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DDL
15th of July 2013 (Mon), 23:33
Thank you. I'm guessing that's what the "Critique Corner" is also for.

Back more specifically to the Cheetah Light setup you used: Were you testing out this particular combination of gear? or was it absolutely necessary to shoot with two CL-360 lights inside the modifier (in the context of your exposure settings of ISO 100, 1/8000 shutter, F1.4.)?

Thx

The post at top of page (#1786 ) says two 360's at 1/2 power.

Ginga
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 00:21
Has anyone tried to shorten the power cable? Or is this one of those cables that are tricky to shorten?

It is just too darn long for my liking.

Ulysses01
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 01:36
The post at top of page (#1786 ) says two 360's at 1/2 power.

Yep, I got that part, as I mentioned. What I'm wondering is was he simply testing the rig as set up, or did he feel the shot demanded two of the 360s so that he could have the headroom, as far as power and control. :)

Whortleberry
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 02:03
Has anyone tried to shorten the power cable? Or is this one of those cables that are tricky to shorten?

It is just too darn long for my liking.Yes I have. Yes, it's easy. Yes, I posted details here back in June. See my post here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=15998432&postcount=1293).

656327
I also amended the proprietary plugs & sockets to add tactile / visual alignment marking to make selection / assembly of various cable configurations easier.

Whortleberry
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 02:07
Further to the immediate preceding, here's the colour coding I applied to the ends of the plugs to differentiate immediately between the very similar Godox-fit and Canon-fit power plugs.656329
And here's the profile of the pips I used.
656331

Ginga
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 02:23
Thanks again Phil. :) You are awesome!

Whortleberry
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 02:47
You're very welcome. Pan-European cooperation and all that!

You could, alternatively, wait till CheetahStand (link) (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=679870388693888&set=pb.118498398164426.-2207520000.1373960513.&type=3&theater) unpack their 26 July container. It's only 10 days now. In there, I understand, are some 1-to-2 cables (as per my little pic 2 posts back) which make more than adequate extensions with rather less superfluous length (2 metres instead of 5 metres).

Then comes the slightly harder bit. Beg, plead, cajole, try and get Edward to supply one (and pay USPS annual wages bill to transport - stupid carriage charges they impose). I haven't (yet) seen these available elsewhere though we can always hope that Europe will catch up eventually. If any of us live long enough for that to happen. :rolleyes:

dmward
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 07:48
Thank you. I'm guessing that's what the "Critique Corner" is also for.

Back more specifically to the Cheetah Light setup you used: Were you testing out this particular combination of gear? or was it absolutely necessary to shoot with two CL-360 lights inside the modifier (in the context of your exposure settings of ISO 100, 1/8000 shutter, F1.4.)?

Thx

The shot could have been made with a single CL-360.

Yes, the reason for using two CL-360s was to see how the combination worked in the large soft box with Elv's bracket. Most of the shooting was accomplished at 1/2 or lower power which means that a single CL-360 in the same modifier would have worked. Also, given the distance the modifier was from the subject a CL-180 would probably have been useable as well.

The main testing was done in a static setup with the subject sitting on a table so I could compare all three options for a subject backlit by noon time sun. Even in that situation, two CL-360s was over kill.

Ulysses01
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 10:36
Thanks, David. Mucho appreciation for the additional insight. I'm always interested not only in the technical aspects, but also the thinking behind what went into a given shoot, even a test shoot like this one.


The shot could have been made with a single CL-360.

Yes, the reason for using two CL-360s was to see how the combination worked in the large soft box with Elv's bracket. Most of the shooting was accomplished at 1/2 or lower power which means that a single CL-360 in the same modifier would have worked. Also, given the distance the modifier was from the subject a CL-180 would probably have been useable as well.

The main testing was done in a static setup with the subject sitting on a table so I could compare all three options for a subject backlit by noon time sun. Even in that situation, two CL-360s was over kill.

silvrbullet
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 11:31
Am I crazy to want to replace my E640 & VML with a CL-360? I never use my E640 at full power, and I love the portability of my CL-180...

Osiriz
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 11:46
Am I crazy to want to replace my E640 & VML with a CL-360? I never use my E640 at full power, and I love the portability of my CL-180...
Not too crazy.

I was originally set on buying a complete E640-kit, but after a few months of hard thinking, I realized that it was far more power (and bulk) than I would ever need.

I.M.O the CL-360 is probably the sweetspot in power + portability.

Whortleberry
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 11:56
Supplies of the 360 are about to arrive in both Europe and USA - the CheetahLight incarnation is on pre-order wef 15 July at http://www.cheetahstand.com/ for delivery wef 28th July or slightly before. The Lencarta Atom is also due on 26 July, details at http://www.lencarta.com/lighting-store/atom-barebulb-portable-flash

Our boat will come in - the wait is almost over :grin:

dmward
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 13:34
Originally Posted by silvrbullet
Am I crazy to want to replace my E640 & VML with a CL-360? I never use my E640 at full power, and I love the portability of my CL-180...

Not too crazy.

I was originally set on buying a complete E640-kit, but after a few months of hard thinking, I realized that it was far more power (and bulk) than I would ever need.

I.M.O the CL-360 is probably the sweetspot in power + portability.

If I didn't have 4 Einsteins, I probably wouldn't buy any unless I was doing studio fashion or similar. I find them great in that environment, even though the 360 has enough power the recycle time is slower. With models its nice to be able to keep hitting the shutter to make sure of the expression before the pose goes.

For most applications the 360 is going to be perfect. Even for kids, since the power can be brought down by having the light close, and using the 2 to 1 cable to help recycle time.

That's what I'm eager to try.

ZoranC
16th of July 2013 (Tue), 22:42
Am I crazy to want to replace my E640 & VML with a CL-360? I never use my E640 at full power, and I love the portability of my CL-180...
As much as I like my CL360 if I already had E640 I wouldn't be replacing it with CL360, I would be adding CL360 to it.

Ulysses01
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 03:28
As much as I like my CL360 if I already had E640 I wouldn't be replacing it with CL360, I would be adding CL360 to it.

It really depends upon the application. For example, I have the Einsteins and a couple of modifiers, along with the PocketWizard MC2 for it. Since the purchase, however, I've found it often really isn't the light for ME, at least not most of the time. Because of its bulk (relative to speedlights), I never feel like bringing it to wedding jobs, and I'm not really happy bringing it on portrait jobs either. As others have mentioned, if I had a fixed studio location I'd probably keep it. But all our work is done on location, so I find myself strongly disliking packing and lugging the Einsteins and associated gear around in favor of smaller Speedlights.

So the CL-360 setup gives me more of the lightweight/power crossover that I'm looking for, both for wedding work, as well as for portraits. At least that's my thinking for now. Still haven't pulled the trigger yet. :)

Chad D
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 05:28
OHHHH BUT YOU WILL :) hahahahah :)

Aloha U :)

It really depends upon the application. For example, I have the Einsteins and a couple of modifiers, along with the PocketWizard MC2 for it. Since the purchase, however, I've found it often really isn't the light for ME, at least not most of the time. Because of its bulk (relative to speedlights), I never feel like bringing it to wedding jobs, and I'm not really happy bringing it on portrait jobs either. As others have mentioned, if I had a fixed studio location I'd probably keep it. But all our work is done on location, so I find myself strongly disliking packing and lugging the Einsteins and associated gear around in favor of smaller Speedlights.

So the CL-360 setup gives me more of the lightweight/power crossover that I'm looking for, both for wedding work, as well as for portraits. At least that's my thinking for now. Still haven't pulled the trigger yet. :)

symbolphoto
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 07:27
It really depends upon the application. For example, I have the Einsteins and a couple of modifiers, along with the PocketWizard MC2 for it. Since the purchase, however, I've found it often really isn't the light for ME, at least not most of the time. Because of its bulk (relative to speedlights), I never feel like bringing it to wedding jobs, and I'm not really happy bringing it on portrait jobs either. As others have mentioned, if I had a fixed studio location I'd probably keep it. But all our work is done on location, so I find myself strongly disliking packing and lugging the Einsteins and associated gear around in favor of smaller Speedlights.

So the CL-360 setup gives me more of the lightweight/power crossover that I'm looking for, both for wedding work, as well as for portraits. At least that's my thinking for now. Still haven't pulled the trigger yet. :)

I understand your issue U. Do you plan to replace your speedlites or use them in addition to? I only ask because if you plan to use them as a replacement, not an addition, keep in mind the IR AF assist beam is an on or off thing. Not a pulse type like you are used to with your speedlites.

Though the pros easily outweigh that one con for most, but that one con is a killer for me at least. Because i want these to replace my 600's entirely.

dmward
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 07:54
U, I do all my work on location. Dragging stuff around is just part of the job. :-)
My Einstein kit is four lights in a wheeled case, with cables, triggers, and reflectors.The VMLs are in an old camera bag. Stands, PLMs, other modifiers are in grip bags. My cheetah lights are also in a wheeled case with cables, triggers and batteries. Umbrella frame modifiers are in a grip bag.

I think you are getting the picture. All this is in my car, along with a grip bag full of odds and ends. And finally a wheeled case with lenses, speedlites etc. And a camera case with bodies, and lenses I selected for the job. Along with a couple of speedlites if they are going to be used.

The reason for the long description is to point out that each kit has a purpose for me, so I have them all available. What I've been doing lately is selecting the Cheetah Lights for setups where I used to use the Einsteins. The only time I've pulled out the Einsteins is for fashion shoots where I want to use my big PLMs as modifiers. For family and individual portraits I've been using the Cheetah Lights and umbrella frame modifiers.

That was one reason for the test in the park, wanting to confirm just how far I could push the Cheetah Lights. H mode is, for me, a really handy capability. Makes it so much easier to mix strobe and sunlight than ND filters. I like to use wide apertures so it helps there as well.

In your case, using Einsteins with ControlTL is semi-crippling the Einsteins.

On the other hand, 3 or 4 Cheetah Lights are a perfect portrait kit. Two along with a couple of speedlites are a great wedding kit.

I haven't had a chance to use them for any architectural work but I think they will be useful. Especially when Edward gets the mushroom perfected for color temp.

dmward
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 09:30
Not too crazy.

I was originally set on buying a complete E640-kit, but after a few months of hard thinking, I realized that it was far more power (and bulk) than I would ever need.

I.M.O the CL-360 is probably the sweetspot in power + portability.

Here is a quick test shot I did with Manny to illustrate how the Cheetah Light, YN-622c trigger and Canon 600EX-RT speedlite can be combined to provide ETTL fill for the CL-360.

The 360 had the standard 5" reflector on and was about 5 feet from Manny. I put him in the shade and set the camera to 1/4000, ISO 100, F2.8 to seriously under expose the ambient. Sun was behind trees camera left and behind Manny's "shoulder".

