Should I buy a D10?

[Stoneh]

I have been wanting to buy this camera for a while now, and thanks to great people and forums like this it has given me lots of useful info.... my analysis of all the posts re D10's image quality, focus errors, sharpness issues has made me rethink... I would like to put it to you guys and girls....

1) Are people not exagerating the D10? just because of its price.... are we compromising the main issue.. which is image quality...esp with normal canon lens, are people who have bought it trying to justify it buy ignoring the flaws?

2) It looks as though if you dont have the mega expensive L type lenses you are not going to get sharp crisp images. People have reported that their non L type lenses produced much clearer pictures on film, yet they seem soft except in centre for D10

3) Im just an enthuisiast, I own a G2 & some of the portraits ive taken with it are awesome in detail and sharpness. Canon had to design a superb lense for cameras like the G series, as the lenses are not interchangable. I rekon its the equivalent of a L type lens on an SLR so am i right in saying that, to get pictures as clean and sharp as a G2 or a G3 you are going to have to spend on a L type canon lense (obviously they will be better as the resolution is greater), which unfourtunately most people cant afford :(

I have nearly enough cash saved for the D10, im just a bit confused about image quality. I was looking to buy a D10 and the 28-135 UIS lens (dont want a wide angle yet)

I would love to see good pictures with standard lenses and not ultra expensive things which cost more than the body!

Thanks in advance

[CyberDyneSystems]

Stoneh,

You can take GREAT pics with reasonably priced lenses on the 10D!

Even those who are lucky enough to own "L" lenses will agree that many of Canons lower priced lenses are excellent and take wonderfull pics.

Some of those mentioned a lot are,.

50mm 1.8 @ only $70.00 you can't go wrong.
28-135 USM IS
135mm f/2.8 softfocus
100mm f/2.8 macro

... among others.

[daveh]

If you spend a lot of time reading forums before buying a product you'll come to the conclusion that everything you could conceivable buy is unreliable garbage. Many of the people on a web forum only went there because they had a problem (or thought they had a problem) so you get a very problem-biased view of the product.

stoneh wrote:
I would love to see good pictures with standard lenses and not ultra expensive things which cost more than the body!

It's funny that before digicams, I would have never thought to spend anywhere near as much for a body as for a good lens. Traditionally the camera is "just a box" and the lens takes the picture. Now with digital cameras, the "box" has an effect on the quality too.

[SoCal69]

stoneh wrote:

1) Are people not exagerating the D10? just because of its price.... are we compromising the main issue.. which is image quality...esp with normal canon lens, are people who have bought it trying to justify it buy ignoring the flaws?


I am quite happy with my 10D. I have not noticed any focus issues at all. I don't know whether or not there's a focus issue with some 10D's, but my focus seems to be on the money as far as I can tell, including shots with a long lens at short distances where my dof is minimal. The pics I get are as good as I was getting from my Nikon film SLRs.


2) It looks as though if you dont have the mega expensive L type lenses you are not going to get sharp crisp images. People have reported that their non L type lenses produced much clearer pictures on film, yet they seem soft except in centre for D10


Actually, I don't own any Canon brand lenses at all. Although I am sure that the Canon L lenses are as wonderful as people say they are, I have been perfectly satisfied with reasonably priced alternatives. I'm not a professional, so I am not sure the difference in quality justifies the cost for me. However, I have printed 8x10's from this camera/lens combination and they are wonderful.

3) Im just an enthuisiast, I own a G2 & some of the portraits ive taken with it are awesome in detail and sharpness. Canon had to design a superb lense for cameras like the G series, as the lenses are not interchangable. I rekon its the equivalent of a L type lens on an SLR so am i right in saying that, to get pictures as clean and sharp as a G2 or a G3 you are going to have to spend on a L type canon lense (obviously they will be better as the resolution is greater), which unfourtunately most people cant afford


I can't speak to the comparison since I don't own a G-series camera. If possible, borrow a 10D and snap some comparison pictures.


I would love to see good pictures with standard lenses and not ultra expensive things which cost more than the body!

if you like, email me and I can send you some examples using the non-canon lenses which I use.

[daveh]

stoneh wrote:
so am i right in saying that, to get pictures as clean and sharp as a G2 or a G3 you are going to have to spend on a L type canon lense (obviously they will be better as the resolution is greater), which unfourtunately most people cant afford :(

I haven't used a G2 but most P&S type digicams I've used have had optics that I would classify as "adequate". The G2 is probably better than that but I would be surprised if its lens was better than the $70 Canon 50mm f1.8.

