Indoor team portrait question

[jsanz11]

Ok guys...I'm a beginning photographer and a very small private school asked me to do a few sports photos for some baskeetball teams. I have a canon rebel xt but what kind of flash or umbrella do i need? The pictures will be taken in a low lit gym. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
-Joey

[LMP]

I'm not able to specifically list your needs but some pretty fast glass wouldn't go amiss if the light is poor, also you could do worse than have a search on some of the recent threads from 'gmen' . IIRC there have been one or two BB threads recently.

[ACDCROCKS]

Canon 85MM 1.4, 85MM 1.8, 50MM 1.8....Cnaon 85mm 1.2 isn't directly for sports though

[tim]

All the gear in the world won't help without the understanding of how to use it.

Often in sports photography you're not allowed to use a flash. In that case the only good an umbrella will do is to keep you dry. Even if you are allowed a flash I wouldn't bother with umberllas for sports, you need all the power you can get, and an umbrella wastes some of it.

You're better off with wide aperture lenses like ACDC recommended, though i'm not sure what lens you'll need for basketball. F2.8 lenses are the slowest i'd consider, faster (eg F1.8) is better.

[robertwgross]

First of all, we have to ask this question:

Team photos and player photos, or basketball action photos?

---Bob Gross---

[jsanz11]

TEAM & player photos not action...that's why i asked about the umbrella...or if i should use a speed lite.
-joey

[tim]

There are any number of ways to do individual and group portraits, you'll be better off buying a good book on the subject rather than getting disjointed advice here. I can't recommend a specific book for this subject sorry.

[jsanz11]

i'm just asking for a lighting tip...i've taken plenty of outdoor team and invididual photography before...never indoor...that's the problem

[tim]

Get as big a light as you can, stick it on a light stand and put the camera underneath it, meter it, take the photo. Add an umbrella if you like. If you're using a speedlite I don't think it'd have the power to bounce from an umbrella onto a large group.

[jsanz11]

tim,
would the b400 be enough u think? and where exactly would you place the umbrella? flash thru umbrella ore reflect off of silver or white? sorry for all the questions i'm just very new to this and enjoy learning...
-joey

[tim]

I'm no expert joey, there are some experts around here though so hopefully they'll help out. I've renamed the thread to get more useful replies.

What i'd do, and plan to do for my next wedding if I have time, is to put my B800 on a big stand, way up in the air, shining into a silver umbrella, which will point at the group. I might not bother with the umbrella. The light has to go directly above the camera, otherwise some peoples faces will be in shadow (I learned this one the hard way). You could choose to use a white reflective umbrella or a shoot thru umbrella, I suspect the shoot-thru will be less efficient and not so go with a B400. Get a big umbrella, though i've read that umbrella size isn't worth worrying over too much.

A B400 should be fine, it still puts out a LOT more light than a speedlite. For $55 you can upgrade any B400 in a package to a B800, if you like.

[jsanz11]

Thanks,
You seem to reply alot and be pretty active on the board. I didn't know u were the moderator till just now. I think i'm going to try that Beginner Bee Kit. I hope it does me good. I just don't want a big shadow coming out in the background know what imean?

OH and thanks for changing the topic and moving it to the lighting section...i thought i was a sports topic but u're right about thelighting topic hehe
-joey

[tim]

You're welcome to my advice, for what it's worth ;) I'm learning, just like everyone else here.

What do you mean by "a big shadow coming out in the background"? With one light like this everyone in the photo should be well lit, and if you leave some space between the team and the background the background should be a bit darker than the team, which IMHO is good.

A flash meter would be a "nice to have", without one you'll just have to take a few test shots and watch the histogram to get the exposure right. Shoot in M mode btw, 1/125th of a second. If you want to learn more grab the studio lighting book from http://lightingmagic.com , it's excellent and starts from the beginning.

