Film recommendation for theatre gig

[Curtis N]

Becky and I will be shooting the final dress of a local church theatre production Thursday night. While I get closeups from the floor with my (her) 300D and 70-200 F2.8, the preliminary plan is for Becky to get some full stage shots from the balcony with her 35mm film body, 50mm F1.4 & tripod.

I've done some theatre work before and if the light is decent I'm hoping ISO 400 film should be enough with a lens that fast. But I'm having trouble finding tungsten-balanced 400 speed film, either locally or online. What are my options?

a) Buy tungsten-balanced 400 speed film from ______ .com and have them overnight it (tell me where to find it).

b) Buy a _______ filter for shooting under tungsten lighting with daylight film (please clue me in here).

c) Use daylight film, have the lab scan the negs and fix the color balance with Paint Shop Pro (I was going to have the negs scanned anyway).

d) Any other suggestions?

Thank you in advance for traveling back to the 20th century with me.:)

[Jon]

a) EPJ - Ektachrome 320 is tungsten-balanced. Try B&H.
b) Get an 80A filter (3200K to 5500K correction) and ISO 800 film. The 80A's at least 1 stop filter factor, IIRC. Actually, if it's well lit, you might be able to get by with something slower.
c) Gaaahhh!!!!

[Curtis N]

Thanks, Jon.
Regarding the Ektachrome 320 - both B&H and Adorama are closed through Wednesday and this gig is on Thursday. Any other possible vendors?

[CyberDyneSystems]

Exactly what is this "film" you speak of ???










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Sorry could not resist :)

[Curtis N]

Exactly what is this "film" you speak of?I don't know much about it. But one thing I've noticed that says a lot about the direction photography is going - the local camera shops have a deplorable lack of inventory and selection. The discount stores have more on their shelves.

I can't blame them, the last thing they want is film sitting on the shelves getting old. But if someone needs something specialized in significant quantity, he's S.O.L.

[Merle]

Hello,
I would suggest using Kodak Portra 800 ISO Film. Take your photofinishing work to a Pro lab and explain the color that you are expecting to recieve in the finished prints. This will eliminate your needing to put any filtration on the front of your lens which will only lessen the sharpness of your images and require you using a lower f-stop to compensate for the light loss due to your filtration. ;) :) :D

Good Shooting To Ya !!
Merle

[Merle]

CurtisN,

You should have a pro Lab in your area. They will carry a good invantory of film as a lot of Pros still prefer film (I myself just switched from medium format film to digital about 8 months ago);) :) :D

Good Shooting To Ya !!
Merle

[Jon]

Thanks, Jon.
Regarding the Ektachrome 320 - both B&H and Adorama are closed through Wednesday and this gig is on Thursday. Any other possible vendors?
Isn't Calumet in your area? ISTR a couple of California-based companies that people have recommended. It's not a rarity for the pro circuit, but Ritz/Wolf won't stock it. I suspect you could get it from Penn Camera, based in DC, as well (http://www.penncamera.com, IIRC).

[Curtis N]

Thanks, Merle and Jon.

I'll be making phone calls today to find film and tonight we get to see the venue and will have a better idea what's feasible.

Shooting film sure is a pain, not to mention expensive! I think I quoted the wrong price for this gig!

[ScottE]

Labs have to use filters when printing from negatives anyway. If you have a good lab, let them know what you did and they can probably correct for the lighting. Many auto-printing machines will try to do it as well.

If you can, take a shot of a white card to help them get the filters correct.

If you use daylight balanced slide film you will need to use a blue filter and even then there is no guarantee it will be correct. As mentioned, these lose a lot of light so you would want to go to a faster film.

[SkipD]

Curtis - you want to make sure that your local lab(s) can handle whatever film you get without messing up the job. If you choose to use a special film, I'd suggest contacting the labs and see what they can do prior to buying the film. A pro lab might even have film to sell.

[Curtis N]

Update:
I found the EPJ - Ektachrome 320 that Jon recommended at Calumet. $14.99 per roll plus shipping.

The output for this project will be images on a CD which I will sell to cast, crew, etc. I'll make a set of prints for everyone to view but not until I straighten & crop them. I talked with a highly-recommended pro lab near my office. They can process the film, scan it at high res and "color correct" the images. 50 cents per frame plus the processing. Another semi-pro lab will give me 6 megapixel scans for a bit less. The final choice will probably depend on turnaround time and the volume we wind up with.

We did some test shooting in the venue tonight with the light cues. I'm not sure 400 ISO will be enough and will probably go with 800 speed film. People on stage tend to move most quickly right when you press the shutter. 800 will be a bit grainy but the shutter speed we gain from it will probably be worth it.

To avoid busting the budget, we'll just need to be selective and not go through too much film. The stage is small so I should be able to get most shots with my 300D and 70-200 anyway.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Jon]

Remember - E-6 process is very amenable to push-processing. Some gamma buildup in the process though. The other caution I'll pass on is that theater lighting is commonly contrastier than you might like it to be (or even think it is).

