Help! What Am I Doing Wrong??

[reneefk]

I thought I was getting the hang of this, I got some really good pictures of the kids in the past. But no matter what I did today I could not get an even semi-decent picture.
I have a Canon Rebel T3i.

We were at the pumpkin patch. It was 4pm, still light outside but also over-cast. Was trying to get a picture of the kid on a pony ride which was under one of those open-sided sun cover-tents.

Exposure level was jumping all over the place, when I did get it dead center, and even on the side of over-exposed, the pictures still came out dark! In some instances everything under the tent was dark, but outside the tent was bright and clear.

In hindsight maybe instead of manual, I should of used AV or TV? But I really want to learn to use manual.

[reneefk]

Here is an example of one of the pictures, on top of it all they were blurry too..nice. The pics where she got close to me she is literally just a dark shadow.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af101/renefk909/IMG_1518.jpg

[windpig]

First thing to consider is that you were shooting at F16, ergo a very low shutter speed, even at 1600 ISO. Shooting this at F5.6 and ISO 400 would have gotten you a shutter speed of 1/125.

The second thing is that you have your metering in an evaluative mode. It is overcompensating for the bright background outside of the tent, underexposing the subject. For me, I would have shot this using spot metering and metered her gray sweater placing the meter at zero, then hit the exposure lock button, recomposed and taken the shot. AV or TV would having given you similar results as what you got because it would have the same evaluative metering issue.

I strongly recommend reading a little on metering, exposure and exposure compensation. Partial metering would probably have been a better mode, especially in this lighting, because it evaluates an area around the center focus point, there by taking the background illumination out of the equation. This photo properly exposed for the subject would have the background way overexposed.

[Paolo.Leviste]

^ What windpig said. As soon as you see the background being more properly exposed than the subject, you can likely know that you'll check your metering.

[crn3371]

Dark subject meets bright background. Spot metering on the subject would have correctly exposed your subject, but also would have blown out the background. Another option in cases like this would be to use fill flash. The camera exposes for the background and the flash illuminates your subject.

[digital paradise]

Yep your shutter was 1/30. You are going to get motion blur at that shutter speed. As mentioned f16 was not the best choice. At f5.6, even 4 or faster the background would have been more blurry because it is not all interesting.

Your meter actually did a good job balancing out this image. Only problem is it decided what to balance which left your subjects dark.

As mentioned metering on the subjects would have made all the difference however the background would have been blown out. I would have metered the background the way it is in your original shot and used a flash. Actually just using evaluative metering in manual or AV and a flash would have done a decent job here.

[reneefk]

Thanks everyone. That makes sense.
Those weren't the settings I started with. I forgot at that point I had cranked up the iso (I had started at 200) and changed it to f/16. I was getting frustrated at that point which wasn't helping.
I am working my way through "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson right now.

[digital paradise]

Just wanted to add a blown out background in this situation is not the end of the world. Correct subject exposure is primary and if I did not have flash I would sacrifice the background to get the shot.

[digital paradise]

Thanks everyone. That makes sense.
Those weren't the settings I started with. I forgot at that point I had cranked up the iso (I had started at 200) and changed it to f/16. I was getting frustrated at that point which wasn't helping.
I am working my way through "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson right now.

Join the club. When I went to my first air show I got so excited I thought I put my shutter speed to 1600 but it was actually my ISO :D.

[Paolo.Leviste]

If you were getting frustrated at first, it may be because your ISO was too low in the first place. But, making a smaller fstop just compounded your problem.

Letting more light in = higher ISO, but lower fstop.

[sticknpuck]

A good thing to do for a while is to put the camera into P or auto made take a bucnh of shots in varying situations and then look at the exif info for how the camera decided to expose each shot. You can use this as a kind of baseline and then experiment on your own.

Good luck!

[reneefk]

Now that you mention the background, I don't know why I choose to stand facing the parking lot..when I could of been facing the pumpkin patch. I might have to go back and try again. She loves the pony ride and I really wanted to get a cute pic of her. I should of admitted defeat and put it on auto.

[reneefk]

A good thing to do for a while is to put the camera into P or auto made take a bucnh of shots in varying situations and then look at the exif info for how the camera decided to expose each shot. You can use this as a kind of baseline and then experiment on your own.

Good luck!

That is a really good idea, thanks!

[digital paradise]

You were focusing on the family. However even facing the parking lot a shallow DOF would have still made it a more interesting shot. A lot to think about isn't it? You ever read the wedding forums "Help I have to shoot a wedding next week because me friend knows I have a nice camera" or they are trying to save money. People who do not understand photography have no clue about the pressure they can put on friends and family members. There is no second chance.

[reneefk]

Oh wow. I can't imagine. I just do this for myself because I enjoy it. It is pure hobby which takes the pressure off. The picture is actually of the lil one I watch (I have had her and her older brother since they were 3 months old). Their parents work a lot and it is fun to share pictures with them, I know they appreciate it.
I got some nice ones over the summer of them playing in water/at the park, etc. I mean, they look good to me..I'm sure if I posted them, the experienced people here could find flaws in them that I don't see. :P
That is why I was so surprised today though, it was the first time I just couldn't get it to work no matter what I did.

[tonylong]

Well, you faced the classical "high dynamic range scene challenge"!

If you wanted to keep some of the background detail preserved, then you did as well as you could. Boosting the shadows in post-processing will help. Shooting Raw will be a benefit.

In the future, just realize that these scenes will be challenging. A flash will help a lot -- you can actually lower the brightness of the background while providing light to the subjects.

But when you can, get the subjects in better light!

[SOK]

In hindsight maybe instead of manual, I should of used AV or TV? But I really want to learn to use manual.

Shooting mode does not matter.

Well, you faced the classical "high dynamic range scene challenge"!

