Fake 3rd market Canon DSLRs?

[red hot sheep]

I really want to purchase a 20d, and found one for a very low price on ebay. Don't worry, I'm a veteran of ebay and I am well aware of cowboy sellers, but this guy lives close to me, and offers home-pickup - so I can go to him and pay by cash.

Basically, I rang him up, and hes sold 20 or so 20ds, all for a very low price. However, he says they are US models, but for some reason (although he says the box is sealed), he says no instruction manual is included. Also, of course, no UK warranty.

I have also contacted people from his completed items, who have bought one, and they say hes a good seller, and they got the product.

So I know I'll get a product, I'm just a little weary: I mean why sealed box, but no manual? You know how in some parts imitation products are made, and then sold cheaply (eg fake rolexes in Asia). Does this exist with cameras, specifically Canon DSLRs? I'm really worried that this may be a fake Canon camera.

Sorry for the long post, but thanks for any help.

Francis

[Jon]

I haven't heard of counterfeit Canons.They'd be a lot harder to pull off, from the sheer complexity of the beast, than a counterfeit Rolex, where all you need to worry about is the outward appearance.
The 20D sold in the US doesn't come in a sealed box. At least mine didn't. So it'd be easy enough to remove the manuals (and software, and . . . ). Not saying this seller did so, but this might have been done before he got hold of them, too.

[zacker]

it seems strange and i have never heard of this one before... the only concern is that they are canon factory refurbs. Why no Instructions is beyond me... even refurbs have the user manuals with them. Hmmmm, something tells me this just aint right and to avoid them like the plague
-zacker-

[foxbat]

I believe you can call Canon with the serial number to check if its registered stolen. It might even be possible to decode the serial and/or the barcode to determine the origin but I don't know how.

[uktrailmonster]

You get what you pay for in life.

[uktrailmonster]

So if you want to save money, either buy a new 350D or a lightly used 20D with box, instructions and original receipt etc.

[FlyingPete]

I saw a fake Canon 35mm P&S many years back, but it wasn't trying to look like any specific model, it was just labeled (badly) a Canon. A fake 20D, that sounds a wee bit too hard.

[condyk]

Maybe he buys them in bulk in the US and has them shipped over. The manuals and stuff are quite heavy. 50 x 20Ds without manuals would be a lot cheaper to ship. Who knows? If other buyers are happy then seems a decent option if you prefer to save a few quid than have the security of new.

[Phil V]

What Condyk said, probably illegal US imports. No problem if you don't care abouit the warranty (how much do you genuinely save - compared to the cheapest on-line price?)

[Mthorpe_Davies]

The warranty only last 12 months, if the camera works and is a big saving over a UK market one yopu might as well get it. As he's offering home pick up you will be able to look at the camera before you part with your cash, if he was dodgy he wouldn't want you at his home would he.

[Mthorpe_Davies]

BTW you can get fake Leica M series camera's that are so good they have even fooled Leica themselves. These are apparently made by a guru in Russia, most are copies of limited edition models which are highly collectable.

[Jon]

BTW you can get fake Leica M series camera's that are so good they have even fooled Leica themselves. These are apparently made by a guru in Russia, most are copies of limited edition models which are highly collectable.
Leicas are 100% mechanical, and the Russians were making knockoffs from captured Leitz tooling starting after WW II. So that's no big deal. Getting something with the electronics of a 20D to perform well enough to fool anyone would be significantly more difficult.

[PaulB]

Leicas are 100% mechanical, and the Russians were making knockoffs from captured Leitz tooling starting after WW II. So that's no big deal. Getting something with the electronics of a 20D to perform well enough to fool anyone would be significantly more difficult.

Actually the first Leica copies came out of the Soviet Union in the mid-30's.

[ronosmena]

i think what you are purchasing is what is known to be a Grey Market unit, grey market units are not fake ones, they are units intended for sale in other countries (not US) this work well but they are not covered under Canon's Warranty - so if anything goes wrong, your on your own - Just an insight based on those units. Hope everything goes well.

[tzalman]

Here in Israel there are several outfits that purchase cameras in the U.S. at wholesale price and undersell the "official " Israeli importer. The cameras come with American warrantee registration cards, but they are marked 'valid for U.S. residents only'. Fortunately, Israeli law requires any company the sells new gear to provide a one year service guarantee. Of course if the camera needs repair it will not be done by the official importer's techies, who are Canon trained, but by some unknown repairman. The official importer is trying to combat the competition of the "grey importers' by offering three year warrantees and free photo lessions and support.
Elie

[kram]

Most likely grey market imports from the US and/or refurbished pieces. A third possibility is stolen but its tough to have a continuous supply of those!!

