Another website question.Prophoto4, zenfolio, smumug or ...?Which shall I choose?

[tommmy.star]

Hi everyone,

I am here in the UK and I really want a website. I like the idea of prohoto4 and their templates. You can customize it quite a lot and very often they come as layered psd files so there is a lot of room to play. For prophoto I would need a domain+hosting=goDaddy.
Do I need my own domain and hosting with zenfolio or smumug?
Why would you choose zenfolio/smugmug over prophoto4?
And last but not least how long did it take you to set up your own website?

Thanks for replies

[on2rails]

I don't have any knowledge of prohoto4 but going by what you mentioned:

I have had both Sumgmug and Zenfolio -
I use Zenfolio currently, but only for the gallery portion and I do use the partnership they have with Mpix for prints for my customers. My main page is something I created and host on a separate domain, but one would never know the difference, as I made the gallery pages in Zenfilio to match my theme on my separate main page.

No, you do not have to have a separate domain for either Sumgmug or Zenfolio and they too have templates that you can use to create a main page as well as make matching galleries. You can have a separate domain name and point that to your Zenfolio (again no one would know the difference) or as I have, point your gallery links from your main page to the Zen galleries themselves.

If you were to just use the Zenfolio templates and not have a separate main page and domain, depending on how picky you are with your own work, have it done in a matter of minutes. When I first did the trial, I had it set up in just a few minutes. This of course, not including the photo upload times.

See Joey Ricard Photography (http://jricard.com)

[mmcguire]

I like Smugmug myself, but I have never used the other sites you mentioned. I matched a Wordpress install with my Smugmug account.

My Site (http://mattmcguire.com)

[aIpha]

ProPhoto is basically a wordpress template+plugin that allows you to customize your site as little or as much as you want. If you want the 100% flexibility, then this is the way to go.

I've personally not used either SmugMug or Zenfolio but looking at their features, it does look like both services allow you to customize your site (depending on the service package) but not allow you to bring your own design. Although, it looks like SmugMug allows you to hire one of their approved designers if you want to have a completely unique look.

[ceegee]

I tried both Zenfolio and Smugmug (they both offer free trial periods), and chose to stay with Zenfolio. I have no programming capabilities, and it was a lot easier for me to get a site I liked with Zenfolio than with Smugmug. Basic customization is very easy. It took me no more than an hour to set up a satisfactory structure, using one of the Zenfolio templates but putting in my own custom headings and pages. It's a very intuitive process, even for computer illiterates like me. I've also been pleased with their customer service - very quick and thorough.

[mmcguire]

I've personally not used either SmugMug or Zenfolio but looking at their features, it does look like both services allow you to customize your site (depending on the service package) but not allow you to bring your own design. Although, it looks like SmugMug allows you to hire one of their approved designers if you want to have a completely unique look.

Smugmug lets you customize the site all you want and if you have the knowledge there is no need to hire anyone. I customized almost everything on mattmcguire.com (http://mattmcguire.com) myself.

[aIpha]

Smugmug lets you customize the site all you want and if you have the knowledge there is no need to hire anyone. I customized almost everything on mattmcguire.com (http://mattmcguire.com) myself.

Your site is setup a little different. You have your TLD hosted at WiredTree running wordpress then you have a subdomain pointed to SmugMug to take advantage of their photo gallery. Or at least that is what it looks like.

SmugMug's site does say this:
Choose a SmugMug-approved design firm for a truly stunning site
I just wasn't sure why designs needed to be "approved" by SmugMug to be used with their service.

[Hikin Mike]

Your site is setup a little different. You have your TLD hosted at WiredTree running wordpress then you have a subdomain pointed to SmugMug to take advantage of their photo gallery. Or at least that is what it looks like.

SmugMug's site does say this:

I just wasn't sure why designs needed to be "approved" by SmugMug to be used with their service.

You don't have to. A 'Smugmug-Approved Designer' knows how to customize a Smugmug site, for a price. Your basically hiring a web designer that specializes on Smugmug sites. ;)

[aIpha]

You don't have to. A 'Smugmug-Approved Designer' knows how to customize a Smugmug site, for a price. Your basically hiring a web designer that specializes on Smugmug sites. ;)

Ah I gotcha. So the designer must understand SmugMug's framework. Sort of like designers that specialize in designing sites for wordpress. Makes sense.

[Hikin Mike]

Ah I gotcha. So the designer must understand SmugMug's framework. Sort of like designers that specialize in designing sites for wordpress. Makes sense.

