Taking picutres at school play

[mknabster]

Since i am one of the photographers for my school's newspaper, I was asked to do this year's play in November. I have the G6, a tripod, and all of the accessory lenses for it. I'm not sure if i'm allowed to use a flash, so i was wondering if there are any settings i can use to get a good picture w/out using one. Like is there a certain ISO, shutter speed, or aperture setting i should use? I will be using my tripod, so camera shake is not a problem. Any suggestions?

[paulcheah]

Depends on the available lighting and amount of movement in the play. If your intention is pin sharp pictures low shutter speeds, large aperture sizes and high iso speeds are pretty much the order of the day. If the play is about a dance maybe you can slow down the shutter speed to capture the sense of motion in some of the shots?

[Bryan Bedell]

I'm kind of an idiot, but I just shot a concert with my G6, and here's what I did:

I got decent photos at ISO 100 and 200 and a tripod when possible. Noise might be a problem at 200, depending on your output size, but you can use a noise-reduction program to clean them up. 400 would give you more options, but it's unuseably noisy in my opinion.

I had best results with the spot metering in P mode, meter a couple of the brightest spots in the scene, choose one that looks good, and press * to lock metering, focus, and shoot. your photos will probably come back a little underexposed, but that's better than washed out highlights, you can usually get them looking good in photoshop. if you meter on something bright, you'll have shorter exposures so you'll also have less chance of camera shake (it happens, even with a tripod) or subject movement. Try to shoot a lot during still bits, it's hard to capture motion.

Make sure your flash and focus assist beam are off, it's totally distracting to the subjects and audience to have blue grids popping up on people's faces. Don't use auto, because the flash will fire.

[lefturn99]

I agree with the above except I would use Av at 2.0 for the fastest properly exposed shutter speed. If you must use P, half-press to set exposure, then usse program shift to get a better pair of aperture and shutter settings. That's a hassle so use Av.

[Bryan Bedell]

Yeah, good point, lefturn. The drag is that the lower the aperture, the less depth of field you have, so focusing is important, and you don't have your focus-assist beam, so look for those high-contrast edges to autofocus on, or look into hyperfocal distances and do some math.

[mknabster]

ok thanks guys, i have to set a few test runs, sop we'll see how they come out. But when i have this 'gig' i'll post some shots on here for you guys to see. Thanks again!

[Robert_Lay]

I would go one step further and suggest that unless you have a fairly powerful external accessory flash unit that you don't want to shoot with flash even if allowed.

Chances are that you would get worse pictures with the flash, since it won't reach (unless you are very close to the performers), and the flash will just cut your exposure times too short.

As leftturn99 intimated above, use Av mode with the lens wide open and pray.

Color balance is going to be crucial - try to get a handle on what it's going to be like before the show starts - if possible get a white card reading to do a custom white balance.

[dlmj1972]

Can you get access to the dress rehersals? It would give you a chance to take some test shots and maybe even get some closeups. I would ask for permission to get close (but staying out of the way) during a dress rehersal. You could even use those shots for your paper.

[RossW]

If you don't use flash -- and I'd avoid it -- Bob is right on with regards to setting a white balance for the stage lights. But be sure you get that balance for the "whitest" light you can on the stage. Putting your white balance card under lighting with color gels will thow it off. Unless you can stop everything and set new white balances for every lighting scene, stick to a generic "indoor" incandescent lighting as your reference white.

And the idea of getting into a dress rehearsal is also one to take advantage of if possible. Sometimes you can even get the director and cast to agree to let you shoot a few bits of action afterwards, when you can have them freeze their positions, and perhaps tweak the lighting just a bit for a better photo.

[lefturn99]

I'm not sure I would recommend Mknabster shoot in RAW for an important shoot if he isn't used to it, but in RAW, white balance is almost moot. It can be nondestructively adjusted in conversion. I was a little intimidated at first by "degrees of Kelvin", but now that I'm used to it, it's about 5 seconds and it is exactly as I want it.

Isn't it amazing how new technology makes things you worked hard to master irrelevant? I used to be pretty good at Word Pervect 5.1.

[Superbaldguy]

Unless you are going for that artsy movement thing, no need to use a tripod. I recently shot a play in our local high school gymnasium and I used the G6 at ISO 400, on Manual exposure mode, and my settings were 1/80th @ f/2.8 for most of the event. I set the white balance to Tungsten and they look terrific.

