000. Prior to W2K, all Windows consumer OS' were DOS with a GUI added on top. Even then, there were no real applications aside from Visicalc and a couple of other early releases of now common software. Excel started around then and came out as a DOS application that only worked because it provided its own run-time windows.

If you go back and take a look at Windows development from the beginning, you will almost certainly find that Windows and all its applications lag other vendors in getting useful products to the market - products that somehow emulated products already on the market.

Microsoft has never been a technological market leader.

Photoshop was created, not as a product to process photographs, but to be used by people creating marketing materials, brochures, magazines and so forth that had photographs in them. And at that time, there was no Adobe on a PC.

atlrus
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 12:25
In the professional world I think that it is true.

Mac is only popular in USA, thanks to very skillful marketing and awful competition.

It's a luxury item, plain and simple. And just like any luxury product, the company itself reaps great profits due to insane markup and the consumer is left with just braging rights over the competition.

tkerr
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 12:37
If you go back 20 or 25 years, Macs had graphical capabilities that PCs commonly did not, so they were the go-to machines for imaging at the amateur and prosumer levels (though I don't think the term prosumer existed back then).

I think that stereotype has stuck since then.



I think that has a lot to do with it for hard core faithful Mac users today even though it's no longer true. If it still were the case I doubt Windows/PC would hold the majority of the market share now.

tkerr
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 12:41
Mac is only popular in USA, thanks to very skillful marketing and awful competition.

It's a luxury item, plain and simple. And just like any luxury product, the company itself reaps great profits due to insane markup and the consumer is left with just braging rights over the competition.

Actually the USA is third in Mac Popularity. Mac is more popular in Switzerland.
http://www.blogcdn.com//media/2011/03/macosxmarketsharecountries.jpg

g0ldenb0y55
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 12:46
Mac is only popular in USA, thanks to very skillful marketing and awful competition.

It's a luxury item, plain and simple. And just like any luxury product, the company itself reaps great profits due to insane markup and the consumer is left with just braging rights over the competition.

I agree with you 100%! Their marketing since the release of their first ipod has been like no other.

atlrus
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 12:53
Actually the USA is third in Mac Popularity. Mac is more popular in Switzerland.
http://www.blogcdn.com//media/2011/03/macosxmarketsharecountries.jpg

Hehe, I meant it as actual number of users, not population persentage. And I can bet that the majority of the Swiss and Burgs that use Macs are US expats ;)

gosundevils
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 12:54
form factor and the attention to detail in the hardware and the easiness to run dual OS's on it. got my windows partition for bootcamp or virtual machine. to say nothing of how simple OSX is. it's wonderful.

plus, it's nice to keep consistency between my macbook pro, iphone, and ipad.

Hen3Ry
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 13:03
I agree with you 100%! Their marketing since the release of their first ipod has been like no other.

You can call it a luxury item, but it's really a closed proprietary system. In Windows-land you buy a device (any device) from any vendor, and then you deal with the vendor's drivers. This usually works, and for the technically competent, almost always works.

In Apple-land you are almost forced to buy from Apple or from a small group of vendors who all work very closely with Apple to build hardware that complies specifically with Apple's hardware and software requirements, and Apple builds the vendor's drivers into the system, or makes them available in a software upgrade. That's the origin of the "they always work" rubric. You pay more, and generally you get higher grade components, that in fact, do "just work," because they were originally designed to work together. The benefit to Apple (and to the consumer) is that when someone calls Applecare, Apple's customer services is dealing with a known set of hardware and software, whereas Microsoft's CS is dealing with a possibly unique aggregation of hardware and software, which I think you'll agree will influence their ability to actually provide support. This is one reason why Apple has such high marks for customer support. It's also interesting to note that in Consumer's Guide reviews, Apple computers are number one in every category they make a machine in.

But I certainly agree with you on Apple's marketing.

benesotor
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 13:22
People say it because 25 years ago it was true. Full stop.

In the late 80s the Macintosh was competing with Windows 3.1, then WIndows 95, then Windows 98 then Windows 98SE then WIndows whatever....up to the point of when Microsoft actually released a real operating system, Windows 2000. Prior to W2K, all Windows consumer OS' were DOS with a GUI added on top. Even then, there were no real applications aside from Visicalc and a couple of other early releases of now common software. Excel started around then and came out as a DOS application that only worked because it provided its own run-time windows.

