Q&A Session with Gmen: Sports Photography

[aam1234]

If you have visited the sports section in this forum then there is no doubt that you’ve come across Gmen’s work. The first thing you will notice is the diversity of his work. One day Gavin will be shooting football matches, the next he will be chasing horses with his camera(s) in the tracks. Yet another day he will be capturing the action of a rugby game. You will also notice the quality of his work, which reflects the many years of experience he has in the field of sports photography.

Gavin was generous in agreeing to be the guest for this session, so if you have any question related to sports photography you can ask him here and he will be more than happy to answer it for you.

Thanks Gavin

[gmen]

If you have visited the sports section in this forum then there is no doubt that you’ve come across Gmen’s work. The first thing you will notice is the diversity of his work. One day Gavin will be shooting football matches, the next he will be chasing horses with his camera(s) in the tracks. Yet another day he will be capturing the action of a rugby game. You will also notice the quality of his work, which reflects the many years of experience he has in the field of sports photography.

Gavin was generous in agreeing to be the guest for this session, so if you have any question related to sports photography you can ask him here and he will be more than happy to answer it for you.

Thanks GavinThanks for the kind intro aam1234 ;) I was certainly chuffed to be asked to participate in this session.

I won't claim to be an expert on shooting all sports, but I'll do my best to answer any questions that arise about technique, equipment, access, ethics, etc. If I can't provide the definitive answer myself, I'll try to point you in the direction of a resource that can help.

My main experience lies in football (soccer :lol: ) photography, although as aam1234 mentions I have dabbled in numerous other sports as well, including boxing, horse racing, rugby and speedway.

I took my first sports pics about 20 years ago with a Canon AE1 and my trusty old 50mm f/1.8 lens. The camera outfit has changed a bit since then! I now shoot for a fairly diverse range of publications, including local (and sometimes national) newspapers, the Speedway Star and (recently) the Boxing News. I also provide photographic services for a number of sports clubs across the county of Essex - e.g. providing imagery for websites, matchday programmes and club merchandise.

My most recent footballing post in the sports forum can be seen here (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=116073).

Cheers! ---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Some other work by Gavin: Rugby (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112672), and Hockey (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=104254).

Edit: Finally found my personal favorite, horse racing (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=67794).

[PhotosGuy]

Great idea!!! I suggest that if anyone has a question, look at these links first & maybe save Gavin some repeat typing. ;)

American High School Football Question.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112265

AF Point selection for sports
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112654

Team Photos -- Techniques and Results
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112409

1D MKIIN - First Pics
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112545

Another "help me what do I do thread" (Sports Flash indoors - Good stuff from Gavin)
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=113074

BIG thanks, Gavin! http://photo.klein-jensen.dk/smilies/cheer2.gif

[gmen]

Great idea!!! I suggest that if anyone has a question, look at these links first & maybe save Gavin some repeat typing. ;):lol: Thanks very much Frank. I'm more than happy to go over some of the old ground again if need be... it might make more sense second time round!

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Agree with Gavin there :)

[aam1234]

Have a couple of questions for you Gavin:

- I believe you shoot manual. How do you manage with changes of light/weather.

- Do you shoot Raw or jpeg.


Thanks

[MTalley]

With respect to the previous "ask the expert" threads on event and B/W photography, I'm looking forward to this thread. Now, if I can just find where I put my questions. :D

General question, though: Do you shoot freelance, work for any publications or photo agencies, or both?

[gmen]

I believe you shoot manual. How do you manage with changes of light/weather.
Yep, I like to shoot in manual mode as far as possible. I think I'm a bit of a control freak in that regard ;)

I will generally take a base reading with my lightmeter, take a quick test shot and chimp the histogram. If need be I'll tweak the exposure slightly to make sure the histogram is nicely exposed to the right without clipping the main highlights.

For most action sports I will try to shoot at at least 1/1000s with the lens wide open - so I will choose the lowest ISO that gives me this reading.

If I'm shooting in the daytime and part of the playing area is in shade, I will repeat the process for the shaded area and keep that reading in mind. I will then change the exposure on the fly - there may be a two stop difference, so I may shoot at 1/4000s f/2.8 in the bright area and at 1/1000s f/2.8 in the shaded area.

I try to avoid the automatic modes as my experiences in Av, Tv and P have generally been disappointing. The problems arise with teams wearing different colour shirts (including nasty white ones :p ), the advertising hoardings around the ground, variable amounts of sky in the images, etc. I find that no matter what metering pattern I set up, the camera will always under or over-expose the best picture of the day :lol: and I don't have the patience with Photoshop to salvage the image!

If the light is constantly changing (e.g.. fast moving clouds on a windy day with the sun coming in and out unpredictably) then I will resort to Av mode, keeping the lens wide open and choosing an ISO to keep the shutter speed high enough when the sun is behind clouds. I will always be aiming to go back into manual exposure if the lighting settles down.

The other way I cope with this situation is to shoot into the sun. In these circumstances, the exposure when the sun is out and when the sun goes in is very similar. I will be overexposing by, say, two stops when the sun is out... then the sun goes in and the same exposure could well still apply. This puts me back into my 'comfort zone' and enables me to shoot manually again.

Shooting into the sun has other benefits as well - e.g. beautiful rim-lighting - but it's not for the faint-hearted ;)

If the light is simply dwindling, then I will habitually take meter readings as I go along, and dial up the ISO as the light fades. This is where the grass comes in handy - once I've got my base reading with the handheld meter, I can relate this to the grass :lol: so I simply fill the frame with grass and use that for the exposure setting.

Grass varies from pitch to pitch ;) At some grounds the grass will act as a perfect 18% grey card, at others I may need to be anywhere between +1/3 and +1 stop over the reading from the turf. For artificial pitches (e.g. hockey), the difference may be a little higher than that.

For indoor sports, the situation is a lot easier - and manual exposure is certainly the way to go. I'm sure we'll touch on that subject again later on.

Hmmmm. Hope that's the kind of answer you were looking for! I'm sure I'll think of some more info at a later date!

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Do you shoot Raw or jpeg.
Ahhh... I'm a jpeg man much of the time.

There are several reasons why:

1. Post-processing time at an event. If I'm transmitting during or immediately after an event, I don't want to have to deal with large file sizes and conversions. Time is of the essence.

2. Maximising camera performance. Even the MkII can get a bit sluggish when shooting RAW images in a burst (particularly as you increase the ISO) - so you WILL miss the big celebration shot as the buffer WILL fill up when the last minute Cup Final winning goal goes in! :lol: This is also why I don't shoot RAW+jpeg.

3. Post-processing time after an event. I simply don't like post-processing I suppose... particularly waiting for RAW images to convert to jpegs! Having said that I do zero all the in-camera parameters (except contrast which is generally set to -1), so I will tweak the levels and add sharpening where required. I still like an unadulterated jpeg ;)

4. I can't think of a 4 at the moment - I'll come back to you on that one.

I'm not 100% against RAW - I can see the benefits but the workflow just doesn't always fit the timescales.

I do shoot RAW sometimes for indoor sports (as it gives me a little bit more control over colour temperature) and for things like team pictures and 'feature' shots (as a safety net!). Maybe if I invested in an ultra-fast laptop I'd shoot RAW a little more often ;)

---- Gavin

[gmen]

4. I can't think of a 4 at the moment - I'll come back to you on that one.
Oh yes... you don't fill up your memory cards quite as quickly.

I don't advocate using 4GB cards and squeezing a thousand or more jpeg images onto them - that's a recipe for disaster in my opinion (lost card, corrupt card). But I like to have a little bit of breathing space on my cards for the big celebration. You don't want to be changing a card in the heat of the moment... although this isn't my primary reason for not always shooting RAW.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

General question, though: Do you shoot freelance, work for any publications or photo agencies, or both?
Hi MTalley....

I am a freelancer, although much of my work is for a group of newspapers in Essex. They have several different editions and (virtually) no staff photographers that shoot sport, therefore they provide a good deal of work and variety.

I don't shoot 'exclusively' for them, so this opens up the opportunity to 'double up' and supply other publications where the opportunities arise. For example, if I'm covering a football match, I'll try to find an outlet for images of the away team - generally through their own local paper(s).

I also provide imagery for a number of different sports clubs, for their websites and programmes etc... as well as shooting pre-season team and individual shots.

It is possible to tout some of your images around the nationals as well... however, the agencies have most of the bases covered so the success rate is low for stuff like football.

I also regularly contribute to some 'specialist magazines' - e.g. the Speedway Star and Fair Game (a women's football magazine). I'm a photographer for a local authority Leisure Services department... and I do a fair bit of work the Essex County Football Association... and I have some images with a stock agency (Alamy). Variety is the spice of life :) and I like to keep my options open.

Some examples of my work in the press can be seen here: www.tgsphoto.co.uk/tearsheets

I've got two young children (1yr and 2yr), so the agency route isn't really for me at the moment as I'm trying to spend as much time with them as I can... Agency work can and will mean very unsociable hours and plenty of travelling. However, it's something for the future perhaps. The way things are going, everyone may be shooting for an agency in a few years time!

Hope that answers your question.

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Have some stupid questions if I may re: publications,

1- Since you shoot freelance mostly (as I understood), how do you obtain access to events.

2- Can you sell the same photo to different publications (would like you to maximize your income :D )

[gmen]

Have some stupid questions if I may re: publications,

1- Since you shoot freelance mostly (as I understood), how do you obtain access to events.