360 was in H mode, 1/8 power. i.e. its lowest power setting in H mode. 600EX was in ETTL and I had to dial in -3 FEC on the flash and -1FEC on the camera to keep the 600EX from over powering the 360. Lightroom setting are all 0. I did apply my camera profile. The Adobe Canon 5DIII gave just a bit lower exposure setting. In this image the white square is 91% which is within the X-Rite range for proper exposure.

Naturally, if this were a portrait session I'd have the CL-360 in a soft box. And, with the ambient exposure closer to 0 the 600EX fill would probably not have to have so much FEC dialed in.

I'm getting the feeling that someone is going to ask me to put a CL-180 on the YN-622 to see if the AF assist works. :-) Probably a useful test.

dmward
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 10:00
OK, just to satisfy a certain Boston wedding photographer's curiosity, I did a quick test with a CL-180 on a YN-622 on camera and a CL-360 with a YN-622 plugged in to trigger it on a stand.

They both had 5" reflectors on the 360 was at 1/64 power, the 180 at 1/32. So both were putting out the same light the stand was about 5 feet from Manny and the camera was about 7 feet. So not quite 1:3 ratio. Camera was set to ISO 200, 1/200 and F5.6. The YN-622 on camera provided AF assist light with half shutter press as expected.

I also tried the setup in H mode. That didn't work. My guess is that the single pin on the top of the YN-622 on camera caused a problem. When I plugged a cable into the PC connection and into the CL-180 on the camera it would fire in H mode but the off camera CL-360 with a YN-622 plugged in didn't fire. I have a suspicion that that has to do with the YN-622 configuration. I'll have to ask Clive.

So, if one were to want to put a CL-180 on camera, and it wasn't appreciably different than a 600EX-RT on the YN-622, this is a good way to do it.

Here is the result;

Landcruiser
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 10:29
Can you use 622's on the camera and 360, with the Cheetah transmitter on top of the 622 to control powr and groups via camera?

dmward
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 10:55
No.
It's a great idea but the Cheetah CL-Tx does not have all the pins required for ETTL control
The Cells Iic has the pins but it has manual controls for groups and channels so there is not communication between it and the camera.

And, using the YN-622 with the Cheetah Lights as a trigger is via a cable connection so while one can turn groups on and off, there is no way to control power. That has to be accomplished via the CL-Tx.

Its about the same scenario as using a Cyber Commander to control Einsteins, with a separate trigger on the camera.

To make what you want to do work, Cheetah would have to implement Canon ETTL signaling all the way to the light. That's a significant engineering task. Not impossible just requires engineering.

Godox has ETTL capable speedlites in its product line, that implies that they have done the work to implement ETTL. So, the remaining task is to adapt that firmware and hardware into the Cheetah Light hardware.

I'd like that. When I was beta testing the MC2 for Buff and PW I kept asking about HSS and ETTL. PW already had a lot of the capabilities in the ControlTL stuff. They said it was too much work.

Now the Einstein, a great monolight, is being eclipsed by the Cheetah Light and others with H mode. How much longer until that capability is imbedded into a studio sized 600WS +) monolight? And how far behind is ETTL?

I know, from my experience with design engineers building network switches, that they love a challenge.

As with anything else, waiting for the perfect tool means one never has tools to get the job done. :-)

Landcruiser
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 11:59
Thanks for the insight. I had high hopes, but that does not deter me one bit. Excited to see my box of awsomeness arive.

Ulysses01
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 18:02
OHHHH BUT YOU WILL :) hahahahah :)

Aloha U :)

Aloha, buddy! And here I thought I'd sneak in under the radar. Silly me. :)

You may be right. Let me put it this way: For now, at least, I have a couple of permanent tabs in my browser, one for CheetahStand.com and another for Elv's FlashHavoc.com site. :cool:

Ulysses01
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 19:08
I understand your issue U. Do you plan to replace your speedlites or use them in addition to? I only ask because if you plan to use them as a replacement, not an addition, keep in mind the IR AF assist beam is an on or off thing. Not a pulse type like you are used to with your speedlites.

Though the pros easily outweigh that one con for most, but that one con is a killer for me at least. Because i want these to replace my 600's entirely.

Bingo! That's what I *want* from these, but I'm not sure I can actually get precisely what I want without significantly changing the way I want to work.

Here's where I'm at today: I don't really like lugging lights and stands around for weddings and portrait work. I'll do it when the venue requires it and IF it isn't a logistical problem for me to do so. I've been using the Nikon SB-900/910 lights on Cheetah stands and the PW FlexTT5, MiniTT1, and AC3 units for OCF work. I've lately found a nice grove with this setup as I continue to broaden my personal tolerance level (LOL) and improve my setup speed.

The pros of this setup are that I have a Nikon system I understand; I have plenty of support with the PWs; lightweight, quick and easy to set up; importantly, I can maintain an on-camera flash for fill in these large east coast venues. BUT the cons of what I'm currently using is the frequent unreliability of the PW system with the Nikon flashes, I believe due to the design of these Speedlights locking mechanism leaving too much play in the PW hot shoe; the sometimes poor recycle times especially when two of us re on the floor using the same lights; the short life of the batteries especially when two of us are shooting at the same time.

I would like to replace both the lights and the PWs with two or three of the CL-360 lights. But the main challenges I see at this point are the difficulty in using them simultaneously with an on-camera flash, and the lack of a true and aligned AF assist lamp. These aren't absolute deal breakers for me, but I'm feeling a bit as if I'm trying to force this square peg with rounded gently corners into a truly round hole, if you know what I mean. Using this system for portrait work would be easy and not a problem at all, but I'm primarily weddings at this point and that's where I see the challenges for what I'm currently doing with lighting.

I do NOT plan on getting rid of my Speedlights, but I see myself using them much less often if I can make the Cheetah Lights and associated triggers work for me without hassle.

Ulysses01
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 19:18
The reason for the long description is to point out that each kit has a purpose for me, so I have them all available...

In your case, using Einsteins with ControlTL is semi-crippling the

I agree! I gradually found out over time that I was actually using the Einsteins less and less for what WE need to do most often. I'm undecided at this point if I will sell the Einstein gear (that's what the wife wants) or if I'll hang onto it for the rare occasion where it would come in handy.

All our work is location work, too. I'm accustomed to traveling *super* light, even for our wedding work. I'm reluctant to change that approach, sacrificing other things in our shoots for the sake of gear. OTOH, I'd love to have gear that works the way *I* want to work.

I like the Cheetah Lights a lot, so I'm taking my time considering them and the trigger options. I don't want to "Einstein" this one. :lol:

Thx for the input on how the gear is working for your location work, BTW.

dmward
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 19:19
U,
get in touch with Jim Coleman. He just started a threat where he goes into detail, with pictures about how he uses the Cheetah Lights for his wedding work. The implication is that most of the time he's working without a flash on camera.

Also, since almost all of this work is done where the shutter speed is well below sync speed, using a PC to hot shoe connection to the CL-Tx is an easy solution. I know you said you don't like stuff hanging off your camera but that may be a less painful compromise than lugging the monolights around. :-)

I'd forgotten you use Nikons, that makes all my comments relative to the YN-622 triggers suspect. I use Canon 5DIIIs.

Ulysses01
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 19:31
I'll look for him. Thx!

Yeah, you're getting the right idea about my *really* not wanting to tie myself up with cables and brackets, etc. I'm weird that way. In fact, lately I'm looking to lighten my load, even looking into mirrorless bodies, rather than make my gear heavier or more complicated.

Your comment about how we're always waiting for the perfect gear resonates with me. Story. Of. My. Life.

elv
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 20:35
How is Jim mounting the CL-TX to the camera?

The only other option I can suggest is to use a Phottix Strato II under you're on camera flash, to fire the Cheetah Lights, and keep the CL-TX in pocket to adjust power levels when needed.

This is a problem faced with a lot of systems at the moment, including the Canon 600EX-RT. You need to mount another transmitter somewhere to fire some manual lights as well (or use a pass through hotshoe).
.

elv
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 20:39
Here is how 2 CL-360s fit into a 90x90cm umbrella frame soft box. That's Elv's Phottix bracket holding them in place. And it makes tilting a breeze.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=656255&stc=1&d=1373921283



This looks great thanks David. I'm sure there would be many times this power would come in handy, especially using the HSS mode.
.

jcolman
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 21:48
How is Jim mounting the CL-TX to the camera?

The only other option I can suggest is to use a Phottix Strato II under you're on camera flash, to fire the Cheetah Lights, and keep the CL-TX in pocket to adjust power levels when needed.

This is a problem faced with a lot of systems at the moment, including the Canon 600EX-RT. You need to mount another transmitter somewhere to fire some manual lights as well (or use a pass through hotshoe).
.


When I use my 580EX on camera, I use pocketwizards to fire the Cheetah lights. One pocketwizard gets plugged into a modified base on the 580EX and is rubber banded to the flash. The other PW is attached to the Cheetah lights sync port.

ZoranC
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 22:00
It really depends upon the application.
Yes, that it does and maybe I should have prefaced my statement with "personally" :) but I still think somebody might want to consider it. It was versatility of "toolbox at disposal" that was more of my guidance. In other words, if tied up money is not an obstacle and E640 would still get enough use having both allows one to reach for whichever one will be best fit for the situation, never ending up having to say "I wish I didn't sell my E640".

dmward
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 22:05
This looks great thanks David. I'm sure there would be many times this power would come in handy, especially using the HSS mode.
.

Elv, I think anyone owning two 180s or 360s should get one of the brackets, just for that one time when they need just a bit more. Either because they have to move the light farther away or because then need a bit more shutter speed to deepen the background.

If I had the add-on cross member it would be interesting to see what 2 360s and 2 180s could accomplish. :-)

450 Ws in H mode is a lot of photons.

symbolphoto
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 22:38
When I use my 580EX on camera, I use pocketwizards to fire the Cheetah lights. One pocketwizard gets plugged into a modified base on the 580EX and is rubber banded to the flash. The other PW is attached to the Cheetah lights sync port.

And that is precisely why i can't go with this solution. That's fine if you want to mess around with wires, triggers and rubber bands. (Not knocking it, if it works for you, great.)

But i need a more seamless, integrated solution. I want to replace ALL my canon flashes and fire all 3 CL360's from the master on my camera hot shoe. Just like with the Canon RT system... but with better IR focus assist beam.

Something i can't live without while photographing dancing and such...

dmward
17th of July 2013 (Wed), 23:01
YN-622c.
One on the camera has AF assist. Plug one into each Cheetah Light. There are three groups available to control how they are fired.

Use the CL-Tx to change power on the lights individually by assigning each one to a different number on the dial of the CL-Tx.

You do have to attach the YN-622c to the Cheetah Light with a short able. PC connection with screw locking collar to mini-jack. Available from Lon at Flash Zebra.

Works like a charm and also supports H mode if you need or want to use it.

If you want to put a Cheetah Light on the YN-622c that will work up to X-Sync speed. That light is in group A.