If you go back and take a look at Windows development from the beginning, you will almost certainly find that Windows and all its applications lag other vendors in getting useful products to the market - products that somehow emulated products already on the market.

Microsoft has never been a technological market leader.

Photoshop was created, not as a product to process photographs, but to be used by people creating marketing materials, brochures, magazines and so forth that had photographs in them. And at that time, there was no Adobe on a PC.

I would agree you could argue the same point maybe 10 or more years ago... but that doesn't give any reason to argue it now. You wouldn't argue that floppy is your go-to removable hardware just because it was 15 years ago.

Give a designer Photoshop CS5 on a Windows 7 machine, or a OSx machine... and you won't find one system is far more productive than the other. I use OSX all the time for graphic work, and It's no easier, no simpler and no faster than when I do it on a W7 machine. So saying designers should use Mac's is in my opinion... a myth.

Hen3Ry
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 13:38
I would agree you could argue the same point maybe 10 or more years ago... but that doesn't give any reason to argue it now. You wouldn't argue that floppy is your go-to removable hardware just because it was 15 years ago.

Give a designer Photoshop CS5 on a Windows 7 machine, or a OSx machine... and you won't find one system is far more productive than the other. I use OSX all the time for graphic work, and It's no easier, no simpler and no faster than when I do it on a W7 machine. So saying designers should use Mac's is in my opinion... a myth.

I agree. I have a W7 Photoshop system (dual boot with OS X) and I actually find that W7 is a little faster than OS X on the same hardware. Nevertheless, though I have both systems, and have been using both Windows and Mac since the middle of the 80s, I find myself using OS X instead of W7.

But what I was trying to say is that the "myth," if you will, is traditional, and long ago was true. That aura still surrounds the Apple machines, and Apple's marketing keeps it alive.

atlrus
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 13:39
I have to disagree with you strongly on a few points:

You pay more, and generally you get higher grade components, that in fact, do "just work," because they were originally designed to work together.

The "just works" has nothing to do with the quality of hardware. The vast majority of problems for Windows users are software related and not so much Windows software but software that is designed to run on the Win OS, but it was designed very, very poorly.

Also, it's simple as this: If it just works, what do I need Apple Care for?!?
Great, great marketing...

Apple's customer services is dealing with a known set of hardware and software, whereas Microsoft's CS is dealing with a possibly unique aggregation of hardware and software, which I think you'll agree will influence their ability to actually provide support.

See, here is another example of the marketing at work - Apple has convinced people that if their PC doesn't work - it's Windows fault, i.e. you are pinning Apple (software AND hardware) against Microsoft - purely OS, doesn't build computers. They never go against an actual PC manufacturer, ever.
Google and Android is a great example of how you can shift the perspective from the OS developer to the application developer when a problem arrise.

If an application doesn't work on your PC - call the application developer, not Microsoft.

On to the other part of your statement - also not a good excuse. Dell, for example, knows exactly with what kind of hardware and software they are dealing with (they have like what, 10 current PC models?). Just because it runs on Win OS, that doesn't give them the excuse for using an awful customer support, they just prefer to focus the least on the CS.

You can call it a luxury item, but it's really a closed proprietary system

It's a luxury item because you can get the same or better functionallity elsewhere, yet spend just a fraction of the Apple asking price.

Elisha
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 14:45
I have:
1x C2D Macbook
1x Octo Core Mac Pro
1x i5 Quad Core PC
1x Dual Core PC

And Iall I have to say is that there is no advantage using a Mac over a PC. I use LR3 and CS5 on both OSes and they are just as efficient.

The reason Mac may be more popular is because for the first couple of versions of Photoshop, it was only available for Mac.
The PC version came later and was a little buggy.
So essentially Apple had a head start and nothing else.
The old crows who first adopted Photoshop on Mac didn't help the current rumour.

YP5 Toronto
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 15:08
LOL...where did the OP go?

dingdong
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 15:14
I think MAC makes better screens.

benesotor
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 15:17
I think LG makes better screens.