2- Can you sell the same photo to different publications (would like you to maximize your income :D )Not supid at all aam1234... the mysteries of freelancing :)

1. I rarely, if ever, shoot an event purely on spec. 99% of the time I will be there on behalf of a publication, and they will request accreditation on my behalf. Shooting certain levels of football in the UK, you also need the correct licence(s) and you are obliged to provide the relevant clubs with details of the publication(s) you are working for (other than the one that booked you). A lot of togs 'blag' their way into events, I'm afraid I'm not one of them ;)

2. In principle, yes you can - assuming you are not shooting 'exclusively' for a particular publication. If it's not an exclusive agreement then, ethically, it is still wise to wait until the publication that has booked you for the job has gone to press before touting the same images elsewhere. I have different 'arrangements' with different publications so the situation will vary from match to match... from time to time, I'll be providing four different papers with pics on a tight deadline, they will all be aware that they're not going to get 'exclusive' pics in that situation :lol:

It can be a minefield out there in newspaper/magazine land, so you need to keep your wits about you!

EDIT: I should add that it won't always be a publication that I am shooting for - sometimes an organisation (e.g. the County FA) or a club will request/provide the accreditation.

---- Gavin

[OviV]

Gavin,

You say you like to shoot JPEG due to post processing time. So do you do any post processing? Do you crop, sharpen, etc.? Or, do you simply let the publications do this work?

Thanks,
Ovi

[aam1234]

While reading one of your answers re: publications above (specifically about boxing), a question came to mind.

As you mentioned, you are relatively new to boxing. So was wondering how was the transition from your "comfort" zone e.g outdoors shooting to indoors and new sport to you.

[nation]

Excellent idea and thanks in advance for your time gmen :)

General question on cropping - I've heard sports photographers talking about their cropping and it's all tight, tight, tight to focus only on the point of action and nothing else. Taking for example your avatar pic they would even go as far as cutting off part of the arm of the guy on the right, the viewpoint being we all know he has an elbow all I'm interested in is the point of impact when the glove wacks the other guy's face. What's your take on to what extent we should be cropping? Hope it's not too broad a question :)

[gmen]

Gavin,

You say you like to shoot JPEG due to post processing time. So do you do any post processing? Do you crop, sharpen, etc.? Or, do you simply let the publications do this work?

Thanks,
Ovi
Hi Ovi...

I will crop the images to tighten up the composition if need be, although I try to keep the final crop close to a 3:2 format with a little bit of breathing space. This will allow the picture editor a little bit of room for manoeuvre when they lay their pages out.

Also, if you're trying to take a 'news' image then it's inevitable that some shots will be loose (the key action doesn't always happen in a frame-filling fashion sadly :lol: ), so there will be some cropping before sending in those cases.

Also, at the same, I'll resize the images depending on the publication. The newspapers are generally satisfied with an image which is around 1500 pixels on it's longest side and with a file size around 300KB. This is plenty big enough for publication and small enough to transmit a batch reasonably quickly. For magazines, larger sizes with less compression is usually required. Every publication wil have their own requirements for captioning, file naming and sizing.

I will tweak the levels if required. I don't always apply sharpening - but there are one or two publications that don't do seem any pre-press work themselves :rolleyes: so I will help them out by adding some USM myself!!

If I'm working on images to sell to clients as prints then I will spend a little bit more time on them and sharpen 'em up a bit more ;)

Hope that answers your question.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Excellent idea and thanks in advance for your time gmen :)

General question on cropping - I've heard sports photographers talking about their cropping and it's all tight, tight, tight to focus only on the point of action and nothing else. Taking for example your avatar pic they would even go as far as cutting off part of the arm of the guy on the right, the viewpoint being we all know he has an elbow all I'm interested in is the point of impact when the glove wacks the other guy's face. What's your take on to what extent we should be cropping? Hope it's not too broad a question :)
Hi nation!

Cropping... hmmm... there are many ways of looking at this.

My style is to try to crop as tight as possible in camera. Some of my reasoning is as follows:

The image will need less cropping after the event and therefore will retain its quality for printing/publication purposes.
The DoF will often be reduced because the subject will generally be shot at a long focal length and filling the frame as much as possible. This will isolate the subject from the background and help to make it 'pop'.
It's actually easier to nail the focus when the subject is larger in the frame.
A frame filling image will have more impact - a matter of opinion this one.
The closer you get to the subject the better you can convey the emotion and intensity of the sport - again, a matter of opinion!

However, I'm not a big fan of chopping off extremeties either - like the elbow you mention! If you just trim off someone's fingers, it can look uncomfortable. One school of thought also says that you shouldn't crop at joints - i.e. ankles, wrists, knees and elbows - and I think I generally subscribe to that view.

The other side of this issue is what the publication does with picture. Sometimes it bamboozles me... some of the cropping applied after the event defies logic :lol:

Often a paper will have a certain space that they need to fill, so they try to fit a vertical image into horizontal hole. To accomodate this, I generally try to supply a selection of horizontal and verticals. Hopefully they will advise me in advance of the 'shape' that they need... I've often been asked to supply a 'square' speedway picture for the back page of the paper ;) great!

Also publications will have their own style as well... some will crop tighter, tighter, tighter and some will just leave my images exactly as I submit them and lay the page out around them! The image sometimes leads the story or vice-versa.

Another thing to consider is that there are certain publications that will want to have some flexibilty with their layout to perhaps include text on the image - therefore they actively appreciate 'dead space' like grass or sky. Some will 'extend' areas of grass and sky 'artificially' in order to be able to include their caption/editorial inside the area of the image...

I'm sure cropping will come up again as it is vast but interesting subject.

---- Gavin

[mdm]

good info here.

[gmen]

While reading one of your answers re: publications above (specifically about boxing), a question came to mind.

As you mentioned, you are relatively new to boxing. So was wondering how was the transition from your "comfort" zone e.g outdoors shooting to indoors and new sport to you.
Shooting indoors has one huge benefit... the lighting is (usually) consistent, which makes exposure easy.

It also has one huge downside... the lighting is (usually) dreadful... particularly in the Essex dungeons that I frequent ;)

The last boxing event I shot was televised live on Sky, so fortunately the lighting rig was very good - I seem to remember that I could achieve 1/500s, f/2.8 at ISO1250... a real luxury! So that put me in a 'comfort zone' of sports.

I've only shot boxing on three occasions though, so I have a huge amount to learn. Practice makes perfect, but so does reading up on techniques and looking at images. I studied the work of the likes of Ed Mulholland - http://www.boxing-pics.com/ - and I even asked him to critique my first boxing shoot via ss.com earlier this year.

I'm a little bit more comfortable with boxing now... but it is still incredibly tough to photograph. The face-crunching impact shot is very hard to achieve... the impact seemingly only lasts a billionth of a second, so there's no point laying on the motordrive to capture it. You have to try to nail the timing, anticipating the punch... you almost feel like you're in the fight yourself at times ;)

The other 'uncomfortable' thing about boxing is that a bout can last for just a few seconds if you get an early knockdown - so you have to be prepared for that otherwise you'll end up with very few newsworthy pics!

The rewards are great though - I think some of my boxing pics are some of my personal faves. Here's a link to that first shoot I mentioned: http://www.sportsshooter.com/gmen/boxing/

I could go on and on :lol: but I'll stop waffling now.

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Nation,

What you are referring to is related to "gestalt theory". Did a quick google and this is one of the first I found (http://chd.gse.gmu.edu/immersion/knowledgebase/strategies/cognitivism/gestalt/gestalt.htm). Hope you find it useful.

Don't let the following scare you :D

"Gestalt theory originated in Austria and Germany toward the end of the 19th century. Since then, Gestalt theory has evolved from a reaction to associativist theory to a school of thought that has become fundamental to several disciplines, including instructional design and learning theory."

Just have a look at the drawings in that site and you will get the idea.

[aam1234]

You have to try to nail the timing, anticipating the punch... you almost feel like you're in the fight yourself at times ;)

---- Gavin

You remind me of what somebody else said, the same as you did.

An American football photographer said something like " you have to know the tendencies of each team/coach so you can anticipate what will come next" or something like that. Which is basically what you are saying Gavin (I'm into American football as you can tell).

[gmen]

Don't let the following scare you :D

"Gestalt theory originated in Austria and Germany toward the end of the 19th century. Since then, Gestalt theory has evolved from a reaction to associativist theory to a school of thought that has become fundamental to several disciplines, including instructional design and learning theory."
I have to admit to being a little bit frightened :lol:

Briefly back to the subject of boxing...

Here's a gallery from my last shoot: http://www.photoshelter.com/va-gallery-show?G_ID=G0000bYZnjhcE7sw&V_ID=V0000N25BCFNOe0A

...and here's a very useful link on technique and equipment, scroll down to Robert Hanashiro's post in this thread (it's the fifth one): http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=8445


---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Yes the quote is very scary, but the theory is not. For photographers, it helps understand "cropping" that's all.

Ok, I'll be silent now :D

[nation]

Thanks for the insight gmen some intersting points to think about. Looks like you hit the money shot in the lower left of your boxing gallery :)

Yes the quote is very scary, but the theory is not. For photographers, it helps understand "cropping" that's all.

Ok, I'll be silent now :D
If I've got it right - crop to the extent that you maintain context without distorting the perception?? Thanks for organising the thread by the way :)

[gmen]

Thanks for the insight gmen some intersting points to think about. Looks like you hit the money shot in the lower left of your boxing gallery :)
Thanks nation... that pic illustrates a point as the fight was over inside two minutes... the pic ran in the Boxing News here:

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/tearsheets/images/ts14.jpg

In this case it's not much of a crop - that's pretty much the full frame image. I was shooting with a 28-70mm lens and with hindsight it would have been nice to have zoomed out a little in this case (to show the canvas) - unfortunately my reactions weren't fast enough at the time!

If I've got it right - crop to the extent that you maintain context without distorting the perception?? Thanks for organising the thread by the way :)After a 'small' glass of beer, that's how I read it as well :lol:

Ok, I'll be silent now
Please don't! If you've got any more nuggets on the same lines as gestalt theory, bring 'em on!

