10D focus issue demystified

[Pekka]

Hi,

As I see posts with varying degrees of knowledge, guesswork and plain wrong facts about this matter (not to mention very different approaches to discuss and analyze this matter) I'd like you to read and understand some FACTS about 10D focus issue. I have many of these from Canon, and based on my own 10D experience.

(ADDENDUM 9.7.2003)
FACT: "The vertical component of the center focusing point for the 10D is equal in coverage to that of the D30 and D60, whereas the horizontal component is approximately 20% longer. In all cases, the actual area that can potentially be evaluated by the AF system is larger than indicated by the AF frame engraved on the focusing screen." From http://robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Board=UBB8&Number=148832#Post149286

**Previous Test chart no longer available. Here is a good one as of August 2009;
http://www.hkdotnet.com/FrancisPhotographyChannel/AF_Test/AF_test_chart-a4-w.bmp

and

"The verbal way of describing the length of the 10D's 5 vertical AF sensor arrays is that they are approximately 2.25 times longer than the vertical dimension of the frames that are engraved on the focusing screen. The 3 horizontal arrays are the same length as the 5 vertical arrays. All sensor arrays are slightly narrower than the area indicated by the engraved frames."
from http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB8&Number=149393

Both texts and AF array image by Mr. Chuck Westfall (Director/Technical Information Dept.)
(ADDENDUM 9.7.2003)

FACT:
10D camera body has no focus issue.

FACT:
Some 10D's camera bodys have problems in focusing or getting sharp photos.

FACT:
To make sure there is no user error in question this problem must be verified with testing, and the test should be done (according to Canon Japan):

- from 2.5m
- with a 50mm lens
- in at least 12EV light (ISO 100, 5.6 1/125 equiv.)
- on sturdy tripod (mirror lock and external/timed release)
- "One shot" focus mode
- manual focus point (center).
- Largest aperture of the lens. This means use smallest f-number you can get.

The testing target can be built from a paper with some scale, and a cardboard focus point with white rectangle of black background. Canon test setup is something like this:

http://photography-on-the.net/10D/test.gif

(The drawing is not in scale, sorry). The focus rectangle should be tack sharp and on the scale you can see how depth-of-field distributes. If rectangle is out of focus the scale tells you how much it is out and into what direction.

Image of this test (from Canon's Finnish repair center), with 200mm lens:

http://photography-on-the.net/10D/focus.jpg

Other usable test is at http://www.hkdotcom.net/Francis%20Photography%20channel/AF_Test/index.htm - you can use that chart in above Canon type testing, but you don't want to focus to the chart itself as told on that page. It is important that what you focus to is a flat plane facing to the camera - any 3D information there makes test results unreliable.

Make sure that viewfinder focus rectangle sees only one possible focus point. Always use One Shot focus mode with center point only for testing. Alighn the test so that the plane of focus is not slanted - if you think you can't do the test ask someone more experienced to do it for you.

FACT:
Do not to fully trust you own tests - they just indicate something. If you get repeatedly off focus results, take the camera to repair and let them test it again there and make their own concusions. In the end Canon is the only authority that can confirm any focus errors in your camera body.

FACT:
Of those problematic 10D's some can be fixed by calibrating, some must be replaced.

FACT:
No one knows how many cameras has this problem. Perhaps only few. Perhaps more. Fact is that no one knows.

FACT:
This problem is not related to body serial numbers.

FACT:
There is no "body thickness issue" - it was a false alarm, it was tracked to be an error in Canon 10D repair manual.

FACT:
There is really no reason to know in technical terms what causes this problem. Canon repair fixes or replaces those bodies, that should be enough.

FACT:
Canon has been really polite and helpful on getting those bad seeds replaced or fixed. So please don't overreact and pour you anger onto them, even if Canon Japan has not made no official comments on this problem.

FACT:
Focus error can be "front" focus or "back" focus. Front means camera focuses closer to you, back means the camera focuses further away from intended focus point.

FACT:
Slight focus shifting (repeated tries give slightly different focus lock) is normal to autofocus systems. Focus shifting may be increased by dust and dirt inside camera body parts, dust or dirt on lens back, dust or dirt on filters/lens.

FACT:
Focusing can get out of calibration if you drop your camera or handle it rough.

FACT:
Resetting camera does not fix focusing.

FACT:
10D is the "most recommended" digital SLR I know, I really really like it.

FACT:
I may have forgotten some facts.

[lziering]

Bob Atkins, of Photo.net fame, has posted an interesting 10D focus test and test target for nervous 10D owners.

[Pekka]

lziering wrote:
Bob Atkins, of Photo.net fame, has posted an interesting 10D focus test and test target for nervous 10D owners.

http://www.photo.net/learn/focustest/

It is about the same as described in http://www.hkdotcom.net/Francis%20Photography%20channel/AF_Test/index.htm

[lziering]

Pekka wrote:
lziering wrote:
Bob Atkins, of Photo.net fame, has posted an interesting 10D focus test and test target for nervous 10D owners.

http://www.photo.net/learn/focustest/

It is about the same as described in http://www.hkdotcom.net/Francis%20Photography%20channel/AF_Test/index.htm



I just tested my 10D the test using a Canon 50mm f/1.4 wide open. It failed!!!


I took delivery of my camera the first week they shipped in the US, March 15, 2002. (SN 0220105430). Boy, am I surprised!

I've repeated the test using different target types and I get similar results. I was also surprised to find that I get the same results when I repeat the test using manual focus and ignore the assist light in the viewfinder.. Anybody care to explain?

I'd show the test but posting on this site never seems to work for me.

[AndyDe]

Just tried the test on my 10D with 50mm 1.8 at f1.8 & the dof extends 1cm either side of the focus point so all seems ok. ( Body sn. 02301xxxxx)

[Longwatcher]

Well I had to go and try it for myself.
Shot an angled ruler with all five of my lenses.

The 10D was spot on with all but my 75-300 IS, which very slightly front focused, by about 0.25cm at 2 meters (consistently over 3 shots each at 75 and 300).

On the other hand, I had to go and try my D60 as well.

Darn thing back focuses about an 1cm at 2 meters range with my 50/1.4 and 28-135 (I saw enough with just these two lenses.

In other trivia: in order of sharpness -
- 50/1.4L
- 100-400L IS (IS off)
- 75-300 IS (very slightly better without IS then with).
- 16-35L
- 28-135 IS

Lastly, having satisfied my curiosity - I LOVE MY 10D.
Of course I like my D60 also. Close enough for me.