Fixed ;)

Which reminds me... people say 'Macs are better because they build their own software AND hardware', but that also doesn't seem true anymore? Foxconn make their boards, Intel make their processors, ATI make their graphics, LG make their screens, Samsung make their memory, Hitatchi at least used to make their drives. Plus tons of other chips and components are made by a myriad of other Taiwanese companies.

ThomGascoigne
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 15:57
I use macs and PC's and I'm not going to get into a mac's are better then PC's thing cos I know someone in particular will have a sook. Anyway I prefer and am more use to the work flow on mac's to PC.

One thing that you might want to look into is what % of art school's etc use mac's versus PC for photography applications.

PerfectTan
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 16:00
I use macs and PC's and I'm not going to get into a mac's are better then PC's thing cos I know someone in particular will have a sook. Anyway I prefer and am more use to the work flow on mac's to PC.

One thing that you might want to look into is what % of art school's etc use mac's versus PC for photography applications.

A friend of mine attended a PS classes and they were using 3/4+ PCs and 1/4 Macs.
Like her, I preferred PC over Mac because.

Edit: I think MOD should lock down this thread, because this thread start out NOT,but is heading toward one of those Mac vs PC and we know where that is heading.

Accessoire
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 16:16
Im a photographer,
and Im a PC.

Hen3Ry
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 16:20
Fixed ;)

Which reminds me... people say 'Macs are better because they build their own software AND hardware', but that also doesn't seem true anymore? Foxconn make their boards, Intel make their processors, ATI make their graphics, LG make their screens, Samsung make their memory, Hitatchi at least used to make their drives. Plus tons of other chips and components are made by a myriad of other Taiwanese companies.

Despite what you may think, Apple logic components are designed by Apple, and built to Apple's specifications by contract manufacturers. While they do use off the shelf disk drives and video cards and so forth, they are neither randomly chosen or selected because of lowest cost. I'm not aware of any other computer vendors (with the possible exception of HP) that design their own components - Dell and the others generally use commercially available motherboards and other components. I'm not aware that Dell, for example, has any contract component manufacturing facilities or unique components. Try buying an Apple "logic board" at Frys. :)

Elisha
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 16:27
Despite what you may think, Apple logic components are designed by Apple, and built to Apple's specifications by contract manufacturers. While they do use off the shelf disk drives and video cards and so forth, they are neither randomly chosen or selected because of lowest cost. I'm not aware of any other computer vendors (with the possible exception of HP) that design their own components - Dell and the others generally use commercially available motherboards and other components. I'm not aware that Dell, for example, has any contract component manufacturing facilities or unique components. Try buying an Apple "logic board" at Frys. :)


If by Apple's specifications you mean cripple then yes.
The perfect example is the video cards in the Mac Pro's.
The reference designs of the newer models have hdmi and such but the Apple cards of the same version don't have it!

René Damkot
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 16:30
Just a friendly reminder: "Mac vs. PC" threads tend to get locked around here.
So let's stay on topic...

Tony-S
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 21:20
The perfect example is the video cards in the Mac Pro's.
The reference designs of the newer models have hdmi and such but the Apple cards of the same version don't have it!

Just to be clear, the Mac Pros have up to 6 DisplayPort connectors, all of which include and supersede the HDMI specification (and which is pin-compatible) and every one of those 6 DisplayPort connectors can drive 30" displays at their native resolution.

Tony-S
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 21:22
Apple is about one thing and one thing only - making money. They understand that the consumer experience trumps all else, specifications included. This is why they have a market cap that is greater than all other computer companies, including Microsoft, Dell, HP, etc., etc. They make things that people want and that is driven by device integration. They are also the fourth largest computer company in terms of units sold (3rd if you consider ipads as "computers"). So long as they stick to their business plan, they'll continue to increase their market share.

Hen3Ry
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 22:17
Apple is about one thing and one thing only - making money. They understand that the consumer experience trumps all else, specifications included. This is why they have a market cap that is greater than all other computer companies, including Microsoft, Dell, HP, etc., etc. They make things that people want and that is driven by device integration. They are also the fourth largest computer company in terms of units sold (3rd if you consider ipads as "computers"). So long as they stick to their business plan, they'll continue to increase their market share.

Bingo.