The YN-622c AF assist beam is probably better than the one on the 600EX. At least I see it clearly in the view finder while I don't remember ever seeing the Canon beam unless its really dark.

Ulysses01
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 00:36
In other words, if tied up money is not an obstacle and E640 would still get enough use having both allows one to reach for whichever one will be best fit for the situation, never ending up having to say "I wish I didn't sell my E640".

Yeah, I think you're right. It's usually better to have the gear on hand than to not. That said, at least in my case, I really think the Einstein was simply not the light for ME in the long haul. I'll have to see how my decisions on lighting evolve. At least for now, I'm still keeping the Einsteins around. :)

BigIronCruiser
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 00:43
Though I've never wanted to do this, Nikon appears to be a little easier than Canon in terms of mixing speedlights with CL-xxx's. I posted something close to the following elsewhere in this thread, but to save time this is what works with a Nikon D4...

1. Place a PW MiniTT1 with a CLS-compatible speedlight (e.g. SB-910) in the camera's hotshoe
2. Set the SB-910 to Master Mode, and set its zone to anything, i.e. TTL, Manual, ---, etc
3. Place the remote CL-xxx in a hotshoe adapter, and connect the male end of the adapter cable to P2 on a FlexTT5
4. Select a Zone (A, B or C) for the remote FlexTT5
5. Set the selected Zone from Step 4 to Manual on the SB-910
6. Happy shooting (even up to max shutter speed as long as the CL-XXX is set to 1/1)
7. Focus assist on the SB-910 is active, though it's rarely needed when using a D4;)

An AC-3 zone controller or SU-4 can be used in place of the SB-910 if desired.

One of the downsides, of course, is that PW's are fairly pricey.

Ulysses01
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 02:14
When I use my 580EX on camera, I use pocketwizards to fire the Cheetah lights. One pocketwizard gets plugged into a modified base on the 580EX and is rubber banded to the flash. The other PW is attached to the Cheetah lights sync port.

Jim, thanks very much for weighing in on how you're making this work. David mentioned you had a thread with images illustrating how you put all of this together. I'll see if I can find that thread, as well. I'm a visual guy. :)



But i need a more seamless, integrated solution. I want to replace ALL my canon flashes and fire all 3 CL360's from the master on my camera hot shoe. Just like with the Canon RT system... but with better IR focus assist beam.

Something i can't live without while photographing dancing and such...

B, I think at least in these respects, you and I are on the same page. The desire for a decent AF assist light is one reason I've been trying to figure out how to get an on-camera flash to work seamlessly with the Cheetah Light system, with less futzing around.

symbolphoto
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 07:40
U, well that's the thing that non-wedding photographers have a hard time wrapping their head around... understandably. When i go to a wedding, i don't want to think about the gear. I don't need another item to have to worry about. I need to put the batteries in, turns it on, set it and forget it. (For the most part).

I don't mind changing power regularly (I shoot in manual mode on my flashes all the time). But i don't want to have to mess around with cables, extra triggers, extra batteries etc. I'm done with that.

.02

symbolphoto
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 07:44
YN-622c.
One on the camera has AF assist. Plug one into each Cheetah Light. There are three groups available to control how they are fired.

Use the CL-Tx to change power on the lights individually by assigning each one to a different number on the dial of the CL-Tx.

You do have to attach the YN-622c to the Cheetah Light with a short able. PC connection with screw locking collar to mini-jack. Available from Lon at Flash Zebra.

Works like a charm and also supports H mode if you need or want to use it.

If you want to put a Cheetah Light on the YN-622c that will work up to X-Sync speed. That light is in group A.

The YN-622c AF assist beam is probably better than the one on the 600EX. At least I see it clearly in the view finder while I don't remember ever seeing the Canon beam unless its really dark.

This is interesting... for sure. But still seems like a little more than i want to deal with. I'm going to give this some consideration though. Man, if that beam is just built into the CL360, then i'm in business!

Not knocking the CL180 or CL360, but man... if you are going to go through the trouble of putting any beam system in there, why not go with the standard IR pulse system? I say it's 95% there, i just want my 5% lol....

jcolman
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 08:14
Jim, thanks very much for weighing in on how you're making this work. David mentioned you had a thread with images illustrating how you put all of this together. I'll see if I can find that thread, as well. I'm a visual guy. :)







Here you go

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1315936

dmward
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 08:31
This is interesting... for sure. But still seems like a little more than i want to deal with. I'm going to give this some consideration though. Man, if that beam is just built into the CL360, then i'm in business!

Not knocking the CL180 or CL360, but man... if you are going to go through the trouble of putting any beam system in there, why not go with the standard IR pulse system? I say it's 95% there, i just want my 5% lol....

The 5% that's missing is the extra control pins and firmware that are used to sense the half shutter press needed to activate the AF light. Probably the thinking was that if someone wants to use the 180 as a manual flash on camera then having a switchable AF assist light was a benefit.

dmward
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 13:46
I made an interesting "discovery" yesterday afternoon.
A while back I found and ordered an S mount to Elinchrom mount adapter on eBay. I ordered one and when it arrived spent a couple frustrating hours trying to mount the Elinchrom ring onto the front of a Cheetah Speed Pro Bracket. That didn't work and I kind of forgot about the adapter.

Then yesterday I had a thought how would the Cheetah Light work with the adapter mounted on the Speed Pro Bracket. So I gave it a try. First I mounted the adapter, then mounted the light and slide it into the throat until the locking screw hit the upright. The result was less than satisfactory;

http://www.dmwfotos.com/4web/DMWA9329.jpg

Here's another angle that shows the position of the light on the bracket.

http://www.dmwfotos.com/4web/DMWA9330.jpg

Then I had a thought, how can I get the knob past the upright? The answer is to not mount the light on the bracket before wiggling the head through the upright. That worked like a charm. Then mounted the light on the bracket. Finally I fitted the S to E adapter. It snapped into place without a problem.

Here is the result;

http://www.dmwfotos.com/4web/DMWA9361.jpg

and a second view;

http://www.dmwfotos.com/4web/DMWA9362.jpg

The final result is the flash tube being well positioned in the modifier when its mounted on the E mount.

Also, just a reminder, the E mount on the adapter is a really cheap plastic item that may or may not be durable. At least its a solution until I find something better. :-)

When I get a chance I'm going to mount my Fotodiox EZ-Pro 30" octa. Its a nice deep box similar to the Elinchrom Deep Octa.

mmmfotografie
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 14:08
Nice thinking David. It look good and lets hope the mount will not get to hot and melt.

Nikkor316
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 18:26
Though I've never wanted to do this, Nikon appears to be a little easier than Canon in terms of mixing speedlights with CL-xxx's. I posted something close to the following elsewhere in this thread, but to save time this is what works with a Nikon D4...

1. Place a PW MiniTT1 with a CLS-compatible speedlight (e.g. SB-910) in the camera's hotshoe
2. Set the SB-910 to Master Mode, and set its zone to anything, i.e. TTL, Manual, ---, etc
3. Place the remote CL-xxx in a hotshoe adapter, and connect the male end of the adapter cable to P2 on a FlexTT5
4. Select a Zone (A, B or C) for the remote FlexTT5
5. Set the selected Zone from Step 4 to Manual on the SB-910
6. Happy shooting (even up to max shutter speed as long as the CL-XXX is set to 1/1)
7. Focus assist on the SB-910 is active, though it's rarely needed when using a D4;)

An AC-3 zone controller or SU-4 can be used in place of the SB-910 if desired.

One of the downsides, of course, is that PW's are fairly pricey.

Can the CL-xxx be used in the hotshoe of the FlexTT5 rather than a hotshoe adapter plus cable? Does this work for HSS?

dmward
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 18:53
Can the CL-xxx be used in the hotshoe of the FlexTT5 rather than a hotshoe adapter plus cable? Does this work for HSS?

No. The CL-xxx only has the center pin on its hot foot. I don't know if the FlexTT5 will fire it with just the center pin. It should fire via a cable from the P mini-jack. And, if I remember correctly that will work to deliver an FP-sync fire signal.

If you are talking about the Nikon version, I presume it works about like the Canon version.

Ulysses01
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 19:10
I don't mind changing power regularly (I shoot in manual mode on my flashes all the time). But i don't want to have to mess around with cables, extra triggers, extra batteries etc. I'm done with that.

Wow... where is the big "THANK YOU" button when you need one?? 8-)

srikeerthi
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 20:57
Thanks to all who have contributed here, it helped me make a decision to get this light. I got the Godox version (in Singapore) a couple of days back. I also have the YN622C triggers and wanted to try the H mode on the strobe.

I tried using the PC - 3.5mm cable to connect the YN622C to the AD-360 (and mounting flash on YN622) but was not able to fire correctly above sync speeds. I tried shutter speeds of 1/800 and above with the power on the flash set at all H mode levels.

Can someone who has used it guide me on how to use it?

Robsphoto
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 21:59
Though I've never wanted to do this, Nikon appears to be a little easier than Canon in terms of mixing speedlights with CL-xxx's. I posted something close to the following elsewhere in this thread, but to save time this is what works with a Nikon D4...

1. Place a PW MiniTT1 with a CLS-compatible speedlight (e.g. SB-910) in the camera's hotshoe
2. Set the SB-910 to Master Mode, and set its zone to anything, i.e. TTL, Manual, ---, etc
3. Place the remote CL-xxx in a hotshoe adapter, and connect the male end of the adapter cable to P2 on a FlexTT5
4. Select a Zone (A, B or C) for the remote FlexTT5
5. Set the selected Zone from Step 4 to Manual on the SB-910
6. Happy shooting (even up to max shutter speed as long as the CL-XXX is set to 1/1)
7. Focus assist on the SB-910 is active, though it's rarely needed when using a D4;)

An AC-3 zone controller or SU-4 can be used in place of the SB-910 if desired.

One of the downsides, of course, is that PW's are fairly pricey.


This works! tried at a wedding this weekend and to my surprise it simply worked. I was using the tt1 on camera with an sb900 as the master and ----- setting.

dmward
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 22:11
Thanks to all who have contributed here, it helped me make a decision to get this light. I got the Godox version (in Singapore) a couple of days back. I also have the YN622C triggers and wanted to try the H mode on the strobe.

I tried using the PC - 3.5mm cable to connect the YN622C to the AD-360 (and mounting flash on YN622) but was not able to fire correctly above sync speeds. I tried shutter speeds of 1/800 and above with the power on the flash set at all H mode levels.

Can someone who has used it guide me on how to use it?
The AD-360 can not be in the hot shoe of the YN-622. It has to be connected to the PC port on the side of the YN-622. Then it will fire in H mode, providing there is a YN-622 on the camera and it has activated HSS on the camera. I think that happens automatically when the shutter is set past the sync speed. If not try going into the external flash menu on the camera and setting HSS.

dmward
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 22:15
This works! tried at a wedding this weekend and to my surprise it simply worked. I was using the tt1 on camera with an sb900 as the master and ----- setting.

