Dissapointed with my new 20D :(

[sixto07]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and i just posted to get some help and advice. As the title says i'm quite dissapointed with the purchase of my 20D. I have took my first set of photos qhich came out good. Everything was going quite well unto i started to notice my photos are slightly blurred. Let me also mention i use a 15mm/2.8 and a 70-200L lens. I am so dissapointed spending +$1000 on the body and i cannot get clear, sharp images. Some of my images do come out clear but most of the time they do not.

I have used a tripod w/ timer as well. I have heard 20D has focus problems? I don't know what to do. I am VERY dissapointed.:confused:

Fisheye images:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/IMG_01461.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/IMG_01451.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/IMG_01701.jpg

[Maureen Souza]

Do a thorough check of your settings. Sometimes it is something as simple as getting enough light on your subject. Increase your ISO, open up the lens, slow down your shutter speed. It takes a little getting used to....it took me about 6 months of hit and miss but now I hit more than I miss. Keep experimenting and you'll get it figured out.

[gillyworld]

As you are shooting Jpegs I would look at the sharpening parameters that you are using in the camera menu. Alternatively try doing some post processing and apply sharpening to them in your editing program. I downloaded your pictures and they sharpen up quite a bit. Pictures from the 20D are "soft" and do need some post processing, this is in the design and reduces noise.

I also see that your shutter speeds are quite long, how good is your tripod? What do pictures taken at higher speeds look like?

Alan

[Sam]

Welcome to the forums. You'll be able to learn tons here just by reading a lot of the questions others have asked. Your frustration is a pretty common one with people new to photography. I'm not sure of your skill level, but in the hands of the right person a properly working 20d is a great tool.

That last picture has an exposure time of one second. That's a long time to hold your hand still. Try shutter speeds longer than your focal length. That should help eliminate average camera shake.

Ask tons of questions here. There are a lot of informative people here on the forums.

[sixto07]

As you are shooting Jpegs I would look at the sharpening parameters that you are using in the camera menu. Alternatively try doing some post processing and apply sharpening to them in your editing program. I downloaded your pictures and they sharpen up quite a bit. Pictures from the 20D are "soft" and do need some post processing, this is in the design and reduces noise.

I also see that your shutter speeds are quite long, how good is your tripod? What do pictures taken at higher speeds look like?

Alan

What sharpening parameters are there on the camera? I don;t think i have noticed this.

I'll be going back tomorrow to see what i can do. The first two were taken at ISO 100:confused: and i will try varying apertures.

The tripod is no fancy titanium or CF built piece but it's pretty sturdy.

[sixto07]

Thanks all for the replies so far!

[davidfig]

Since there are no 100% crops, I would have to say from what I see it looks pretty sharp.

[foxbat]

Can you post a link to one of the full unresized images? (a link will be fine, don't embed it in the forum as it will be too big)

[snappa]

Know the feeling well sixto07. When I first got mine I struggled, and still do at times, although I had been using film SLRs for years. There is just too much on the camera.
However I am getting to grips with it now.
There are just too many good shots taken with this camera for it not to be good.
It took me a while to understand that even though I had spent a small fortune, IMO, on this camera and lenses I would still have to bugger about on a computer afterwards.
Good Luck !

[I Simonius]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and i just posted to get some help and advice. As the title says i'm quite dissapointed with the purchase of my 20D. I have took my first set of photos qhich came out good. Everything was going quite well unto i started to notice my photos are slightly blurred. Let me also mention i use a 15mm/2.8 and a 70-200L lens. I am so dissapointed spending +$1000 on the body and i cannot get clear, sharp images. Some of my images do come out clear but most of the time they do not.

I have used a tripod w/ timer as well. I have heard 20D has focus problems? I don't know what to do. I am VERY dissapointed.:confused:

Fisheye images:


I felt exactly the same when I got my 20D
It has been the reaction of thousands of 20D new owners

Here's the reason:the 20D uses a filter over the sensor (called a low pass filter)to remove and minimise certain artifacts like moire and CA, this results in a slightly unSHARP picture. Notice I say unsharp NOT low resolution.

The solution: The resolution IS there, it just needs sharpening to compensate for the low pass filter. So your dissapointment is purely and simply a question of sharpening. Then I guarantee you will be delighted with your results

To sharpen the pics:
- if you arte shooting jpeg, you can set more sharpoening in the 'parameters' section of the menu.
-If you shoot RAW ( which you will eventually cos you can get even more out of your pics that way) you will need to do the sharpening in a computer ( post processing) This method has the most control and really is the best way to do it.

When you bought your 20D you also got a program called Adobe Photoshop Elements. This is the program to use for the best sharpening For instructions on how to do it well best to post the question in post processing section

SO don't worry and put your dissapointmnment aside your woes are easily resolved!:D :D

[grego]

Welcome to the forum.

