little heater for the camera bag.

[ACDCROCKS]

Hi all.

Winter is coming here in ohio, Technology is growing by the day as the days get colder.. Does any company make a small heater I could put into the camera bag to keep the batteries/equipment warm ???

thanks.

[CoolToolGuy]

I would think carefully about that - if condensation develops you may have a ton of problems.

Consider a separate insulated pouch or bag just for those items that you want to keep warm - then maybe some of the hot/cold gel packs. Or go to the hunting department of a sporting goods store and see what those boys use.

Hope this helps.

Have Fun,

[ACDCROCKS]

thanks

[Tlee05]

to keep the battery life long you could use http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Heart-Hot-Pack-Reusable-Handwarmer-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ7193002368QQcategoryZ310QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem
or some thing along them lines put the battery next to it in a air tight bag and it should keep the heat in it for a while. Just a idea :D

[ACDCROCKS]

to keep the battery life long you could use http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Heart-Hot-Pack-Reusable-Handwarmer-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ7193002368QQcategoryZ310QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem
or some thing along them lines put the battery next to it in a air tight bag and it should keep the heat in it for a while. Just a idea :D

I neversaw that before, interesting, thanks for the ideas.

[robertwgross]

I've never seen that heart-shaped gadget before, but sodium acetate hand warmers are sold in California and most areas where there are ski areas. They generally cost about $4-5 each, and they are very reusable. If you don't put it in the camera bag, then I would put it in the pocket of the photographer for keeping bare fingers functional.

---Bob Gross---

[PhotosGuy]

if condensation develops you may have a ton of problems. Condensation is from cold>warm, not the reverse. I don't think Rick wears glasses in the Winter! ;)
I used to have problems with the end of film breaking off from the cold when loading, so kept a hand warmer in the bag. I double bagged it in the cloth bags that came with it to reduce the chance of too much heat in one place against the film.
You might also consider taping a bag to the bottom of the cam if the cold is too extreme. (In which case, I'd head into the bar!) :D

[75D]

Best thing I found is to keep your bartteries in a shirt pocket close to your body. There won't be a problem with too much heat and they stay ready for use.
As for the camera I just keep mine inside my jacket untill I'm ready to take the shot and put it back there as soon as I have finished.
I winter I only carry the bare essentials for the type of shooting I'm going to be doing.

Wayne

[elTwitcho]

Condensation is from cold>warm, not the reverse.

Wouldn't putting the camera in his warm bag from the outside cold cause a bit of condensation?

Personally I'd just buy an extra battery and keep it in a shirt pocket under your jacket. When the other one gets cold and dies, flip in the warm new one, that should likely last you longer than you would want to stay outside in the cold anyway.

[lostdoggy]

Condensation is from cold>warm, not the reverse. I don't think Rick wears glasses in the Winter! ;)
I used to have problems with the end of film breaking off from the cold when loading, so kept a hand warmer in the bag. I double bagged it in the cloth bags that came with it to reduce the chance of too much heat in one place against the film.
You might also consider taping a bag to the bottom of the cam if the cold is too extreme. (In which case, I'd head into the bar!) :D

Warm air can hold more moisture then cold air. Threfore as the temperature drops the ability for the air to hold moisture decreases causing persipitation. A room dehumidifier works under that principle. Warm air is passed through an evaporator coil chilling air and condensing the moisture.

As for portable heater there are numerous diposable hand warmer available they can be had for less then $0.50 each if you pick them up after the skiing season. They last about 4hours.

Batteries in general will discharge faster in a warm enviroment then in a cold enviroment it is better to store in a cool place then in a warm place.

[PhotosGuy]

Did anyone else misunderstand what I was saying? "Condensation is from cold>warm, not the reverse." Maybe I should have spelled it out as, "Condensation is from going from a cold environment to a warm one, not the reverse when we're talking about taking a cam outside?" A warm cam taken outside where it's cold will not be a problem.