Have you tried it in H mode. At 1/1 and the higher shutter speeds its probably the HyperSync capability of the ControlTL system coming into play.

If you try H mode I think you will have to set the HSS switch over shutter speed in the firmware utility. At least for Canon, as I recall, there is a setting to switch from HSS to HyperSync.

Robsphoto
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 22:20
If I didn't have 4 Einsteins, I probably wouldn't buy any unless I was doing studio fashion or similar. I find them great in that environment, even though the 360 has enough power the recycle time is slower. With models its nice to be able to keep hitting the shutter to make sure of the expression before the pose goes.

For most applications the 360 is going to be perfect. Even for kids, since the power can be brought down by having the light close, and using the 2 to 1 cable to help recycle time.

That's what I'm eager to try.

LOL, I was just thinking of selling my profoto D1 kit that I purchased in April for another Cl-360 to complete my kit. Hum, decisions, decisions!! The CL 360 is so portable and has more power especially doing formals at weddings.

Nikkor316
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 22:23
No. The CL-xxx only has the center pin on its hot foot. I don't know if the FlexTT5 will fire it with just the center pin. It should fire via a cable from the P mini-jack. And, if I remember correctly that will work to deliver an FP-sync fire signal.

If you are talking about the Nikon version, I presume it works about like the Canon version.

It does fire correctly in HS of FlexTT5 but won't go above x-sync mode for HSS. Does it matter if connected using PC jack or 1/8" mono plug?

dmward
18th of July 2013 (Thu), 22:27
It does fire correctly in HS of FlexTT5 but won't go above x-sync mode for HSS. Does it matter if connected using PC jack or 1/8" mono plug?

I use the mini-jack on the CL-xxx and its connected to the PC jack on the YN-622 so I expect that it would work in the P port on a FlexTT5. But it may require adjusting some settings in the Flex firmware.

BigIronCruiser
19th of July 2013 (Fri), 00:01
I use the mini-jack on the CL-xxx and its connected to the PC jack on the YN-622 so I expect that it would work in the P port on a FlexTT5. But it may require adjusting some settings in the Flex firmware.

Just to clarify, this worked with my Nikon D4 by connecting the male pin of the hotshoe adapter to P2 on the FlexTT5, and I didn't do any special configuration on my Flex and/or Mini hardware. It worked without black bars up to 1/8000 as long as the CL-360 or CL-180 was set to full power. The downside is that the effective power of the CL-xxx drops as shutter speed is increased. This means that any change in shutter speed will require an adjustment in the camera's f/stop in order to get the correct exposure.

dmward
19th of July 2013 (Fri), 08:32
Just to clarify, this worked with my Nikon D4 by connecting the male pin of the hotshoe adapter to P2 on the FlexTT5, and I didn't do any special configuration on my Flex and/or Mini hardware. It worked without black bars up to 1/8000 as long as the CL-360 or CL-180 was set to full power. The downside is that the effective power of the CL-xxx drops as shutter speed is increased. This means that any change in shutter speed will require an adjustment in the camera's f/stop in order to get the correct exposure.

Was the CL-xxx set to H mode? It sounds like it.

The flash duration at full power is such that it could also be Hyper Sync.

I could get a clean frame with Einstein at full power with ControlTL. Don't remember how far up the shutter speed dial I went.

BigIronCruiser
19th of July 2013 (Fri), 17:41
Was the CL-xxx set to H mode? It sounds like it.

The flash duration at full power is such that it could also be Hyper Sync.

I could get a clean frame with Einstein at full power with ControlTL. Don't remember how far up the shutter speed dial I went.

No, it was NOT set to H mode.

dmward
19th of July 2013 (Fri), 19:09
No, it was NOT set to H mode.

The CL-180 has a 1/1 flash duration of 1/800. The CL-360 is 1/300. Those flash durations are long enough, especially when considering that t.1 is longer, to act as a constant light source during the shutter travel. That makes them ideal for Hyper Sync with ControlTL at full power.

The IGBT power control means that as power is reduced the flash duration decreases. Thus, H mode to help with FP-sync applications. That gives away about 1 stop so the capacitor energy can be dispersed during the rapid cycling flash. Net result is 1/1 use M. If you need to stop down, use H mode where 1/1 is same as 1/2 M.

elv
19th of July 2013 (Fri), 23:32
Thanks to all who have contributed here, it helped me make a decision to get this light. I got the Godox version (in Singapore) a couple of days back. I also have the YN622C triggers and wanted to try the H mode on the strobe.

I tried using the PC - 3.5mm cable to connect the YN622C to the AD-360 (and mounting flash on YN622) but was not able to fire correctly above sync speeds. I tried shutter speeds of 1/800 and above with the power on the flash set at all H mode levels.

Can someone who has used it guide me on how to use it?

Did you make any progress here? As David mentioned you can only use the PC sync port on the the YN-622C receiver to get the pre-sync signal required.

There's nothing to do really other than connect it up and put the CL-360 into H-mode. Even when its not is H-mode you should get similar results from the Hypersync.

Which camera body btw?
.

elv
19th of July 2013 (Fri), 23:46
When I use my 580EX on camera, I use pocketwizards to fire the Cheetah lights. One pocketwizard gets plugged into a modified base on the 580EX and is rubber banded to the flash. The other PW is attached to the Cheetah lights sync port.

Thanks Jim. That is handy having the PC out on the flash foot. David started a post about the 600EX-RT here for anyone else interested in this concept - http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1316429

Nikon users are lucky to have a PC sync out port already on their speedlights.
.

BigIronCruiser
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 14:59
For those who doubt the HSS capability of the CL-360's:

Nikon D4 with 24-70 2.8G zoomed to 45mm

Lastolite 24" Ezybox positioned 4' from subject

Triggered with PW MiniTT1 & AC3 on camera, and FlexTT5 cabled to the CL-360's Sync Port

ISO 200, 1/1600, f/2.8

CL-360 in "H" mode at 1/4 power

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_2251.jpg[/URL]

dmward
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 16:24
^^^ Great example. Also, nice portrait.
And its comforting to see that the ControlTL stuff works with the CL H mode FP sync.

Did you have to do any special setup in the firmware?

BigIronCruiser
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 16:41
^^^ Great example. Also, nice portrait.
And its comforting to see that the ControlTL stuff works with the CL H mode FP sync.

Did you have to do any special setup in the firmware?

No, there wasn't any special firmware setup; the configuration values for the Hypersync/HSS tab (in the PW Utility) are set to their defaults.

mmmfotografie
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 16:53
No, there wasn't any special firmware setup; the configuration values for the Hypersync/HSS tab (in the PW Utility) are set to their defaults.

Canon and Nikon differs in this and I had a look at it with my 5D MKIII and the AD360. I got better results with my 5D MKIII then with a 1D MKII which puzzled me. Normally that is the other way around with PW.

You can read about it in the PocketWizard forum on Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/pocketwizards/discuss/72157634428487427/

Nikkor316
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 18:54
For those who doubt the HSS capability of the CL-360's:

Nikon D4 with 24-70 2.8G zoomed to 45mm

Lastolite 24" Ezybox positioned 4' from subject

Triggered with PW MiniTT1 & AC3 on camera, and FlexTT5 cabled to the CL-360's Sync Port

ISO 200, 1/1600, f/2.8

CL-360 in "H" mode at 1/4 power

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_2251.jpg[/URL]

I have tested this with Nikon D700 and all works good with both CL180 and CL360. I only use standard manual when 1/1 but switch on H-mode when stepping the light to anything less than 1/1. My question is why the AC3 mounted on camera? I tested with it on and off. I use the cheetah transmitter to change light ratio and it works in the mini TT1 fine even in HSS sync. Just curious why the recommendations are to use SBXXX/SU800 or AC3 mounted on top of miniTT1? It can't be used to change power of CL. Perhaps if mixing with standard Nikon speedlights?

BigIronCruiser
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 19:42
I have tested this with Nikon D700 and all works good with both CL180 and CL360. I only use standard manual when 1/1 but switch on H-mode when stepping the light to anything less than 1/1. My question is why the AC3 mounted on camera? I tested with it on and off. I use the cheetah transmitter to change light ratio and it works in the mini TT1 fine even in HSS sync. Just curious why the recommendations are to use SBXXX/SU800 or AC3 mounted on top of miniTT1? It can't be used to change power of CL. Perhaps if mixing with standard Nikon speedlights?

Mixing with Nikon speedlights would necessitate the use of an AC3 or a Master-capable speedlight on the MiniTT1. I believe that using an AC3 (or SBXXX/SU800) also allows the user to selectively enable/disable the zone for the CL-xxx.

Ulysses01
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 20:48
B.I.C. thanks for checking this out with your Nikon gear. Your setup is similar to what I'm using, and I've been wondering how mixing an on-camera SB-900/910 would work with the Cheetah Lights.

Quick (dumb) question: Do you have your CL-360 mounted onto the FlexTT5 hot shoe for simplicity, as well as cabled together? or would that not work? (sorry for what may seem like a really simple question, but my PocketWizard experience is only with the Flex and Mini units via their hot shoes.)

Just to make sure I'm understanding properly: An SB-900 mounted onto a MiniTT1 on-camera, can trigger a remote set of CL-360 cabled to a FlexTT5 on your stands. But you still need the CL-TXRX (in your pocket for example) set to change the power of the CL-360 lights, is that right?

One final question: If you are slipping your CL-360 into the FlexTT5 hot shoe, how is the fit? Is it nice and tight? or is there a lot of play?

If you haven't put together this sort of setup just yet, would you mind testing it for me? If I have the above things correct, this is what I'm looking to do should I go with the Cheetah Lights. This would give me an on-camera flash (along with the AF assist lamp I rely upon), along with great remote lights. The only shortcoming is needing to pocket the CL-TXRX, but I suppose I can deal with that if necessary. Thanks in advance!

ZoranC
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 23:06
I have tested this with Nikon D700 and all works good with both CL180 and CL360.
You got HSS working with CL180 + D700 + PocketWizards? Could you please share your settings / setup as I couldn't achieve same with same gear.

BigIronCruiser
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 23:39
B.I.C. thanks for checking this out with your Nikon gear. Your setup is similar to what I'm using, and I've been wondering how mixing an on-camera SB-900/910 would work with the Cheetah Lights.

Quick (dumb) question: Do you have your CL-360 mounted onto the FlexTT5 hot shoe for simplicity, as well as cabled together? or would that not work? (sorry for what may seem like a really simple question, but my PocketWizard experience is only with the Flex and Mini units via their hot shoes.)

Just to make sure I'm understanding properly: An SB-900 mounted onto a MiniTT1 on-camera, can trigger a remote set of CL-360 cabled to a FlexTT5 on your stands. But you still need the CL-TXRX (in your pocket for example) set to change the power of the CL-360 lights, is that right?

One final question: If you are slipping your CL-360 into the FlexTT5 hot shoe, how is the fit? Is it nice and tight? or is there a lot of play?