Yep. I believe an approved designer can modify a few things (like removing the stock footer) that a regular user can't.

[Marlfox]

Yep. I believe an approved designer can modify a few things (like removing the stock footer) that a regular user can't.


Any regular user can do anything a smugmug approved designer can. I removed the stock footer on mine.

All you need is a knowledge of CSS+ and you can do pretty much anything you want to. The approved designers are just a list of people smugmug trust, who cahrge you a premium to do it (think they were charging $400-500 for a custom site last time I looked). It's easy to go that route, tell them what you want and wait a week with no work, but nothing you can't figure out yourself.

I got my site about 90% of the way done just following simple tutorials on dgrinn.com, then the rest was a feq ebooks and google searches.

[Hikin Mike]

Any regular user can do anything a smugmug approved designer can. I removed the stock footer on mine.

All you need is a knowledge of CSS+ and you can do pretty much anything you want to. The approved designers are just a list of people smugmug trust, who cahrge you a premium to do it (think they were charging $400-500 for a custom site last time I looked). It's easy to go that route, tell them what you want and wait a week with no work, but nothing you can't figure out yourself.

I got my site about 90% of the way done just following simple tutorials on dgrinn.com, then the rest was a feq ebooks and google searches.

I thought that was against the "rules". I don't have it on my SM site because it was grandfathered in.

EDIT: Read this: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=58528

[Marlfox]

I thought that was against the "rules". I don't have it on my SM site because it was grandfathered in.

EDIT: Read this: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=58528

I stand corrected....never read that before.

*runs off to delete some code*

[cameronrad]

Check out 22slides. I made my site with it.
www.22slides.com

[tete]

I was going to recommend 22slides.com as well. I recently set up a Zenfolio account, a week ago but must say I am not impressed. I went with the premium and to be honest its just not for me. I have designed my own site before / not foto related. I find Zenfolio a little primitive in terms ofhow the feature set works. I will ask for a refund and go with 22slides.com. It just has a very simple and minimalistic apoproach but comes off more refined for some reason. Its probably just me tho. Also 22 slides cost a wee bit more.

[acevesf]

ProPhot 4 no doubt!

[mmcguire]

Your site is setup a little different. You have your TLD hosted at WiredTree running wordpress then you have a subdomain pointed to SmugMug to take advantage of their photo gallery. Or at least that is what it looks like.


That is accurate. The subdomain was customized to look like the Wordpress portions. I did it myself and did not need to pay a designer or get an approved design.

[medicdude]

I've been with smugmug for three years and am in te process of switching to Zenfolio. I really like the UI and customization better. And it's cheaper!

[travsirocz]

I use Prophoto with Wordpress on Bluehost and Smugmug as my proofing gallery and checkout. I highly recommend Prophoto.

http://www.dewitzphotography.com

[TeleFragger]

I use Prophoto with Wordpress on Bluehost and Smugmug as my proofing gallery and checkout. I highly recommend Prophoto.

http://www.dewitzphotography.com

dude.. nice site.. i like how it all streams together... i would not have known you had all that going on.... really nice...

[aIpha]

I use Prophoto with Wordpress on Bluehost and Smugmug as my proofing gallery and checkout. I highly recommend Prophoto.

http://www.dewitzphotography.com

Very nice!

Big fan of sites like this where the photos just pops out at you and information/prices are well organized. Didn't take me long to find some prices for your service. If I were a client that is one of the top things I'd want to see. I don't like sites that say "call us for prices".

[Joergeske]

Profoto offers a ton more customization, but with a ton of extra expense and a huge gap that still needs filled. Zenfolio and Smugmug allow for client ordering and access pages that are seamless and you can pick the prices and products available. You also have a ton more backend support and ease of use is unequaled. I think you will find that at somepoint you almost need both.

Personally I went the build my own site approach and could never get a result that I liked, then I tried to build a site with zenfolio as it's backend, but that failed, and now I am just using zen + a blog. Works well, but sure I would love to be able to do layouts like profoto offers, but I wouldn't give up all the free money I get from print ordering from family members and friends of my clients.

[Bob_A]

I had close to zero experience with HTML/CSS when I upgraded to a Smugmug Power User account, but the folks on DGrin and the Smugmug customization examples were pretty helpful. Mines not very unique, but for a non-pro site I'm happy with the result:

http://bobanderson.smugmug.com/

Now I just have to take better photos :)

Also, I'd recommend avoiding the use of Flash for your site.