[CoolToolGuy]

Condensation is from cold>warm, not the reverse. I don't think Rick wears glasses in the Winter! ;) :D

If he wants to drive, he does!;)

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was alluded to above - It would not be a good idea to move the camera in/out/in/out of a warm bag in the winter. Plus, it would be difficult to maintain a constant temperature in a bag, which could also encourage condensation. So I maintain that a separate pouch or bag might be a good idea, but not one with everything in it.

Have Fun,

[PhotosGuy]

It would not be a good idea to move the camera in/out/in/out of a warm bag in the winter. Plus, it would be difficult to maintain a constant temperature in a bag, which could also encourage condensation. Moving the cam in/out shouldn't make any difference IF you're outside. The air there has little moisture compared to going inside a building. When you go inside, you should leave the cam in the bag 'till you're sure that it has warmed up enough.
Plus, it would be difficult to maintain a constant temperature in a bag, which could also encourage condensation. As soon as you take the cam out of the bag the first time, the air inside the bag IS the low humidity air from outside. So, no problem with condensation.

[CoolToolGuy]

As soon as you take the cam out of the bag the first time, the air inside the bag IS the low humidity air from outside. So, no problem with condensation.

Well, what happens to the air inside the bag after you close it with the heater inside? And what about all those other lenses that might be in there getting warm/cold/warm/cold?

Thanks, but I'll stick with my theory. Let me know how it goes for you. :)

Have Fun,

[lostdoggy]

Did anyone else misunderstand what I was saying? "Condensation is from cold>warm, not the reverse." Maybe I should have spelled it out as, "Condensation is from going from a cold environment to a warm one, not the reverse when we're talking about taking a cam outside?" A warm cam taken outside where it's cold will not be a problem.

Ok your assumption is that if someone walking from a location that is relatively cold to another location that is relatively warm then conensation will occur on their eye glass. That is true. Boil some water and allow the steam to cool and the stream will condensate. So Now the process will go from warm to cold and it still will condensate.

[PhotosGuy]

Well, what happens to the air inside the bag after you close it with the heater inside? The air gets warmer, yes. But why do you expect that the low humidity air from outside to suddenly pick up water from the air that doesn't have much to start with? Not gonna happen. And what about all those other lenses that might be in there getting warm/cold/warm/cold? Same thing - not a problem. Thanks, but I'll stick with my theory. Let me know how it goes for you. Theory? Not experience? Winter is coming. Test your theory & see if it holds up in practice. I've photographed Winter pics @ 20 below for years without a problem by "When you go inside, you should leave the cam in the bag 'till you're sure that it has warmed up enough. "
So Now the process will go from warm to cold and it still will condensate. Wha? I repeat, "A warm cam taken outside where it's cold will not be a problem."

[primoz]

Since I'm shooting bunch of ski world cup, lot of my shooting is done in winter when it's really cold not just cold :) And I never had problems with this. I put one or two (depends on number of cameras I have with me) spare batteries in inner pocket of my jacket and that's it. It's enough for few hours of shooting since you are actually warming batteries with your body heat. Lenses and cameras on other side, should be out on cold, since you get real problem when you want to shoot with lenses having "fog" (I know there has to be some better word in English for this but no idea at moment what could it be) on glass because of fast change of temperature.

[PhotosGuy]

spare batteries in inner pocket of my jacket and that's it I agree. It's probably OK to keep your batteries there. At least it was for the old, simple ones. Not sure of the complexity of the new 'bricks' that are used for pro video & contain microprocessors.
But I would never keep a lens warm that way because the inner pocket is a micro environment that contains humidity from your body & you will get condensation. That's why a backpack is better for lens & cam storage.

[Curtis N]

Does anyone have actual data on the performance of lithium batteries at various temperatures? I can't help but wonder if we're fretting about this too much.

It should be noted that digital noise (from high ISO or long exposures) is less pronounced at lower temps. Winter seems like the ideal time for astrophotography with digital, but if you try to keep your camera warm, you'd be loosing this advantage.