---- Gavin

[Croasdail]

This is a great read... I wish there was a way you could let people over the sports forum know this is here. I am not keen on the new way of doing things and having to look in 4 or 5 different forums to find all things sports... anyway... my personal issue I guess.

I have had a million questions to ask Gavin... and now I can't think of a blasted one... dang it!

[gmen]

This is a great read... I wish there was a way you could let people over the sports forum know this is here. I am not keen on the new way of doing things and having to look in 4 or 5 different forums to find all things sports... anyway... my personal issue I guess.

I have had a million questions to ask Gavin... and now I can't think of a blasted one... dang it!Thanks Mark.

I've added a link to my signature to this thread so that might help a few of the sports forum folk spot it... and also feel free to chime in at any time! If anyone asks me about shooting volleyball for example, I'm going to come looking for you!

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Since you asked to "bring it on" I will bring it on :D

Your horse racing photos that you showed us here (which I linked to previously) is really something special. Wish you do more horse racing. You made it into an art.

[gmen]

Since you asked to "bring it on" I will bring it on :D

Your horse racing photos that you showed us here (which I linked to previously) is really something special. Wish you do more horse racing. You made it into an art.Funnily enough, there is a brand new racecourse under construction just a few miles from where I live... http://www.greatleighs.com/index.php - not sure whether I'll end up shooting there professionally or recreationally, but it'll definitely provide more opportunities.

---- Gavin

[MTalley]

One of your earlier posts reminded me of a long-time sports shooting question.

You mentioned that you like to shoot into the sun - ring lighting effect and all. I've also read this in a sports photography book (the author's name eludes me, but he is a SportsShooter member). He, also, liked to shoot into the sun if for no other reason than everyone else tends not to, so he gets the one side of the field to himself.

He also mentioned that it made it easier to get good exposure on the faces. I also remember him mentioning that he shoots with the camera's contrast cranked down to a minimum - I think for the same reason.

I've tried this on occasions on the (youth) soccer fields with less than favorable results (i.e. ended up post-processing and messing around with levels until the background is almost blown out). I've been shooting manual in those circumstances. Could it be I've just metered incorrectly for shooting towards the sun? I'm using the 70-200mm f/4L with the lens hood.

[LMP]

Crikey, I've only just found this thread. Some excellent reading here which I'll sit down too with a cuppa in the office in the morning.

Thanks Gavin :)

[fslshooter]

Great thread Gavin and thanks for taking the time to do it!! It'll be a daily read for me :D :D . Now the folks who don't frequent the sports forum will have the opportunity to meet the guru of team sports photography.

[gmen]

You mentioned that you like to shoot into the sun - ring lighting effect and all. I've also read this in a sports photography book (the author's name eludes me, but he is a SportsShooter member). He, also, liked to shoot into the sun if for no other reason than everyone else tends not to, so he gets the one side of the field to himself.

He also mentioned that it made it easier to get good exposure on the faces. I also remember him mentioning that he shoots with the camera's contrast cranked down to a minimum - I think for the same reason.
I think the chap you're referring to might be Brad Mangin...

http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=11467 - have a read of the third post in this thread... also look at the posts by Thomas Witte and Ron Scheffler lower down.

I've tried this on occasions on the (youth) soccer fields with less than favorable results (i.e. ended up post-processing and messing around with levels until the background is almost blown out). I've been shooting manual in those circumstances. Could it be I've just metered incorrectly for shooting towards the sun? I'm using the 70-200mm f/4L with the lens hood.

Shooting into the sun, use an incident meter reading... or overexpose by 2 stops (or more) over the reading off the grass. This technique can help you control contrast if the sun is harsh and can have a very dramatic effect on the images. Just remember when shooting backlit to expose fully for the subject, unless you intend to have a silhouette. The backgrounds should take care of themselves... yep, the sky will blow out... but if you're shooting towards bleachers/stands then they should appear as a dark backdrop to the players.

Another thing to consider is controlling the flare. Some tips: shoot tighter, clean your front element thoroughly, try shooting without a filter, 'extend' your lens hood using your hand if necessary.

You'll probably still need to restore some contrast to the final image if shooting into low sun. Here's an example I posted in an earlier thread in the sports forum...

Before - straight out of the camera (washed out and frightening!):

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/sun01.jpg

After - adding a bit of contrast to restore the 'pop':

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/sun02.jpg

Here's a shot against a nice dark background... the rim lighting helps the players stand out:

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/gm107.JPG

Hope that's useful MTalley.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Crikey, I've only just found this thread. Some excellent reading here which I'll sit down too with a cuppa in the office in the morning.
Thanks Gavin :)Cheers Marc... It'll probably read better after a few beers rather than a cuppa :lol:

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Great thread Gavin and thanks for taking the time to do it!! It'll be a daily read for me :D :D . Now the folks who don't frequent the sports forum will have the opportunity to meet the guru of team sports photography.Thanks Jerry... watch out for a PM if anyone asks me a baseball question :lol:

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Just a quick note to say that the weekend is going to be a busy one for me (starting tonight in fact)... but please keep posting your questions, I will get round to answering all of them as quickly as I can! Thanks to everyone who has contributed/commented so far ;)

Cheers,

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Hi Gavin,

Just wanted to point out to our North American and other parts of the world friends that, as you can see, Gavin lives in the UK, so there might be a lag between the question and Gavin's answer due to the difference in time/zone.

[fslshooter]

Thanks Jerry... watch out for a PM if anyone asks me a baseball question :lol:

---- Gavin

Gavin - Don't hesitate to ask; however, if the question relates to anything other than how the game is played I'll feel like a student attempting to assist the maestro.

[DavidEB]

Gavin -- nothing specific to ask, but I want to thank you for this thread and for other useful learnings you've posted. You've certainly helped my shooting.

Oh, yeah, I do have one question... can you explain cricket?

thanks again,

[LMP]

Gavin, I have one for you that should be simple :)


Which metering mode do you have your camera set too:

Evaluative
Partial
Spot
Centerweighted
AF Point linked

Cheers

[gmen]

Gavin -- nothing specific to ask, but I want to thank you for this thread and for other useful learnings you've posted. You've certainly helped my shooting.

Oh, yeah, I do have one question... can you explain cricket?

thanks again,Thanks David!

I'll do you a deal - I'll swap an explanation of cricket for an explanation of how the fouls work in basketball!

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Gavin, I have one for you that should be simple :)


Which metering mode do you have your camera set too:

Evaluative
Partial
Spot
Centerweighted
AF Point linked

CheersHi Marc,

Since I shoot in manual much of the time, the mode isn't generally relevant.

If I switch to a semi-auto exposure mode, then I'll often be in partial metering mode - or sometimes evaluative. It will depend on the subject matter - the dreaded white shirts etc... even then I'll probably be dialing in some exposure compensation here and there as, basically, I don't fully trust the camera's meter. That's probably a surprising thing to say about a camera that cost the best part of £3000 :lol: but that's the way it is!

Hope you have a good day today - Thame United vs Stourport on the agenda I seem to remember? A bit of a relegation humdinger!

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Hi all,

I've just put together a gallery of images from my shoot last night - the match was Mansfield Town vs Grays Athletic in the FA Cup 2nd Round.

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/mansfield_grays/

The editing is pretty rough and ready as it was carried out at 2am! However, the gallery may be of interest as the basic EXIF data appears below each image. As you'll see the action shots are in general at 1/400s, f/2.8 ISO 3200. The floodlighting was pretty poor considering that the match was held at a Football League venue... in fact, I've experienced better at many non-League grounds.

However, you have to make the best of a bad job. The images attempt to tell the story of a game that Grays lost, not least due to some 'dubious' refereeing decisions, including a quick-fire sending-off inside the first few minutes. As you'll see the manager put on a brave face at the end of the proceedings.

It was also a first run-out for a 400mm f/2.8 lens. Not the best conditions, but I was generally pleased with having some extra reach in low light.

---- Gavin

[PhotosGuy]

Great shots, Gavin! I'm curious why the pics are 300-400KB? Seems like that only encourages people to try to print them. I generally try for about 60-70KB just to discourage that.

[gmen]

Great shots, Gavin! I'm curious why the pics are 300-400KB? Seems like that only encourages people to try to print them. I generally try for about 60-70KB just to discourage that.Thanks Frank...

The actual jpgs supplied to the paper are around 300-400KB (as per the EXIF data) but these are not linked to the web gallery (those files were e-mailed or sent via FTP). As you'll know that file size and dimensions are suitable for newspaper reproduction.

The images with the copyright banner across them in the web gallery are all around 100KB (so printable but noticeable I guess) and the thumbs are about 20k.

---- Gavin

[Otta]

Gavin , This is superb and thanks for your time . I have a question for you . I want to set up my lap to to enable me to send images directly from it . Could you advise on what I need.

Thanks again
Roy

[gmen]

Gavin , This is superb and thanks for your time . I have a question for you . I want to set up my lap to to enable me to send images directly from it . Could you advise on what I need.

Thanks again
Roy
Hi Otta,

I'm going to assume you're using a Windows machine, since that's what I'm most familiar with - but the same general principles apply for Macs.

There are three transmission methods that I'm aware of:

1. Via a mobile phone network

2. Via a wireless network

3. Via a hardwired connection

Dealing with each in turn:

1. This is the method I use most frequently. I use one of these Vodafone 3G PCMCIA cards: http://www.itreviews.co.uk/hardware/h592.htm - for it to work effectively you will need to be in a good signal area, otherwise it will default to GPRS (i.e. pretty slow) transmission speeds. It is, however, a solution for sending from pretty much any location. Orange also manufacture a card to use on their network. The Vodafone version will work with a Mac... I'm not sure about the Orange one.

