fastest way to get pictures from camera into computer

[gordeaux]

What's the fastest way to download pictures from my new 10D with a 1GB Flash Card?

Seems to me a card reader connected to a firewire connection might be it. Does anyone know of such a device and/or where to purchase?

What have other people been using to get pictures onto the computer as quickly as possible?

Thanks.

[elm54]

Hello,
I have a lexar firewire cf reader that I use on my mac I also use a usb cf reader on my pc I find the firewire reader quicker. I hear usb2 is fast also, but have no experience with it. Here's the adress for lexar
http://www.lexarmedia.com/
I got mine on ebay for around $30 US.
Peace
Eric

[Sketcher]

I agree, Lexar Firewire Card Reader would be my vote.

I just transferred a full 512MB CF in 3min 5sec. via USB 2.0 and though that ain't shabby it'd be a hoot to do the same data xfer in a theoretical 47-60 seconds not to mention save on my laptop's battery life while in the field.

elm54, what data xfer times are you seeing w/your Firewire reader? Does it seem like an actuall 4X difference between the two or somewhat less?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I would think that the card itself becomes the limiting factor in a firewire transfer. ie Firewire has more throughput than the card read speed will allow. USB2 WOULD be the same story IF USB2 is given the priority by the CPU/OS.

Any way,. either option would be a lot faster than the from the camera via USB. There is also a SCSI reader on the market. Much too expensive,. and althought th theoretical speed would be even faster,. again the Card itself becomes the bottleneck,.. so none of that extra speed could be realized.

[Sketcher]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I would think that the card itself becomes the limiting factor in a firewire transfer. ie Firewire has more throughput than the card read speed will allow. USB2 WOULD be the same story IF USB2 is given the priority by the CPU/OS.

Any way,. either option would be a lot faster than the from the camera via USB. There is also a SCSI reader on the market. Much too expensive,. and althought th theoretical speed would be even faster,. again the Card itself becomes the bottleneck,.. so none of that extra speed could be realized.
True that, once you're using the maximum performance method for transferring data (in this case - Firewire) your bottleneck would be CF card performance. Noting the dpreview.com CF report, the higher rated CF cards are not always the better performers however. In some cases, performance is significantly relative to the point at which the xfer speed is being measured whether it be in body or through which card reader.

[elm54]

Hello , Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.

Sketcher wrote:
. Noting the dpreview.com CF report, the higher rated CF cards are not always the better performers however. In some cases, performance is significantly relative to the point at which the xfer speed is being measured whether it be in body or through which card reader.



I believe you are both right. As stated I don't have usb2 but the firewire is faster than usb "But" the firewire isn't as fast as expected . I shoot raw, when I have shot jpeg I see it DL much fater than raw. Also I have 3 256mb cf cards, a viking (speed not listed I guess I will try to find out) and 2 lexars 1-12x and 1-24x. The 24x is noticably faster than the viking. I am not that scientific in my statements , just my perceptions.;)

[gordeaux]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I would think that the card itself becomes the limiting factor in a firewire transfer. ie Firewire has more throughput than the card read speed will allow. USB2 WOULD be the same story IF USB2 is given the priority by the CPU/OS.

Any way,. either option would be a lot faster than the from the camera via USB. There is also a SCSI reader on the market. Much too expensive,. and althought th theoretical speed would be even faster,. again the Card itself becomes the bottleneck,.. so none of that extra speed could be realized.

Who makes and/or where can I buy the SCSI card reader? (I'm a SCSI guy on everything else on multiple computers).

[Sketcher]

gordeaux wrote:

Who makes and/or where can I buy the SCSI card reader? (I'm a SCSI guy on everything else on multiple computers).


http://www.d-store.com/d-store/microtech/Microtech_Store.htm#CompactFlash

http://www.imagingspectrum.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cardreaders.htm?E+scstore

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/key=connectivity

http://www.microtechint.com/cardreaders.html

http://www.adorama.com/skudooraid003925.tpl?sku=IMTCRWSW

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh3.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=GetItem__Aindex_html___IC=MIRT 3ES___SID=F597D4500D0

Just some links that Google coughed up. dpreview.com states that Firewire by far outperforms the SCSI equipment but I don't know which iteration of SCSI is referenced. The few reviews I've found that tout SCSI Card Reading as faster are old (pre-2000) and the gear referenced in those articles isn't available or is no longer supported by the Mfgr.

Microtech SCSI readers are available (linked above) but their own specs tell that it's 1Mps slower than Firewire and at 4 times the cost.

MHO about why there is little if any current review data comparing IEEE 1394 (Firewire) and SCSI Readers is that SCSI is no longer a player in the consumer or prosumer digital market. The technology cost is just too prohibitive for marginal if any gain. If it were otherwise, there'd be more data & reviews (IMO). In the very least, there would be tidbits of information regarding the future of SCSI and digital imaging, I haven't found any.