[emamb]

Hi
Have done the tests with a canon 50mm lens and the results and other photos are great. What i still cannot understand though, is why i still cannot get sharp focusing with a 23-108mm mk 11 lens which works perfect with an eos 3. I don't want to use a 50mm prime all the time.
emamb

[dcchan2]

Pekka wrote:
I may have forgotten some facts.


One question I have is:

Assuming the camera body needs to be calibrated, is it necessary to calibrate it using each of the lenses I have in my possession?

[lziering]

longwatcher wrote:
Well I had to go and try it for myself.
Shot an angled ruler with all five of my lenses.

The 10D was spot on with all but my 75-300 IS, which very slightly front focused, by about 0.25cm at 2 meters (consistently over 3 shots each at 75 and 300).

On the other hand, I had to go and try my D60 as well.

Darn thing back focuses about an 1cm at 2 meters range with my 50/1.4 and 28-135 (I saw enough with just these two lenses.

In other trivia: in order of sharpness -
- 50/1.4L
- 100-400L IS (IS off)
- 75-300 IS (very slightly better without IS then with).
- 16-35L
- 28-135 IS

Lastly, having satisfied my curiosity - I LOVE MY 10D.
Of course I like my D60 also. Close enough for me.


Just a small point, but I don't think Canon makes a 50mm f/1.4 "L" lens. Either its a f/1.2 or its not an "L".

[Roger_Cavanagh]

dcchan2 wrote:
Pekka wrote:
I may have forgotten some facts.


One question I have is:

Assuming the camera body needs to be calibrated, is it necessary to calibrate it using each of the lenses I have in my possession?


The Chasseur d'Images that disclosed that Canon France has reocgnised this as a problem said that, if you get a problem with all lenses then the recommendation was only send the camera.

OTOH, if you send the camera and one or more lenses and have another camera, the question is "will the lens adjustment impact the other camera?".

The Canon Germany test (described here http://www.pixelpixel.org/helpinfo/23_focuscheck.htm) does not require as much effort as FF/BF testing. It just determines whether you can manually focus more accurately than AF. I'f run all your lenses though this and decide whether you should send them with the camera. Of course, they have to be Canon lenses.

Regards,

[tony723]

Pekka wrote:
Hi,

As I see posts with varying degrees of knowledge, guesswork and plain wrong facts about this matter (not to mention very different approaches to discuss and analyze this matter) I'd like you to read and understand some FACTS about 10D focus issue. I have many of these from Canon, and based on my own 10D experience.

FACT:
No one knows how many cameras has this problem. Perhaps only few. Perhaps more. Fact is that no one knows.

Hi Pekka,

So it is a quality control issue. In fact this time Canon may have a lesson learnt that even a few faulty cameras (no one knows) may create lots of troubles and concerns from the customers around the world. The same issue did not happen for D30 and D60.

[AndyDe]

What I don't understand is that if the subject is in focus when viewed on the focucing screen in the viewfinder yet is 1cm back focused on the sensor this would imply a 1cm difference in the lens to screen & lens o sensor distance....surely this is impossible bearing in mind the physical size of the camera.

[Longwatcher]

lziering wrote:

Just a small point, but I don't think Canon makes a 50mm f/1.4 "L" lens. Either its a f/1.2 or its not an "L".

Oops!

Got carried away. Image quality wise, I keep thinking of it as a "L" series, but you are correct.

[fredlord]

I had problems manually focusing when wearing my glasses rather than contact lenses. This directed my attention to the diopter adjustment on the eyepiece. I found, through experimentation, that I needed to set the diopter to something other than “0” for both eyeglasses and contacts. This had a definite influence on proper focus when I was doing it manually. If the diopter adjustment was not properly set for me I could not accurately focus manually. The diopter setting definitely changes the focus point for me. Now that it's set, I've had much better luck using the 100-400mm L IS lens with the 1.4x II TC which does not autofocus on my D60.

It may be obvious to all of you but the point is that if you are comparing the autofocus with your manual focusing, you should make sure you are manually focusing correctly.

[martcol]

fredlord wrote:
make sure you are manually focusing correctly.

I got really paranoid about my 10D and autofocus! I did a test over weekend taking pictures on a tripod, of a text on white page of paper with a strong pattern and a line drawn in centre. Manual focus then auto from different angles with lens wide open - Canon 50mm 1.8. I took it in turns with my 14 yr old daughter to manual focus (younger eyes, much younger!) 8)

If anything gave inconsistent results it was my manual focussing! I think I need callobrating! :D

Martin

[Peter Hoskins]

Well, what can I say. Firstly I should say that I am not Canon bashing, I have been a keen photographer for 40 years and have been using Canon equipment for 20 of those.

I bought the 10D 3 weeks ago. I was instantly aware that after auto focus confirmation, with only the centre point selected, the image in the viewfinder could be brought into sharper focus by turning the manual focus ring slightly clockwise. I had never experienced this with my EOS 5, RT, 1n or D60.

Ignoring this, I spent a few days taking general shots and it became apparent that where I had selected a wide aperture to isolate a subject (I always use aperture priority mode) the results were not focused on the point I had chosen, all lenses exhibiting front focus. For instance auto focusing on the eyes would actually produce a sharp nose. At apertures smaller than f4 the discrepancy could not be seen as it was taken up by the increased depth of field.

I did tripod mounted tests using test targets in the manner suggested on several of these forums and they confirmed that all my Canon lenses were front focusing. At one point I managed to convince myself that I didn't have a problem but realised that this was because I had started to focus slightly behind the desired point in an attempt to convince myself that I had no problem.

I then decided that I was expecting too much from autofocus and what did it matter, because where I chose to use a large aperture I could focus manually. I'm used to this with my Hasselblad 500CM, Mamiya 645 and Leica 11F rangefinder. The viewfinder in the 10D is not especially clear (dioptre adjustment made) and certainly not as clear as the RT or 1n, but nonetheless it is possible to see the relatively sharp point as you focus through it.

Unfortunately, what I saw is not what I got. Turning the focusing ring slightly clockwise and bringing the image into sharper focus in the viewfinder actually produced worse results. By experimenting with incremental manual focusing I found sharp focus by turning the focusing ring anti-clockwise, putting the image out of focus in the viewfinder but producing a sharp image at the sensor plane.

Accepting the limitations of autofocus is one thing but being unable to focus manually (I admit I'm talking wide open) is another. You have to be able to rely on one or the other. So I called it a day and phoned Cameraworld and they exchanged the body without question. My original had an 03 serial number and the replacement an 04 serial number.

The result? The new body has the same front focus problem at wide apertures and the viewfinder has an obvious misalignment of the optical system rendering the top of the screen in different focus from the bottom.

