It Works! But Why?

[Timbre]

I have never been able to get a print that is even close to the on-screen image. I have as much invested in printing my photos as shooting them and far, far more time and frustration.

By accident, after profiling my monitor for the (?) time, I saved several Tiffs in PS7 using my new monitor color profile instead of the usual Adobe 1998 or sRGB.

When I used QImage Pro with my Canon i950 printer set to "ICM" to print these images, I was so shocked I almost cried. They were so close to the on-screen image I almost couldn't tell the difference. What a shock after so many hours spent in frustration and dollars spent in failure. As a further test, I opened other similar images that had the Adobe 1998 profile assigned and got the usual dismal match when I tried to print. I then used PS7 to assign my monitor profile to these same images instead of Adobe 1998 and Yes, perfect match again. So far I have tried two dozen past failures and the results are just as good.

I don't want to ruin a good thing, but why does this work? It really shouldn't, right? A monitor color profile is not designed as a print profile? Adobe 1998 should produce the best possible prints, right?

For the record, my monitor profile will be my new print profile until I learn more or something better comes along. I'm just curious and wanted to share this in case someone else is on the print merry-go-round.
Thanks.

Timbre.

[slejhamer]

Timbre -- for a "closed system" meaning you do your prints in house, there is really no problem with what you are doing. Heck, if you use the same monitor profile and get acceptable prints from a lab, even better. Maybe there will be a slight clipping of some colors, but you probably won't notice.

The color management gurus will likely tell you otherwise, and that a monitor profile is not a working space, blah blah blah, but if you are getting acceptable prints, so what?!

Unless you are converting your RAW files to linear tiff or can assign AdobeRGB in-camera (as the 10D can,) you will not really get the benefit of using a wider gamut color space anyway. Think about it: if your camera's native color space is sRGB, and then you convert to AdobeRGB, have you added colors or hues? No. I was doing that and ultimately realized the futility (with some thoughtful suggestions from Roger Cavanagh on this site) and have greatly simplified my color management workflow.

What might be better is if you could profile your printer and convert to that instead of your monitor space, just in case your monitor space clips colors. That is what I now do - convert to printer space and then use ICM to print - and it works like a charm. Honestly though, I have tried converting to my profiled monitor space, and the prints look pretty good too!

Oh, you asked "But Why?" Well, it's simple, really. First, you are printing from ICC-compliant apps such as PS or Qimage, so they will display things as you have told your monitor to display them via calibration. Next, by using ICM, you are now telling your printer to print the same way the monitor is displaying the images, which is also the way the ICC-compliant apps are displaying them. Everything should look the same. It's a nice, simple system that makes life easy. :)

Thanks for your post.

[Timbre]

Mitch,

The way you explain it makes it perfectly clear. I forgot my camera's native color space is actually less than Adobe 1998. It would be like saving a Jpeg to Tiff. Why bother? Right?

slejhamer wrote:
What might be better is if you could profile your printer and convert to that instead of your monitor space, just in case your monitor space clips colors. That is what I now do - convert to printer space and then use ICM to print - and it works like a charm.


Now, THIS is exciting!:)

How do I profile my printer? I looked for a Canon ICC profile installed with my printer that may apply to the i950 and can't find anything new. The owner's manual has nothing about color space, ICC, profile, etc.

I'm sorry to bounce this back again but I am intrigued.
Thank You!

Timbre

[slejhamer]

Timbre wrote:

How do I profile my printer? I looked for a Canon ICC profile installed with my printer that may apply to the i950 and can't find anything new. The owner's manual has nothing about color space, ICC, profile, etc.



I took the easy way out - I have an Epson printer, and the company is kind enough to supply their profiles, not just for their printers but for each of their papers too! :)

But with a modest investment in some profiling software, you should be able to profile your printer easily.

First, try these spots to see if they already have stock profiles for your printer:
Profile City (www.profilecity.com)
Inkjet Mall (www.inkjetmall.com)
Chromix (www.chromix.com).

If not, try one of these:
http://www.ddisoftware.com/prism/about.htm
http://www.monacosys.com/monacoezcolor.html
http://www.colorvision.com/store/print_gpu125.shtml

Best of luck!

[perfectpixel]

I took the easy way out - I have an Epson printer, and the company is kind enough to supply their profiles
I have an epson 870 but no profiles. Where did you get the epson profiles? I was going to Email them (who?) until I saw your post!
thnaks

[slejhamer]

unstuck:

I can't remember exactly where I found them, but try here:

http://photoexpert.epson.co.uk/UK/PRODUCTS/icc_download.htm


I don't see the 870 (or the 780 for that matter) but some of these might be compatible. Do a google search and you might find them more easily.

[john_houghton]

unstuck wrote:
I have an epson 870 but no profiles.
Are you sure they are not on the installation CD? There are 1270 profiles listed at the bottom of this page:
http://www.rgbnet.co.uk/ilyons/ps7_print/ps7_print_win_1.htm
The note suggests that they came on the CD, so I would think the 870 is similar. The profiles may be virtually the same anyway.

John

[perfectpixel]

well here's where my ignorance will show...

Are you sure they are not on the installation CD? There are 1270 profiles listed at the bottom of this page:
http://www.rgbnet.co.uk/ilyons/ps7_print/ps7_print_win_1.htm
The note suggests that they came on the CD, so I would think the 870 is similar. The profiles may be virtually the same anyway.

I'll check to see if they are there. I downloaded from that link just incase anyway. Would this have been something that would have automatically installed from the CD? Maybe I already have them and am to dumb to know it. The screenshots from the print properties dialog box look exactly like what I have (including the color managemet set, item 6) So I'm thinking they are already there and I don't know how to use them.

After 18 months of digital picture manipulations I am only now learning about the importance of the color space. Any help and points to links would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

[john_houghton]

unstuck wrote:
After 18 months of digital picture manipulations I am only now learning about the importance of the color space. Any help and points to links would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

The profiles, if loaded on your machine, will probably be in the directory \windows\system32\spool\drivers\color and the file names will start SP870, I would think. The rest of the file name relates to the paper type (GF=Glossy Film etc). But these names don't appear in Photoshop's print space profile list - there's a more descriptive title embedded within the profile.

I suggest you read the 870/1270 review by Ian Lyons at http://www.computer-darkroom.com/epson1270/epson1270.htm

John

[Timbre]

Mitch gave me lots of homework and it has paid off! Thanks Mitch, et. all!

I ended up at www.cathysprofiles.com for what so far seems to be a fantastic printer profile for just my printer and the paper I use. This is a very personalized approach as, according to Cathy, manufacturing tolerances vary so much from printer to printer even when the models are identical. This is why a "canned" profile may not address every printer with perfection. So far, my colors have been more vivid and accurate than ever before from my i950 but the testing continues.

First knee-jerk reaction to my personal printer profile from Cathy? Wow. Already well worth the $40 and the TLC Cathy offers. If you print, you must have a personal profile.


T.