Dexinthecity
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 22:21
For portability I will choose a Mac laptop any day, I love my
Macboo pro. For gaming and and intensive tasks I'll use my pc plus I like building computers

tkerr
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 22:30
Apple is about one thing and one thing only - making money. They understand that the consumer experience trumps all else, specifications included. This is why they have a market cap that is greater than all other computer companies, including Microsoft, Dell, HP, etc., etc.

Just to be clear, Dell and HP are just two of many companies who manufacture IBM Compatible Personal Computers and other hardware devices, i.e. Printers, scanners and monitors. Thus the greater availability and lower cost to the consumer to get the same performance.
Microsoft on the other hand develops software for those computers, to include the Windows Operating System.
Microsoft does however make peripheral devices such as keyboards and mice, and of course the Xbox, but not PC's

Hen3Ry
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 22:47
Just to be clear, Dell and HP are just two of many companies who manufacture IBM Compatible Personal Computers and other hardware devices, i.e. Printers, scanners and monitors. Thus the greater availability and lower cost to the consumer to get the same performance.
Microsoft on the other hand develops software for those computers, to include the Windows Operating System.
Microsoft does however make peripheral devices such as keyboards and mice, and of course the Xbox, but not PC's

IBM Compatible? I haven't heard that phrase in years. :) Dropped dropped out of the business of setting standards for PCs years ago. I believe both Dell and HP contract out their manufacturing. At least, they did when I worked for Solectron, a contract manufacturer. One of our biggest customers was Dell. The biggest was HP. What those machines all have in common (and all they have in common) is a Microsoft OS.

Jon Foster
2nd of June 2011 (Thu), 23:09
I don't think most photographers use Macs these days. Windows based desktops have 86% of the market as of 2010. The rest is a mix with Mac OS being the second highest by percentage. But the reported statistics are based on new computer sales from year to year.

We sell far more Windows based computers then anything else. But we NEVER have any Mac's come back. ALL Windows based computers get infected with some kind of virus or malware and we end up working on them too many times. We also have a huge customer base of Linux converts. Most people that try Linux don't go back to any version of Windows. And most never move to a Mac from there because they can reuse the cheap PC architecture for free with Linux.

Edit: We sell a high percentage of Mac's to companies in the graphics industry.

Jon.

pcunite
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 09:40
We sell far more Windows based computers then anything else. But we NEVER have any Mac's come back. ALL Windows based computers get infected with some kind of virus or malware and we end up working on them too many times.


Then please do your part and setup LUA + SRP for them ... I've been running just fine for 7 years. You send your users out the door as full admins and you wonder why they get viruses! lol, please ... Windows is a DSLR, need someone who knows what they're doing.

SRP howto for the clueless
http://www.mechbgon.com/srp/index.html

PerfectTan
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 10:06
Then please do your part and setup LUA + SRP for them ...

SRP howto for the clueless
http://www.mechbgon.com/srp/index.html

I guarantee you 100% that he has no idea what SRP is until now that you posted the link.:cool:

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 10:23
using both, windows is a rats nest of control panels and preferences...the control panels of control panels of control panels have control panels. same goes for preferences. when windows is working its adequate but it likes to go t*ts up every so often. using a pc is about as fun as being on a ship plowing thru 100 foot swells in the middle of a category 5 hurricane.

macs give me virtually zero problems, doesn't do crazy stuff like windows and any glitch is easily findable and fixable in those very rare occurrences. its more like floating on a cloud on a perfect spring day than the ship in a storm. :D

pcunite
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 10:28
I guarantee you 100% that he has no idea what SRP is until now that you posted the link.:cool:

I'm really thinking about making a two minute how-to video. I am amazed at how many people don't realize that Windows, ever since XP, has had SRP (kind of like SELinux for *nix), which is government level security and so easy to maintain. I've set up all my family members machines this way as I got tired of fixing them all the time. What is cool is that all the security warnings in the news don't apply to them! None of them run virus scanning software ... you don't need it!

Kento
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 10:41
Just to be clear, the Mac Pros have up to 6 DisplayPort connectors, all of which include and supersede the HDMI specification (and which is pin-compatible) and every one of those 6 DisplayPort connectors can drive 30" displays at their native resolution.