If you haven't put together this sort of setup just yet, would you mind testing it for me? If I have the above things correct, this is what I'm looking to do should I go with the Cheetah Lights. This would give me an on-camera flash (along with the AF assist lamp I rely upon), along with great remote lights. The only shortcoming is needing to pocket the CL-TXRX, but I suppose I can deal with that if necessary. Thanks in advance!

The Cheetah fits into the Flex shoe okay, but it won't trigger the light at anything above standard sync speed. There may be a way to modify the Flex settings to make it work above x-sync, but I'm not inclined to mess around with it since I already have a working solution.

One thing I don't like is having the Flex rubber-banded to the SpeedPro Bracket. My thought is to drill a hole at the back of the slider channel, and then secure the Flex to the bottom of the bracket with a 1/4-20 wing bolt. I also want to find a sync cable with right-angles on both ends so the connectors aren't so prone to getting whacked. Anyone know where to find such a beast?

BigIronCruiser
20th of July 2013 (Sat), 23:46
You got HSS working with CL180 + D700 + PocketWizards? Could you please share your settings / setup as I couldn't achieve same with same gear.

See THIS (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=16130460&postcount=1837)post. No special configuration was needed on the PW's. It's not exactly HSS, but it does allow the Cheetah's to be used at any shutter speed.

elv
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 00:27
It's not exactly HSS, but it does allow the Cheetah's to be used at any shutter speed.

If you have the Cheetah Light in H-mode, that is FP HSS.

If you take it out of H-mode (and use full power on the flash) that is Hypersync.


So far yourself (with a D4) and Nikor316 (with a D700) appear to have this working fine in both H-Mode and Hypersync, with the PocketWizards (but Zoran doesn't for some reason).

You are all connecting the flash via the P2 port on the TT5 receiver correct? (and standard setting on the PW utility).

.

elv
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 00:37
Can any Nikon users try the PC sync port on a Nikon flash mounted on camera?

You will need a hotshoe to PC sync cord to connect the CL-Tx to the PC sync port on the flash mounted on camera.

Then simply set the flash on camera to HSS, and the CL-180/360 to H-Mode.


That way you should get the same pre-sync signal needed for HSS without any extra PocketWizards or TTL triggers needed.

.

elv
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 00:54
Canon and Nikon differs in this and I had a look at it with my 5D MKIII and the AD360. I got better results with my 5D MKIII then with a 1D MKII which puzzled me. Normally that is the other way around with PW.

You can read about it in the PocketWizard forum on Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/pocketwizards/discuss/72157634428487427/

Where did you get up to with this? Did you find some setting that are working reasonbly well?

Unfortunately once the troll starts there it doesn't make much sense anymore.
.

Gareth O'Neill
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 03:15
Has anyone tried these with the new King Pro yet? Especially interested in the Nikon version compatibility.

Ulysses01
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 05:08
One thing I don't like is having the Flex rubber-banded to the SpeedPro Bracket.

Thanks for the reply. And very much agreed. I'm extremely unlikely to band or velcro any of these pieces together. I'm looking for a cleaner solution if at all possible.



My thought is to drill a hole at the back of the slider channel, and then secure the Flex to the bottom of the bracket with a 1/4-20 wing bolt.

Is there not an accessory you can find that already has such a hole already or a that has the 1/4-20 built in so you don't have to retrofit like this?

Ulysses01
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 05:09
Has anyone tried these with the new King Pro yet? Especially interested in the Nikon version compatibility.

My guess is that these are so new that very, very few if any have actually used them yet, to say nothing of using them with the CL-360.

But I've been keeping a close eye on the Pixel King Pro trigger, too. I hope someone chimes in at some point. :)

elv
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 05:51
Has anyone tried these with the new King Pro yet? Especially interested in the Nikon version compatibility.

There is no Pixel King Pro for Nikon yet, but I have tried the Canon King Pro with the CL-180 and 360, and they work fine in HSS (H-Mode), just the same as the YN-622C.

The Cells II does provide about 3 tenths of a stop more light though.
.

Ulysses01
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 06:35
I read the Pixel King for Nikon is released in August, at least in the States.

Elv, interesting point about the Cells II triggering for more light (you mean specifically in HSS mode?). Why would that be?

Whortleberry
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 06:50
There is no Pixel King Pro for Nikon yet, but I have tried the Canon King Pro with the CL-180 and 360, and they work fine in HSS (H-Mode), just the same as the YN-622C.

The Cells II does provide about 3 tenths of a stop more light though.
.Rumour has it that the Nikon version is due next month. Rumour. Conjecture. Surmise. Wishful thinking, perhaps? Can't be too far away though, there are prototypes floating about on test.

elv
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 07:17
Elv, interesting point about the Cells II triggering for more light (you mean specifically in HSS mode?). Why would that be?

Yes in HSS mode. It has to be due to the pre-syn timing in some way.

I have another timing adjustment device, so I should be able to see if there is possibly more to gain yet over the Cels II, I just haven't had a chance to experiment with that yet.


But also at 1/250th, you can get 1/3rd of a stop more light when using full power with the Cells II as well. Because the Cells II is faster than the CL-Tx, and the flash duration is somewhere around the same as the shutter speed there, so it has to sync up right on time to get all the light out of the flash tube while the shutters still open.

elv
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 07:32
Rumour has it that the Nikon version is due next month. Rumour. Conjecture. Surmise. Wishful thinking, perhaps? Can't be too far away though, there are prototypes floating about on test.

Thanks, yes they mentioned they are speeding up development of the Nikon version on their website. It sounds like they must be reasonably close.
.

Gareth O'Neill
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 15:01
But also at 1/250th, you can get 1/3rd of a stop more light when using full power with the Cells II as well. Because the Cells II is faster than the CL-Tx, and the flash duration is somewhere around the same as the shutter speed there, so it has to sync up right on time to get all the light out of the flash tube while the shutters still open.

Woh, 1/3 stop? That's significant. Is the King Pro Cells speed or CL-Tx speed?

mmmfotografie
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 16:02
Where did you get up to with this? Did you find some setting that are working reasonbly well?

Unfortunately once the troll starts there it doesn't make much sense anymore.
.

I got HSS working but had to go back to standard channels to have the just introduced setting up to -4000 in the latest firmware. I am not a big user of HSS and rather stay under 1/250s and use a polarization or ND filter.

HSS is not very efficient and when I go to full power I have a flash duration of 1/300s which is enough to go to 1/8000s. In which you loose also a lot of emitted light because it is just bouncing of the shutter which is only opened by a fraction and moving over the sensor plane.

Hahahaha I don't see it as trolling but more as talk that is not contributing to the topic. I think the message has been received and hope it will be on-topic in the future.

BigIronCruiser
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 16:10
Thanks for the reply. And very much agreed. I'm extremely unlikely to band or velcro any of these pieces together. I'm looking for a cleaner solution if at all possible.

Is there not an accessory you can find that already has such a hole already or a that has the 1/4-20 built in so you don't have to retrofit like this?

The following images show an option for mounting the FlexTT5 to the SpeedPro Bracket. I just placed an order for this right-angle cable (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-inch-3-5mm-Male-Right-Angle-to-3-5mm-Male-Right-Angle-Stereo-Audio-Cable-/350740203874?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item51a9bec962) from a seller on steal-bay to replace the straight cable. It should make it less prone to accidental breakage.

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_0839.jpg (http://s565.photobucket.com/user/BigIronCruiser/media/DSC_0839.jpg.html)

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_0841.jpg (http://s565.photobucket.com/user/BigIronCruiser/media/DSC_0841.jpg.html)

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_0847.jpg (http://s565.photobucket.com/user/BigIronCruiser/media/DSC_0847.jpg.html)

dmward
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 16:22
BIC,
That looks good. BTW, if you want to get the tube deeper into the Bowens adapter it can be done by carefully fitting the head through the adapter before mounting it on the cold shoe. Once you've got the tightening knob past the vertical bracket the head can be moved well into the modifier.

Here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=16132021&postcount=1843) is the post in this thread. Forgot that I'd posted it here. Thought it was in another thread.

Robsphoto
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 16:25
The following images show an option for mounting the FlexTT5 to the SpeedPro Bracket. I just placed an order for this right-angle cable (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-inch-3-5mm-Male-Right-Angle-to-3-5mm-Male-Right-Angle-Stereo-Audio-Cable-/350740203874?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item51a9bec962) from a seller on steal-bay to replace the straight cable. It should make it less prone to accidental breakage.

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_0839.jpg (http://s565.photobucket.com/user/BigIronCruiser/media/DSC_0839.jpg.html)

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_0841.jpg (http://s565.photobucket.com/user/BigIronCruiser/media/DSC_0841.jpg.html)

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_0847.jpg (http://s565.photobucket.com/user/BigIronCruiser/media/DSC_0847.jpg.html)

Are the connections solid here? I have the flash with regular foot connected directly to the tt5 and moved around a lot during an esession the other day and no problems. I constantly check for tightness even with an sb900 attached.

BigIronCruiser
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 17:06
Are the connections solid here? I have the flash with regular foot connected directly to the tt5 and moved around a lot during an esession the other day and no problems. I constantly check for tightness even with an sb900 attached.

I used your attachment method in the beginning, but always felt like the plastic foot on the FlexTT5 represented a weak point. I haven't had any issues with my setup, but I regularly check all the knobs for tightness. Better to be safe than sorry.

ZoranC
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 20:14
See THIS (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=16130265&postcount=1835)post. No special configuration was needed on the PW's. It's not exactly HSS, but it does allow the Cheetah's to be used at any shutter speed.
I am bit confused with what you are saying as your link is pointing to use of YN622 _C_ for Canon. I still would love if Nikkor316 could share how exactly he went after it as him and I are having identical setup.

srikeerthi
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 21:32
Did you make any progress here? As David mentioned you can only use the PC sync port on the the YN-622C receiver to get the pre-sync signal required.

There's nothing to do really other than connect it up and put the CL-360 into H-mode. Even when its not is H-mode you should get similar results from the Hypersync.

Which camera body btw?
.

Thanks David and elv.

I was having trouble with the YN622C's that I have, where the center pin of the PC sync pin was pushing the socket of the YN622 inside.

Finally managed to plug it into one of the YN622C I had (only 1 of the 4 I have has a usable PC sync port now, gotta fix em soon) and the sync is working fine upto 1/8000.

elv
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 21:51
Woh, 1/3 stop? That's significant. Is the King Pro Cells speed or CL-Tx speed?

Ok, outside HSS (H-mode) the Cells II, YN-622C and King Pro are all pretty fast triggers, its the CL-TX which is slow there. (The Cells II uses the CL-RX so that RX is not the problem).

With HSS (H-mode) on, and at higher shutter speeds, its the early pre-sync timing that matters. In that case only the Cells II is ahead so far. So YN-622C and King Pro are equally behind about 3/10ths.