I still love this camera and intend to persevere. I phoned Canon today and they were very helpful. I'm, dropping the camera off at their Elstree service centre and will see what happens.

[brault]

Have you thought of shipping yourself to the Canon service center? :)

Frank B

martcol wrote:
fredlord wrote:
make sure you are manually focusing correctly.

I got really paranoid about my 10D and autofocus! I did a test over weekend taking pictures on a tripod, of a text on white page of paper with a strong pattern and a line drawn in centre. Manual focus then auto from different angles with lens wide open - Canon 50mm 1.8. I took it in turns with my 14 yr old daughter to manual focus (younger eyes, much younger!) 8)

If anything gave inconsistent results it was my manual focussing! I think I need callobrating! :D

Martin

[pigasus]

Peter Hoskins wrote:
I still love this camera and intend to persevere. I phoned Canon today and they were very helpful. I'm, dropping the camera off at their Elstree service centre and will see what happens.


Peter, please keep us informed of progress. I'm still on the fence about the 10D and good reports about Elstree's success at eliminating the problem would be very settling.

Thanks,

[martcol]

pigasus wrote:
Peter, please keep us informed of progress...
Thanks,


Likewise Peter; very interested to hear how you get on and how Canon perform!

Good Luck

Martin

[Peter Hoskins]

Just got back from dropping off the 10D at the Elstree service centre and I must say I'm impressed. They gave me almost an hour of their time, did some on the spot checks and couldn't have been more helpful.

They told me that adjusting the front focus was no problem.
More of a problem was the viewfinder because no-one could see a problem. This seems to be because I use it at the end of its +1.5 dioptre range and this is where the problem manifests itself.

So, I've left it there for the focus alignment and in spite of the fact that they couldn't see the problem they are going to change the focusing screen and lens element in the viewfinder.

What more could I ask for!

[Pekka]

bumping this up.

[DVWarrior]

Pekka...Don't hit out at Canon...

Fact... Spend £1400 the most many of you will ever spend on a camera and get bum soft focus results !!!

Fact...Who make this 10D camera...oops could it be Canon...are they dropping QA to rush out back orders ?

Fact...If a 35mm zoom lens works on an EOS-3 without any adjustments it should then work on a 10D...!!!

Don't patronise us Pekka nor tell us how to vent our anger...the D60 was crap because of focusing errors and the 10D has not been sorted beyond the D60.
A lot of these chaps have put their hobbies and relationships on the line to get the 10D its not a cheap option...If Canon can't guarentee the 10D being able to focus with at least Canon lenses then it should be recalled till the problem is solved...instead they cock up the D60 leave a lot of disattified customers behind then out of the blue appears the 10D with the exact...same ...focus problem as the D60...

FACT...There is no point using any SLR digital camera if you canot trust the picture it takes...SAD BUT TRUE.

[martcol]

DVWarrior wrote:
...then out of the blue appears the 10D with the exact...same ...focus problem as the D60...

FACT...There is no point using any SLR digital camera if you canot trust the picture it takes...SAD BUT TRUE.
I kind of agree but, though I didn't have a D60, it doesn't seem that the 10D's problems are exactly the same. However, It is a worry that you spen such a lot of money on this kit and results can be.... er inconsistent.

I still think the 10D is wonderful.

Martin

[Pekka]

DVWarrior wrote:
Pekka...Don't hit out at Canon...

Fact... Spend £1400 the most many of you will ever spend on a camera and get bum soft focus results !!!

Fact...Who make this 10D camera...oops could it be Canon...are they dropping QA to rush out back orders ?

Fact...If a 35mm zoom lens works on an EOS-3 without any adjustments it should then work on a 10D...!!!

Don't patronise us Pekka nor tell us how to vent our anger...the D60 was crap because of focusing errors and the 10D has not been sorted beyond the D60.
A lot of these chaps have put their hobbies and relationships on the line to get the 10D its not a cheap option...If Canon can't guarentee the 10D being able to focus with at least Canon lenses then it should be recalled till the problem is solved...instead they cock up the D60 leave a lot of disattified customers behind then out of the blue appears the 10D with the exact...same ...focus problem as the D60...

FACT...There is no point using any SLR digital camera if you canot trust the picture it takes...SAD BUT TRUE.

Well after I got my second 10D I can trust it as much I could trust my old trusty D30.

I have not told anyone to pipe down, let it come out! I just share this info because I have been there and the way to go AFTER anger is to evaluate the reason and get it fixed. Simple as that. 10D is not a soft camera, I have tons of photos to prove it.

And there is one more fact left: all electronic devices have and will have faults and QA problems. All. In this case the fault was so easy to see - have you ever e.g. measured frequency response of you hifi components to see if they match the specs? Or checked that your DVD players S/N ratio is really that good? Or measure that your toothbrush really rotates 150 times a minute?

[rodbunn]

You are minus a Digital camera the time it takes Canon to test/fix your camera.

[Roger_Cavanagh]

DVWarrior wrote:
Pekka...Don't hit out at Canon...

Sorry. ???

Fact... Spend £1400 the most many of you will ever spend on a camera and get bum soft focus results !!!

Somewhat of an exaggeration: some users - and I was one - had AF calibration issues, but plenty of people are getting 10Ds that work fine straight out of the box.

Fact...Who make this 10D camera...oops could it be Canon...are they dropping QA to rush out back orders ?

I doubt we'll ever get an official statement about what has happened.

Fact...If a 35mm zoom lens works on an EOS-3 without any adjustments it should then work on a 10D...!!!

Unfortunately, this is not true. Both lenses and cameras have adjustment capability around a "midpoint". As I understand it, it is possible for both items to have compensating errors, so that a miscalibration problem does not show. This clearly means that a lens may not work on all cameras.

Don't patronise us Pekka nor tell us how to vent our anger...

I don't see anywhere in this thread that Pekka has done this. He posted information in good faith to help people ascertain, if they really might have a problem camera.


the D60 was crap because of focusing errors and the 10D has not been sorted beyond the D60.
A lot of these chaps have put their hobbies and relationships on the line to get the 10D its not a cheap option...If Canon can't guarentee the 10D being able to focus with at least Canon lenses then it should be recalled till the problem is solved...instead they cock up the D60 leave a lot of disattified customers behind then out of the blue appears the 10D with the exact...same ...focus problem as the D60...

I don't think it is the same problem at all. The D60 (same as the D30) did not have great AF performance in low light/contrast. It could not get a lock, which is not the same as inaccurate focus.

It is only speculation why so many 10D have been sold with AF miscalibration. The only statement I have seen from Canon person was made by Chuck Westfall on the Rob Galbraith Forums. Chuck admitted there were a "small" proportion of cameras that needed adjustment and all such cameras would be fixed or replaced under warranty. He categorically denied a systemic or design problem with the 10D.