[rhommel]

I use all of them :)

prophoto4: http://torontophotographer.net - My blog
zenfolio: http://clients.torontophotographer.net - I use it for client proofing
smugmug: http://rhommelphotography.net - I don't even use this anymore.. more of a storage for me :)

IMHO, if you want to do a bit of SEO, then I would suggest on using prophoto (it's more expensive, but worth it, i think)

[new girl on the bloc]

I use Prophoto with Wordpress on Bluehost and Smugmug as my proofing gallery and checkout. I highly recommend Prophoto.

http://www.dewitzphotography.com

the dogs on your site are beautiful; so photogenic!

[new girl on the bloc]

I use all of them :)

prophoto4: http://torontophotographer.net - My blog
zenfolio: http://clients.torontophotographer.net - I use it for client proofing
smugmug: http://rhommelphotography.net - I don't even use this anymore.. more of a storage for me :)

IMHO, if you want to do a bit of SEO, then I would suggest on using prophoto (it's more expensive, but worth it, i think)

the wedding photo on the beach is sexy! nice.

[mtimber]

Smugmug:

Pros:

Good customization.
Fairly good forum support.
Does what it claims to do.

Cons:

No printing facilities outside the US.
Won't let you change the emoticon to your own branding.
Insist on their footer on the bottom of your page.
Very poor customer service when dealing with individual problems:

I had a log in page for a client gallery that had some really messy html around it. Nothing I could change, a fault on Smugmugs end.

When I reported it, first they insisted it was a "browser issue".

Then as I pushed it, they realised that was not the case.

They then insisted that they were going to fix it "when they had time" as they had a backlog (two weeks was the estimate if memory serves).

I explained I had a corporate client using that page the next day, but that didn't seem to concern them.

It was only when I mentioned the fact that I "wouldn't be able to recommend smugmug on certain forums" that they did anything.

I think they have issues with customer service overload at times.

That was the impression I got anyway.

-------------------------

Conclusion:

Great product, support a little sketchy at times.

[rhommel]

the wedding photo on the beach is sexy! nice.

thanks! :)

[new girl on the bloc]

Smugmug:

Pros:

Good customization.
Fairly good forum support.
Does what it claims to do.

Cons:

No printing facilities outside the US.
Won't let you change the emoticon to your own branding.
Insist on their footer on the bottom of your page.
Very poor customer service when dealing with individual problems:

I had a log in page for a client gallery that had some really messy html around it. Nothing I could change, a fault on Smugmugs end.

When I reported it, first they insisted it was a "browser issue".

Then as I pushed it, they realised that was not the case.

They then insisted that they were going to fix it "when they had time" as they had a backlog (two weeks was the estimate if memory serves).

I explained I had a corporate client using that page the next day, but that didn't seem to concern them.

It was only when I mentioned the fact that I "wouldn't be able to recommend smugmug on certain forums" that they did anything.

I think they have issues with customer service overload at times.

That was the impression I got anyway.

-------------------------

Conclusion:

Great product, support a little sketchy at times.

thanks for the review. sounds like i can scratch them off my list. their logo is a real turnoff too.

[rhommel]

Here's my actual review, since I currently use all of them. I posted this on another forum

What are you going to use your website for?

- Photo Dump
- Portfolio Site
- Client Proofing
- Photo Blogging

Prophoto4
Just a note that google/search engines generally LOVE wordpress, this is your best bet if you want to do some SEO
Con: Expensive
Pros: Easily customizable, their tutorials are really good, support is also good

I have to say the Zenfolio and Smugmug are both good for either dumping your photos, or for client proofing... However:

Support - SmugMug: Champion of Customer Service
Community - SmugMug: Smugmug has dgrin.com which is VERY active
Name - Zenfolio: More professional sounding than SMUG
Admin - Zenfolio: Simpler Dashboard, Ajax technology
Themes - Zenfolio: More up to date elegant themes, Smugmug got stuck in the early 2000s http://www.torontophotographygroup.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
Customization - Smugmug: Almost EVERYTHING is customazible
Pricing - Zenfolio: Cheaper
Custom permalinks - Zenfolio: Customazible permalinks. SEO Friendly

[mtimber]

thanks for the review. sounds like i can scratch them off my list. their logo is a real turnoff too.

Don't get me wrong, they have a good product.

But when I really needed their help, it wasn't there.

I have copies of all the emails of course.