I called B&H, CDW and Lexar and though BH & CDW sell the SCSI gear they as well as Lexar affirm that Firewire readers outperform SCSI without question. They only sell the SCSI equipment to customers who are limited to SCSI gear (Lexar does not produce SCSI readers).

I've actually been looking up this information over the past couple weeks regarding Firewire vs SCSI because I have SCSI gear in my SOHO. RAID, Scanning, Backup etc. (though my purchases were made when SCSI was the top dog). Now, with EIDE and Firewire - I'm not likely to make a SCSI purchase ever again. My money's better spent buying lenses and camera accessories!

Anyway, that's what I've found in my own obsession for fast gear. I recommend getting the Firewire reader and spending your time and money on camera gear. But, to each their own :).

*Note - iEEE 1394b (Firewire II) is likely to be released and in consumer equipment by early next year. Sure, there's always something better coming down the pipe -and you have to start somewhere, but look up the specs on it. Looks like some good stuff. By next year the question will be; Should I buy Firewire, or should I buy Firewire? Oh, I'm sure USB will be there somewhere, cuz they're not sitting still either.

**Anyone else have data on SCSI Readers which I may have missed in my stumble through the forest?

[gordeaux]

Sketcher wrote:
gordeaux wrote:

Who makes and/or where can I buy the SCSI card reader? (I'm a SCSI guy on everything else on multiple computers).


http://www.d-store.com/d-store/microtech/Microtech_Store.htm#CompactFlash

http://www.imagingspectrum.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cardreaders.htm?E+scstore

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/key=connectivity

http://www.microtechint.com/cardreaders.html

http://www.adorama.com/skudooraid003925.tpl?sku=IMTCRWSW

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh3.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=GetItem__Aindex_html___IC=MIRT 3ES___SID=F597D4500D0

Just some links that Google coughed up. dpreview.com states that Firewire by far outperforms the SCSI equipment but I don't know which iteration of SCSI is referenced. The few reviews I've found that tout SCSI Card Reading as faster are old (pre-2000) and the gear referenced in those articles isn't available or is no longer supported by the Mfgr.

Microtech SCSI readers are available (linked above) but their own specs tell that it's 1Mps slower than Firewire and at 4 times the cost.

MHO about why there is little if any current review data comparing IEEE 1394 (Firewire) and SCSI Readers is that SCSI is no longer a player in the consumer or prosumer digital market. The technology cost is just too prohibitive for marginal if any gain. If it were otherwise, there'd be more data & reviews (IMO). In the very least, there would be tidbits of information regarding the future of SCSI and digital imaging, I haven't found any.

I called B&H, CDW and Lexar and though BH & CDW sell the SCSI gear they as well as Lexar affirm that Firewire readers outperform SCSI without question. They only sell the SCSI equipment to customers who are limited to SCSI gear (Lexar does not produce SCSI readers).

I've actually been looking up this information over the past couple weeks regarding Firewire vs SCSI because I have SCSI gear in my SOHO. RAID, Scanning, Backup etc. (though my purchases were made when SCSI was the top dog). Now, with EIDE and Firewire - I'm not likely to make a SCSI purchase ever again. My money's better spent buying lenses and camera accessories!

Anyway, that's what I've found in my own obsession for fast gear. I recommend getting the Firewire reader and spending your time and money on camera gear. But, to each their own :).

*Note - iEEE 1394b (Firewire II) is likely to be released and in consumer equipment by early next year. Sure, there's always something better coming down the pipe -and you have to start somewhere, but look up the specs on it. Looks like some good stuff. By next year the question will be; Should I buy Firewire, or should I buy Firewire? Oh, I'm sure USB will be there somewhere, cuz they're not sitting still either.

**Anyone else have data on SCSI Readers which I may have missed in my stumble through the forest?



That pretty much settles it for me. Thanks for all the info.

[photography By Evangelos]

shouldent the PCMIA slot on your lap top be the fastest way? Or is fire wire faster? It is the slot on the side of you lap top that you slide in the credit card type compact flash card reader and put the compact flash card in. I have one of and find it to be very fast. But I also have a fire wire port on the side that I do not use. So what is the fastest? USB 2.0 is not to bad my lap top has that too but it is not as fast as the PCMIA slot.