Pics or it didn't happen!

tkerr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 10:43
using both, windows is a rats nest of control panels and preferences...the control panels of control panels of control panels have control panels. same goes for preferences. when windows is working its adequate but it likes to go t*ts up every so often. using a pc is about as fun as being on a ship plowing thru 100 foot swells in the middle of a category 5 hurricane.

macs give me virtually zero problems, doesn't do crazy stuff like windows and any glitch is easily findable and fixable in those very rare occurrences. its more like floating on a cloud on a perfect spring day than the ship in a storm. :D

What version of Windows are you using?
Navigating control and preference panels are not that difficult. There are set up with easy to read tabs and links, or a directory tree like structure. Quite similar to operating a simple web browser. If a person can read and control a mouse and click its buttons, then they should be able to navigate around the Windows operating system with ease.

Most people who have problems with Windows bring it onto themselves. If only everyone would take the time and learn it properly, set up the user accounts properly as described above, and don't download and install all kinds of unnecessary trash. Run scheduled preventative maintenance and scans to keep the system and HD clean, then they won't have problems. However, if by chance you do have a problem it is easy to recover on your own.

PerfectTan
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 10:46
I'm really thinking about making a two minute how-to video. I am amazed at how many people --need it!

I think you should. Some people are more visual when learning things, and some people are good with instructions. It would be great if you could post it.:lol:

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 11:03
the obvious point is being overlooked. why do i need to have to cater to the windows os instead of the reverse.

windows has to be 'dealt' with. osx does not.

users shouldn't have to be subjected to a user experience by an os that is so whacked that unless you jump through hoops to keep it stable, its just going to mess itself up. :D

one hears this all the time...."well, as long as you make sure you do this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this with windows you should be fine."

most people aren't interested in being os mechanics, they just want to go!


and not to stray off topic...i'm a photog and i use macs for it. :)


What version of Windows are you using?
Navigating control and preference panels are not that difficult. There are set up with easy to read tabs and links, or a directory tree like structure. Quite similar to operating a simple web browser. If a person can read and control a mouse and click its buttons, then they should be able to navigate around the Windows operating system with ease.

Most people who have problems with Windows bring it onto themselves. If only everyone would take the time and learn it properly, set up the user accounts properly as described above, and don't download and install all kinds of unnecessary trash. Run scheduled preventative maintenance and scans to keep the system and HD clean, then they won't have problems. However, if by chance you do have a problem it is easy to recover on your own.

Kento
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 11:15
I like the challenge of using Windows, I don't need an idiot-proof OS.

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 11:18
I like the challenge of using Windows, I don't need an idiot-proof OS.


lol. oh jeez, way to rationalize.

i like the challenge of bashing my head in with a hammer then performing brain surgery on myself. :D

gjl711
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 11:23
the obvious point is being overlooked. why do i need to have to cater to the windows os instead of the reverse.

windows has to be 'dealt' with. osx does not.

users shouldn't have to be subjected to a user experience by an os that is so whacked that unless you jump through hoops to keep it stable, its just going to mess itself up. :DHmm.. one could almost say the same thing about photography. Why do i need to cater to the camera instead of the reverse.

SLRs have to be "dealt" with. Point and shoots does not.

users shouldn't have to be subjected to a user experience by a camera that is so whacked that unless you understand all the intricacies, its just going to mess up your pictures.

But isn't there room for both? Does one have to be better than the other? If one chooses to learn about their technology and wants the flexibility to do anything they can dream of, including shooting yourself in the foot, shouldn't they? And those that want a simple, trouble free package should be able to have what they want as well.

tkerr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 11:24
the obvious point is being overlooked. why do i need to have to cater to the windows os instead of the reverse.

windows has to be 'dealt' with. osx does not.

users shouldn't have to be subjected to a user experience by an os that is so whacked that unless you jump through hoops to keep it stable, its just going to mess itself up. :D

You must be using a older version of windows, and/or just never took the time to learn it through and through. Even a Mac user should know his way around and be able to navigate the operating system.
What do you do if you have any kind of system glitches or failure?

Now I think I am understanding why Mac users prefer the Mac OS vs Windows. The way you explain it is that Mac users don't want to have to do anything but push a button to turn the power on, and have everything right there in front of them to point and click away with a mouse pointer. I understand now. :)
Believe it or not, Windows isn't that much different.