2. If the venue has a wireless connection, this is an excellent method for transmission. Sadly the venues I frequent do not generally have this facility :lol: The alternative is to locate a WiFi hotspot near to the venue and transmit from there. Some resources for WiFi hotspots: http://www.thecloud.net/ and http://www.press-photos.com/html/how/tech&equip/wifihotspot.html. You may need to add a PCMCIA WiFi card to your laptop if it doesn't have built-in WiFi capabilities. If you have a Mac then you'll need an AirPort card I believe.

3. If the venue has a press box/room/centre, you may have the good fortune to be able to utilise a hard-wired connection. Check with the venue to see if such a beastie exists.

Obviously you'll also need suitable software on your machine. This will depend on your client's preferred method for receiving images. E-mail is widely used as is (the more reliable method of) FTP. So having both types of software installed is a good idea.

A package like PhotoMechanic - http://www.camerabits.com/pages/PM4.html - will let you sort, edit, caption and FTP your images from within one application.

Hope that's useful info.

---- Gavin

[Otta]

Gavin ,

Thankyou for such a quick response.

Roy

[gmen]

Gavin ,

Thankyou for such a quick response.

Roy
No problem Roy... Hope the info was helpful.

For those that are interested, I've just posted a few images from today over in the sports forum: http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=117885 - not exactly action stuff, but with a sporting theme ;)

---- Gavin

[Croasdail]

May I just add that most locations I have shot at recently have wi-fi available meaning you can transmit right from the field\pitch. If that isn't available I have a bluetooth phone that I use it's broadband connection to connect. The bad news is you miss out on all the snacks and treats in the media room - which I don't need anyway. But this is for the US... but I can't imagine this doesn't work well also in the UK as you all have better wireless then we do. Sorry gavin for the high-jacking here... cheers.

[LMP]

Hi Marc,

Since I shoot in manual much of the time, the mode isn't generally relevant.

If I switch to a semi-auto exposure mode, then I'll often be in partial metering mode - or sometimes evaluative. It will depend on the subject matter - the dreaded white shirts etc... even then I'll probably be dialing in some exposure compensation here and there as, basically, I don't fully trust the camera's meter. That's probably a surprising thing to say about a camera that cost the best part of £3000 :lol: but that's the way it is!

Hope you have a good day today - Thame United vs Stourport on the agenda I seem to remember? A bit of a relegation humdinger!

---- Gavin

Yea not a bad day out, if a little COLD!! I posted some pics from the game over in 'sports'..

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=117900

A bit on the dull side from the camera, I've had a few helpers with making them a bit more pleasing on the eye.

Any chance you can give some hints and tips on what gives your pics that trademark 'pop'....your subjects seem to jump out of the screen at me :confused:

[Croasdail]

okay - general question here. This last weekend I was at a venue where I had to choose between ISO 800 @ 1/500 or ISO 1600 @ 1/1000. I was only at the place for about 45 minutes... and I bounced around a lot on ISO settings. For Coach and bench shots I even went down to ISO 400 @ 1/250. Ideally I would like to be able to toggle on the fly between the two... but having to choose - where would you land... a little finger blur - or noiselessness. This time out - I got lucky and found a location where I could get a flat black background... so it worked out.. but for future reference. Thanks.

[gmen]

Yea not a bad day out, if a little COLD!! I posted some pics from the game over in 'sports'..

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=117900

A bit on the dull side from the camera, I've had a few helpers with making them a bit more pleasing on the eye.

Any chance you can give some hints and tips on what gives your pics that trademark 'pop'....your subjects seem to jump out of the screen at me :confused:
Hi Marc,

Some great pics there from that relegation tussle! What kind of crowds do nomadic Thame get nowadays?

As for the 'pop'... there are a few factors I suppose:


Working with the lens wide open (and the 'L' factor)
Being lucky with a nice clean background - sometimes I even plan for that :lol:
Adding some USM after resizing for the web - the settings will vary slightly depending on the ISO but I generally use amount 300%, radius 0.2, threshold 0. I'll up the threshold a tadge if I'm at ISO1600 or ISO3200.


Cheers

---- Gavin

[gmen]

okay - general question here. This last weekend I was at a venue where I had to choose between ISO 800 @ 1/500 or ISO 1600 @ 1/1000. I was only at the place for about 45 minutes... and I bounced around a lot on ISO settings. For Coach and bench shots I even went down to ISO 400 @ 1/250. Ideally I would like to be able to toggle on the fly between the two... but having to choose - where would you land... a little finger blur - or noiselessness. This time out - I got lucky and found a location where I could get a flat black background... so it worked out.. but for future reference. Thanks.
That's a tough question Mark :confused: :lol:

One factor that comes is mind is the client. If you're shooting for a paper then taking the higher ISO route isn't really going to be a problem... you'll be aiming to avoid any motion blur if at all possible and the faster shutter speed is what will be required.

However, if you're shooting primarily to sell prints, then the temptation is to move to a lower ISO. This might also be true if you're shooting for a magazine perhaps, where your image might be used across a larger area. But... if you lower the ISO and end up with a whole bunch of blurred images, then you might not be selling any of 'em.

I think you're talking about hoops here though. If so, then I'd think that 1/500s is a very acceptable shutter speed, as the ball/players don't move around quite as quickly as in football (of either variety). Yep, you might get a bit of finger blur but not enough to deter the 'average' punter from purchasing a print from you.

I'd be happy to shoot hoops at 1/500s, f/2.8 at ISO1600. I might still change the ISO if I had time when shooting sideline stuff, but not always. My primary client is usually the paper, but I'd still be happy at ISO1600 that the images would hold up pretty well for prints if the clubs wanted any.

I've sold so many prints now that have been shot at ISO1600 and ISO3200 that I don't get quite as paranoid about it as I used to :lol:

Like I said, it's a tough question. I've seen some togs shooting basketball at 1/200s just to keep their ISO down to 800. I don't know what their 'success' rate is... I suppose the only way to find out is to try it myself ;) or not as the case may be.

---- Gavin

[MTalley]

Thanks for the tips on backlighting, gmen. The book I was trying to think about (but I was at work) is Digital Sports Photography by G. Newman Lowrance.

The below examples show what I was dealing with when shooting backlit. First is the "as shot" image (only reduced for the web). The second is my humble attempt at fixing it in PS. Note that the grass is extremely well lit and the trees (across the road) are much darker.

Anyone who cares to edit and post results are welcome to.

[gmen]

The below examples show what I was dealing with when shooting backlit. First is the "as shot" image (only reduced for the web). The second is my humble attempt at fixing it in PS. Note that the grass is extremely well lit and the trees (across the road) are much darker.Anyone who cares to edit and post results are welcome to.
Hi Malcolm,

A quick attempt here:

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/dark.jpg

Just adjusted levels and then a quick blast of the shadow/highlight tool. The key to the backlit image is to expose fully for the subject - I think that the original exposure was possibly a stop or so under. A bit more exposure in camera and the final result can be more pleasing - just requiring contrast to be restored. It also helps to lower the in-camera contrast parameter if you're shooting jpegs, that seems to give a bit more headroom to increase the contrast afterwards without bashing the highlights too hard. However, I'm no PS guru :lol: so I'm sure there are other (better) ways to improve an underexposed, backlit image.

---- Gavin

[PhotosGuy]

Here's my "quick=&=dirty" fix.
Select the highlights: Ctrl-shift- ~
Invert the selection: Ctrl-I
Copy to a new layer: Ctrl-J
In the Layers Menu, select Screen mode.
In the Layers Menu, select a Layer Mask, "hide all".
Make sure that the mask has a double line around it, (or click on it).
Select white & a brush @ about 30%, & paint on the pic where you want to lighten.
Another example using Masks (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=108256) is here. Try combining that one with this. I didn't do it to avoid confusion.

[gmen]

Here's my "quick=&=dirty" fix.
Select the highlights: Ctrl-shift-~
Invert the selection: Ctrl-I
Copy to a new layer: Ctrl-J
In the Layers Menu, select Screen mode.
In the Layers Menu, select a Layer Mask, "hide all".
Make sure that the mask has a double line around it, (or click on it).
Select white & a brush @ about 30%, & paint on the pic where you want to lighten.
Another example using Masks (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=108256) is here. Try combining that one with this. I didn't do it to avoid confusion.Nice technique Frank... I'll certainly have a dabble with that sometime soon!

Also, just to say, I've just posted some hoops-related images over in the sports forum:

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=118534

---- Gavin

[PhotosGuy]

Thank's. I stole it from someone else! The hardest thing about PS is finding the "hidden" features, isn't it?
Also, just to say, I've just posted some hoops-related images over in the sports forum: EVERYONE! Let's hear it for the cheerleaders! :D
http://photo.klein-jensen.dk/smilies/cheer2.gif

[LMP]

I'm glad it wasn't just me that found the cheerleader's shot 'interesting' ;)

[LMP]

I forgot to add above (too caried away with the cheerleaders!), in the BB thread you have put your pics into differnet web galleries for reasons stipulated by clients. In your experience do you think it would be worthwhile knocking up small web galleries and linking to them to try and tempt the (in my case) local papers that have previously said 'they wouldnt be interested due to budeget restrictions' ? ;)

[MTalley]

Thanks for all the tips and comments on the backlighting issue. Gmen, I always shoot with a custom setting in my 300D with Contrast set to the minimum possible (slid all the way to the left). However, I was not exposing for the dark subject, but probably had it on evaluative (if I was shooting Av, which is typical). I've been trying to use Manual mode more, but I tend to expose for the grass (+2/3 stop), which would cause the above cited example, too.

Anyway, for now, I'm going to probably remain safe and shoot with the sun to my back and dabble with more backlit scenes as time permits.

I'd like to keep post-processing to a minimum (Levels and/or Shadow/Highlight is fine, in general).