[robertwgross]

If your main light is a couple of feet higher than the camera and centered directly over the lens, then that is a good idea. If you have the main light significantly to one side or the other, then you will have side shadows. In that case, you have to think about a second light.

---Bob Gross---

[jsanz11]

thanks guys,
This is how customer supprot at busy bee's told me to place a 2 umbrella setup...the b800's is what was recomended
Group

XXXXXXXX

XXXXX



X X

Flash Flash

X

Camera
One more question...what type of lens is best suitable for this? should i just use the 18-55mm lens my rebel came with? thanks for the help guys
-joey

[kawter2]

thanks guys,
This is how customer supprot at busy bee's told me to place a 2 umbrella setup...the b800's is what was recomended
Group

XXXXXXXX

XXXXX



X X

Flash Flash

X

Camera
One more question...what type of lens is best suitable for this? should i just use the 18-55mm lens my rebel came with? thanks for the help guys
-joey


If you are using b800's you should get SUPER shots with your 18-55.. Base your flash exposure around your aperture of f8

[tim]

Even if you have three lights (one left, one right, one centre) you still get shadows behind the group, and you can get different levels of light falling on different peoples faces. I think one light is definitely the way to go.

[kawter2]

Even if you have three lights (one left, one right, one centre) you still get shadows behind the group, and you can get different levels of light falling on different peoples faces. I think one light is definitely the way to go.

I disagree.. For 1-2 prople i would be with you, but i think in his situation he needs the stage to be ballanced

I vote 2 lights

[jsanz11]

I figured it would take he 2 light as well...wish itwas just one since the price for 2 lights will be pretty pricey...more affordable for one but i may have to go for the 2 light setup
if anyone else has any comments or suggestions...it all could help
thanks,
-joey

[kawter2]

I figured it would take he 2 light as well...wish itwas just one since the price for 2 lights will be pretty pricey...more affordable for one but i may have to go for the 2 light setup
if anyone else has any comments or suggestions...it all could help
thanks,
-joey


I dont think you need 2 lights to light the scene, heck you could do it with a Speedlight it you needed to.. The only thing is that when you light dispursed that wide will not be as soft and because you are using one light w/a huge subject, causing the relative size of the light to be much smaller

also, using 1 light you will need to put it near the center of the frame to keep RT to LT lighting ballanced. doing that will wash out your scene IMO

[tim]

I disagree.. For 1-2 prople i would be with you, but i think in his situation he needs the stage to be ballanced

I vote 2 lights

The reason I recommend this is because it's simple, easy, and foolproof. I learned the hard way that if you use three lights with a large group then there will be people getting more light than others, with some very bright and some in deap shadow, especially if it's an ad-hoc arrangement. If I could use two lights, like I do for individuals or small groups, I would.

Try it out first if you can, watch for it after you take your shots, and remember the one light solution if things go bad.

[kong]

Ok, here goes my 2 cents.. We do teams for basketball, gymnastics indoors. Lighting consists of one 400 or 800 behind the camera, 2-3 feet above with a Large soft box or umbrella. One light for the background. Keep the people away from the background and fire away, never have shadow problems. ?? give it a try??

[jsanz11]

2 lights one light how many lights haha... i may just do the 1 light because of my budget ...i may not use a background though...i was thinking of placing the team at center court and using the basket in one end of the floor as the background...would the umbrella cause too much shadow?
-joey
what lens would u recomend me using?

[jsanz11]

Kong,
do you have a website?
-Joey

[kawter2]

2 lights one light how many lights haha... i may just do the 1 light because of my budget ...i may not use a background though...i was thinking of placing the team at center court and using the basket in one end of the floor as the background...would the umbrella cause too much shadow?
-joey
what lens would u recomend me using?

Use the 18-55 w/ at least f8. it wil be fine!

[jsanz11]

THanks guys i appreciate all the help...i'm new to the indoor stuff...i do outdoor action photography...check out my website when u get a chance
www.ltxsports.com
Thanks,
-Joey