But with a timing adjustment (like PocketWizard has) it may be possible to get even better results than the Cells II in H-mode.
.

elv
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 22:01
I got HSS working but had to go back to standard channels to have the just introduced setting up to -4000 in the latest firmware. I am not a big user of HSS and rather stay under 1/250s and use a polarization or ND filter.

HSS is not very efficient and when I go to full power I have a flash duration of 1/300s which is enough to go to 1/8000s. In which you loose also a lot of emitted light because it is just bouncing of the shutter which is only opened by a fraction and moving over the sensor plane.

Hahahaha I don't see it as trolling but more as talk that is not contributing to the topic. I think the message has been received and hope it will be on-topic in the future.


Ok thanks. Yes HSS is a personal choice. But many people rely on it when they don't have time to work with filters. If you're opening the aperture a stop for every stop of shutter speed (for narrow depth of field) its only a stop behind an ND filter in light output (which is why the extra power of a CL-360 is great thing).

That poster is a constant troll, and ruins every thread where anyone responds to him. Go back 50 pages and you will see it here too, until he was banned (and unfortunately let back).

BigIronCruiser
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 22:17
I am bit confused with what you are saying as your link is pointing to use of YN622 _C_ for Canon. I still would love if Nikkor316 could share how exactly he went after it as him and I are having identical setup.

That would be an OOPS on my part because I linked to the wrong post. I corrected the my earlier post, but here it is again (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=16130460&postcount=1837) to save time.

dmward
21st of July 2013 (Sun), 22:27
Ok, outside HSS (H-mode) the Cells II, YN-622C and King Pro are all pretty fast triggers, its the CL-TX which is slow there. (The Cells II uses the CL-RX so that RX is not the problem).

With HSS (H-mode) on, and at higher shutter speeds, its the early pre-sync timing that matters. In that case only the Cells II is ahead so far. So YN-622C and King Pro are equally behind about 3/10ths.

But with a timing adjustment (like PocketWizard has) it may be possible to get even better results than the Cells II in H-mode.
.

The thing to remember is that Godox engineers are able to fine tune the FP-sync signal to the CL-xxx H mode rapid cycling to optimize the result. i.e. they know how long it takes a canon shutter to travel across the sensor. They know the FP-sync signal pulse relative to the start of shutter travel. Thus they can adjust the timing for the signal to the flash to start pulsing.

PW ControlTL knows these timings vary and provide the user a means to adjust the lead time via firmare settings. Not rocket science, just good engineering.

elv
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 00:39
The thing to remember is that Godox engineers are able to fine tune the FP-sync signal to the CL-xxx H mode rapid cycling to optimize the result. i.e. they know how long it takes a canon shutter to travel across the sensor. They know the FP-sync signal pulse relative to the start of shutter travel. Thus they can adjust the timing for the signal to the flash to start pulsing.


PW ControlTL knows these timings vary and provide the user a means to adjust the lead time via firmare settings. Not rocket science, just good engineering.

PocketWizard actually have optimized FP HSS as well, with Canon and Nikon speedlights.

So that is cutting out any excess light pulses where possible when the shutter is closed.

We don't know if anything is changing the number of light pulses with the Cheetah Lights, but you get the impression that is fixed, and the only thing that is changing is the pre-sync timing.

It would be great to have an oscilloscope to see exactly what is going on, but playing with the sync timing should tell the story.


PocketWizard engineering has actually been very frustrating when it comes to this, their timing adjustment up until the current firmware could not even achieve the standard timing you could easily get with the "hack", or YN-622C/King/Odin etc. They seem to have managed to extend that now though with the latest firmware.

Being backwards compatible has really been a drawback with the PocketWizards in some ways (that's related to the pre-sync timing issue above as well). To this day complaints with the inconsistency of the ControlTL still go on. I really wish they would start a completely fresh line of 2.4GHz triggers.
.

Whortleberry
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 01:44
Thanks David and elv.

I was having trouble with the YN622C's that I have, where the center pin of the PC sync pin was pushing the socket of the YN622 inside.

Finally managed to plug it into one of the YN622C I had (only 1 of the 4 I have has a usable PC sync port now, gotta fix em soon) and the sync is working fine upto 1/8000.Yep, had the same problem. It's an easy fix to restore function but no effective and permanent DIY solution springs to mind. Essentially, the insulator between centre contact and ring is a self-lubricating nylon cylinder running inside a plated metal tube. As such, there's always going to be the likelihood of it recurring. You could try a tiny spot of ethyl cyano-acrylate glue before pushing the sleeve back into it's case.

Like me, you obviously have at least one synch lead which is slightly too tight fit and overcomes the mechanical grip of the metal on the nylon. Mind you, in over 60 years, this is the only PC synch socket failure I've ever experienced personally so can't be too bad.

Ginga
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 03:31
Ok, outside HSS (H-mode) the Cells II, YN-622C and King Pro are all pretty fast triggers, its the CL-TX which is slow there. (The Cells II uses the CL-RX so that RX is not the problem).

With HSS (H-mode) on, and at higher shutter speeds, its the early pre-sync timing that matters. In that case only the Cells II is ahead so far. So YN-622C and King Pro are equally behind about 3/10ths.

But with a timing adjustment (like PocketWizard has) it may be possible to get even better results than the Cells II in H-mode.
.
Good to know. :)

Btw I just sent an e-mail to Godox asking them when the Cells II trigger will be available for 5D3. I'll post their answer here, if they respond.

ramin.ma
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 11:15
There is no Pixel King Pro for Nikon yet, but I have tried the Canon King Pro with the CL-180 and 360, and they work fine in HSS (H-Mode), just the same as the YN-622C.

The Cells II does provide about 3 tenths of a stop more light though.
.

The Cells II does provide about 3 tenths of a stop more light though.

Are you saying Cells II is as fast as cable? I'd really love to know this.

Nikkor316
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 11:18
You got HSS working with CL180 + D700 + PocketWizards? Could you please share your settings / setup as I couldn't achieve same with same gear.

I'll have to check on the computer when I get a chance and post the results of my PW firmware and ControlTL settings. Other than that, I tested both CL-180 and CL-360 connected to P2 on PW Flex TT5 (it cannot be connected via hotshoe only) fired by miniTT1. I had CL-Tx in bypass hotshoe of the TT1 to manually control cheetah light power. Without using HSS, I am able to use hypersync at all shutter speeds all the way to 1/8000th at 1:1 flash power. As soon as you go less than 1:1 power, you'll get the black band. At any flash power less than 1:1, you can enable H-mode on the flash (HSS) and fire up to 1/8000th shutter speed. The higher the shutter speed in H-mode, the less effective power/light output you get from the flash.

dmward
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 12:35
As soon as you go less than 1:1 power, you'll get the black band. At any flash power less than 1:1, you can enable H-mode on the flash (HSS) and fire up to 1/8000th shutter speed. The higher the shutter speed in H-mode, the less effective power/light output you get from the flash.

Matt, I know you know this but to clarify for others reading the thread for information;
The reason for this is that at full power the flash duration of the CL-XXX is long enough to illuminate the subject throughout the shutter travel. (Most modern camera shutter seem to take 1/200th of a second or so to traverse the sensor.)

When the power is reduced from full power, the IGBT power circuitry shortens the flash duration. Thus the black bar on the image -- actually a shutter curtain shadow. With care and planning, ambient light can be used to illuminate the area of the image with the shadow. Some photographers hold the camera upside down to get the shadow in the sky to darken it.

H mode on the CL-XXX solves the problem by using the same rapid cycling technique used by Canon and Nikon to provide High Speed Sync. This approach uses the capacitor energy to fire the flash at about 50K Hrz for the length of the shutter travel. This means a reduction is illuminate for any specific part of the image. With the CL-XXX lights its about 1 EV less.
This means, using the Full Power M mode as the full power baseline, that H mode Full Power is 1/2 power relative to 1/1 M mode, 1/2 is 1/4 full etc. H mode power can be reduced to 1/8.

The result is significant flexibility for a photographer wanting to use the CL-XXX as a fill or main light outside, even on a sunny day.

Ulysses01
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 14:37
The result is significant flexibility for a photographer wanting to use the CL-XXX as a fill or main light outside, even on a sunny day.

And you can do so at 2-3x the distance of a Speedlight (for the same amount of illumination), correct?

dmward
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 15:57
And you can do so at 2-3x the distance of a Speedlight (for the same amount of illumination), correct?

With the 180 the full power output is about 150Ws, the 360 is about 300 Ws. So yes, I'd say quite a bit farther.

Most people put a speedlite at about 50Ws. So we're talking 3 to 6 times the light output.

And that holds true or is even better at FP sync speeds since the speedlite HSS fall off is generally greater than 1 EV.

ZoranC
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 22:06
That would be an OOPS on my part because I linked to the wrong post. I corrected the my earlier post, but here it is again (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=16130460&postcount=1837) to save time.
Thank you!

ZoranC
22nd of July 2013 (Mon), 22:09
I'll have to check on the computer when I get a chance and post the results of my PW firmware and ControlTL settings.
Thank you in advance!

mmmfotografie
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 03:04
The following images show an option for mounting the FlexTT5 to the SpeedPro Bracket. I just placed an order for this right-angle cable (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-inch-3-5mm-Male-Right-Angle-to-3-5mm-Male-Right-Angle-Stereo-Audio-Cable-/350740203874?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item51a9bec962) from a seller on steal-bay to replace the straight cable. It should make it less prone to accidental breakage.

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss100/BigIronCruiser/DSC_0847.jpg (http://s565.photobucket.com/user/BigIronCruiser/media/DSC_0847.jpg.html)

I like to use the Manfrotto 143S Flash Shoe attachment which now have standard the hole for the locking pin that comes out of the flash foot when tightening the ring by turning on the Pocket Wizards. Be sure that it has the locking hole and if not you can drill easily because it is just plastic.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/561232-REG/Manfrotto_143S_143S_Flash_Shoe_for.html

mmmfotografie
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 14:18
During a shoot yesterday evening my light stand fell over and with my AD360 on top with the little octa on it. On inspection the first impact was on the octa which rotated the head and opened the side of the AD360 and the second impact was on the power connection.

This morning I got my tools and opened up the AD360 and pushed the pivot of the head back and noticed that a small plastic screw holder was split open. I clicked the front cover back and put the screws back in. I think the little screw holder replaceable so designed to give on impact just like the metal plate in the flash shoe.

Now I took of the the metal plate from the foot and tapped the little bent out of it and put it back.

The AD360 is really built as a tank and the head is turning as nothing happened and so it works perfectly again.

Sadly the upper part of the power pack is not that sturdy and the bit that locks the latch from the lower part broke away and I have to look for for the outer shells of for the upper part. For now bit of tape have to keep the lower part of the power pack in place.

I am really impressed by the build quality of the flash and a little less of the upper latch bit of the power pack.