[gmen]

I forgot to add above (too caried away with the cheerleaders!), in the BB thread you have put your pics into differnet web galleries for reasons stipulated by clients. In your experience do you think it would be worthwhile knocking up small web galleries and linking to them to try and tempt the (in my case) local papers that have previously said 'they wouldnt be interested due to budeget restrictions' ? ;)
Absolutely, a small web gallery of images can be made available to various editors. It's simply a case of sending them a link and inviting them to view your shots.

Keep it simple, show some peak action and some news, add captions - half a dozen pics or so is plenty. Try not to swamp them with galleries... but the occasional message will help them keep you in mind when the jobs come along. Try to keep the pics 'relevant'... and 'remind' them of your rates each time ;)

---- Gavin

[burntbizzkit]

Thanks for taking the time to do this Gavin. I have learned a lot from this thread already. I have another question for you:

As someone who shoots mostly in jpeg, how do you set your white balance when shooting basketball or other sports with akward lighting? I have found with RAW, it's fairly easy to correct the white balance after the shot is taken, but it doesn't work too well with jpeg.

[gmen]

Thanks for taking the time to do this Gavin. I have learned a lot from this thread already. I have another question for you:

As someone who shoots mostly in jpeg, how do you set your white balance when shooting basketball or other sports with akward lighting? I have found with RAW, it's fairly easy to correct the white balance after the shot is taken, but it doesn't work too well with jpeg.Hi burntbizzkit...

For my sins, I am a great believer in Auto White Balance :lol: Generally for outdoor sports and even under floodlighting outdoors I leave the camera set to AWB. The end result is usually very acceptable. If there is a residual colour cast on a jpeg image, I tend to use the 'Selective Colour' tool in PS to tweak the colours.

As per my earlier post, with indoor lighting, I am shooting more frequently in RAW particularly if the deadlines are not tight. I simply shoot a grey card at the start of an event and use that to balance the WB for the rest of the shoot.

The big problems arise when the venue is lit by the dreaded vapour lamps where the colour temperature varies from image to image as the lamps go through their output cycle. Worse still some images may show a gradient of colour temperature if you catch them at the wrong time! If I'm providing editorial images, I try not to get too paranoid about this and just do some basic tweaking - if someone requests a print then I will do some more work on the colours in PS... in these situations shooting in RAW helps a little bit but doesn't save the day unfortunately.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

I'm glad it wasn't just me that found the cheerleader's shot 'interesting' ;):lol: You're definitely not alone!

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Just to say I've posted some recent football action over in the sports forum for those that are interested: http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=982253#post982253

Some of the images are shot with a recently acquired 400mm f/2.8L - which has different, er..., 'handling characteristics' to the 300mm + 1.4x extender combo that I have been working with!

---- Gavin

[DwightMcCann]

Why didn't someone tell us this was here? Oh, wait, they did! Gavin, glad to know this thread is here ... I have been overtaken by events once again on my "remote equipment" questions but this may be a good spot. My biggest question got resolved by RTFM, poor as it was. But I still have significant questions about the Magic Arm (or whateever it is called.) My Q&A thread here also seemed to go in fits and starts ... guess I should go bump it with a link to my boxing ring setup movie! Anyway, I'll be back.

Aam, it might be better to let the authors start their own threads so they show up in Threads Started by User in the search engine.

[aam1234]

Aam, it might be better to let the authors start their own threads so they show up in Threads Started by User in the search engine.

By all means. That's a good idea.

There was a "notice" posted in the Sports section that leads interested people here. Here it is (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=117470)if you'd like to have a look Dwight.

[gmen]

Why didn't someone tell us this was here? Oh, wait, they did! Gavin, glad to know this thread is here ...
:lol: Welcome aboard Dwight... good to see you here!

I've just added some hoops images over in the sports forum, some of which are shot with the 300mm f/2.8L: http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=983111#post983111

---- Gavin

[gmen]

It's amazing how all the kit comes in handy at one time or another.

---- Gavin

[burntbizzkit]

That's pretty :)

What's that third camera on top with the grip? Is it a 10d? Also why do you have two different monopods? I couldn't imagine carrying two monopods at the same time! :)

[aam1234]

You just set yourself up for trouble (questions) Gavin...be prepared, very prepared :D

[burntbizzkit]

You just set yourself up for trouble (questions) Gavin...be prepared, very prepared :D

Yes, indeed...as demonstrated by me :)

EDIT: One way to reduce the amount of questions would be to repost the image with labels for all the items :)

[gmen]

That's that third camera on top with the grip? Is it a 10d? Also why do you have two different monopods? I couldn't imagine carrying two monopods at the same time! :)
Yep, it's a 10D... it's a superb back-up. It doesn't see a lot of action, but it's there if I need it.

...and, as for two monopods, I usually keep one of 'em in the boot of the car at all times - nothing worse than arriving at a venue and finding you've left your monopod at home! I'd rather have two than none ;)

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

EDIT: One way to reduce the amount of questions would be to repost the image with labels for all the items :)

That's what I was thinking too.

[gmen]

That's what I were thinking too.
Bizarrely, I was thinking the same thing as well *lol* leave it with me!

---- Gavin

[bigrob]

Hi Gavin

Love the whole thread. Pic of your gear is amazing. Does the 400 F2.8 come with a free course of Anabolic Steroids?

Now to my point from an earlier quote

Shooting into the sun has other benefits as well - e.g. beautiful rim-lighting - but it's not for the faint-hearted

Can you please explain or give an example of what you mean by rim-lighting?

[gmen]

Hi Gavin. Can you please explain or give an example of what you mean by rim-lighting?
Hi Rob,

Here's a recent example (apologies for the repeat post of this image ;) )

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/gm006.JPG

The backlighting provides a bright 'rim' to the subject matter that helps it stand out from the background.

---- Gavin

[LMP]

OMG...what a setup!!!! That 400mm makes the 300mm look tiny :)

Oh well...here's to having dreams !

[gmen]

The 400mm is significantly larger than the 300mm Marc.

---- Gavin

[bigrob]

Excellent Gavin - Thanks about the RIM lighting.

Thanks for your email about the 300 F4 by the way. I am just in the process of ordering one.

Now I see you have numbered your gear - is this a competition to work out exactly what you have and how much it cost in £££££££££££££££££ ????

[gmen]

Now I see you have numbered your gear - is this a competition to work out exactly what you have and how much it cost in £££££££££££££££££ ????
:lol: Nope, it was simply in response to this request:

One way to reduce the amount of questions would be to repost the image with labels for all the items :)

;)

---- Gavin

[bigrob]

Gavin - here's a shot I took before I starting tips from you (of my future step son - he's the one in white).

When I first looked at it I was really pleased.

Now I look at it and think - I should have been nealing down. It would have been so much better.

I have now visited my loft and got an old cushion which I will take with me. Should help the old knees on the cold and muddy UK ground.

Moocho Gracias once again.

[bigrob]

Ooops - here's the pic

[aam1234]

That's a great pic bigrob, love it!

[gmen]

Ooops - here's the picIt's a super image... the so-called rules are made to be broken. I think the pic works from this angle - the grass makes a great backdrop. The only way the image could be improved would be if the other two players weren't in the background... but there's no way you can plan for that... short of 'staging' the shot.

Great stuff.

---- Gavin

[DwightMcCann]

Gavin, your #21 description does not enumerate the ball head that is attached.

Do you have a preference for monopod? Would you get something different if you were getting another one?

[gmen]

Gavin, your #21 description does not enumerate the ball head that is attached.
You have eagle eyes Dwight... I shall update accordingly!

Do you have a preference for monopod? Would you get something different if you were getting another one?
I like the Manfrotto monopods mainly because I prefer flip locks to the twist locks on the Gitzo equivalents.

I also like the fact that you can disassemble the Manfrotto monopods to clean them - the occasional piece of grit that has fouled the mechanism is easily removed - an allen key and a screwdriver is all that is needed.

---- Gavin

[DwightMcCann]

Not so much eagle eyes as a devout attention to this area of equipment since I spent so much emulating your kit! As for monopod, I have a very lightweight Gitzo (that I don't use) and need something will hold my 300mm f2.8 with 1DMII so I can not use it more steadily, sigh. I'm shooting Joe Nichols Toys for Tots Benefit tonight.

[gmen]

Not so much eagle eyes as a devout attention to this area of equipment since I spent so much emulating your kit! As for monopod, I have a very lightweight Gitzo (that I don't use) and need something will hold my 300mm f2.8 with 1DMII so I can not use it more steadily, sigh. I'm shooting Joe Nichols Toys for Tots Benefit tonight.
Enjoy your shoot tonight Dwight!

If you get on with the Gitzo twisting leg locks, then this is certainly the monopod of choice: http://www.kirkphoto.com/g1588.html - a pal of mine has one and it is chunky but nice and light.

EDIT: If you prefer a 'pod with a bit of weight, then the Manfrotto 680B is stonkingly good - 4 section so it folds small and mighty sturdy.

---- Gavin

[MTalley]

Did someone say get down low? I always do. Not sure about over in the UK, but here in the US (at least in my area) hunting is king. I stopped by the local hunting supply store and picked up a small folding stool to sit on when I shoot kid's soccer.

My last weekend on the field, I decided to really get down low. I was laying on the ground (fortunately it was dry) to shoot some of the 4, 5 and 6 year olds:

http://www.pbase.com/talleyfamilyphotography/image/52637403.jpg

Getting down to their level (or below, sometimes) really makes a ton of difference.

http://www.pbase.com/talleyfamilyphotography/image/52637405.jpg

[gmen]

Did someone say get down low?...Getting down to their level (or below, sometimes) really makes a ton of difference.
Brilliant shots Malcolm. The lower position really gives the pics huge impact - as a viewer I feel like I'm part of the game. Great work!