I would consider reading through this before you write off your camera.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42034

[jjonsalt]

You don't say which 70-200L lens you have. If it is the f/4 (a fine lens, BTW) then the 20D's most accurate AF mode is not being used by the camera. A lens of f/2.8 or faster is required for the 20D's best AF mode to come into play. Also, I have changed my focusing screen and focus more often manually than with AF.

[SkipD]

The tripod is no fancy titanium or CF built piece but it's pretty sturdy.A good test for whether or not the tripod is sturdy enough is to look through the lens and tap the camera or the end of the lens (if you're using a long lens) and watch for movement. If the image doesn't stop moving virtually instantly after the tap, the tripod isn't strong enough, in my opinion.

Which 70-200L do you have? If it's the f/4 version, you really should invest in a tripod mount ring for it. Using that as the mounting point is far superior to mounting the camera to the tripod and hanging the lens off the camera. The rig would be far better balanced and thus be better stabilized by the tripod using the tripod mount ring.

Another thing you need to read up on is the white balance selection. Your third posted shot is quite yellow. Had you set the white balance to "incandescent", the colors would look a lot more natural. Had you shot in RAW mode, you could change the white balance after taking the picture as easily as selecting it in the camera before the shot.

[Hellashot]

I get clear sharp images out of my lowly Drebel so you should be able to get much better pictures out of your 20D. It took me 6 months to learn my camera. Are you coming from any experience with an SLR?

[mrclark321]

Not sure if you are using a flash but you should be able to crank up your ISO.
The lighting seems low, ISO 100 will result in a slow sutter speed and camera shake will be more noticable. The 20D and the 70-200 are an excellent combo and should produce excellent results as long settings are correct.

Good luck
Dan

[Laffctx]

ISO of 100 is pretty soft........about 99% of the time I use either ISO 200 or 400 depending on what I am shooting. I like 200 but when in doubt about crispness I go right to 400........JMO. Even with a tripod i still use 200.

[grego]

Haven't seen one of these "my 20D has a problem" posts in a while. Such great infomation on this site. Wish people would read it.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42034

A lot of this infomation would cost $20+ in a book, but best of all, it's free!

ISO of 100 is pretty soft........about 99% of the time I use either ISO 200 or 400 depending on what I am shooting. I like 200 but when in doubt about crispness I go right to 400........JMO. Even with a tripod i still use 200.

I don't see how it would be soft. Might have more dynamic range, like in the 1D series cameras, but you still should get sharp photos.

Part of your softness could be coming out of how fast your shutter speed is and what your aperture is.

[Laffctx]

Someone said your shutter speed was 1 second. That is a long time to hand hold that puppy steady by hand...........try jacking up that shutter speed and see if that helps also.

Laffctx

[sixto07]

Maybe i should have played with it a bit more before i wrote off, but when i buy a expensive body and i don't get crystal clear pics, it's kinda dissapointing. But i understand now it's a matter of playing with it more and learning.

I have 3 lens: A 15mm/2.8 fisheye, the 70-200 is the 2.8L glass:D and a 28-80 one that came with my previous Canon film SLR.

I went out to shoot a couple more today. These were again at ISO100, higher shutter speeds and used the raised sharpness on one of the parameters. I also switched to the one middle focus point only. MUCH easier to work with like that. A few have been touched with Photoshop.

I also learned it's harder to achieve a sharp picture with the fisheye than with a normal distorted lens.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/Zoutside.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/Zoutside2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/Zoutside3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/Zgarage4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/Zoutside7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/Zoutside8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/jdmcrxdelsol/Zoutside11.jpg

Feel free to comment. Thanks for everybodys responses, you all were very helpful.

[Wazza]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the images. They're all very nice. :)

I see you've used a film camera, but also maybe a digital point and shoot at same point? Just remember, they're always over-sharpened and over-saturated for instant "popping" shots. The 20D is rather neutral, and takes a more natural shot, which can be easily photoshopped to your desired effect.

Many of the images here on the forum will have USM applied, as do mine, so if you've compared with other images shared, it could just be different post-processing.

Anyway, I think they're good. :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Looks like a tiny amount of practice is really paying off,. your pics look fabulous :)

I particularly love the composition and DOF of the gear shift image.. lovely.

Don't afraid to try a little USM in PS oe elements.. also try the "huge radius" settig in USM (radius 50 amount to the single digits) to get a "localized contrast" effect.

[**carrie**]

They look great. I will be purchasing the 20d this week

[adas]

They look great. 80% because of the car. :)

[bolantej]

i think the images look fine. a little underexposed, but that can be helped in post processing. don't lose hope yet. there's a learning curve.

[SuzyView]

I agree with the above with a little (and I mean little) underexposed. You don't hav to sharpen every part of the capture to make a stronger statement. This you will have to learn in time. They all look fine. I especially like the last 3.