FACT...There is no point using any SLR digital camera if you canot trust the picture it takes...SAD BUT TRUE.

I agree, but the fact is there are 10Ds out there working fine. If yours is not, then Canon will fix it or replace it. Is it a pain? Yes, when it happens to you, but it's a fact of life: there's no way to get 100% perfection all the time; that's why we have guarantees, extended warranties and insurance policies.

I don't believe that Canon wanted to send out faulty equipment. Certainly, if they persist in doing so on a large scale, they will lose market share.

Regards,

[tony723]

Hi Roger,

Your comment is true and valid. In fact no one can 100% sure the equipment is OK before bought it and test it. However, as I mentioned in previous post, Canon should have a lesson learnt that just a few faulty equipment may casue the whole market and the loyal customers criticize on the product and lost customer confidence. I think no one camera model received so many comment from its soft focus issue compare to Canon 10D.

Anyway, if someone still cannot trust Canon 10D, maybe we can wait for the next model - Canon 20D perhaps. I think this time Canon will put extraordinatory effort to ensure the quality of product.

[Cal Maier]

This reply is to no one in particular, but I would like to comment on the focus issues of digital SLR cameras, as well as 35mm film bodies.

I manage a Pro camera centre in Western Canada, of all the Canon 10D's that we have sold (and there have been plenty), we have had only two Cameras that have had actual focus issues and those were serviced by Canon and adjusted to spec. (without further problems after adjustments) One of these bodies belonged to me.

Just to bring this into perspective, of the first 4 Fuji S2 Pro cameras that we sold - 3 had severe backfocusing issues and had to be sent in for adjustments.

I have sent 3 Nikon film bodies to Nikon, in the past year, to correct focus issues both front and back( one F90X was backfocusing from 6 to 8 feet behind the subject.

I have also sent an EOS IV in for similar focus problems.

This is not a new problem and I do not feel that Canon has produced a poor quality camera in the 10D, the only reason that it appears that Canon has had problems with this camera is the fact that there have been thousands of these cameras sold in the last couple of months. How many on this forum can honestly say they have never owned a vehicle that they considered to be a lemon? Probably not many, and I would think that the percentage of bad automobiles is a lot higher than Cameras that are out of adjustment.

My two cents!

Cal Maier
CPS 432

[rambro]

Folks,

While all your FACTS are absolutely true, Canon are still having problems FIXING this issue.
I sent my Camera into Canon's Service Center (NJ) for repair, got it back and you can imagine my dissapointment when my focusing issue was still blatantly obvious, AND noticeably worse.

I spent the best part of this weekend following the instructions on testing the focus using the methods described in your forums, and also the one put forward by Bob Atkins(very useful and well written). The most confusing FACT is this.

The tests reveal that my 10D shows both Front and Back focusing problems. This is after Canon "fixed" my original focusing issue.

Let me assure your that I have read-up a lot of reader comments, suggestions and Knowlege base articles on this issue to know how the focusing Test work, and
how to interpret the results.

At the end of the day, this is another FACT you should add to your list:

Canon cannot fix every Focusing issue on the 10D no matter what you say. There are a lot of lemon 10Ds
out there, and for a $1500 camera this type of poblem is not acceptable, nor is canon's stance on it. If the camera has a focusing problem, replace it, just like any other reputable manufacture would.

There are a lot of valid points in this forum, and it would be too much to ask Canon Marketing to read "just a few"?

Perhaps, the most pertinent comment is one put forward by Pekka.

"FACT...There is no point using any SLR digital camera if you canot trust the picture it takes...SAD BUT TRUE"

On that note, I'm off to phone Canon and ask them to REPLACE my 10D.

Rob

[Pekka]

Please see the addition I made on first post on this thread. May explain a lot.

[AndyDe]

I'm quite happy with my 10D but I do remember the long wait before canon admitted to problems with the case cracking on black G2's, fortuanately mine was ok...but now find myself checking it everytime I get it out, much as I'm now paranoid about sensor dust on the 10D.

[Spike56]

I got my 10D on 4/15/03 and 2 Canon lenses to get myself started. Both are not "L" lenses. That was relatively close to when they were introduced I beleive so I think I got an early one. I suspected a focusing problem early on but figured it was mostly due to user error as I am NOT a professional photogrpaher. During these past few months I've read as much as I could about this issue and did numerous tests. In most cases I was getting pictures that were not focused on the intended target, a good example was at my daughters soccer game where I took about 100 shots. Using the center focusing square you could see in the grass an area in focus that was usually just in front of the kids. I use shooting mostly around 50mm @ 1/250 - 1/750. Lens was wide open in most cases but even with the kids standing still this was still a problem. I now added a Canon 75-300 IS and with all three Im still seeing this. I setup and did tests with the lines on paper and with all three lenses I was front focusing.
So I called my local shop that sold me the body and they swapped me for a new one, which had firmware 1.0.1 in it and the old one didnt so Im guessing its newer.
I've taken a few shot with it, but they sure seem alot better. Next soccer game will be the true test.

I'll try and keep you all posted.

Spike

[Pekka]

Thanks Spike, it is good to hear shops are giving no trouble on this issue.

BTW: Everyone should have have a look at image http://www.pbase.com/image/18920257 which shows how big 10D AF sensors really are related to focus screen rectangles - it is very useful to be aware of this when focusing.

[Griffin]

lziering wrote:
Just a small point, but I don't think Canon makes a 50mm f/1.4 "L" lens. Either its a f/1.2 or its not an "L".

Humm, I think it should be EF50mm f/1.0 L USM.


Griffin.

[Griffin]

Pekka,

I strongly suggest you "pin" this thread on the top of this forum, if it is possible.


Griffin.

[Griffin]

Hello,

Sorry to bring this one up again.

I am close to buying my 10D. Well, after searching back the posts here and there, I am still wary about how I setup the test environment, say, placing the test ruler at a 45-degree angle. How could I know it is a 45-degree angle?

Thanks for all your help and input so far.

Wish me luck! :D


Griffin.

P.S. This is kinda "undercover" kinda of "bump", you know.

[Roger_Cavanagh]

Griffin,

Not sure whether you are seriously asking about how to set a 45-deg angle or not, but I'll assume you are.

It doesn't matter. You aren't trying to assess how much the focus is off, only that it is off. The key points are to make sure the camera is focussing on a completely flat target and that the angled ruler does not enter the focus area at all. If this happens, the camera might legitimately pick part of the ruler away from the intended point of focus. That's why all those picture aimed at the 6 inch mark of a ruler or complete cobblers.