I don't often get the chance to lie down, but I do try and stay as low as possible - either sitting on a small folding stall or on my Peli case. At some grounds, the photographers' positions are below pitch level which gives this pleasing effect where the horizon line runs neatly along the bottom of the image:

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/low001.jpg

I've also been experimenting recently with some wide low shots, by simply holding the camera near to ground level rather than physically lying down. This shot shows the Grays players warming up in front of the main stand at Mansfield recently:

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/low002.jpg

I'm a big advocate of the low vantage point. It's not to say that a higher position doesn't work as well... the high spot can provide nice clean backgrounds (i.e. the pitch itself), however, it's not always conducive to seeing the faces of the participants. Also, most of the grounds I work at have very low (or no) stands :lol:

---- Gavin

[Otta]

Hi Gavin ,

I have a question for you on the 550 / 580 flashguns.
Do you shoot manual with this as well .

Just wondering if you have any tips .

Thanks

Roy

[gmen]

Hi Gavin ,

I have a question for you on the 550 / 580 flashguns.
Do you shoot manual with this as well .

Just wondering if you have any tips .

Thanks

Roy
Hi Roy,

Indoors, I usually have the camera set to manual exposure when shooting with flash. I set the manual exposure depending on whether I want the background to register in the final image or not. I then modify the flash exposure to correctly expose the subject using FEC (flash exposure control)... or sometimes I will set the gun to manual as well (see the basketball example below).

Here's some info on indoors flash that I posted previously over in the sports forum:

-------

"Flash.... hmmm.... well, see if this helps a little for starters, I was just replying to an e-mail enquiry about shooting head and shoulders shots indoors with flash. This is part of the finished reply - some of which is relevant...

"Flash photography can be a fairly unpredictable beast, even with all this digital technology at our fingertips.

I'm sure we all have our own techniques for shooting these sort of indoor head and shoulder shots. This is my recipe... bear in mind this is using an external flash where you have some flash exposure control (FEC) either on the flash and/or via the camera body.

The key thing is to separate the FLASH exposure from the AMBIENT exposure.

The first question to ask yourself is whether or not you want the background to show up in the final image. Remember to position your subject well away from walls, etc.

Pop your camera into manual mode, set an exposure of, say, 1/125s, f/5.6 at ISO200. Turn your flash OFF. Take a picture of the area that will appear in the background of your head and shoulders shot. Have a look at your image on the LCD. Nice and dark!This probably what you would like to achieve - so stick with that exposure for the AMBIENT light.

If you do decide that you want some background detail to show up in your final image, then dial the shutter speed down and/or up the ISO. You can also open the aperture up a little if you wish - but remember you're shooting a portrait and you'll probably want the facial features nice and sharp. If you open up too far then that may not be the case in the final image. Again take a pic as above with the flash OFF. Tweak until you're happy with the background exposure.

Bear in mind, you can do all this before you start taking the player pics, so you're not keeping them waiting

OK. So bring on the first player/victim (this one is the guinea pig, so keep him/her chatting). This is now the FLASH part of the equation - the AMBIENT part is now entirely predictable.

Let's assume the players have nasty white shirts as above. Turn the flash ON - leave it set it to ETTL. Set the flash exposure compensation to +1. Compose the pic. Take the pic. Chimp. Look at the histogram. Keep the player chatting. Is the exposure OK? If it's well under, add a little more FEC. If it's overexposed - i.e. the highlights are blown, dial the FEC down. This first shot is the critical one. Shoot again if required with your new FLASH exposure settings. Chimp. Job done.

(There are better ways of doing this using Flash Exposure Lock and the like... but this works for me in this situation)

Now leave everything alone as you carry on taking your player portraits. Keep in mind that if someone toddles along with a dark shirt on, you may need to tweak your FLASH settings again as above. Just dialling the FEC back down to zero should be enough for starters.

You have reasonable control using this method. This will minimise your post-production work and give you consistent exposures.

So to sum it up:

1. The exposure you set on the camera in manual mode is for AMBIENT light only.
2. The aperture you set on the camera influences the Depth of Field (obviously) but also the FLASH's working distance at a given ISO. An aperture of f/5.6 should be fine for this type of shot.
3. The FLASH exposure is modified by using the FEC. This part of the exposure recipe is influenced only by the reflectivity of the subject. Hence add some FEC if the subject is wearing bright clothing."

This is just one way of doing it. There are of course others with more or less control... and of course there's an endless discussion to be had regarding focal lengths, DOF, blah blah blah

For moving subjects, there's the matter of shutter speed vs flash duration to consider. Rear-curtain sync is probably preferable if you want your images of moving subjects to appear 'natural'."

-------

Remember if you are shooting action with flash and you are setting your exposure to record the ambient lighting, you may find that you will get a 'ghosting' or 'slow-sync' effect unless your shutter speed is reasonably high (i.e. at or close to the camera's sync speed). If you want to be sure to freeze action with flash then the flash needs to be the primary source of illumination.

When I'm obliged to shoot basketball with on-camera flash, in order to make the results 100% predictable, I set the camera AND flash to manual. I'll only be shooting in and around the key, so I can determine the correct exposure for that area (for both the flash and the ambient) and set that in stone. As long as I don't try to shoot the subject when it is too close or too far away, the results are acceptable - this is the nearest thing to setting up dedicated strobes at a venue. Here's an example of hoops with on-camera flash:

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/ge006.jpg

Not a fantastic result but at least the exposure is predictable... the play gets in and around the hoop and 'bang'. The flash was set to 1/4 manual power with a Stofen attached - the manual exposure I set on the camera was (I recall) 1/250s, f/4 at ISO1000. I now use a simple flash bracket to help avoid the background shadows.

Outdoors for fill, I sometimes plump for an easy life and choose Av on the camera with HSS (high speed sync) on the gun, again modifying the amount of fill with FEC.

Hope that helps a bit. There are many ways of skinning the same cat :lol:

Also, well worth a read for flash technique is Neil Turner's site:

http://www.dg28.com/technique.html

---- Gavin

[PhotosGuy]

I totally agree that all M is best sometimes. Fill light at sunset (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66353) - Here's something that will help you figure light fall-off in your head:
"The difference between a light at 2.8 feet & the same light at 4 feet is 1 stop.
Same for 8 feet to 11 feet.
Same for 16 feet to 22 feet.
Do you see where the difference between those numbers come from? They come from the The Rule of Inverse Squares & also correspond with f-stop numbers.
4 to 5.6 to 8 to 11 to 16 to 22 to 32 to 45; there's one stop difference in fall-off between them."

So suppose you're set up for the subject at 45' from you on M, & he's now coming toward you. Just dial down 1 f-stop & you're good to 32'. You'll only be 1/2 stop 'hot' down to about 27'.
This would be for a cam like the 300D. Higher end cams will allow you to change the FEC with a wheel I think, so that would be a better way to go then.

[aam1234]

General questions Gavin, if I may

1- Though you alluded to it earlier but let me ask about it. Why are you still at the local and "sometimes" national level. You certainly can go national full time, and even international. Is it because of family obligations, or maybe other reasons.

2- Forgot the original question, but let me ask about lenses (long primes) if I may. As silly as it may sound, it's been bugging me for a long time now.

You mentioned, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you've been using the 300+tc, and now the new 400...both are primes. My question is, how do you manage to take photos to your liking with a prime when the action is sometimes close, sometimes far. Do you carry a zoom with you also, or maybe another camera with a different lens. My apologies if this question is silly/stupid.

[DwightMcCann]

Oh, I like Aam's questions! They are insightful rather than "silly/stupid". I have wondered if you do this fulltime. I also noticed that most of fulltime professional sports photographers that I have worked beside tend to have two bodies with differing lenses most of the time ... they almost seem like secondary appendages!

[gmen]

1- Though you alluded to it earlier but let me ask about it. Why are you still at the local and "sometimes" national level. You certainly can go national full time, and even international. Is it because of family obligations, or maybe other reasons.

2- Forgot the original question, but let me ask about lenses (long primes) if I may. As silly as it may sound, it's been bugging me for a long time now.

You mentioned, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you've been using the 300+tc, and now the new 400...both are primes. My question is, how do you manage to take photos to your liking with a prime when the action is sometimes close, sometimes far. Do you carry a zoom with you also, or maybe another camera with a different lens. My apologies if this question is silly/stupid.
To answer your questions aam1234 ;)

1. I devote a lot of time to my photography... and the rewards are good, both from a financial and emotional standpoint. My old full-time day job has been squeezed down to ever-decreasing part-time hours - it was always my intention to run my own business full-time and that is coming to fruition. The reason that I continue to cover relatively local matches is to ensure I can spend plenty of time with my young family (my kids are just 1 and 2). A couple of years down the line and I might look to 'broaden' my horizons if the quality of my work is up to it... and as long as I don't become part of the photographic 'rat race'. I always want to have full control over my images and not give up my copyright. However, as the well-known agencies continue to control an ever-increasing proportion of the market, I may well need to 'diversify'.

2. Using a long prime can indeed be a limitation OR you can use it to your advantage. 'Zooming' :rolleyes: is still possible with a 300mm or 400mm lens, you simply rotate it from landscape to portrait position as the action gets closer to you... and, yep, I usually have a 70-200mm f/2.8L attached to another body - not that I pick it up that often. I'd rather capture a really tight crop with the long glass rather than zoom out that little bit too far and end up with a loose shot on the 70-200. Not to say that there aren't times the second body comes in handy though, to capture celebrations, etc. It's good to have it there, but not always the right move to use it. Sometimes I'm tempted to replace the 70-200 with a wider lens... or maybe I should start to use a third body :lol:

Hope that answers your questions aam1234.

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Answered them perfectly. Thanks.

[aam1234]

To answer your questions aam1234 ;)


Why the wink Gavin ;)

[DwightMcCann]

For me, too.