SuzyView

[sixto07]

Looks like a tiny amount of practice is really paying off,. your pics look fabulous :)

I particularly love the composition and DOF of the gear shift image.. lovely.

Don't afraid to try a little USM in PS oe elements.. also try the "huge radius" settig in USM (radius 50 amount to the single digits) to get a "localized contrast" effect.

Will do. Thanks !!

[zacker]

i think the shots look really good, just try sharpening them up a bit in Photoo shop. It should make all the difference in the world. Remember... a Point and shoot will take a sharper image because the shots are sharpened up ALLOT in the camera.. they (p&S's) are ment for people who just want to take pics, down load em and or print them out. DSLR's cater to a more (artistic) type shooter, one who wants total control over the finished picture. Someone who wants to take the time to evaluate the shot way before they hit the shutter release, one who wants to download the pics to thier computer and edit them, get them just right and then share/print. A Point and shoot is a good thing to own, but if you want that total control, go with the DSLR, and make every shot you take a special one.
-zacker-

[jr#8]

When I got my 20D I was also disapointed with the clarity of the images I was taking. So I talked with a neighbor who's a semi pro at the photographything. He helped me alot with my camera set up and afew quick lessons on setting up the camera. And he also advised me to get a better lens. The ones I have are Substandard. He let me try his 50mm and what a difference. Now I just need to save for better lens. I guess what I'm trying to say is It might be the lens and setting and the user. It was in my case.

[Laffctx]

that shutter speed did some good i see.

[TRM]

some nice shots!

what part of the country are you in with your Z?

PS: i run the ecza.org website and used to own Z's - love 'em.

[shiato storm]

nice pics...mine's having focusing issues...been using slide film for ages , good lenses too, and the 20d just misses target all the time. real pain. good that yours produces the goods :)

[I Simonius]

Will do. Thanks !!

just to look at it try 300 or so with radius of 3 or 4;)

really play with it:D

[Dave F2.8]

A couple of things I noticed on your settings that you may want to explore.

1. Your WB is set to auto. This is not really a good idea to use. Select the proper white balance and see the improvement before your eyes.
2. All you CF (custom Functions) are set to zero. Do some exploring here and you will find Whys and why nots of these functions.
3. Your Parameters Settings are all set to standard. I think someone here mention this already.
4. Your Color Space is set to sRGB, Try the Adobe RGB setting
5. Your detail information shows username "unknown"! to add your name here you must connect the camera to your computer via the Digital cable.

For the most part it looks like you pulled it out of the box and started shooting right away. I have had mine for almost a year and I find myself still learning little secrets.
;)
Good luck.

[PhotosGuy]

I also see that your shutter speeds are quite long, how good is your tripod? Try using the self-timer to reduce cam shake. 1. Your WB is set to auto. This is not really a good idea to use. Select the proper white balance and see the improvement before your eyes. Sometimes you want to use an improper WB to keep the warm colors of late light, but I'd never use Auto. Here's why: Gray card: Why your meter may be lying to you! (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54281) I started out to check one thing & learned about another.

[Dave F2.8]

I have heard 20D has focus problems?
Never heard this as a camera issue but a user issue 99% of the time.;)

[4x4rock]

I use Auto WB and most of the pics came out pretty good.

[Dave F2.8]

I use Auto WB and most of the pics came out pretty good.

Look at the link PhotosGuy posted.
Go and test this function out and see your photos improve.

[HJMinard]

Look at the link PhotosGuy posted.
Go and test this function out and see your photos improve.

I use Warmcards (which include white & Kodak gray cards) and RAW - leaving my camera on Auto WB. Surprisingly, my camera consistently chooses a WB quite near the result I get with Rawshooter and the reference cards. For consistency and accuracy purposes I'll continue to use the cards, but I just wanted to point out how surprised I've been with my 20D's accuracy.

[sixto07]

some nice shots!

what part of the country are you in with your Z?

PS: i run the ecza.org website and used to own Z's - love 'em.

I'm in Florida :) You are no more Z enthusiast?

[sixto07]

A couple of things I noticed on your settings that you may want to explore.

1. Your WB is set to auto. This is not really a good idea to use. Select the proper white balance and see the improvement before your eyes.
2. All you CF (custom Functions) are set to zero. Do some exploring here and you will find Whys and why nots of these functions.
3. Your Parameters Settings are all set to standard. I think someone here mention this already.
4. Your Color Space is set to sRGB, Try the Adobe RGB setting
5. Your detail information shows username "unknown"! to add your name here you must connect the camera to your computer via the Digital cable.

For the most part it looks like you pulled it out of the box and started shooting right away. I have had mine for almost a year and I find myself still learning little secrets.
;)
Good luck.