[PhotosGuy]

Technical article: Mars exploration powered with lithium batteries (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3864/is_200212/ai_n9152840)
After engineering, these are probably distant cousins to what we're using, but it is interesting.

From the Scandia links here (http://as31snlnt.sandia.gov:8101/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=1S30863W3E825.66&menu=search&aspect=basic_search&npp=10&ipp=20&profile=pac&ri=&index=.PG&term=lithium+battery+temperature&x=9&y=12&aspect=basic_search)

Final report of lithium ambient-temperature battery reliability. (http://infoserve.sandia.gov/sand_doc/1987/872119.pdf)
by Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, NM, Jaeger, Calvin Dell, Thomas, Edward Victor
Not something I'd want to wade through!

[elTwitcho]

Ok your assumption is that if someone walking from a location that is relatively cold to another location that is relatively warm then conensation will occur on their eye glass. That is true. Boil some water and allow the steam to cool and the stream will condensate. So Now the process will go from warm to cold and it still will condensate.

Er....

Condensation forms on our cameras because the camera is cold, and in the presence of warm air the air immediately next to the camera becomes colder (due to the cameras temperature) and as this air temperature drops the water in it gets released. Condensation occurs when WARM AIR becomes COLD AIR, but it does not mean going from a warm environment to a cold one will cause condensation. If your camera was made of air, and it cooled outside then yes it would condensate but since it is metal and doesn't hold alot of moisture it does not.

For the purposes of photography, going from cold to warm causes condensation, because we aren't talking about the AIR going from cold to warm, we're talking about the camera (which is cold) coming into a warm environment (which is warm) and causing the air on the surfaces of the camera to cool (condense).

Make a bit more sense now?

[ACDCROCKS]

Since I'm shooting bunch of ski world cup, lot of my shooting is done in winter when it's really cold not just cold :) And I never had problems with this. I put one or two (depends on number of cameras I have with me) spare batteries in inner pocket of my jacket and that's it. It's enough for few hours of shooting since you are actually warming batteries with your body heat. Lenses and cameras on other side, should be out on cold, since you get real problem when you want to shoot with lenses having "fog" (I know there has to be some better word in English for this but no idea at moment what could it be) on glass because of fast change of temperature.

Condensation I think. wrong word, fog makes sense, we all understand what your saying, main point.

[lostdoggy]

Er....

Condensation forms on our cameras because the camera is cold, and in the presence of warm air the air immediately next to the camera becomes colder (due to the cameras temperature) and as this air temperature drops the water in it gets released. Condensation occurs when WARM AIR becomes COLD AIR, but it does not mean going from a warm environment to a cold one will cause condensation. If your camera was made of air, and it cooled outside then yes it would condensate but since it is metal and doesn't hold alot of moisture it does not.

For the purposes of photography, going from cold to warm causes condensation, because we aren't talking about the AIR going from cold to warm, we're talking about the camera (which is cold) coming into a warm environment (which is warm) and causing the air on the surfaces of the camera to cool (condense).

Make a bit more sense now?

Unless your camera is sealed and the cavity of it as an internal pressure 29"hg then it will contain air. In most instances the indoor relative humidity at 72deg f is around 50%. If you were to walk outside where the temperature is say 10deg f, the air inside the camera will persipitate. Will you notice it, most likely not since the quantity of water is so minute.

[hobotraveler]

Hello, I am normally in the tropics and now am staying in air conditioned rooms. I have severe problems here in Thailand when I grab my small backpack and leave the room. I do not carry a camera bag, too easy to know I have a camera and get robbed. I am trying a new experiment, I am putting a 25 Watt light bulb in a glass or steel cup, then placing the what is now like a treble light inside the bag. I think the 25 watt bulb will keep the bag warm with the camera inside, when I leave the room the bag, the batteries, and other items will be warm. I think this will work for the cold weather battery problem, but I think the camera needs to be cold in colder climates to stop the condesation problem. I am more or less making the camera stay warm, to enter the outside temperature of Thailand.

Andy of HoboTraveler.com in Bangkok, Thailand