Next question ... what is your work flow for getting images to your client? I know we have touched on doing Wi-Fi from camera to laptop although I don't think either of us yet has a true application where this is optimal .... I just talked with my local photo editor and he says he couldn't handle the backend selecting and editing of images that it requires ... takes a large wire service type of organization to make that worthwhile. But do you take 300 images, throw out 200, select 20 and edit them and then email? Do you use FTP to the client's site? Do you deliver on CD?

And, of course, the always difficult issue: how and what do you charge? [Oh, I know this is too direct ... so give us whatever hints you are comfortable with.] My local newspaper pays me the princely sum of $40 a shoot no matter what it is ... kind of a joke as it barely pays for the petrol. I often turn them down or find a way to contribute the images so I don't have to go to the trouble to invoice.

[gmen]

Why the wink Gavin ;):lol: I had half an eye on Dwight's comment about your questions: "They are insightful rather than "silly/stupid"... and indeed they are. No-one has ever asked me about my photographic 'career' and I've only made 1500+ posts here!

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

:lol: I had half an eye on Dwight's comment about your questions: "They are insightful rather than "silly/stupid"
Gavin

Ha ha, we think alike. Thought Dwight was being hostile/sarcastic to me. But he is not. He is under a lot of pressure right now.

[DwightMcCann]

Busy, Aam, I'm busy! :-) But I have enough to do for at least three people, that's true. But I suspect Gavin had few slow moments ... if not from his photography then from his (unpictured) kids! Hey, let's see some family photos, Gavin!

[aam1234]

Hey, let's see some family photos, Gavin!

Yes! great idea. Personal pics, right now! :D

[aam1234]

Let's see how the G guy looks like. Don't worry, we don't expect to see a James Bond guy :)

[gmen]

Next question ... what is your work flow for getting images to your client?
There are four scenarios I guess:

1. Wiring during an event. Usually via a 3G modem and by e-mail or FTP depending on the client. This involves sending a small quantity of images (maybe 3-5) with minimum tweaking - crop, resize, caption, send.

2. Sending images after an event. More time to select and (sometimes) more time to tweak. Again images will be delivered by e-mail or FTP.

3. Some 'corporate' clients may require images to be delivered on a CD/DVD - a local authority I work for likes to receive my work in this form.

4. Web sales. Uploading galleries to satisfy numerous enquiries for prints. This may involve some more work in PS and will encompass a wider selection of pics.

In the first two (editorial) scenarios, I identify the images that are likely candidates for submission while I'm shooting. I voice tag them as I go along with basic caption info, usually the player numbers. This serves a two-fold purpose: (i) The relevant pics are easily found in the browser since they are tagged and (ii) it simplifies caption writing. In scenario 2, I may 'find' other images that are 'better' than the tagged ones if I have more time to review them.

And, of course, the always difficult issue: how and what do you charge?
I wish there was an easy answer to this one.

I won't divulge my arrangements with my regular editorial clients as they may differ from the arrangements that others have with them.

I have an hourly rate for 'corporate' shoots and for 'events'. I also have a rate for a basic T&I shoots.

I charge a flat rate for use of my images on local club websites and in local club programmes.

For stock editorial submissions in the UK, I generally refer to the NUJ approved rates.

For image licencing, I utilise various (online) resources to provide me with a negotiating position - e.g. http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm, www.alamy.com, etc.

I will not provide images for a byline. Unfortunately bylines cannot be traded for petrol ;) or any other goods for that matter.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Busy, Aam, I'm busy! :-) But I have enough to do for at least three people, that's true. But I suspect Gavin had few slow moments ... if not from his photography then from his (unpictured) kids! Hey, let's see some family photos, Gavin!www.tgsphoto.co.uk/chimps

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Let's see how the G guy looks like. Don't worry, we don't expect to see a James Bond guy :)
:lol: You must be joking... the back of my head can be seen in several of the pics here:

http://www.piczo.com/way2go-leopards?g=6142967&cr=2

I'm the chap sat on the floor of the court with the flash on a bracket!

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Oh my, how do you spell "angels"!

[aam1234]

:lol: You must be joking... the back of my head can be seen in several of the pics here:

http://www.piczo.com/way2go-leopards?g=6142967&cr=2

I'm the chap sat on the floor of the court with the flash on a bracket!

---- Gavin

Are we looking at the same pics? All I see is OOF BB pics.

[gmen]

Are we looking at the same pics? All I see is OOF BB pics.Yep... the only thing in focus and not affected by motion blur is the back of my head :lol: bottom middle of most of the pics :lol:

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Anyway, this my favorite pic. Delete it Gavin any time you wish.

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/chimps/chimps013.htm

[gmen]

Anyway, this my favorite pic. Delete it Gavin any time you wish.

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/chimps/chimps013.htm
Somehow I feel we are way off topic here :lol: but I'm glad you like it... as you can see I apply my sports photography techniques to portraits of my kids as well!

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Great & natural pic. God bless your family.

[gmen]

Great & natural pic. God bless your family.Many thanks aam1234. You may well also have noted the, errr...., 'film' camera that my mother is using. She has yet to be converted.. despite my best efforts!

---- Gavin

[aam1234]

Ha ha, wanted to mention that, but as you know, we can't upset mothers, let alone grandmothers. Great photo.

[DwightMcCann]

Geez, Aam, I thought he was pretty clever to get such high quality images of himself ... I'm sure it is part of his portfolio! :-) But I guess it is no different from those who don't reveal their true names, eh? But I love them kid shots!

Gavin, in scenarios #1, what do you mean by "wiring up a 3Gig modem"?

[gmen]

Geez, Aam, I thought he was pretty clever to get such high quality images of himself ... I'm sure it is part of his portfolio! :-) But I guess it is no different from those who don't reveal their true names, eh? But I love them kid shots!

Gavin, in scenarios #1, what do you mean by "wiring up a 3Gig modem"?:lol: I'll find one of me somewhere... give me time ;)

The 3G modem is a PCMCIA card that uses the mobile phone network to transmit data. It should operate at 3G (near broadband) speeds but generally defaults to GPRS (dial-up) speeds in many areas :rolleyes:

---- Gavin

[DwightMcCann]

Aha, very good. I also discussed connectivity issues with the local paper photo editor. While I can always walk into my office and have almost infinite speed to the internet (everything is slower than my connection) there are several areas with restricted access points on campus that they are starting to use ... we are a BIG industry in this town with a lot of news so the campus makes allowances for them ... I can get access to them also as a staff member. My laptop has the older Wi-Fi builtin (and USB 1.1) so I may get a card if I start shooting on campus for them ... although it is not my intention at $40 a pop. :-) I may also look into this at the casino although there is little motivation at present.

[revert]

First off I love these kinds of threads. I learn a ton from them, and really appreciate you guys taking the time to answer the questions. Now to my questions: how did you get started? Did you take college courses? How did you get that first published image? Thanks in advance!!

[LMP]

First off I love these kinds of threads. I learn a ton from them

You and me both :)

Gavin,

I may be taking things too far here but on top of your 'getting started' story whats the chances of letting us in on succesfull ways of approaching publications ? I seem to struggle in this area as I have said to you before. Is there a strict list of do's and dont's you keep to ? What does your initial phone call or email to a paper involve ? Do/Did you have an email template (dont worry I dont want to see it!) that you fire off in advance of a game to gauge interest ?

If so would it be along the lines of an introduction to who you are and what you do, then list a of set rates for use of one or multiple images ?

Hope that makes sense ? And also hope I'm not probing toooo deep...it's late, I should sleep!

[gmen]

First off I love these kinds of threads. I learn a ton from them, and really appreciate you guys taking the time to answer the questions. Now to my questions: how did you get started? Did you take college courses? How did you get that first published image? Thanks in advance!!
Thanks revert... glad the thread is proving useful!

I started taking sports (football) photos 'seriously' in the mid-80's when I used to write and edit the football programme at a Non-League club. It seemed sensible to have some pics in the programme, so I started to take them armed with a Canon AE1, some film (yep, film), a Canon 50mm f/1.8 and an 'independent' 135mm f/3.5 lens.

I upgraded to a Canon EOS-650 and a 70-210mm f/4 EF lens and I found myself contributing to the annual Non-League Directory and later a monthly magazine called 'Team Talk' - initially I was just providing routine stuff of my local club on spec, but the increasing 'quality' :rolleyes: of my work started to result in 'commissions', admittedly for a pittance at the time, but I was already making sure that I covered my costs one way or another. The local papers then became aware of me and it wasn't long before I was asked to start providing some pics. It was as simple as that really.

Over the last few years, my involvement with the papers has increased significantly and this has driven me to set up my own sports photo business, focusing on editorial work. I've worked pretty hard to get where I am now but there is a lot more hard work ahead! However, photography is something I have a huge passion for and I've always had the intention to run my own business, so it's pleasing that things are coming to fruition.

I did not study photography formally - in fact, I'm a maths graduate of all things. However, I have always had a strong interest in photography and I worked hard on fine-tuning my skills and absorbing as much technical information as possible. I felt more confident wielding my camera with a solid understanding of exposure, DoF etc... and I'd recommend that anyone intending to move into the 'professional' sphere would be well advised to do the same - you need to prepared for anything ;)

It was always my aim to be paid for my services... almost from day one. There were/are huge costs involved - and my 'business brain' has always urged me to cover those costs and make some profit at the same time. Shooting for free is not for me! I am little concerned that the industry is started to become 'flooded' with 'free' shooters - but I really don't want to dwell on that here. I'm already prepared to diversify if the free supply of images starts to adversely affect the editorial aspect of my business!