Of course, at the long end, you don't have f/2.8; I soon discovered that it's best to use mid focal lengths for the best quality, as the G6 lens is not sharp wide open at that point.

[Robert_Lay]

Isn't it amazing how new technology makes things you worked hard to master irrelevant? I used to be pretty good at Word Pervect 5.1.

If Word for Windows had an equivalent to "Reveal Codes" we would have no problems at all - Hi!

[mknabster]

I talked to the head of the newspaper, and he said that maybe it would be better for me to go the dress rehearsel, but i think i would like to get shots of the actual even too. I like that shot Superbaldguy, but i did notice the noise. I did hear of noise reduction programs out there. Does anyone know of any free ones, or even better, photoshop plug-ins for it? Because i use Elements, and i haven't figured out how to do it yet. Do you guys think the wide-angle lense would be a good choice for using at the play, or should i just use the normal lense on it?

[lefturn99]

Bob, Reveal Codes is one of the questions I use for my Curmudgeon test. I think you may have passed. Also, LSMFT and BR-549. If they are old race people I ask if they know the head bolt torque settings for an Offy.

What programing language did an IBM 407 use? What is a manila 5081?

[Robert_Lay]

Bob, Reveal Codes is one of the questions I use for my Curmudgeon test. I think you may have passed. Also, LSMFT and BR-549. If they are old race people I ask if they know the head bolt torque settings for an Offy.

What programing language did an IBM 407 use? What is a manila 5081?
Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco.

BR-549 was the license plate number of some hill-billy, but I can't remember his name.

The Offenhauser engines that you speak of are probably the ones that were standard for the Indy 500 many-many years ago, but I have no clue as to the torque settings - Hi!

I do not know anything about the IBM 407, per se, but I did learn an IBM assembly language around 1972, but I can't be sure what it was called - I think it was called BAL.

My early experiences were mostly with the Data General 800 microsecond Minicomputer.
You've really got me on manila 5081 - no clue.

Are you familiar with MIL-TFD-41?

[lefturn99]

The IBM 407 was a tabulating machine and was "programmed" using jumper wires. It was pretty much gone by the '70s.

The 5081 was the standard 80 column punched card.

Of course BR-549 Was the phone number for Junior Sample's used car lot on Hee Haw.

I had never heard of your acronym, though I thought it might have something to do with military specification. I googled it and that's pretty funny. Kinda like the WW II Army term FUBAR. No, I was not in WW II but my dad was.

[lefturn99]

And of course the Offy has an integral head so no head bolts to torque. Back in the day they solved the high compression head gasket failures by casting the head and block as one. It was a bottom loader.

[Robert_Lay]

Wow, I learned something about the Offy.
I should have known about the punched cards. I dropped a box of those once with a 2 foot stack of cards in it. A Fortran program. Thank God they were numbered.

I should also have known about the IBM tabulating machine. My Dad introduced me to one of those when they first came out. He was the Head of the Accounting Department at Cummins Engine Co., in Columbus IN, and he was the one who introduced that machine at Cummins for doing the payroll, etc. I think I was still in High School at the time.

[lefturn99]

Actually, Cummins had the same problem with a different solution. I'm on a little shaky ground but I think I know what I'm talking about. Of course diesels are high compression engines and that was in the day before good head gaskets. Cummins solved the problem of sealing a long cylinder head by usein smaller heads - Only two cylinders per head. A six cylinder engine had three heads. That way they could space the head bolts more effeciently. They also used cylinder liners.I may be way off on that, I'm not sure.

Bob, I thought you had flunked the Curmudgeon test, but with your admissions, it looks like you have passed. Congratulations. :)

[Belmondo]

This is a fun conversation, but we're not helping the original poster much with his question. :confused:

[lefturn99]

That is absolutely true. Mea Culpa.

[pcDigiMan]

Just a thought. Even if you are told no flash ask or assume you can when they take their final bow you will not be distracting any one. Ask, but you will no distract or cause someone to loose their thought (lines) at that time.