Havent seen 'fake' DSLRs. Its probably just too difficult to make them that its cheaper to just throw in the original :)

[red hot sheep]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. The thing is, I know I would lose a 12 month warrenty, but isn't the camera more likely to go wrong after the first year anyway?

Also this would genuinely save me around £250 from the cheapest retailer (including the cashback).

Thanks again, all your thoughts are very helpful.

Francis

[uktrailmonster]

Unfortunately, it's most likely to go wrong straight out of the box or very early on. Infant mortality due to a production defect etc. You pays your money and takes your chance as they say.

[SkipD]

Actually, I have found that problems in hi-tech gear - including cameras - is much more likely to happen right out of the box than much later. An example is a fellow on this forum who had a brand new 1DMK11N that would not format the SD card. He had to send the unit to Canon UK and get a brand new one sent back to him.

Be very cautious about the non-traditional source.

[red hot sheep]

Is there any way to buy a warranty off Canon? Like you can buy extended warranties for many products, so can you just simply buy one?

[CRE@TE]

Is there any way to buy a warranty off Canon? Like you can buy extended warranties for many products, so can you just simply buy one?

Yes, it's called, buying a new camera from an authorized dealer. :lol:

[PhotosGuy]

Is there any way to buy a warranty off Canon? Like you can buy extended warranties for many products, so can you just simply buy one? I can't answer that, but if you pay with a credit card, you might automatically have extra insurance from the card company.

[Andy_T]

I don't think that either stolen or refurbished cameras would come in original boxes, but without manuals. More likely to me (I'm guessing here) is that the manuals that were included were in another language that would not be helpful for UK residents (e.g. Spanish/Chinese/Russian etc... )

If they are a registered company and selling this stuff online, then the European online sales laws give you quite some leverage in case of a problem out-of-the-box. Just make sure the shop is not just a letterbox.

Best regards,
Andy

[Rob612]

I don't know if this can help, but here in Italy all the Canon bodies came in a box that is factory sealed, so at least that part makes sense, at least to me.

What I don't understand is the manual thing but surely it can be in the "wrong" language so removing it will somehow "hide" to the buyer the original destination. Of course this can be investigate via the serial # of the camera.

Regarding the fake, honestly I think that a fake 20D will costo the producer probably more that what you are going to pay for.

For the stolen stuff theory, as someone else pointed out, its difficult to have a constant supply, unless the seller is the thief, and knows exactly when/where/how the stuff is shipped, or is in strict connection with somebody that does :)

I vote for the gray market/illegal import/whatever.

[Andy_T]

Small additional thought ...

... a machine that 'seals' open boxes with shrink-wrap foil most likely wouldn't cost the world :wink:

Best regards,
Andy

[DocFrankenstein]

My friend bought a sealed telephone book for 2K thinking it was a laptop.

Go meet the guy, but don't have the money on you and open the box to see that the actual 20D is there.

Leicas are 100% mechanical, and the Russians were making knockoffs from captured Leitz tooling starting after WW II. So that's no big deal. Getting something with the electronics of a 20D to perform well enough to fool anyone would be significantly more difficult.
Actually the first Leica copies came out of the Soviet Union in the mid-30's.
Russia captured contax and zeiss factories. Not Letz

And the russians started making FEDs which are a leica copy in the late 20s

[PaulB]

Russia captured contax and zeiss factories. Not Letz (sic = Leitz)
And the russians started making FEDs which are a leica copy in the late 20s

Actually DocF,it was the mid-30's - the first 3 copies of the Leica II were assembled on the 26th. October 1932 and production of the Fed 1 started in January 1934 with 1,800 Fed 1a's delivered in December of that year. 80,000 Fed 1's had been made up to the end of 1938.

[red hot sheep]

Wow! Thanks for all of your fast and really helpful replies.

I think I'm going to give him another ring as I have his number, and ask him some questions; I bet that way he answers will tell me quite a bit (eg. if I ask them why they don't come with a manual - he may become uncomfortable)

Francis

[nevermindthat]

Wow! Thanks for all of your fast and really helpful replies.

I think I'm going to give him another ring as I have his number, and ask him some questions; I bet that way he answers will tell me quite a bit (eg. if I ask them why they don't come with a manual - he may become uncomfortable)

Francis

Honestly, people that rip you off on ebay usually don't want to meet you, give you their phone number, or their address as all of those things make it easier to track a con-man. So, if this guy is giving you all of that information then it's at least worth going to look at one, maybe taking a few snapshots with it, maybe even take a photo of him to give to the police if he is a con-artist?

[zacker]

GOOD IDEA NEVERMINDTHAT! LOL The only thing sketchy about this whole deal is that brad new cams come with a warranty...these dont so i guess its just a case of buyer beware!
-zacker-