---- Gavin

[gmen]

What does your initial phone call or email to a paper involve ? Do/Did you have an email template (dont worry I dont want to see it!) that you fire off in advance of a game to gauge interest ?
I think all I can say on this subject is that I try to target any approaches to the needs of that specific publication and make it easy for them to see sample images... and, if the approach is successful, to provide images promptly and to make sure that my submissions are consistent with their requirements.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

While I'm here... I'll use this post to add in some other websites that I sometimes find of interest:

Dave Black Photography - http://www.daveblackphotography.com/ - take a look at the workshops

Press Photos.com - http://www.press-photos.com/

London Freelance.org - http://media.gn.apc.org/

Editorial Photographers UK - http://www.epuk.org/

Filmless Photos - http://www.filmlessphotos.ca/

---- Gavin

[Mike Smith]

GMEN, could you break down which lens(es) you use most frequently for each sport?

[revert]

Awesome story there!! Thanks for all the information. I'm sure I'll think of a few more questions that are floating around in this head of mine.

[DwightMcCann]

Gavin, I think you make an often overlooked point ... it was actually something coincidental that started you out ... working on a programme ... that lead you into this career. This seems to be a common theme for many of us. While I have been doing photography as a hobby for over 35 years, I got into websites to display my own images to family about seven years ago, then I did a Pro Bono website for a neighbor's business (a biker bar), that lead to shooting bands for the website adverts, that lead to shooting at another venue, that lead to working with Rick Barker and Nashville to You, who got me the Chumash Casino Resort agreement. It was this same pathway plus a lot of "chatting up" folks that lead to my winery client, Casa Cassara. Even though I live very close to Brooks Institute, which for many years was the creme-de-la-creme of photography schools where people actually flunked out even if they had money, I know more photographers who simply bootstrapped other interests into a photo business or very advanced hobby. And I am convinced that it is 50% luck, 50% skill and 200% hard work and preparation that lands the paying jobs.

[bigrob]

Gavin - have you thought about doing sports workshops ala Charlesu with his Glamour ones? Don't know if there would be a market, but it's a thought. I for one would be VERY interested.

[gmen]

GMEN, could you break down which lens(es) you use most frequently for each sport?
Hi Mike,

If I had to give a one line answer, it would be:

"The longest possible focal length I can get away with" ;)

I suppose my 'style' (if it can be called that) is to shoot tight with a minimum DoF. Obviously a whole bunch of limitations come into play - lighting... actual shooting positions... the very nature of the sport I'm covering, etc... - and those limitations influence the lenses that I generally use.

I'll summarise some of my preferences as follows:

Basketball - 85mm f/1.8 or 300mm f/2.8L
Football - 400mm f/2.8L or 300mm f/2.8L
Cricket - 300mm f/2.8L with 2x or 1.4x extender - next season the 400mm f/2.8L will probably get more use than the 300mm
Speedway - 300mm f/2.8L
Athletics - 400mm f/2.8L or 300mm f/2.8L
Boxing - 28-70mm f/2.8L
Cycling - 300mm f/2.8L

If I think of any more, I'll add them in to this post. I certainly like to shoot with primes... the 70-200mm f/2.8L doesn't get a mention, but it is often attached to a second body as a multi-purpose lens.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Awesome story there!! Thanks for all the information. I'm sure I'll think of a few more questions that are floating around in this head of mine.Keep 'em coming... answering questions is a good learning curve for me as well!

---- gavin

[DwightMcCann]

Gavin, do you print images yourself?

[fslshooter]

Gavin - 1) Do you use the standard focus screen that came on your mkII or an after market focus screen? 2) If an after market screen, which one do you use? 3) If you use the standard focus screen, do you employ any tricks to insure that you nail the focus? I seldom have to use manual focus but when I do I find the mkIIs focus screen inferior to some film SLR screens.

[PhotosGuy]

While I'm here... I'll use this post to add in some other websites that I sometimes find of interest: Those are excellent links Gavin! Tons of info in there!

[gmen]

Gavin - have you thought about doing sports workshops ala Charlesu with his Glamour ones? Don't know if there would be a market, but it's a thought. I for one would be VERY interested.:lol: Thanks for the thought Rob... I'm not sure how good a 'tutor' I'd be! I'd probably be too busy trying to get pics myself instead of offering help and advice...

Having said that, it could be good fun - perhaps it's something for the future and another part of the 'business plan' - if it ever happens, you'll be the first to know!

---- Gavin

[gmen]

I am convinced that it is 50% luck, 50% skill and 200% hard work and preparation that lands the paying jobs.I'd agree with that Dwight.

Sometimes, you just have to be in the right place at the right time... on the other hand, you can keep banging on some doors without any success. The reality encompasses a bit of both extremes.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Gavin, do you print images yourself?
For sale, no.

I provide my print sales through http://www.photobox.co.uk/ - they take a small commission, but the amount of time and energy that their service saves me means that I can maximise my customer service.

If the individuals or clubs are interested in buying pics, then I am able to set up a PhotoBox gallery, they pay by credit/debit card and they generally receive them through their door the following morning... the quality and packaging is also excellent. As long as I have a balance of more than £50 in my credit account, I can transfer it into my business account on a monthly basis.

Of course, I still offer the 'old-fashioned fill in an order-form and pay by cheque option' for those punters that don't like to use the net.


---- Gavin

[gmen]

Gavin - 1) Do you use the standard focus screen that came on your mkII or an after market focus screen? 2) If an after market screen, which one do you use? 3) If you use the standard focus screen, do you employ any tricks to insure that you nail the focus? I seldom have to use manual focus but when I do I find the mkIIs focus screen inferior to some film SLR screens.Hi Jerry! Thanks for your question...

1) I still use the standard focus screen that was supplied with the MkII
2) n/a
3) I agree that the standard screen isn't great for manual focus. However, the only sport that I sometimes use manual focus for is cricket... which fortunately is often played in bright conditions!

I do use the focus-preset feature on my longer glass so I can swiftly change focus to the goalmouth for example. I also 'register' an alternative focus point that I can switch to on the fly - this is usually an off-centre point to the right of the viewfinder that helps me to focus on a subject's face when the camera is in the portrait position.

However, you have inspired me to look at the focus screen options, as it would be nice to have a brighter, clearer viewfinder image :lol:

---- Gavin

[LMP]

On another note, since I started to use PhotoBox my average monthly print sales have more than trebled, so it looks like it was a reasonably wise move.


I'm guessing these are from playing staff and their reletives wanting a momento from the game to put on the sideboard ?

[gmen]

I'm guessing these are from playing staff and their reletives wanting a momento from the game to put on the sideboard ?Absolutely Marc... that's the market. They will see pics in the paper and contact me.

EDIT: I should also add that I have 'arrangements' with many of the clubs/organisations as well. I may also sell some pics through their shops on a commission basis or provide them with some small web images on the basis that they link to the galleries etc. It can get quite complicated at times, but it's often good to nurture some 'synergy' like this.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Again, while I'm here, I'll add a few links to some sources of inpiration:

www.albello.com
www.vincentlaforet.com
www.boxing-pics.com
www.chrisdetrick.com
www.gophotography.net
www.manginphotography.com
www.patrickeagar.com/crickethome.html
www.photoshelter.com
www.bobmartin.com
www.mike-patrick.com
www.donaldmiralle.com
www.sportsshooter.com

and here (http://www.photography-on-the.net) of course :)

---- Gavin

[LMP]

Absolutely Marc... that's the market. At almost every match I go to, a player will ask me how they can purchase a pic of themselves - therefore I provide a card and then upload a gallery to PhotoBox. It would be rude not to ;)

EDIT: I should also add that I have 'arrangements' with many of the clubs/organisations as well. I may also sell some pics through their shops on a commission basis or provide them with some small web images on the basis that they link to the galleries etc. It can get quite complicated at times, but it's often good to nurture some 'synergy' like this.

---- Gavin

Thanks Gavin, something I need to work on. I have some galleries online with PB but havnt really pushed this side of things. I'll have to speak with the MD tomorrow night. With a bit of luck I can pop something on the club notice board and leave some cards in the dressing room.

[LMP]

Some outstanding photography in those link Gavin, Bob Martin's work stands out most too me.

[fslshooter]

However, you have inspired me to look at the focus screen options, as it would be nice to have a brighter, clearer viewfinder image :lol:.

Thanks Gavin. If you find a better one, please let me know which one it is. Unfortunately my need for manual focus is usually under the worst conditions -- almost always through the net and with very low light.

[Croasdail]

Most intersting discussion about the career aspect Gavin. I love photography, and would do it more if I could. But with the "real" job requirements, and family, it is a difficult balance. I try to shoot twice a week, but am not sure that is enough to keep my feet in deep enough. Commitments of both time and money are hard to balance. The shots I took in the sports forum were done saturday afternoon, and there was a newpaper guy there without his photo companion. Normally I would have approached him and asked if he needed images, but I had promised to take my wife out for dinner and then to listen to a friends band... and there was not time to go back an get images to him.... so I just left without offering. Part of me says it was a opportunity missed - the other part just be happy with the school using the images... decisions - decisions.... Anyways, very informative.

Lastly - I suppose the plate in your photo is what you would suggest for taking those low to court shots with the wide angle lens? Would you still use the same plate or would you opt for another?

Cheers Gavin.

[gmen]

Thanks Gavin. If you find a better one, please let me know which one it is. Unfortunately my need for manual focus is usually under the worst conditions -- almost always through the net and with very low light.No problem Jerry. If and when I find a suitable screen, I'll drop you a PM.

---- Gavin

[gmen]

Lastly - I suppose the plate in your photo is what you would suggest for taking those low to court shots with the wide angle lens? Would you still use the same plate or would you opt for another?Hi Mark,

The Overxposed plate does the job - www.overxposed.com - highly recommended. Yep, you could make your own one - but it's not hugely expensive and saves all the hassle.

---- Gavin