I was very lucky that none of the damage was fatal and the I have tent cords to fixate the light stand and I wont make the same mistake again when putting the flash up high without the lines or sandbag.

tetrode
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 14:21
Santa has arrived in Dallas:

https://www.facebook.com/CheetahStand

Ginga
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 15:09
I am thinking about getting a larger umbrella style octabox for my CL flash, and right now I'm debating between the Softlighter II (60 inch), and the Paul C Buff PLM (64 inch, with the optional front cover).

They seem to be identical when it comes to setup, ease of use and versatility, but I just can't make up my mind.

Which one of them would you choose for your CL-flash, and why? :)

Osiriz
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 15:44
Ginga. I can not comment on the PLM, but I do have the 46" Softlighter 2, and I really like it!

It's little bit too small for full body shots, so the 60" should be a lot better. If that is what you are after.

dmward
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 15:49
I am thinking about getting a larger umbrella style octabox for my CL flash, and right now I'm debating between the Softlighter II (60 inch), and the Paul C Buff PLM (64 inch, with the optional front cover).

They seem to be identical when it comes to setup, ease of use and versatility, but I just can't make up my mind.

Which one of them would you choose for your CL-flash, and why? :)

Both of them are big enough to suggest that you will want to have the CL-XXX mounted on a Pro Bracket or similar.

I have all the PLMs and love them. I have two softliters that haven't been opened since I got the PLMs.

jcolman
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 16:03
Santa has arrived in Dallas:

https://www.facebook.com/CheetahStand

:cool: I'm hoping that the new diffuser panels follow soon. Also the bulb protectors.

dmward
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 17:11
:cool: I'm hoping that the new diffuser panels follow soon. Also the bulb protectors.

Maybe they're on the truck. :-)

Remember that list that Edward posted here a month or so ago. I think they were included. And, I think he said they were going to be in the container.

We'll have to wait till he has it unloaded. :-)

If the 2 to 1 cables are in there, I may sacrifice a Yongnou manual speedlite to see how fast I can get the recycle at full power. :-)

Wonder it there is an electronics engineer who can tell us if a capacitor can handle that kind of in-rush current.

tetrode
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 17:25
Maybe they're on the truck. :-)
...
If the 2 to 1 cables are in there, I may sacrifice a Yongnou manual speedlite to see how fast I can get the recycle at full power. :-)
...

C'mon, David. Take one for the team.

dmward
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 17:33
C'mon, David. Take one for the team.

It could be a spectacular failure. :-)

I read somewhere the claim that it doesn't increase voltage so its just more electrons moving into the capacitor. Not sure what that affects, or how it improves recycle time. I thought it was the high voltage that did that. Doubling up at the same voltage just means more mAmps from which to draw.

pwm2
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 17:36
You only get more electrons to move by either having a higher voltage or a lower resistance.

They can't affect the resistance inside the flash. But they can affect the resistance in the battery pack. I.e. they can make sure that the battery pack can keep the voltage up when loaded by the flash, instead of the voltage dipping down when the hungry capacitor tries to gobble what it can get.

dmward
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 17:46
You only get more electrons to move by either having a higher voltage or a lower resistance.

They can't affect the resistance inside the flash. But they can affect the resistance in the battery pack. I.e. they can make sure that the battery pack can keep the voltage up when loaded by the flash, instead of the voltage dipping down when the hungry capacitor tries to gobble what it can get.


I expect that's how it improves recycle time, twice the source of electrons. :-)

pwm2
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 17:54
I expect that's how it improves recycle time, twice the source of electrons. :-)
Half the current from each source, so each source can better manage to keep up without the voltage dipping. So end result is a higher charge current and hence a shorter recycle time. And hence also more heat issues in the poor flash :p

tetrode
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 18:01
It could be a spectacular failure. :-)
...

Worst comes to worst, you wind up with a viral Youtube video.

dmward
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 18:21
Worst comes to worst, you wind up with a viral Youtube video.
Oh, so you want me to video this experiment.

What if my hair catches on fire? I make a really ugly bald guy. Come to thing of it, the hair probably doesn't make much difference. :-)

pwm2
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 18:51
But the video would go even more viral :p

Whortleberry
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 18:58
(1) Oh, so you want me to video this experiment.

(2)What if my hair catches on fire? I make a really ugly bald guy. Come to thing of it, the hair probably doesn't make much difference. :-)
(1) Yes please. I promise to watch many times and enhance your 'score' - you even could become a high flyer (again).
(2) My parents always taught me that it was the height of bad manners to disagree with someone without incontrovertible evidence to back up such a stance. I wouldn't want to be considered ill-mannered!

OK, OK, ducking and running for cover. :oops: :lol:

dmward
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 19:19
Phil,
I remember walking down the street in York one evening after dinner and being reminded by a resident that the reason its good manners for a gentleman to walk on the street side of his lady was because the citizens used to empty their chamber pots out the second story windows. They then pointed upward toward what we americans call the second floor which was sticking out about half way to the street from the ground floor.

But I digress... :-)

I do hope that the 2-to-1 cable is effective shortening recycle time in the Cheetah Lights, if also improves speedlite performance so much the better. :-)

tetrode
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 19:22
Phil,
...
I do hope that the 2-to-1 cable is effective shortening recycle time in the Cheetah Lights, if also improves speedlite performance so much the better. :-)

If it doesn't you may well have created your first IED.

dmward
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 19:29
If it doesn't you may well have created your first IED.

LOL.

That's rich.

Three great minds here, we have to be able to come up with something that is actually constructive for the thread. :-)

And considering the time, and where he lives, Phil should be in bed. :-)

Whortleberry
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 20:03
Bed? But this is the time of day when nobody sane is awake - so I get loads done cos the phone never rings. Sheer bliss.

Perfectly true about the chamber pots by the way. That's where the twee term 'loo' (aka bathroom) originated - French "Gardy-loo" (Gardez l'eau) for 'watch out below' - although we usually attribute it to Edinburgh and the strong historical connections with France.

In theory at least, the 2-to-1 should work perfectly as it relies on reduced resistance in parallel circuits. And DECENT capacitors!

Csae
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 20:28
LOL.

That's rich.

Three great minds here, we have to be able to come up with something that is actually constructive for the thread. :-)

And considering the time, and where he lives, Phil should be in bed. :-)

I'm gonna have to pull an Oskar here.

:rolleyes:

Nikkor316
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 21:15
Thank you in advance!

Here's my PW firmware setting for HSS tab:

Nikkor316
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 21:18
@ZoranC: On your Nikon D700, make sure under the Custom Setting Menu, go to "e - Bracketing/Flash" and change "e1" Flash sync speed to 1/320s (Auto FP).

Let me know if that helps.

dmward
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 22:17
I'm gonna have to pull an Oskar here.

:rolleyes:

It probably would have been better to use "maybe" or "at least" as adjectives.

ZoranC
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 22:37
Here's my PW firmware setting for HSS tab:
Thank you again!

ZoranC
23rd of July 2013 (Tue), 22:39
@ZoranC: On your Nikon D700, make sure under the Custom Setting Menu, go to "e - Bracketing/Flash" and change "e1" Flash sync speed to 1/320s (Auto FP).
When I was trying it was at 1/250 Auto FP but it's my understanding that shouldn't have made a difference as long as it was Auto FP.

Ginga
24th of July 2013 (Wed), 00:00
Ginga. I can not comment on the PLM, but I do have the 46" Softlighter 2, and I really like it!

It's little bit too small for full body shots, so the 60" should be a lot better. If that is what you are after.

Both of them are big enough to suggest that you will want to have the CL-XXX mounted on a Pro Bracket or similar.

I have all the PLMs and love them. I have two softliters that haven't been opened since I got the PLMs.
Thanks guys.

Yes I'll be using a bracket for sure. :)

bobsha
24th of July 2013 (Wed), 04:30
Thanks guys.

Yes I'll be using a bracket for sure. :)

You may find this usefull,

http://strobist.blogspot.it/2013/05/q-photek-softlighter-ii-or-paul-buff-plm.html

I'd personally go for the the PLM soft Silver or Extreme silver (love that catchlight) with additional fill.

PS: Thank you everyone for this thread, you've helped me out picking the right gear (2 AD/CL 360) and i'm more intrigued than ever. And thank you also for your warm an friendly reception in this forum.

Cheers

Robert from Milan (On a Nikon :P)

elv
24th of July 2013 (Wed), 11:16
Maybe they're on the truck. :-)

If the 2 to 1 cables are in there, I may sacrifice a Yongnou manual speedlite to see how fast I can get the recycle at full power. :-)




I have the 2 into 1 cable here... and an original YN-560.

I can't bring myself to do it though. 0.6 seconds is already fast, if that did go to 0.3 seconds... surely that can't be healthy.

Though the Sky Eagle pack is 3000mAh total, what's another 1500 :-).
.

Csae
24th of July 2013 (Wed), 11:27
mAh won't make your flash explodes, thats capacity not output. 1500mah just means it'll last longer, not that its giving more juice faster to your flash.

tetrode
24th of July 2013 (Wed), 11:38
I have the 2 into 1 cable here... and an original YN-560.

I can't bring myself to do it though. 0.6 seconds is already fast, if that did go to 0.3 seconds... surely that can't be healthy...
.

Please don't try to talk David out of his experiment, Elv. We're all looking forward to the video.

mmmfotografie
24th of July 2013 (Wed), 13:51
As already told my AD360 on a extended light stand fell over and the thing what not yet was repaired was the power pack which hit also a rock and dislodging the battery en ripping out the retention bit.

I went today to work to repair that and only glue would not do it so I cut a piece out of a hair clip that made of steel that is working as an spring.

First I made with a saw two slots and then super glued the steel spring in. After some grinding it fits OK and I don't have to put tape on the side any more to keep the battery in place.

Anyone a suggestion which material I can use to close the broken out part with to have also a nice look on the outside?

Whortleberry
24th of July 2013 (Wed), 16:32
As already told my AD360 on a extended light stand fell over and the thing what not yet was repaired was the power pack which hit also a rock and dislodging the battery en ripping out the retention bit.

I went today to work to repair that and only glue would not do it so I cut a piece out of a hair clip that made of steel that is working as an spring.

First I made with a saw two slots and then super glued the steel spring in. After some grinding it fits OK and I don't have to put tape on the side any more to keep the battery in place.

Anyone a suggestion which material I can use to close the broken out part with to have also a nice look on the outside?I have VERY successfully used a 2-part epoxy glue (Araldite (http://www.go-araldite.com/en/products/epoxy-adhesives/aralditer-standard-2-x-15ml-tube) in the UK) as a filler for this type of job - the most long-lived was to fill the hole in a car headlight lens (edge, not the beam forming part). This lasted for several years through all sorts of weather and never failed roadworthiness tests either (it actually fascinated the testing stations).You could colour this with something like turmeric food additive to get approximately the orange colour of your pack.