[martcol]

I have a G2 and now have a 10D. There's no comparison! Don't get me wrong, the G2 is lovely and I had a lot of fun with it. The 10D is a Beast and the whole experience is different. Whilst you have to get used to the G2 and work with it the 10D really is a whole new experience and you are much, much more iinvolved in taking a photograph.

The L lens business is a different matter as is the whole lens thing. I had much more trouble deciding what lenses to get than buying the camera and you hear conflicting views on this and any other forum. The Canon 50mm is a good, cheap, starting place and does produce excellent results. You have to work out how much image quality you're prepared to compromise with other lenses. I am saving for an L lens but am really satisfied with the quality etc of my Canon 28-135 IS USM and Sigma 15-30. I can see they could be better but they do well.

The 10D takes lovely pictures handling colour and exposure perfectly. It has a look and feel of quality about it and I'm more than satisfied.

Get one!

[Morden]

It looks as though if you dont have the mega expensive L type lenses you are not going to get sharp crisp images. People have reported that their non L type lenses produced much clearer pictures on film, yet they seem soft except in centre for D10
Not what I've found! My EF 28-135 has gave me many great, sharp pictures from both my D60 and my 10D.

am i right in saying that, to get pictures as clean and sharp as a G2 or a G3 you are going to have to spend on a L type canon lense
No! No! And thrice, No!

By the way, I still have - and use - a G2. I bought a D60 last year, and recently got a 10D. I consider the G2 to be a great 'compact' camera, but the difference between that class of camera and a decent digital SLR like the 10D is immense! Given a good lens or two (don't need to be 'L'), the proper software, knowledge of how to use both hardware AND software, and a good 'workflow', you will be astounded by the quality of the photos that you get from your 10D. I was, when I got my D60 last year!

Good luck with your new kit!

P.S. I heartily recommend Canon's EF 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM; it's the only non-'L' lens that I own, but it is on my camera more than any of the others. It is a great 'everyday' lens, in my opinion.

[Stoneh]

This is all very encouraging!! I am planning to get the camera with a 28-135 UIS and the 50mm F1.8 lens. Im very happy and greatful with the response by you guys - this feedback will determine whether I will sacrifice the holiday amongst other things this year to get me hands on the D10.

I think that too many people started moaning about things which werent no fault of the camera system that put me off

[Gary Gibson]

NO...................you should buy a 10D

[martcol]

stoneh wrote:
I think that too many people started moaning about things which werent no fault of the camera system that put me off

Stoneh

I think that you have to measure what you read in the forum (any forum) although, I'd say this one is pretty ballanced which is partly why I enjoy my time here.

People want the best from their kit; it's understandable. But what's best for some is not for others. Then, I think you've also got the digital thing too where you can go out shoot 100 photos and examine them instantly and make very fine comparisons. It's interesting, but makes exacting demands of the camera!

And for what it's worth go on, just get the 50mm to start and take that, the 10D and G2 on holiday as well!

Martin

[brault]

On my E-10 I am using the Canon 24-85, 28-135 IS and 100-300 f5.6 Non-L. All of the pictures in my album have been taken with these non-L lenses. I am very pleased with the detail. I do sharpen in PS using Fred Miranda's action and USM.

Here are a couple samples. More at:

http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/pictures?userid=%7B232C13F7-84AF-4195-9B69-D8D8FE960C58%7D&AlbumId=%7B8C8893C4-1129-4712-A4AA-5116946AFF65%7D&GroupId=%7B5EA79100-03F6-4EAA-A453-25C96224CDBF%7D

Frank B

http://www.fototime.com/%7B8AB493F9-C2D2-4C08-980A-02BF6FE9C859%7D/picture.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/%7B1F8CAD17-A221-4B5C-8FE4-CDEEDAB6C197%7D/picture.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/%7BC2CF8AA9-0697-40ED-B6C0-BF95E1EE7AA8%7D/picture.JPG

[AndyDe]

martcol wrote:

And for what it's worth go on, just get the 50mm to start and take that, the 10D and G2 on holiday as well!

Martin

I've decided the 10D is going to have a rest when I go to Samos, would be forever worried about it vanishing while I'm dossing in the sun. I'll just take the G2 & the wideangle converter.

[diyjoe]

The answer to your original question is yes, you should buy one.

Having upgraded from a 35mm EOS 30, I had an initial concern that the images taken using my existing lenses (particuarly my Canon EF 100-300 4.5-5.6) were not as sharp as they had been on my EOS 30 (a concern helped in part by some of the stories I'd read).

I have done all the AF tests etc, which the camera passed with flying colours, so I've now come to the conclusion that the incredible quality and detail the 10D captures simply means that I am now able to scrutonise the quality of my lenses in a way that 35mm prints never allowed me!