Will do thanks alot!:)

[rufis6]

I empathize with you; I experienced the same problem with my 20D. And it is true that some of the problem can be eliminate with post processing but that is not what I bargained fowhen I bought the camera. I didn't anticiipate a "soft focus" problem. I finallly gave up and bought a film camara, a Leica R9, but that also became a drag with all the scanning required. Now I have a Canon 5D and am quite happy.

[grego]

I empathize with you; I experienced the same problem with my 20D. And it is true that some of the problem can be eliminate with post processing but that is not what I bargained fowhen I bought the camera. I didn't anticiipate a "soft focus" problem. I finallly gave up and bought a film camara, a Leica R9, but that also became a drag with all the scanning required. Now I have a Canon 5D and am quite happy.

Soft images are a trait of Canon image's less intensive filter, which does help in keeping noise but retaining detail. A lot of where your parameters were set will determine how sharp your images are out of the camera.

[alsphoto]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I'm finding this helpful already. I started withe the 300d first one stopped working right replaced it and have had no problems since. About 2 weeks ago purchased the 20D love It

[djtowle]

Hi, I only scanned through all the responses here so apologies if I repeat anything.

I too was initially dissappointed with the sharpness of photos using DLSR cameras. Then I discovered 2 things:

1. Sharpening. (I have had better luck with predefined plugins for photoshop, rather then doing it a on manual)

2. Try printing the pictures. For some reason, for me anyhow, I am far too critical viewing them on screen.

A couple of comments on your 1st shot posted. Doing the math (15mm @ f14) seemed to have plenty of DOF, leaving camera shake or (lack of)sharpening as the main culprits.

1. I think it was shot at 1/10th of a sec. I try to stay away from speeds in this range on a tripod. IMHO below 1/60 or 1/30 and like 1/2 to 1 sec tends to be a danger zone (depending on focal length of lens, wind, weight/quality of tripod, etc, etc, etc. The reason (s), there is always a little vibration when the camera goes off, and that range of ss seems to show it, with a faster shutter - the little vibration doesn't matter, with a slower one the % of exposure created while the vibration is there is minimal. Hope that makes sense.

2. Using a self-timer or cable release. If you were using auto focus and the focus was set to the shutter button, the camera may be refocusing in a bad place or bad way when the timer goes off. Try manual focus, or reset the autofocus to one of the rear buttons using a custom function. Sorry I don't remember which one it is for the 20D off the top of my head.

And, you've got some great shots posted later in the thread.

[tdaugharty]

Try using the self-timer to reduce cam shake. Sometimes you want to use an improper WB to keep the warm colors of late light, but I'd never use Auto. Here's why: Gray card: Why your meter may be lying to you! (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54281) I started out to check one thing & learned about another.

Just shoot RAW and be done with it. Change the temp/exposure/sharpness in post. Too many variables to keep up with when new to the camera. Most mistakes can be fixed in RAW and to boot you can apply changes in post to your next shot until it becomes natural.

1- ISO - 200/400 for me ... 800+ to noisy, at ISO 100 colors tend to bleed unless outdoors with a tripod or enough light to get the Shutter speed up. Try TV mode with 100+ when at ISO 100.
2- Use Parameter 1 and if you have plenty of 1 or 2GB CF cards, shoot RAW+JPEG/L
3- Buy the expodisc. Gray cards are great but don't carry well in a compact bag that's already full of canon goodies.
4- Put your elbows tight into your sides. Make it a habit. Fixes a lot of issues with crooked shots along with motion blur.
5- Release the shutter at the end of a normal breathing pattern
6- Use a tripod or monopod as much as possible. In custom functions look at MLU (Mirror Lock Up) to get tack sharp ISO 100 shots of flowers and macro stuff
7- Get a Tripod subject brace (The flexible cable with clamp) to hold a flower so the wind does not move your perfect shot.
8- Visit this site .. It rules! Click Me (http://visibilityworksinc.com/dslr/)

Now as for the Color Working Space ... Unless you make all the required changes in POST processing software and are prepared to fight the ICC profile sync game may I suggest you stay with SRGB. Adobe RGB is great because you record the entire spectrum BUT given a JPEG image is saved @ 8-bit and 16-bit TIFF's are disk monsters it's really something you should reserve until sending images to a print press that can do something with it. @ Home or local print shops are nearly 100% JPEG and default to SRGB for color space anyway.

[I Simonius]

3- Buy the expodisc. Gray cards are great but don't carry well in a compact bag that's already full of canon goodies.

Does the expodisk work with DSLRs?

Ihad a simiar thing ( opaque plastic that covers thhe lens while you take a reading) but it doesne work on my 20D , readings are all over the place _ I thought it was something to do with the diffewrent)modern) metering system
maybe I should try ti with average or stop mode
I haven't really explored it fully but I kinda gave up quickly, just assuming it was incompatable, but I used to find it very reliabe and used it all the time

I'd Be interested in your thoughts