[new girl on the bloc]

Don't get me wrong, they have a good product.

But when I really needed their help, it wasn't there.

I have copies of all the emails of course.

i like their look, somewhat, but want to get it right on the first try.

[new girl on the bloc]

Name - Zenfolio: More professional sounding than SMUG


for certain: the name smugmug bothers me

[new girl on the bloc]

here is a free option that doesn't seem half bad when just starting out and money is an issue. here is a wordpress theme made for photography - http://theme.wordpress.com/themes/ni****a/ you can upload a batch of your favorite photos and set them to the 'slide' feature. you then have a flash home page that you can change out every so often. it's lean, but looks pretty clean if you don't add any other posts.

add pages about you, your services, etc. and one titled gallery where you can upload your photos and have them display in a gallery style! A free site that takes only a few minutes to create, and looks pretty darn good. and i'm picky.

---

the forum is not allowing the name of the theme because it has s h i t in the middle of it. if this posts, you will have to put the url in to see the site - n i s h i t a

[new girl on the bloc]

here's a demo but without the slide feature - http://ni****ademo.wordpress.com/

[Bob_A]

Cons:

Won't let you change the emoticon to your own branding.


Are you talking about the favicon? I know you can change that ... mine's a Nikon D3 :)

[mtimber]

Are you talking about the favicon? I know you can change that ... mine's a Nikon D3 :)

Yes sorry, the favicon.

You couldn't change it when I started my account a few months ago.

Well known on the dgrinn forum.

[Bob_A]

Yes sorry, the favicon.

You couldn't change it when I started my account a few months ago.

Well known on the dgrinn forum.

Sure you could. I changed mine a year or so ago. Did you have a Power User or Pro account? If you just had a standard account you can't really do any customization.

[DarkBoxPhotography]

I went with Zenfolio, as I think they are good. I bought custom domain and linked it to my zenfolio account. I still work on the looks, pricing and funcionality, but I quite like it.

What's good is that you can't really see any Zenfolio logos or links (not that I'm aware of anyway).

The template is still mostly default, but the website is only 3 days old, so it will change a lot in future.

Have a look, the website should be now in my signature. (remember, work in progress ;))

[travsirocz]

Yes sorry, the favicon.

You couldn't change it when I started my account a few months ago.

Well known on the dgrinn forum.

I changed mine a couple of years ago. www.captureyourselftoday.com/ Maybe you need a pro level account?

[travsirocz]

dude.. nice site.. i like how it all streams together... i would not have known you had all that going on.... really nice...

Thank you :) I am never 100% satisfied so I am always tweaking things. Its the best I have had it in a long time. I spent the last few weeks doing a lot of behind the scenes work to get what I wanted. Now I need to get my client galleries at smugmug a facelift.

[travsirocz]

Very nice!

Big fan of sites like this where the photos just pops out at you and information/prices are well organized. Didn't take me long to find some prices for your service. If I were a client that is one of the top things I'd want to see. I don't like sites that say "call us for prices".

Thank you :) I also agree that finding the prices is a plus. Maybe not just put them on the home page and give your site a bit of time to sell them but not to bury them either. I have never called anyone to get prices when they are not available. Well, maybe once. I just move on to somebody else and find work that is just as good, or the same product and use them. I understand the call us for prices angle, I am just one of the customers that won't be calling unless you have something so unique that nobody else comes close too.

[travsirocz]

the dogs on your site are beautiful; so photogenic!

I've been lucky with great models :)

http://www.dewitzphotography.com/pet-portraits/

[new girl on the bloc]

I've been lucky with great models :)

http://www.dewitzphotography.com/pet-portraits/

indeed ;)

[Bob_A]

I changed mine a couple of years ago. www.captureyourselftoday.com/ (http://www.captureyourselftoday.com/) Maybe you need a pro level account?

I think you need at least a Power User account (which I have) since you need to add some HTML to the "Custom Header" section. And I don't recall the reason, but the favicon had to be hosted outside of Smugmug. Mine's on Panoramio. Here's my code:

<LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/40399430.jpg">

... and here's my favicon:

http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/40399430.jpg

[mtimber]

I changed mine a couple of years ago. www.captureyourselftoday.com/ Maybe you need a pro level account?

I have a pro level account, will look into that again. :-)

[mtimber]

Just to re-iterate though.

I learned a long time ago that it is better to pay someone else to worry about keeping the backend of a website running properly, with all the constant technology changes.

Smugmug does that very well.