Hope that helps.

Joe

http://www.diyjoe.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/photoprojects/index.html

[jjustus]

Just wanted to add two things:

1) Thanks to those that offered a civilized discussion for this thread, avoiding personal and mean spirited comments. I felt like this was a great example of effective use of a message board.

2) Joe - I really enjoyed your website. You are a talented web designer that really told a story about your subjects. I don't feel qualified to discuss your photography skills, but your design skills are great. Thanks for sharing.

Don't post much - I'm a lurker - but felt compelled to today.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Stoneh]

Indeed it was, and it has helped me decide to get one :) well order one anyay!!

[cardigan1979]

Well Guys/lasses.

I've just got my 10D and I've hid it in the wardrobe. How shall I tell my girlfriend I've spent 1250 english pounds.

I'm excited but nervous I canne even use it yet as I'm waiting for a small lens to come (Sigma 24-70 2.8) for those who are interested.

When I've chance to operate this fine tool I shall heed all the advice that comes on this forum. I must say that this forum has so much info on producing pix.


Thanks all you guys who place there knowledge on the forum.

[AndyDe]

cardigan1979 wrote:
Well Guys/lasses.

I've just got my 10D and I've hid it in the wardrobe. How shall I tell my girlfriend I've spent 1250 english pounds.


Tell her you part exchanged some stuff for it......works for me everytime ;-)

[rickm]

cardigan1979 wrote:I've just got my 10D and I've hid it in the wardrobe. How shall I tell my girlfriend I've spent 1250 english pounds. Let her find it and tell her she has spoiled your "surprise". You bought it to make a self portrait of yourself to give to her as a gift! You also intend to photograph her beauty in the English countryside. If she asks the price, just tell it doesn't matter as the photos it produces of her are priceless. :)

[petiot]

no!!!

you should wait for the E-1 to be able to compare

canon provides some good stuff for sure. however the new olympus gear seems to be a serious competitors to the 10 D and i am sure has been designed to be: splash proof (oh god that must be good not to have to worry too much for your 1500 $ gear), a dust cleaning system (humm i can remember how awfull my sensor was when i sold my 2 years old D30) etc

i really think you shouldnt rush for the 10 D. the E1 seems to be week for focus point for instance, but considering how week the side focus point of the 10 D are (from my point of view, the side focus point on the 10 D miss 1 shot out of 4) it shouldnt be a concern

and i think it is really time for the digital slr to mark themselves out of the classic camera. I like the canon policy which consist in developping 35 mm size sensor, but i guess it is only a commercial move that aims to keep all slr accessories compliant with any of their camera type. However i really olympus move to a new generation of D-slr and i think it is the way forward to exploit fully the advantages provided by digital
Dan

[Pekka]

petiot wrote:
no!!!

you should wait for the E-1 to be able to compare

canon provides some good stuff for sure. however the new olympus gear seems to be a serious competitors to the 10 D and i am sure has been designed to be: splash proof (oh god that must be good not to have to worry too much for your 1500 $ gear), a dust cleaning system (humm i can remember how awfull my sensor was when i sold my 2 years old D30) etc

i really think you shouldnt rush for the 10 D. the E1 seems to be week for focus point for instance, but considering how week the side focus point of the 10 D are (from my point of view, the side focus point on the 10 D miss 1 shot out of 4) it shouldnt be a concern

and i think it is really time for the digital slr to mark themselves out of the classic camera. I like the canon policy which consist in developping 35 mm size sensor, but i guess it is only a commercial move that aims to keep all slr accessories compliant with any of their camera type. However i really olympus move to a new generation of D-slr and i think it is the way forward to exploit fully the advantages provided by digital
Dan

I would say get 10D now - it's a better camera and EOS is better system.

Random thoughts about E-10:

- Image quality looks ok (but soft), at least dynamic range and noise is good (based what I see in http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=5432817 ) but the verdict on that should be done after we see more full size photos. It does not sound good to hear CCD is designed by Kodak.

- I really don't like TV ratio images.

- feature "Shading compensation (removes potential vignetting)" is very suspicious - how good was that new lens mount after all?

- feature ""Supersonic Wave Filter" cleans CCD at each camera start-up (dust is shaken from CCD)" sounds like trouble in form of chip alignment issues after few weeks of use.

- prices are ridiculous. I read ED 300 mm, F2.8 tele may be 8000 USD.

- These things are made for certain target group, but who does Olympus target?

Normal people will buy even _very_ expensive things if it has something _very_ special, but in this case the new body and lenses are not that much smaller to traditional SLR to attract gear freaks. The professional feel of 10D + white L lens is hard to beat in terms of gear attraction for same price. E-1 looks and smells just too plain common.