The easy way to get a smooth finish on the outside would be to fill in the hole slightly above the surface and then apply a very advanced technique. Wet your finger thoroughly with saliva and smooth quite firmly over the outside area while the glue is still plastic (ie not super-runny but not yet cured hard). You can achieve a remarkably smooth finish this way - I've used this technique quite a number of times on various projects with 100% success.

You'll have to experiment with the turmeric to get the right colour, of course. An alternative would be one of the colourants used to make fishing bait even more attractive to fishermen; it could possibly also work on the fish but it quite definitely attracts fishermen who are nearly as gullible over gadgets as photographers. A third alternative weould be to try powder paint although I'm not sure what effect this would have on durability.

If you aren't happy with the standard of finish using saliva, you can smooth the hardened glue with 1200 or 2000 grit wet & dry carbide abrasive. BTW, if you use the saliva on finger method only lick your finger ONCE - it doesn't taste very nice the second time. Go on - ask me how I know this!! Or deduce for yourself ;)

Either variety of Araldite will do the job - the standard variety is stronger but takes 24 hours to cure while the 5 minute variety cures 288 times faster (in ? minutes, surprisingly enough) but the 'open' time gives you less time working on the epoxy/saliva interface.

Just in case someone reads this and thinks it's a joke, I assure you that I am totally serious. It really does work remarkable well. But then they did use the stuff to glue bits of Sydney Opera House together! Again, not joking!

PS. Making the perhaps erroneous assumption that you're male - can I ask how come you have some hair clips?? :lol:

mmmfotografie
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 08:04
I have VERY successfully used a 2-part epoxy glue (Araldite (http://www.go-araldite.com/en/products/epoxy-adhesives/aralditer-standard-2-x-15ml-tube) in the UK) as a filler for this type of job - the most long-lived was to fill the hole in a car headlight lens (edge, not the beam forming part). This lasted for several years through all sorts of weather and never failed roadworthiness tests either (it actually fascinated the testing stations).You could colour this with something like turmeric food additive to get approximately the orange colour of your pack.

The easy way to get a smooth finish on the outside would be to fill in the hole slightly above the surface and then apply a very advanced technique. Wet your finger thoroughly with saliva and smooth quite firmly over the outside area while the glue is still plastic (ie not super-runny but not yet cured hard). You can achieve a remarkably smooth finish this way - I've used this technique quite a number of times on various projects with 100% success.

You'll have to experiment with the turmeric to get the right colour, of course. An alternative would be one of the colourants used to make fishing bait even more attractive to fishermen; it could possibly also work on the fish but it quite definitely attracts fishermen who are nearly as gullible over gadgets as photographers. A third alternative weould be to try powder paint although I'm not sure what effect this would have on durability.

If you aren't happy with the standard of finish using saliva, you can smooth the hardened glue with 1200 or 2000 grit wet & dry carbide abrasive. BTW, if you use the saliva on finger method only lick your finger ONCE - it doesn't taste very nice the second time. Go on - ask me how I know this!! Or deduce for yourself ;)

Either variety of Araldite will do the job - the standard variety is stronger but takes 24 hours to cure while the 5 minute variety cures 288 times faster (in ? minutes, surprisingly enough) but the 'open' time gives you less time working on the epoxy/saliva interface.

Just in case someone reads this and thinks it's a joke, I assure you that I am totally serious. It really does work remarkable well. But then they did use the stuff to glue bits of Sydney Opera House together! Again, not joking!

PS. Making the perhaps erroneous assumption that you're male - can I ask how come you have some hair clips?? :lol:

Thank you so much Whortleberry and I going to try that and I am going for the slow version.

I am doing model shoots and as photographer you collect a lot of things that a male person normally not needs but the female models do forgot to put in their suitcases/bags. I have now to add paracetamol to it and in the studio I have it, but not when I do shoots outside. Next time I will have it when a model asks for it. Today I received a portable dressing room if a model has to change. You have to keep them happy. :D

Disclaimer, girl not included and please, don't fold down the dressing room before removing the person inside first. ;)

You can use the dressing room in a horizontal way if the model tries to put on pants that are to tight for her. After an all clear, from the person inside, you can put the dressing room a upright position again or leave it horizontal and just open the zipper and roll over the dressing room. In doing this the dressing room cleans itself from person(s) and clothes still present inside.

dmward
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 09:28
Just added this post (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=16152542&postcount=29) to a thread I started about triggering via the flash.

I was looking for a way to have an ETTL speedlite on camera and fire remote strobes via a trigger attached to the speedlite. Canon, in its wisdom, has decided not to provide an out fire signal on the PC connection on the 600EX-RT.

Rand suggested the Strato II Multi as an option. I ordered a trigger/receiver set and tested.

They work as expected, but do not pass an FP-Sync to the Strato receiver. Thus, the Cheetah Lights do not offer H mode benefits using this approach. Still very useful for combining on camera ETTL with remote CLs below X-Sync speed.

The nice thing is that mounting the CL-Tx in the Strato II receiver means having remote power control of all the CLs and also having control of the ETTL features of the on-camera speedlite. And no cables or dangling receivers.

dmward
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 10:40
Had another thought, so I gave it a try as well.
I have a Fujifilm X-Pro-1 (I loved my Leica M-4s :-) ) and I knew I could use it with the CLs via the CL-Tx, but that's kind of a big trigger on such a nice little camera. So...

I mounted the Strato II trigger on the XP1 and put the CL-Tx in the Strato II receiver, as expected success!

Here's a test shot. CL-360 in a 28" beauty dish with sock mounted on a Pro Bracket. The diffusion sock is about 30" from the peach and feathered just slightly behind and up. CL-360 is set to 1/64th power in M mode. Camera settings: 1/125 shutter, F2.8 and ISO 200 (lowest available on XP1). Lens was the XF-60 F2.4. It has macro focus capabilities but not used here.

Ambient exposure calculated by the camera would require ISO 1600 for same shutter speed and F stop. That's 3 EV so realistically, the CL-360 is doing all the lighting.

This image was imported using my recipe for XP1 to simulate Kodachrome 25.

elv
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 12:28
Just added this post (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=16152542&postcount=29) to a thread I started about triggering via the flash.

I was looking for a way to have an ETTL speedlite on camera and fire remote strobes via a trigger attached to the speedlite. Canon, in its wisdom, has decided not to provide an out fire signal on the PC connection on the 600EX-RT.

Rand suggested the Strato II Multi as an option. I ordered a trigger/receiver set and tested.

They work as expected, but do not pass an FP-Sync to the Strato receiver. Thus, the Cheetah Lights do not offer H mode benefits using this approach. Still very useful for combining on camera ETTL with remote CLs below X-Sync speed.

The nice thing is that mounting the CL-Tx in the Strato II receiver means having remote power control of all the CLs and also having control of the ETTL features of the on-camera speedlite. And no cables or dangling receivers.


The Strato II has a more secure pass through hotshoe, but why would you not just use the YN-622C, if you wanted just the one ETTL flash on camera, and CL-360's to fire in HSS (connected to YN-622C receivers).
.

windpig
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 12:56
1941 posts, OMG!

dmward
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 13:16
The Strato II has a more secure pass through hotshoe, but why would you not just use the YN-622C, if you wanted just the one ETTL flash on camera, and CL-360's to fire in HSS (connected to YN-622C receivers).
.

Elv, If I needed the CL-XXX to fire in H mode with a flash on the hotshoe that's what I'd do.

But this is more about how to have an ETTL flash on the camera and other manual strobes being fired via a trigger system with minimum complexity when at or below X-Sync. The Strato II becomes the manual trigger to replace the mini-jack in the side of the speedlite Flash Zebra offers for older Canon Speedlites.

Using this method, I can have a 600EX-RT on the camera, a couple around the dance floor, all controlled from the camera via the 600EX-RT menus. And, also one or more CL-XXXs in the far reaches of the venue lighting it up. And I can control them via the CL-Tx for power.

The YN-622c takes over the camera to flash connection and makes the 600EX-RT into a 580EXII.

The Strato II does not interfere with the 600EX-RT in anyway. Its apparently a mechanical connection between foot and shoe because it works with the Strato II turned off as well.

Csae
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 21:31
You guys are getting so in-depth on one specific topic that it might warrant its own thread, just a suggestion.

That way its easier to find in search results when someone looks up the particular topic.

elv
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 21:32
Using this method, I can have a 600EX-RT on the camera, a couple around the dance floor, all controlled from the camera via the 600EX-RT menus. And, also one or more CL-XXXs in the far reaches of the venue lighting it up. And I can control them via the CL-Tx for power.
.
.
The Strato II does not interfere with the 600EX-RT in anyway. Its apparently a mechanical connection between foot and shoe because it works with the Strato II turned off as well.

Ok thanks for that, I didn't realise you wanted to use off camera Canon RF as well.

Yes the Stratto II are more of a direct pass through than most, but I'm not sure that the signal doens't still run through the processor, or at least some extra circuitry, as they do have issues with some things mounted on top. The Cells II won't fire on top of the Strato II pass through for example.

The Strato II are still my favorite all round manual triggers though. The pass through comes in handy for all sorts of things. You can use the grouping feature to test fire CL lights individually if needed.
.

windpig
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 21:45
Can we agree that Edward is a great vendor to deal with?

dmward
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 22:22
Can we agree that Edward is a great vendor to deal with?

Without question!

dmward
25th of July 2013 (Thu), 22:25
You guys are getting so in-depth on one specific topic that it might warrant its own thread, just a suggestion.

That way its easier to find in search results when someone looks up the particular topic.

Case, If you've been following this thread through its 1900 plus post evolution, you'll remember that there have been many times that its delved deeply into a characteristic of the CL lights, and how they interact with various other pieces of the puzzle. The thread has always come back to its central theme.

I expect it will again.

windpig
26th of July 2013 (Fri), 13:03
Without question!

Then this thread should be put back on track relative to the CL180 and CL360 in the non hypersync usage, as Edward requested. I'm making this comment on my own volition because I think these units are a great alternative to a number of portable flash options and I've been recommending the link to this thread, digging through the minutia of oversynch makes it difficult to reasonably vet out the basic information.

silvrbullet
26th of July 2013 (Fri), 13:34
There has been some question on using the Cheetah lights with a PLM. This is how I primarily use my CL-180, so I thought I would post an example.


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5452/9370236367_6acf0457e2_b.jpg


This was taken with a 51" extreme silver PLM with diffusion fabric. The PLM is reverse mounted via a 3/8" steel rod going into a grip head. The steel rod is held in place by the 8-32 set screw on the end of the PLM (I have replaced it with a longer screw, and drilled a dimple in the 3/8" rod for safety).

The rod insert that holds the PCB cage has an 5/16-24 thread to accommodate the supplied bolt for attaching the cage. I couldn't find a shoulder bolt long enough, so I tapped the other end of the shaft to accept a 5/16-18 thread. I thread the shoulder bolt through the Cheetah umbrella holder, and through the umbrella reflector, then screw it into the rod insert. Completely secure.

That might be confusing as hell... Maybe I should post a pic of the setup..