I don't find that I have to jump through any hoops to do anything. All I have to do is press the button to power up, then point and click my way around with my mouse pointer just like a Mac user does. I actually find it quite simple, almost too simple, and that's why people run into difficulties when they encounter a simple little problem. Because they don't know their operating system and didn't take the time to learn the easiest of tasks.
IMHO If people can't or won't take the time to learn how to navigate their way around a computer system they have no business being on it in the first place.

breal101
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 11:37
Every professional photographer and graphic artist I know, and I know quite a few, use Mac. When I first started with PS in the mid 90's I needed help. The best place to get it was from my graphic artist friends. That's why I chose Mac, I'm glad I did and would never consider changing to save a buck or two.

tkerr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 12:12
Every professional photographer and graphic artist I know, and I know quite a few, use Mac. When I first started with PS in the mid 90's I needed help. The best place to get it was from my graphic artist friends. That's why I chose Mac, I'm glad I did and would never consider changing to save a buck or two.

Back in the 90's their may have been an advantage to using a Mac with Photoshop, but that is no longer true. If I am not mistaken, currently there are some advantage to use Windows instead with Photoshop now.

tkbslc
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 12:19
Back in the early days, Macs used a different kind of architecture that was actually much better for graphical work. I had Photoshop 3.0 on a 100mhz mac and it would apply filters at about 3x the speed of my (uber expensive :))200mhz pentium. But I am talking mid-90s, here. Since about 2000, and especially since Mac switched to Intel, there is no advantage to Mac for graphics work. I think a lot of is it legacy bias and expectation among long time graphics people.

Apple does also have some excellent products like Final Cut and Aperture that do draw some to the computer line.

rick_reno
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 12:22
I believe the general perception is that creative people tend to use Macs more than Windows-based computers. I use Mac simply because I got fed up with all the bull**** that comes along with Windows and I got hooked by Apple when I got my first iPod. Everything just seems to work, and far better than on my Windows machine. Notice that I do still in fact use Windows, just built a new machine in February in fact. Windows 7 is a good improvement for Microsoft, but everytime I use my Mac, I appreciate Mac all the more. Some say it's personal preference, others say one is better than the other. I'm inclined to think it's a bit of both.

+1.

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 12:35
ok, without getting into any further big to do, all i'm saying is the designing of totally transparent user interfaces is the holy grail.

but if one is of the mindset to be a tinkerin' and a fussin' with their os, then god bless ya. most don't. :)

breal101
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 12:42
ok, without getting into any further big to do, all i'm saying is the designing of totally transparent user interfaces is the holy grail.

but if one is of the mindset to be a tinkerin' and a fussin' with their os, then god bless ya. most don't. :)

Agreed! I have a windoze machine that nags me to death every time I start it up, hell, if I wanted to be nagged I would have gotten married. :lol:

tkbslc
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 12:48
I manage about 100 Windows servers, in addition to several Windows desktops and honestly "they just work". Don't know what you guys are doing to your PCs, but I install the OS, VirusScan and my applications and then these systems just keep running. I do not do anything special other than make sure I have good hardware to run it on.

Macs are frustrating as hell for me to use, so anyone saying they are "just so easy, and they just work" are merely stating their opinion. If you spent $1000+ on a PC and had it set up by someone competent, it would "just work" too.

Kento
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 12:57
It's pretty obvious whats going on here..

The people that predominantly use Mac's or PC's like them and will stick up for them because they are use to the interface and it makes them feel comfortable to use something they are accustomed too. Mr Farty pants (Gtr) up there is nagging about Windows being difficult to use or whatever because he is use to using a Mac. Believe it or not, I say the same thing about Mac's when I am forced to use them, it takes me ages to do simple tasks to the point where I look like a total computer Novice.. it's freaking annoying for me that it is so different from my normal Windows machine that I don't ever want to bother with them.

Fact of the matter is, in this day and age for the normal consumer that won't be running 6 30'' monitors all at the same time, a PC and a Mac are essentially the same piece of equipment.