[rpolitsr]

I talked to the head of the newspaper, and he said that maybe it would be better for me to go the dress rehearsel, but i think i would like to get shots of the actual even too. I like that shot Superbaldguy, but i did notice the noise. I did hear of noise reduction programs out there. Does anyone know of any free ones, or even better, photoshop plug-ins for it? Because i use Elements, and i haven't figured out how to do it yet. Do you guys think the wide-angle lense would be a good choice for using at the play, or should i just use the normal lense on it?


mknabster
You got great advice from the previous posts. I think the wisest recommendation is to shot during and after the dress rehearsal and also during the actual play.
Shot some close up pictures of the characters with the (bounced) flash after the dress rehearsal, usually it is hard to get attention from the director or the actors before the play. Do not forget to switch White Balance settings for the flash and stage light.

The actual picture quality will largely depend on the quality of the luminaries in the stage and the light set up. If the school has good stage lights and some professional advice on lighting, you are done. Good luck.

Neat Image does a good job removing noise from pictures. I tested it with Superbaldguy picture. There is a free stand alone demo version that can be used with jpg images for non-commercial purposes. The school’s newspaper may qualify for it. To get the PhotoShop plug-in you must purchase the program.

[andrewc]

I belong to a drama society and I take photographs during the dress rehearsals. By that time it should be running almost as the final production, but you should be able to get good angles and use flash without disturbing the audience.

[andrewc]

bouce flash very much depends on the architecture of the studio or theatre. Where we rehearse there is proscenium arch, high ceiling hall and the stage has a flyloft for lifting scenery. Bounce doesn't work well if there isn't anything to bounce from. Also everything on stage - roof, walls etc., is painted matt black which deesn't help.

I had to use my Sigma flash on the hotshoe, next time I may try an off shoe cord to try and get better modelling - although it was used pretty much as a fill in flash letting the stage lights do the rest.

[rpolitsr]

About bouncing, I thought on an OMNIBOUNCE or a reflecting surface attached to the flash at an angle or, with an assistant, even a reflective panel. A piece of white Styrofoam does a good job.

I thought of using the flash just to make portraits of the actors in costume.

The disadvantage of using the flash during the play is that the mood created by the stage light disappears.

The fill flash may work, but using light sources of different color temperatures may also be a problem.

[andrewc]

i hadn't thought of a reflector. Anyway in our group there was no spare hands as I was also doing sound and lights at the same time! To get away without flash you would have to up the ISO and a faster lens. For the last play I took 400 shots which should keep all the actors pleased.

A couple of weeks before I carefully staged some shots for press publicity, where the aim was to give an indication of the play, not what actually happened, therefore the actors were much closer together to give a shot that was more likely to be used in the press. I was pleased in the local paper they gave me 2/3rds of the centre spread.

[Robert_Lay]

This is a fun conversation, but we're not helping the original poster much with his question. :confused:

Point taken!

[mknabster]

Hey SuperBaldguy, your settings that you told me you used for that play you posted, i used them that night, i got many nice shots. There was too much noise in a few, so i had to get rid of them, but Neat Image got rid of it pretty well. I took, everything in RAW, so i had a lot of flexibility. Here are 2 of some good ones i took. Thanks again guys for your advice!

[woffles]

You can always shoot a couple at 400 ISO on purpose and convert them to B&W. Gives them kind of a film grain look. Noise Ninja, and Neat Image are two noise reduction programs you can try. They aren't free but will let you work with jpgs and save them but not at their highest quality. Noiseware Community Edition is another one to give a try to.

[Superbaldguy]

Good stuff. If you go to the same venue, time after time, you get to know the lighting. This sort of thing would be impossible with an S-series cam, due to the slow aperture.

[alan_potter]

I recently went along to a local pantomime to take some photos at their dress rehearsal. It wasn't the first show I had ever taken photos of, but it was the first one where there was quite so much dry ice in evidence.

The key learning from that was "dry ice and a powerful flashgun do not work well together" :o

As a general rule - and there are always exceptions - I'd say that performers do not mind flash photos at a dress rehearsal. I say that as one who does perform in musicals when I get the chance.

However, flash does cause the pictures to lose much of their atmosphere by blowing away the work done by the lightig crew - I would recommend varying between flash photos where there is fast movement (eg dancers) and available light for more static scenes.

Some of my stage photos are online at http://www.flickr.com/photos/atp -you may prefer to ignore the collections with large numbers of photos which are there only to provide access to large numbers of photos for company members. The sets with smaller numbers of pictures are where I have selected the decent ones.

I guess a final suggestion would be to take lots of pictures, and be ready to throw many of them away.

regards,
/alan

[lefturn99]

Alan, very nice. I'm inspired.

[alan_potter]

Many thanks!

regards,
/alan