[Curtis N]

Remember - E-6 process is very amenable to push-processing. Some gamma buildup in the process though.Please understand that my experience with film thus far consists of a)Buy what they sell at the drug store, b) shoot, c) take film back to drug store, which sends it to Kodak. Prints come back in a few days.

So I need you to define some of these terms. E-6? C-41? Gamma guildup? Huh?

I understand push-processing, I think. Buy 400 film, set the camera at ISO 800 to get faster shutter speed, then be sure to tell the lab what I did. Are you suggesting that push-processing 400 speed film might produce better results than normally-processed 800 speed film?

[Jon]

E-6 is Ektachrome (slide) processing chemistry. C-41 is standard colour neg. processing. Gamma buildup - You know gamma from post-processing your RAW files; it's the same thing in film. If you push-process film, the gamma (essentially contrast) increases.

The push-processing recommendation is to enable you to use a tungsten balance film rather than daylight. Remember, unlike your digital sensor, film doesn't capture everything and then adjust it to work. In film, there are dyes in the three colour layers and different sensitivity silver salts so that a tungsten balance film responds more strongly (captures more light from) the blue part of the spectrum to counter the orange cast you'd otherwise get. Daylight film responds more strongly to the orange part of the spectrum. So if you use daylight film and post-process, you'll be throwing away some of the blue light information you would collect if the film and the light matched. Post-processing film for colour balance means that you'll have to "throw away" some of the orange information to more closely match the blue levels, or stretch out the (abbreviated) blue data to match the orange. What it amounts to is overexposing one layer, underexposing another, and trying to make up for it in post-processing.

Actually, the same color-balancing dance goes on in digital, it's just that whichever balance you shoot, the same information is collected, so you're "throwing away" less in the original exposure, and have to "put back" less in post-processing. But it's still preferable to get it right in-camera via color-balancing filters if possible.

[Curtis N]

So it sounds like you want me to consider getting the EPJ Ektachrome 320 and pushing it to 640? That this method will capture more accurate color, but it would increase the contrast?

And you're right about the contrasty nature of theatre lighting. It can be brutal! So I'm thinking that using a film technique that increases contrast might just make it worse.

Thanks for the insights, Jon. The more I learn about film, the more I like my digital camera.:)

[glenhead]

If you can get a color reference card at your local camera store, that can make a huge difference in the lab's getting the color right (IF they're a pro-grade lab and can actually work with the color balance, that is!) Take a shot or two of the color card under the stage lights at the beginning of the roll, and take the card to the lab when you get the film developed. I did that on a couple of similar shoots way back before the earth cooled (mid-late 80s) and got some very nice results.

[Jon]

Using 800 ISO daylight film and a colour-compensating (80A) filter will cost you 1+ stops, and historically the faster films have also been contrastier, so it's pretty much Hobson's Choice.

Working with film will, however, cure one of the sloppy "I'll fix it in PhotoShop" attitude. Once you see the difference getting it right in the camera makes, you'll make the effort up front. It really is easier that way.

[glenhead]

Working with film will, however, cure one of the sloppy "I'll fix it in PhotoShop" attitude. Once you see the difference getting it right in the camera makes, you'll make the effort up front. It really is easier that way.

A-MEN!

[Curtis N]

Well I have made the Hobson's Choice. Got some 800 daylight film + 80A filter. Partly because of budget, partly because of the choice of available labs in terms of who can process what at a reasonable cost and turn it around quick.

And partly because I will still have an option - If this combo gives me decent shutter speeds, fine. I'll get scans that are more-or-less color correct, albeit a little grainy. If the light isn't good enough, we can take the filter off and keep shooting, then deal with the color later.

In terms of any "fix it in photoshop" attitude - believe me, I do not enjoy that element, I'm not much good at it, and would prefer to avoid it. This shoot will generate hundreds of shots, and the last thing I want to do is spend all weekend staring at a CRT screen.

I appreciate everyone's insights. By next week we'll do the post-mortem analysis.

[PhotosGuy]

By next week we'll do the post-mortem analysis. I'm looking forward to that. Hope you shoot some RAW frames for comparison, too. I suspect that you'll get the best results with that. Film is generally better than digital under the right conditions, but IMO, high-speed film in contrasty lighting isn't going to be one of them.
Good luck, Curtis!

[Curtis N]

Hope you shoot some RAW frames for comparison, too.We did. About 350 shots with the 300D and Sigma 70-200 F2.8, a few are posted here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=109754).

And about 140 frames of film, a few posted here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=891053#post891053).

[Merle]

CurtisN,
I use the Portra 800 on all wedding ceremony shots with great results. I suggest never go into a job thinking push processing. You will always suffer color loss to pushing. My approach has always been to use the right film speed for the job but if you get caught then push process in order to get the shots.
By the way a lot of pro's use Kodak Portra 800 ISO for their ceremony shots. I then switch back to Portra ISO 400 or 160 if I'm going to be outside in bright light. ( that was when I was still shooting film) ;) :) :D

Good Shooting to Ya !!
Merle

[Curtis N]

Thanks for the info, Merle.
I have no doubt that the results would have been better with "pro quality" film. I was trying to hold the line on the budget and ran out of time to buy it online, but next time I'll certainly try the Portra 800.