Before pfaffing around with a complicated set-up, you might like to read this article. http://www.rogercavanagh.com/helpinfo/23_focuscheck.htm, which describes how Canon Germany say to test focus. It's a lot less hassle to set up, although it will only tell you whether focus is off, not if you are getting front or back focus. But off is off, and if you do need to have the camera calibrated I don't think the Canon service technicians will care what you found.

Regards,

[Pekka]

bump ( only admin can bump here :) )

[Griffin]

Roger_Cavanagh wrote:

Before pfaffing around with a complicated set-up, you might like to read this article. http://www.rogercavanagh.com/helpinfo/23_focuscheck.htm, which describes how Canon Germany say to test focus. It's a lot less hassle to set up, although it will only tell you whether focus is off, not if you are getting front or back focus. But off is off, and if you do need to have the camera calibrated I don't think the Canon service technicians will care what you found.

Regards,

Thank you Roger. Your site is one of the best Canon DSLR support sites out there. I have done some of my research before posting. :) I am still not sure about the ruler thing. BTW, the city here runs out of 10D appearently. I think I am taking time to try your hints out first.


Griffin.

[arem]

Hi Pekka.

I'm new to this board, so sorry if this has been posted and I missed it, but where can I dl the Canon Finland's focus test you used in the above example. Thanks.

[Pekka]

arem wrote:
Hi Pekka.

I'm new to this board, so sorry if this has been posted and I missed it, but where can I dl the Canon Finland's focus test you used in the above example. Thanks.

It's not available for download AFAIK. This info only tells how Canon does it - I don't know if they share the actual chart copies (I'll have to call and ask it one of these days).

[Griffin]

Using method as on Roger_Cavanagh's site. I run several tests with EF50mm f/1.4 USM, EF100mm f/2.8 Macro and EF70-200mm f/2.8 L USM. No problem exhibitied on my new 10D so far...

Which is good!


Griffin.

[slejhamer]

How much error is "allowable" or within spec for AF?

With my zoom lens at wide angle (28mm) the error is barely noticeable at f3.5. But at telephoto (135mm, f5.6) with a close-up test shot, there is a discernable 8mm-10mm front focus error.

For general shooting this may not be a problem, but it seems that for macro shots it would be very problematic. Also, if I had a faster lens, I think it would be even more evident. Is it time to pack it off to Canon, or is this level of error not something to worry about?

Hope I didn't miss the info in a previous post.

[Tin Man]

Thank Pekka! My test was right on the target. :D

[Roger_Cavanagh]

slejhamer wrote:
How much error is "allowable" or within spec for AF?


The best info I've seen in this article http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/faq30/eos3af.html by Atkins with intput from Canon's Chuck Westfall.

He writes:

A "normal-precision" AF sensor produces focusing accuracy within the depth of focus for the lens' maximum aperture. A high-precision" AF sensor produces focusing accuracy within 1/3 the depth of focus for the lens' maximum aperture. Therefore, when activated, the high-precision AF sensors have up to 3 times the precision of the normal-precision sensors.

The 10D has, AFAIK, normal precision sensors, but I doubt this standard could be applied to macro work.

Regards,

[mishkin]

Roger_Cavanagh wrote:
A "normal-precision" AF sensor produces focusing accuracy within the depth of focus for the lens' maximum aperture. A high-precision" AF sensor produces focusing accuracy within 1/3 the depth of focus for the lens' maximum aperture. Therefore, when activated, the high-precision AF sensors have up to 3 times the precision of the normal-precision sensors.


IMHO, Chuck is incorrect in saying "lens' maximum aperture". If this is so, focus accuracy would increase indefinitely as lens becomes faster. The limit is imposed by AF sensor itself, by the size of its pixels (20 micron - 10D's AF sensors are 2.5mm in length, with 128 pixels).

My educated guess -

http://www.canondslr.com/articles/m-dream/theory.html
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5655629
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5656592

- is that AF accuracy on 10D is 100% DOF at f/2.8, which with CoC=0.035mm translates to either 50 or 100 micron maximum error of AF sensor's calculation.

Chuck did not answer yet what exactly Canon AF spec is.

Mishkin

[mishkin]

http://www.canondslr.com/articles/m-dream/

Mishkin

[slejhamer]

Roger_Cavanagh wrote:
I doubt this standard could be applied to macro work.



Thanks Roger. I need to run a few more tests, but focus "within the depth of field" seems to give Canon quite a bit of fudge room. I suspect they will tell me to take a hike if I complain about a 1cm error!

Also, it would be quite unfortunate if the 10D couldn't take good macro shots simply because it is not a "pro" camera with "high precision" AF sensors. But I do understand your point. :)

[Roger_Cavanagh]

mishkin wrote:

IMHO, Chuck is incorrect in saying "lens' maximum aperture". If this is so, focus accuracy would increase indefinitely as lens becomes faster. The limit is imposed by AF sensor itself, by the size of its pixels (20 micron - 10D's AF sensors are 2.5mm in length, with 128 pixels).

I don't like this logic:

1. Indefinitely faster lenses are theoretical. The standards are practical standards to be used against lens that are manufactured.

2. It doesn't make sense to have a standard that cannot be applied to all lens, if as you claim, it should be DOF at f/2.8 - not all lens have a max aperture this large.

3. It doesn't make sense to have a standard that doesn't relate to actual lens operation, i..e, focusing is done at maximum aperture.

4. I suspect it's more likely that the criterion within DOF (if that is what is used) is an arbitrary standard to ensure "acceptable calibration.


AF sensor sensitivity and the feedback mechanism that controls lens adjustments will produce a variability of performance such that, even in a perfectly adjusted lens and camera, there will be a distribution of focus errors with the average error being zero and the standard deviation being, may be 1/3 DOF. I'm assuming a normal distribution here as that seems the most reasonable assumption.

According to your Theory notes, the subject distance is 2.5m, which equates to a DOF of 26.5 cm on the 50/1.8 - not quite even between front and back. But it would mean that a misfocus of 4cm or more wouldn't be all that unusual and would be acceptable within the standard - may be not in reality. :)


- is that AF accuracy on 10D is 100% DOF at f/2.8, which with CoC=0.035mm translates to either 50 or 100 micron maximum error of AF sensor's calculation.

Your test is ingenious, but I wonder, when you are working in microns how much variability testers will encounter when judging that they are exactly at 90 degrees to the target and have the centre target precisely within the centre focus circle.

Chuck did not answer yet what exactly Canon AF spec is.