[Sketcher]

photography By Evangelos wrote:
shouldent the PCMIA slot on your lap top be the fastest way? Or is fire wire faster? It is the slot on the side of you lap top that you slide in the credit card type compact flash card reader and put the compact flash card in. I have one of and find it to be very fast. But I also have a fire wire port on the side that I do not use. So what is the fastest? USB 2.0 is not to bad my lap top has that too but it is not as fast as the PCMIA slot.
Great question Evangelos. I'm using my laptop more and more and haven't even considered a PCMCIA until you mentioned it. Per your experience, how fast can you xfer a full CF (any size)? Those adapters are only $9.00 - $15.00 for the type I/II CF adapters. I'm having trouble digging up current data on those things but for that low of a cost, perhaps I'll forgoe the research and just go buy one.

Has anyone out there compared real world PCMCIA CF and Firewire or come across a current link to specs?

[CyberDyneSystems]

If you have the 32 bit "Cardbus" PCMCIA slot,. it's max theoretical transfer rate is 33Mhz (as in the same speed as the PCI bus on a computer) I can not remeber how to translate 32 bit X 33Mhz to arrive at the XMbps transfer rate???????

Great post Sketcher,. a lot of info there.

As far as SCSI Vs. Firewire,. My mistake. I totally blew the math on that one. I forgot that the plain vanilla old fashioned SCSI interface is only 10MBytes per second. Not the Ultra 160 Megabytes I am used to for high end Hard drives. Stupid oversite. Firewire would be about 4 to 5 times faster than standard SCSI.

Itr is true that SCSI has seen its day,.. the only real usable application left for it is high end disk drives and arrays.

[Sketcher]

Thanks CyberDyneSystems,

Ouch with the reference to Cardbus speeds! Makes the brain tired trying to remember that stuff :).

After reading your post the point that comes to mind for me is that regardless the theoretical maximum bandwidth possible with a PCMCIA reader - you're relegate to the architecture of the main bus (which, essentially limits your USB 2.0 and Firewire transfers as well).

I got into it with a couple geek friends of mine and our consensus was that there were too many varied platforms and bus architectures to arrive at a conclusion which would be relevant to the masses regarding PCMCIA performance. And, seeing that the cards are dirt cheap - no one wanted to spend the time proving specs. So, I'm just going to buy one the next time I'm in Bestbuy and see how it plays in the sandbox compared to my USB 2.0 and Firewire readers. For that price, it doesn't hurt to have another trick in the bag.

One thing we did determine (involving phone calls to people who know too much about this sort of thing) was though USB 2.0 has a maximum theortical of 480Mbps compared to Firewire's 400Mbps, USB 2.0's 480Mbps cap is only sustainable for burst transfers quickly dropping down to 300Mbps and lower during larger transfers whereas Firewire's cap is more realistic with a sustainable 380Mbps throughout the entire transfer period - thus, the tortoise outruns the hair when it comes down to sustained published specs.

Anyway - that last mention is to address the issue of USB 2.0 and iEEE 1394 published bandwidth specs for those of you who scratch your head at the numbers like I did :).

*As always, I welcome data which corrects or directs my understanding! Please feel free to share it!

[justme_dc]

all that bus speed stuff is making my head hurt.... all I know is that my lexar firewire reader transfers a full 1gig card in just a hair under 5 min. Not too shabby.

USB 2.0 although a cool idea, doesn't seem to have the same wide spread support as USB 1.0 and Firewire.

I had more to say on the subject here.....
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10090#47421

[Morden]

all that bus speed stuff is making my head hurt.... all I know is that my lexar firewire reader transfers a full 1gig card in just a hair under 5 min. Not too shabby.
What sort of computer / firewire card do you use with your firewire reader? I have a Creative Audigy sound card in my PC, and need to know if the firewire port built into the card will work with a firewire reader.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Morden,. you should be fine. The Firewire specs and standard is very well established and there should be very little variation from one firewire card to another.

Sketcher,. Indeed,. USB2 is faster on paper,. but it does not tell the whole story,. Firewire,. like Scsi has a very robust controller that maintains a "High priority" with the CPU/OS. In practice Firewire easily maintains a faster continous thruput than USB2.

That said,.. again I caution that either USB2 or Firewire (or pcmcia for that matter) is enough faster than the cards we are reading that there will little to no performance diference between any of the interfaces above.


Here is my recomendation. Definatley use a PCMCIA reader for a laptop reader. They cost about $15.00,.. thats fifteen! :)

For the desktop? Forget Firewire or USB2 card readers...

AND GET AN Xs-DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!

It doubles as a USB2 Card reader,. but is so much more! (have you all figured out I like the X-drive yet??? :)

Anyway,. I was in the market for the Lexar Firewire reader to replace my very slow USB1 card reader,.. but as the X-drive serves as a USB2 Card reader as well it was two birds with one stone :D

[Morden]

Morden,. you should be fine. The Firewire specs and standard is very well established and there should be very little variation from one firewire card to another.

Thanks for the reply!