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:01
Macs are frustrating as hell for me to use


you may be so geeked out on windows that you can't see the forest for the trees. you're flummoxed by the sheer simplicity of the mac os user experience. :D

while anecdotal, you'll find most people going from pc to mac smacking themselves for not having done so sooner rather than the reverse

tkerr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:03
I manage about 100 Windows servers, in addition to several Windows desktops and honestly "they just work". Don't know what you guys are doing to your PCs, but I install the OS, VirusScan and my applications and then these systems just keep running. I do not do anything special other than make sure I have good hardware to run it on.

Macs are frustrating as hell for me to use, so anyone saying they are "just so easy, and they just work" are merely stating their opinion. If you spent $1000+ on a PC and had it set up by someone competent, it would "just work" too.

I guess we're just fortunate. My PC doesn't nag at me either, nor do I have any problems with it. I start it up and I am free to do my work without hassle.

My sister is a dedicated Mac user. That's because that's what she learned on in graphics art school back in the 80's early 90s when PS was just getting started and was only supported by Mac.
Not long ago she crashed her HD and had to pay hundreds of dollars to have someone else recover her pictures and she still didn't get them all back.

tkadrum
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:09
I guess we're just fortunate. My PC doesn't nag at me either, nor do I have any problems with it. I start it up and I am free to do my work without hassle.


+1 ditto

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:10
Not long ago she crashed her HD and had to pay hundreds of dollars to have someone else recover her pictures and she still didn't get them all back.

a failed hd. oh well, that tears it. my bentley got a flat tire the other day. bentley's suck. :D

tkbslc
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:12
while anecdotal, you'll find most people going from pc to mac smacking themselves for not having done so sooner rather than the reverse

Yay, 50-100% markup for shiny case with the same hardware and apps! Why didn't I switch sooner!? :p

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:17
Yay, 50-100% markup for shiny case with the same hardware and apps! Why didn't I switch sooner!? :p


do pc's come with a full suite of high quality apps like macs for business, photography, video and music recording? i don't know....my pc came with just a bunch of useless and worthless bloatware junk. :D

breal101
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:28
do pc's come with a full suite of high quality apps like macs for business, photography, video and music recording? i don't know....my pc came with just a bunch of useless and worthless bloatware junk. :D

Yeah, mine did too. The best money, and the last I might add was to buy a new OS without all that crap.

I really don't have that many problems with my PC, the nagging I'm talking about is the pop ups that say "you must restart because important security updates have been installed". Are people saying they don't get those? I can't remember the last time I restarted my Macs, and it was my choice to do it, not something I was ordered to do.

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:37
Yeah, mine did too. The best money, and the last I might add was to buy a new OS without all that crap.

I really don't have that many problems with my PC, the nagging I'm talking about is the pop ups that say "you must restart because important security updates have been installed". Are people saying they don't get those? I can't remember the last time I restarted my Macs, and it was my choice to do it, not something I was ordered to do.


yeah, when my pc doesn't decide to go nuts for some inexplicable reason every 5 or 6 weeks...then i have to waste time performing unfathomable voodoo on it, get a bunch of 'windows couldn't complete blah blah blah such and such task', it actually does what i want it to do.

its just i never get this kind of nonsense on macs

tkerr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:42
Yeah, mine did too. The best money, and the last I might add was to buy a new OS without all that crap.

I really don't have that many problems with my PC, the nagging I'm talking about is the pop ups that say "you must restart because important security updates have been installed". Are people saying they don't get those? I can't remember the last time I restarted my Macs, and it was my choice to do it, not something I was ordered to do.

Just another fine example of not knowing your OS and how to set it up to your benefit.
You can set it up so that you can check on your own and decide which updates you want installed. That way it doesn't interupt you while doing anything. You don't need to have it automatically install every little update that comes along. Some machines might need them but not all. If you're not having problems then don't install them.
Or you can set it up to check and install updates automatically at a certain time and only to do it when the machine has been idle.
I've got mine configured to perform all maintenance on certain nights at a specified time when I won't be on the computer.

tkadrum
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:44
yeah, when my pc doesn't decide to go nuts for some inexplicable reason every 5 or 6 weeks...then i have to waste time performing unfathomable voodoo on it, get a bunch of 'windows couldn't complete blah blah blah such and such task', it actually does what i want it to do.