Judging by Chuck's responses to other issues, I would guess that this will come under Canon's "confidential proprietary information" label. It is, after all, not necessary to know what service technicians use to assess acceptable performance. It might be fun to use elaborate tests to study navel fluff, but, in practice, all that is needed is a simple test to determine that AF doesn't give sharp pictures and then the camera is packed off to be adjusted.

Picking up Mitch's point in the post after yours. It does seem that this "standard" does give Canon plenty of "wiggle room". A CoC of 0.035mm is pretty lax even by "10x8 prints at normal viewing distance". It certainly does not deal with looking at 2000x3000 pixel images at 100% on a 21 inch monitor with your nose 6 inches from the screen.

I fear that we have been caught in a transitional period and that before technical improvements will be able to meet the more stringents requirements of digital photography.

Regards,

[mishkin]

1. Indefinitely faster lenses are theoretical. The standards are practical standards to be used against lens that are manufactured.

2. It doesn't make sense to have a standard that cannot be applied to all lens, if as you claim, it should be DOF at f/2.8 - not all lens have a max aperture this large.

3. It doesn't make sense to have a standard that doesn't relate to actual lens operation, i..e, focusing is done at maximum aperture.

4. I suspect it's more likely that the criterion within DOF (if that is what is used) is an arbitrary standard to ensure "acceptable calibration.


The answer to 1-4 is "The limit is imposed by AF sensor itself".


AF sensor sensitivity and the feedback mechanism that controls lens adjustments will produce a variability of performance such that, even in a perfectly adjusted lens and camera, there will be a distribution of focus errors with the average error being zero and the standard deviation being, may be 1/3 DOF. I'm assuming a normal distribution here as that seems the most reasonable assumption.


I will find out the distribution. The maximum AF error is supposed to be 100% of DOF at f/2.8 (with CoC=35u).


According to your Theory notes, the subject distance is 2.5m, which equates to a DOF of 26.5 cm on the 50/1.8 - not quite even between front and back. But it would mean that a misfocus of 4cm or more wouldn't be all that unusual and would be acceptable within the standard - may be not in reality. :)


26.5cm is for CoC=30u. 4cm misfocus is almost covered by the pixel size (CoC=7.4u) and should be acceptable.


Your test is ingenious, but I wonder, when you are working in microns how much variability testers will encounter when judging that they are exactly at 90 degrees to the target and have the centre target precisely within the centre focus circle.


Very small. The test is most sensitive to magnification. A 5% accuracy in magnification is easily achievable, which translates to 10% error in dx. Which is very good, because the accuracy of the misfocus measurement is ~10 micron even at f/1.4. Whether your camera misfocuses by 130 micron or 143, doesn't matter: it's out of spec.


Judging by Chuck's responses to other issues, I would guess that this will come under Canon's "confidential proprietary information" label. It is, after all, not necessary to know what service technicians use to assess acceptable performance. It might be fun to use elaborate tests to study navel fluff, but, in practice, all that is needed is a simple test to determine that AF doesn't give sharp pictures and then the camera is packed off to be adjusted.


It's not uncommon that the camera after service is misfocusing even worse. Having before/after numbers at hand is very useful in assessing the AF improvement after service.


Picking up Mitch's point in the post after yours. It does seem that this "standard" does give Canon plenty of "wiggle room". A CoC of 0.035mm is pretty lax even by "10x8 prints at normal viewing distance". It certainly does not deal with looking at 2000x3000 pixel images at 100% on a 21 inch monitor with your nose 6 inches from the screen.


That also means that user who accepts this logic accepts that his camera is operating at effective 3, 2, 1, or even less megapixels. To me, having 6.3MP sensor and getting 2MP results is unacceptable, although 8x10 can be printed from that.


I fear that we have been caught in a transitional period and that before technical improvements will be able to meet the more stringents requirements of digital photography.


Canon should seriously redesing their AF to match AF accuracy to sensor's resolution.

Mishkin

[slejhamer]

mishkin wrote:
Canon should seriously redesing their AF to match AF accuracy to sensor's resolution.



That is an interesting point with which I agree. Though this is not a "pro" camera, neither is the Elan 7 yet AF with that camera is very good. My 10D's degree of error is unacceptable, especially as I'm seeing it at f5.6 (widest aperture with my lens at 135mm.) And, after further testing, it is much worse at shorter focal lengths at f3.5 - there is almost no DOF behind the target subject, and almost all in front, and the result is repeatable. Even with the wiggle room, Canon would be hard pressed to call this one "within spec."

However, we should note that many 10Ds reportedly do achieve accurate AF, so perhaps this is a camera-specific calibration issue, rather than a fault of the AF design.

Well, anyway, a new camera is on the way - my dealer has offered to replace it, no hassles. In the meantime, I think I'll go take some in-focus infrared shots with my G1... ;-)

Cheers,

[photography By Evangelos]

I have 2 10D cameras and have noticed the A/F is not as good as my D60's are. The A/F is fast on the 10D but not accurate at all. I have a lot of out of focus issues. Often the subject I focus on is out of focus and the background is in focus. I have called canon CPS and the have told me to send in the 2 10D's and the lenses and some images on a CF card or a CD rom disk so they can evaluate the problem. That is a lot of gear to send in to canon and for seven days that’s along time. And the shipping charges are not gona be cheep. I am not sure if I should send it in one camera body at a time and just a few lenses. Or the hole lot Witch are 28-70L/17-35L/70-200 IS L/28-135 IS/85 1.8EF/100-400 IS L/400 2.8L/50mm Macro/100mm Macro/50 mm 1.0 L That’s a lot of glass how can this fix the problem sending it all in? Seem like crap soot to me. That’s over $20,000 of gear to send in. What the heck is the insurance gona run me with fedex?? I am so over this canon camera body crap they need to get it correct and then ship the cameras for sale not after the fact like it is my problem when they are not working correctly. I think canon is making these cameras to fast and they are making lemons in the factory. I dread sending all that gear in to canon. It just gets me mad just thinking about it!!

[Griffin]

Is it time to speculate if 300D has inherite this problem?


Griffin.

[Aylwin]

I've heard of this 10D focus problem before but never gave it any serious thought since mine seems to work fine. However, thanks to this thread... I'm getting paranoid! Guess what I'm going to do tonight as soon as I get home from work? Don't you just love forums?

Moi Pekka! Excellent forum with tons of good info. Tosi hyva!

[2Hog]

I ordered a 10d and IS lens 31 Aug 03. I did this after reading a lot of favorable articles on this forum and on the G3 forum. I own a G3. After reading this thread and a few others yesterday and today I have decided $1500 is too much of a gamble for a camera of questionable performance. And I do not wish to go through the hassle of mailing a camera back and forth for repair. Tomorrow morning I will be calling Ritz Camera to cancel the order.