This is the only answer you need. Study up on Dynamic Range...and you'll understand that no shooting/metering mode will yield a normalised exposure of this scene.

In these circumstances you can add fill light, change your position, let the background blow out, or better yet....

get the subjects in better light!

[Veemac]

...I should of admitted defeat and put it on auto.
Auto most likely would have given similar results if you used evaluative metering - it would evaluate the whole scene and expose for the background, leaving your subject in the dark. It may have chosen a faster shutter speed (thus eliminating motion blur), but you probably still would have had an underexposed subject unless you moved close to your daughter and the horse, metered on them and then used AE Lock to hold the exposure while you moved back and took the picture...or used spot metering.

[SkipD]

Thanks everyone. That makes sense.
Those weren't the settings I started with. I forgot at that point I had cranked up the iso (I had started at 200) and changed it to f/16. I was getting frustrated at that point which wasn't helping.
I am working my way through "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson right now.What you really need to do (and the Understanding Exposure book is a fair start) is to truly learn the basics of photographic exposure metering and control.

There are MANY situations where the camera's meter, coupled with the camera's automation, is simply horrible. Backlit scenes such as the example above are among the worst to try to do with ANY automation in the camera.

My very strong suggestion for you, assuming you really want to learn the basics, is to turn off all of the automation in the camera. Turn the exposure mode dial to "M". Use the camera's light meter if you wish, but you'd be better off with a handheld light meter. Read and analyse the light in a scene and choose the ISO, shutter speed, and f-stop that you want to use. Make an exposure, documenting the settings and WHY you chose those settings. Analyze the exposure and determine if you did well or if you need to improve. If you need to improve, repeat the entire cycle using the very same scene but with different exposure choices. Remember to document everything including why you chose the settings. You will learn the basics very quickly this way.

[boingy]

Mostly everyone here helped answer your question. Basically if I was in your situation this is what I would have done.

Assuming you're using a 18-55 IS kit lens.

Settings before shooting would be AWB, RAW, spot metering, AI servo (using back button focusnig) and manual. You could use AV/TV it really don't matter, but I prefer M.

I would then zoom in focus and meter off something within the scene. Maybe the child's face or shirt, EC if I feel necessary (but you can always chimp). Adjust apeture, ss and ISO accordingly to be within exposure range. Making sure ss is fast enough to freeze motion and then adjust the f/stop accordingly and increasing ISO as much as necessary. Once everything is in place I would refocus, recompose as needed, frame the way I want and take the shot. Then I would chimp as needed to nail the right exposure. Then keep taking more shots and check my shots here and there to make sure I'm hitting the right exposure. I would assume parts of the background will be blownout, unless you use fill flash, which in that case would change things.

Go home and do quick pp in LR3 and I'm done. Also since I'm shooting RAW I have more to work with.

[reneefk]

I didn't expect to get so many great tips..I love this board! I know I said it like ten times already, but thank you, I am learning so much!

[guntoter]

Dark subject meets bright background. Spot metering on the subject would have correctly exposed your subject, but also would have blown out the background. Another option in cases like this would be to use fill flash. The camera exposes for the background and the flash illuminates your subject.

I agree. My first thought when I saw the pic was that my 580 II would have lighted up the subjects without blowing out the highlights.

[tonylong]

Just for fun and maybe some thought:

Yesterday some visitors came by to take my daughter out to coffee -- a mother and daughter, the mom had been friends with my daughter for 20 years.

I made a spur-of-the-moment decision to grab my camera and get some quick shots before they dashed off.

Now, the funny thing is that I had been messing around with my camera (5D Classic) following some POTN threads, and had it set to Av instead of Manual. Now I had thought that I was using Evaluative instead of Spot, again for testing, but as I've been putting this post together I discovered that the Exif says Spot! Hmm. But anyway, because I wanted to move quickly I thought "what the heck", set my ISO to 400 because the light was pretty dim, got them ready and began shooting.

For my first couple shots, the white car was clipping, but they were just setup shots:

http://www.pbase.com/tonylong/image/139017372/original.jpg

So I had to dial in a bit of negative EC then I changed position and got a little group shot, still with the negative EC.

So this first shot is what happened, not so pretty, but you can see that the metering "tried", but between the white car and then my negative EC, well:

http://www.pbase.com/image/139016661/original.jpg

Fortunately it was Raw and had enough "Raw materials" to work with:

http://www.pbase.com/tonylong/image/138986378/original.jpg

Now the interesting thing is that a few shots later, still with the -EC dialed in, this is the exposure the camera spat out:

http://www.pbase.com/tonylong/image/138994895/original.jpg

Interestingly, changing the camera from horizontal to vertical made the metering significantly change its mind, and really, it's close to what I would have done in Manual!

In fact, after some processing and a close crop, it also produced a nice mother-daughter "portrait":

http://www.pbase.com/tonylong/image/138994894/original.jpg

So, what's my point? I dunno, except that it was one of those scenes that show how shooting in outdoor daylight scenes can be tricky, and it's good to keep an eye on things and be ready to adjust things on-the-fly, and even then there is no sure thing, meaning that shooting in Raw can really help with the final result!

Well, I hope you can have some fun at my expense:)!

[SOK]

So, what's my point? I dunno

Tony that would normally be Title Fairy worthy...although in your case I'm not sure if it beats your current title!!

[tonylong]

Tony that would normally be Title Fairy worthy...although in your case I'm not sure if it beats your current title!!

Heh! That's funny, I gotta say:)!

[reneefk]

loved the story and the pictures :)

[tonylong]

loved the story and the pictures :)

Well, thanks, except I prefer to be more wide-awake and prepared for shooting photos in challenging light rather than doing such on-the-fly stuff!

But maybe there is something interesting for someone in there:)!