its just i never get this kind of nonsense on macs

That's fine. If you want a P&S(mac) then be it. If we want DSLR(PC) then be it. You are happy, we are happy. All I am saying.

tkbslc
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:46
do pc's come with a full suite of high quality apps like macs for business, photography, video and music recording? i don't know....my pc came with just a bunch of useless and worthless bloatware junk. :D

You got a point on the bloatware, but that's not windows, that's the PC makers who get paid to put crap in there. Probably the worst thing to happen to the PC industry. A clean fresh windows install is extremely fast and stable. A bloated image from HP or Lenovo is painful.

gjl711
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:46
do pc's come with a full suite of high quality apps like macs for business, photography, video and music recording? i don't know....my pc came with just a bunch of useless and worthless bloatware junk. :D

Yeah, mine did too. The best money, and the last I might add was to buy a new OS without all that crap.
[/quote]I think you guys are mixing up a computer manufacturer and a OS. Unlike Mac, anybody, and I mean anybody can build a pc and toss windows on it. Because of this, there are literally hundreds of PC manufacturers from the big ones, to Billy-Joe-Bob's house of PCs. Windows has no applications, well few applications, built in. It is an operating system. It is up to the manufacturer to load up whatever they please and up to the consumer to know if they need the stuff or not.

So all that bloatware is what you signed up for when you choose that specific manufacturer. If it really bugs you, choose another that does not include that software.

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:47
That's fine. If you want a P&S(mac) then be it. If we want DSLR(PC) then be it. You are happy, we are happy. All I am saying.


dude, no offense, i've been a pro commercial photographer for 30 years, so please stop pulling the whole mac 'p&s' or 'computer for idiots' nonsense.
its lame and pathetic. :D

tkadrum
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:51
dude, no offense, i've been a pro commercial photographer for 30 years, so please stop pulling the whole mac 'p&s' or 'computer for idiots' nonsense.
its lame and pathetic. :D
duh, we are talking a computer vs mac. I am aware that you are not using a p&s.
I am saying...I see mac as (p&s), and pc (as a dslr). I like being a geek and the challenge. I am happy with pc and you are happy with mac.

tkerr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:53
So all that bloatware is what you signed up for when you choose that specific manufacturer. If it really bugs you, choose another that does not include that software.
Or just Uninstall what you don't want.

breal101
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:56
Just another fine example of not knowing your OS and how to set it up to your benefit.
You can set it up so that you can check on your own and decide which updates you want installed. That way it doesn't interupt you while doing anything. You don't need to have it automatically install every little update that comes along. Some machines might need them but not all. If you're not having problems then don't install them.
Or you can set it up to check and install updates automatically at a certain time and only to do it when the machine has been idle.
I've got mine configured to perform all maintenance on certain nights at a specified time when I won't be on the computer.

I'm the first to admit that I'm no computer genius, the point is on a Mac you don't need to do any of that stuff. The only reason I have it online is to update the security, I tried running it offline and got nagged that it wasn't on the net. When I put it back it took hours of downloading and installing to get it secure again.

I'm a photography professional, not a computer pro. I don't WANT to have to learn all that garbage. After 30 years in the business there's still plenty to learn about photography, I would rather devote my time to that. ;)

Kento
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 13:59
Like I said, Mac's are idiot-proof, i'll give them that.

breal101
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 14:02
Like I said, Mac's are idiot-proof, i'll give them that.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

GtrPlyr
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 14:03
duh, we are talking a computer vs mac. I am aware that you are not using a p&s.
I am saying...I see mac as (p&s), and pc (as a dslr). I like being a geek and the challenge. I am happy with pc and you are happy with mac.

sure, if that's your thing. you can get all geeky with the mac os as well if you want. it just doesn't present that side to the general user. it doesn't get in your way or present you with problems to impede the user experience, that's all. :)

Kento
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 14:06
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Just busting your chops ;)

tkadrum
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 14:06
Like I said, Mac's are idiot-proof, i'll give them that.

bw! You made me smile.

René Damkot
4th of June 2011 (Sat), 14:07
Seems I was a bit unclear :rolleyes:
Just a friendly reminder: "Mac vs. PC" threads tend to get locked around here.
So let's stay on topic...

/thread.