Thanks for the information guys. 2hog

[Aylwin]

Well, it looks like I'm the one who needs to be shipped off to the Canon Service Center for calibration. :)

I stuck a page of text on the wall and took pictures in AF and MF modes. The camera was on a tripod about a meter away and the shutter was on timer release. I used the 28-135 IS lens fully open at both 28mm and 135mm.

In all cases, the AF mode was either sharper or just as sharp as MF.

I'm sure I'm doing the test wrong. Should I be farther from the subject? Does it matter? Maybe I'll try to setup the test with a ruler.

Or maybe I should just assume everything's fine and be happy. Ignorance is bliss! :)

[Roger_Cavanagh]

Aylwin wrote:
Or maybe I should just assume everything's fine and be happy. Ignorance is bliss! :)


If your pictures are not OK, then the conclusion must be it's not the "usual" focusing problem that is the cause. But, if the pictures of your text are sharp, stop worrying and go and take pictures of more photogenic subjects.

Regards,

[mishkin]

The camera was on a tripod about a meter away and the shutter was on timer release. I used the 28-135 IS lens fully open at both 28mm and 135mm.

28-135 is a slow lens (esp. at 135mm - f/5.6). Thus, it can hide large AF error (1 pixel blur due to misfocus is equivalent to 7.4u*5.6=41 micron AF error; the spec is most likely +/-50 micron). If in the future you plan to buy fast lenses (e.g. 50/1.8 ), they can reveal body's miscalibration. If you want to make sure your camera is calibrated correctly, you may want to borrow a fast lens from somebody and do Pekka's or my test:
http://www.canondslr.com/articles/m-dream

I'm sure I'm doing the test wrong. Should I be farther from the subject? Does it matter?

Yes, distance matters. Close distance creates an impression of high focusing accuracy, e.g. if you shoot a ruler with 135mm lens at a distance of just 1m, and see a "negligible misfocus" of "just" 5mm, you may make a wrong conclusion that your camera focuses accurately. However, at a distance equal to 50x focal lengths (6.75m), the misfocus will be equal to 5*(6.75/1)^2=228mm=9". That's one huge&ugly misfocus! In fact, your AF error dx in this case is equal to dx=da*(f/a)^2=5*(135/1000)^2=0.091mm=91micron, which is probably out of the spec!

My advice - test at 50x focal length. 50x is good middle point between closeup and infinity. Canon tests cameras with 50mm lens at 2.5m, that is, at 50f. My test chart automatically positions the camera at a distance 50f by means of precalculated circle and AF squares positions:

http://www.canondslr.com/articles/m-dream/images/Positioning.jpg

This normalizes test process between different focal lengths:

http://www.canondslr.com/articles/m-dream/images/20vs200.gif

Or maybe I should just assume everything's fine and be happy. Ignorance is bliss! :)

It's up to you. If your warranty expires and after that you discover that your camera misfocuses and needs calibration, that will cost you $$. You will also end up with thousands of slighly - but annoyingly - blurred pictures. Test while it's free.

Mishkin

[Aylwin]

Thanks for the link! Very interesting indeed. I'll try it out as soon as I can. The mirrors are going to be a bit tricky though. Then there's the fast lens...

By the way, I've bookmarked your site and look forward to the grand opening!

[Littlebike]

Its been confirmed, my Camera has a focus issue.

I called Canon a couple days ago and they blamed the focus on my Sigma Lens, I called Sigma, they blamed Canon.

I went to a local Camera store with my little focus tester I amde and borrowed a Canon lens (28-85 3.5-4.5) for a quick test.

While I was setting up to shoot they guy was telling me about how they received a 10d in stock that had the issue and how it is really quite unmistakeable. I was reviewing the shot on my LCD when he said that (unmistakeble), then I showed him my picture, he said thiers looked EXACTLY like mine.

Using that lense at the 28mm setting my Camera was backfocusing approximately 3-5cm (I dont have the camera right here to look at) but at 85, it was quite close. My Sigma lens was kinda all over the place in tests I'v done in the past, +/- 1-1.5cm.

It seems that it is not something that happens everytime, even when on a tripod. This parallels thier results from the past.

I'm not angry, just glad I figured out EXACTLY what the problem is, now that I know I can get something done about it.

BTW, this is my first autofocus camera and my first digital so i really was not sure what to expect but I was pretty sure I should have been getting better results than I was.

[harpoon]

Hmm......before I read this thread I was really getting close to buying a 10D. Now I think I should put it off until we see an end to this focusing issue.

It appears to me that this is a wide speaded issue. I am quite disappointed at Canon for not issuing a statement to either admit or dismiss it. This is what is said at luminous-landscapes.com:

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/canon-controversies.shtml


quote:
UPDATE:

In the few days since the above was first published I have received a huge amount of mail from readers who claim that the 10D focus issue is much worse than what I have written would lead one to believe. Many of these e-mails are from people who claim to be professional photographers with extensive experience, rather than the newbies who fret unnecessarily over what they read on web forums.

Given the shear number of such e-mails I have no reason to doubt them, or their concerns. This of course raises the specter of a cover up by Canon. Given that Canon in the U.S. has not made any official statement on this issue, and that there are now a large number of apparently knowledgeable and honest photographers who are seeing this problem, one can only conclude that there is more here than meets the eye.

An open request to Canon ¡ª tell us what's going on! If there is a problem, let us know what it is and what steps are being taken to remedy it. If there isn't a problem, or if it's as minor as some Canon representatives are telling us it is, then provide us with the reassurances needed to rebuild confidence in this product and your company. At the moment, and until something is said publically on this matter, both remain in doubt.



I suggest all of you who have problem with autofocusing write to your state's attorney general's office. Usually you can find the email address for consumer complaint on the state's website. The state attorney general will forward your complaint to Canon, and Canon is obliged to contact you, provide a solution satisfying to both parties, and report back to the state attorney general in order to have the case closed. Sometimes the state needs a person's name to complain against. In this case I think Canon USA's president and CEO Kinya Uchida would serve the purpose well.

I believe with sufficient amount of complaints to the state attorney general, we can force Canon to make a public statement to admit the problem or even a recall.

[Littlebike]

In doing some research I found that there has been a call in the Korean photo community to boycott Canon due to these issues. And, a Sigma rep is mailing a French to English translation of an article from a french magazine where, as I understand it, Canon French (?) admit to the issue.

I am not sure what all is in the article but I will let you know when I know more.

[BobbyC]

It's a Korean photo club, not the whole Korean photo community.

[lightandlife]

It is not just one club. It appears that more Korean consumers are involved.