Olympus have taken the path to target this for professionals. Big Mistake. Problem with that is that professionals build SYSTEMs and the systems are very well handled by Canon and Nikon. Press people use in-house gear for which the houses have made enormous investments and they are not likely to even consider replacing them or keeping a different system at the same time. Professionals need also full frame DoF control which they have learned to master for years. They also need full weather sealing, not water droplet-shield.

- lens MTF's are not too impressive.

- dog ugly and confusing menus

On plus side E-1 may be excellent choice for nature photographers (weight/reach).

[Stoneh]

thanks petiot for highlighting a new alternative and for Pekka for his opinions. I looked at the E-1, the problem is that it is a new system alltogether and we all know what happens if it doesnt take off (betamax anyone?)

There is a risk of owning a turkey which no one will support if it doesnt take off and for me... it has to be at a right price. If its the same price as 10D or its higher, how many people would actually buy it? not many in my opinion.

what do you all think?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I think that Olympus' Idea is great and ahead of its time.

But ,. like the betamax reference,. it may be too far ahead of its time.

Some day the film will be pase~ and all the equipment associated with it will be dinosaurs,. including the EOS system as it exists today. Just as FD disapeared,.. so will all the EOS gear be on E-bay for half the price of the new stuff.

BUT GUESS WHAT. it isn't going to happen this year no matter what Olympus does. It may start to happen in 2010? But I wouldn't bank on it. Canon and Nikon have invested a lot of time and effort into systems that will last. My guess,. in 2010 EOS will still be around but Canon will have introduced a new sytem that may or may not be backward compatible,.

... and the Olympus E-1?

Hopefully Olympus' systems will be usable and something they can build from.

But the first generation will be beta/experimantal. It allready suffers from growing pains.. and it hasn't been introduced yet. As Pekka points out,. one of the key features that starting from the ground up as opposed to incorporating legacy film based lenses,. is size reduction. And yet the prototypes that we have seen don't seem to display any size reduction at all. Its as if Olympus has missed the entire pint that They are trying to make?

For now,. don't bank on vaporware.

[petiot]

Hi pekka!

Personnaly i really think that it is a bit early to rule out the olympus this way, since there are very few info on it.

about the kodak sensor, i agree, that might not be the best guaranty for quality, but saying that the cleaning system will mess up with the chip alignement is a bit like saying that olympus engineers dont know what they do.

about, the vignetting system i am not sure, but i think it is related to the light ray "straightener" part of the lens which aim to make sure the light will hit the sensor at right angle. cant be that bad.

about the "professionel" thing, i have my opinion on this. You talk abou tL lens and professional body camera from canon. Who can afford a 1D or 1Ds with a set of L lens. Professionals, yes. but i doubt that Stoneh will to spend 5 000 $ in photo gear.

personnally i like what olympus are trying to do, and the litle details that non pro like me would be happy to see on their canon camera: a simple plastic cover to guarantee that you will not be scratch, a splas proof protection (come on how much would that cost to canon, it is just they dont want to mix the feature of the preofessional body with the lowest model), a cleaning sensor mechanism, and ... and the access to wide angle! without having to spend a lot of money or limitating yourself to zoom range such as 15 35 or 17 40.

well i dont say the olympus is good, or better than the 10 D, but i just think that if i was abou tto spend 1500 $ in a camera, i would happily wait 4 months to have the choice between two models.

Bye

Dan

[Jorge]

I think it will take breakthrough technology or breakthrough prices for anyone to match the overall competitive value of Canon D-SLR products. The E-1 promises neither – so waiting specifically for the E-1 will be anything but a sure bet. But waiting is always an option. I think that it’s much more likely that Canon – and not other brands – will introduce something better than 10D in the not so distant future.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Its not about ruling out the E-1,. its about the waiting. There is no guarantee that the wait will only be 4 months.

On top of that,.. what is the reason to go to a DSLR as opposed to a highend Digital?

Its the lenses.

Canon has over 50 lenses for the EOS,. with another 100 or so from the combined 3 rd party efforts Sigma, Tamron, Tokina etc. Nikon nearly the same story.

And the E-1????

There is no comparison. Look at Olympuses existing film lens line up! This is where the E-1 early adopters will regret the decision to be an early adopter.

Assuming that the E-1 does take off (and I do think Olympus is going in the right direction..)

..how long will it be for the E-1 system to mature into an affordable usefull alternative to Eos or Nikon???

Thats the Question,. and the answer is a loooooong time. A lot longer than 4 months.

Buy the E-1 and you WILL be kicking yourself when you realize you want another lens.