[Littlebike]

When I called Canon today (1800-ok-canon) the person I talked to admitted there was a problem and told me to just send it in, and I should have it back in 5-10 business days. I hope this is the case since they do not have to order any parts for me and I am going on vacation in a couple weeks.

[harpoon]

I am an engineer. I cannot have a peace of mind unless I understand what the problem is. If someone tells me he can fix something I need to know how before I put my faith on his claim. The fact that some people sent the camera in and got it back without any improvement and Canon so far refuses to explain the problem further strengthens my disbelief on Canon.

So what exactly is the root cause of the issue? Is it a software or hardware problem? If hardware, is it a optical design problem like the Hubble telescope or is it a manufacturing QC problem? Is it electronic or Mechanical? Is it bad component like the early Pantinum chip or it's bad calibration? If Canon says they can fix it with confidence, then they must know the root cause, so why the secrecy on the root cause? I absolutely resent being patronized by Canon this way. Don't ask why, you won't understand, just give it to me and I'll fix it.

When they "fix" the problem, why do they need the lens? The lens is supposed to be calibrated to fit every camera. When they do the fixing, are they fixing the camera or are they adjust the lens to fix the eccentric camera body? If the lenses are tuned to fit this particular camera, are they going to be off when used on other cameras which doesn't have any focus problems?

[Littlebike]

When I spoke with them today all they asked for was my Camera (No Battery, No Flash Card, No Lens), a copy of my warrenty card, a copy of my receipt, and a detailed letter explaining the issue.

I am also going to include some prints of my test pictures to further illustrate the problem.

They said it would be 5-10 Business days.

[andrewcl]

I have just completed a set of tests. 50mm, 16 -35mm and 400mm f5.6

AF on all lenses front focus but ithe rear end of the DoF is just in.

MF on all but the 400 was bad even after a dioptre check. On the 400 MF was spot on. I have a print to show but I do not know if or how I add it to this reply.

[Pekka]

bump

[lightandlife]

harpoon wrote:
I suggest all of you who have problem with autofocusing write to your state's attorney general's office. Usually you can find the email address for consumer complaint on the state's website. The state attorney general will forward your complaint to Canon, and Canon is obliged to contact you, provide a solution satisfying to both parties, and report back to the state attorney general in order to have the case closed. Sometimes the state needs a person's name to complain against. In this case I think Canon USA's president and CEO Kinya Uchida would serve the purpose well.

I believe with sufficient amount of complaints to the state attorney general, we can force Canon to make a public statement to admit the problem or even a recall.

What makes you think Attorney Generals would do anything? They have far more important things to handle, than the autofocus issue. They won't lift a finger.

They are usually understaffed, mostly with less competent lawyers than the average practicing the law.

[RogerBayford]

:( Just purchased a new 10D last week and my first few shots were very disapointing. The focus was really soft, even after using Photo shop's unsharp mask, the results were not as good as expected.
I looked around and found several sites that discussed 10D focus problems and several offered Focus test set ups. I made up a test set up and shot images in both Manual and Auto with my 50mm , 28-80 zoom and my 75-300 zoom at the widest apertures. Every shot showed marked front focusing. OK so now I have discovered the cause of the problem how do I get it fixed. All of these lenses work really well with my Elan, Elan ll and the Elan llE.
Since I shoot lots of portraits I dont want to be focused on the persons nose, I want the eyes tack sharp. This camera isnt going to cut it withot some adjustments, Who do I contact?
I must add, my Sony and Minolta equipment all focus just fine in the same tests, and so do all my other EOS cameras.
I guess I am very disapointed that Canon didnt recall them all knowing there is a definite problem.
Welcome any suggestions please
Roger

[izo]

now, this is getting weird..
i'm 300d user, but the problem is similar, only that is back focus. and i'm not the only one with it on 300d series, belive me. this seems to be a lot bigger problem that canon want's to admit. i belive that if all poeple using 10d or 300d would test their hardware a litle bit techincal, there would be somewhere 70-80 % focus problem. why the hell we have to return our brand new cameras back for fixing (even 2 or 3 times). they should calibrated them before the sell, or i'm stupid?
the same problem apply to new nikon model, d70 (backfocus too). for that kind of money (1000+ usd/€) that these cameras costs, i was pretty sure i'm getting something that works :evil: .
well i do think that af plate, used in 300d/10d with 7 af points isn't accurate enuogh (maybe for film slr), there are cameras from which af works just like it should be.
i guess that problem lies in factory calibrating, which is not done for every camera (or very quickly), and if u lucky, u get one, which is ok. is this some kind of lottery, or what (i know the name, it's called reducing the costs)?
anyway here's the link, where some russian guy try to fixed by himself. and he did it. the same procedure goes for 300d/10d, only that canon uses squre hole in rotating knob, nikon uses hexagin shape..
http://dvdhelp.narod.ru/D70_back_focus.html

i hope this would be helpful to someone,
iztok from slovenia, europe

[S230]

now, this is getting weird..
i'm 300d user, but the problem is similar, only that is back focus. and i'm not the only one with it on 300d series, belive me. this seems to be a lot bigger problem that canon want's to admit. i belive that if all poeple using 10d or 300d would test their hardware a litle bit techincal, there would be somewhere 70-80 % focus problem. why the hell we have to return our brand new cameras back for fixing (even 2 or 3 times). they should calibrated them before the sell, or i'm stupid?
the same problem apply to new nikon model, d70 (backfocus too). for that kind of money (1000+ usd/€) that these cameras costs, i was pretty sure i'm getting something that works :evil: .
well i do think that af plate, used in 300d/10d with 7 af points isn't accurate enuogh (maybe for film slr), there are cameras from which af works just like it should be.
i guess that problem lies in factory calibrating, which is not done for every camera (or very quickly), and if u lucky, u get one, which is ok. is this some kind of lottery, or what (i know the name, it's called reducing the costs)?
anyway here's the link, where some russian guy try to fixed by himself. and he did it. the same procedure goes for 300d/10d, only that canon uses squre hole in rotating knob, nikon uses hexagin shape..
http://dvdhelp.narod.ru/D70_back_focus.html

i hope this would be helpful to someone,
iztok from slovenia, europe
This is interesting because I had been asking this same problem on my other posting about this very same problem.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50304

I even went further by purchasing new Camera Lens instead of the cheap Kit Lens just to test this out and it is true that focusing is off. Hopefully Tonight I can do some testing to futher validate this.

[mantra]

hi
great tutorial
but i used the floor of my flat apartment ,i put down the camera on the floor and the box on the floor , and i used a 70-200 ef

does it work?
is reliable use the 70-200 and the floor