Band Photography - Starting Over???

[jwilson]

Also posted in "Cornering the Pros"....The band that I've been shooting for awhile now and was using to spread the word about my work just broke up! I no longer have the connection to new bands for potential jobs. The problem is I'm not that familiar with the West Michigan music scene at this point. I do know that there are only a couple of "established" band photographers in the area and one seems to have the lion's share of the business. But comparing our work, I know I'm just as good if not better (hope that doesn't sound conceited) than the established guy. The band I was shooting used to use the established guy but I offered my services for free for one job to prove myself. They dropped him completely and hired me for every one of their gigs after they saw their pics. My work, I think, speaks for itself (I've received favorable remarks on this forum for some of my band pics). Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Jeff

[Steve Parr]

Also posted in "Cornering the Pros"....The band that I've been shooting for awhile now and was using to spread the word about my work just broke up! I no longer have the connection to new bands for potential jobs. The problem is I'm not that familiar with the West Michigan music scene at this point. I do know that there are only a couple of "established" band photographers in the area and one seems to have the lion's share of the business. But comparing our work, I know I'm just as good if not better (hope that doesn't sound conceited) than the established guy. The band I was shooting used to use the established guy but I offered my services for free for one job to prove myself. They dropped him completely and hired me for every one of their gigs after they saw their pics. My work, I think, speaks for itself (I've received favorable remarks on this forum for some of my band pics). Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Jeff

Well, this is how I see it.

You say the now disbanded band dropped the other guy once they saw your photos. If it happened once, it can happen again.

Basically, just go out and shoot. Shoot bands that you don’t know, and hand each member a business card after the gig. Bands are rarely true democracies, and the odds are that one of the members, and you won’t know who, is the unofficial “leader”. That’s why you hand everyone a card. Tell them you’ve got pictures of them, and they should contact you if they’d like to see them. Musicians have huge egos. They’ll call, especially if you tell them while you’re holding a big ol’ DSLR in your hands. They’ll notice that.

Tell them you’ll offer them a dozen or so shots for free, just so they can get a better idea of your work. Make it clear, as you evidently did with the first band, that subsequent gigs are for hire. Tell them to compare both the quality of work and pricing with the “established” guy. It’ll be their decision, so make sure you’re up to the task.

I also work with a local recording studio and a local promoter. Both are in regular contact with a wide array of musicians. If someone is recording a CD, hey, they’re going to need some photos for, at least, the cover. This is where the recording studio comes into play; the owner spreads the word. He has both my business cards and fliers to hand out to anyone interested. With the promoter, he’s booking bands into a couple of different clubs here in the San Diego area. When he books a band, he tells them about me and gives them my contact information.

Three weeks ago, I went and shot a band, on a Thursday night. I gave them about 15 shots for free. They hired me for a gig at the same bar this Thursday for $275.00. Suddenly, those free 15 shots look like a sound investment.

Also, approach the clubs themselves. They may want to have a “house photographer” that is paid a set amount, either per gig or per month. These, I think, are rare, but they’re out there.

Above all, don’t be shy. If someone believes you’re arrogant or conceited, back it up with quality of work; show them that you’re good. Don’t ever be afraid of that. If you are, you’ll work sporadically, at best, and for very little money.

Sell yourself. You’re not only selling your services but, to a degree, you’re selling yourself, as well. If a band gets even the slightest impression that you don’t know every little thing about every little detail about shooting a band, they’ll look elsewhere. If you don’t know the answer to a question, tell them that, but also tell them that you’ll have the answer before you shoot.

Get to know the clubs around town. Find out if they have crappy, decent, or good lighting systems. If someone says “Well, we’re playing in Club A on Friday”, you’ll be prepared to say “Well, the lighting in Club A kinda’ sucks. Why don’t I shoot you when you play at Club B, instead? They have much better lighting there”. You’ll then be known as someone who: A) knows something about the local clubs, and B) is concerned with providing a quality product. This will leave a positive impression.

It’s a tough gig, even when there aren’t a lot of people working the turf. Despite the size of San Diego, there aren’t too many people who specialize in this type of photography. Still, I’m having to work my ass of (a considerable chore, mind you) to “get the word out”. I’ve got some website credits and some CD cover (liner notes) credits, but it’s still tough. But, I figure I won’t reap the rewards if I don’t put forth the effort, so, there ya’ go.

Good luck …

Steve

[phishhead_23]

Great post....this is relevant to me too. One other suggestion is to go onto a site like myspace.com and find local bands near you and offer to shoot them like steve suggested. In Chicago, there is also a website for bands (a classified ad type of thing) that you can advertise for free on. I'm planning to do that once I get comfortable with my new 50mm 1.4.

On a side note, how much do band photographers usually charge? And, do you normally shoot in RAW?

[Steve Parr]

On a side note, how much do band photographers usually charge?

That's going to depend on a couple of different things.

I shoot, primarily, bar bands. I was in a bar band for a long time, so I know that one thing bar bands don't have a lot of is money to spend on a photographer. Consequently, one of my main concerns is pricing myself out of the market, while still receiving what I feel is a fair fee for my work.

I charge a flat fee of $145.00 for up to a four hour shoot. I've been told that I should charge more but, if I did, I probably wouldn't get hired as much, because of the aforementioned reason of spare band income.

If I have to drive to Los Angeles (I'm in San Diego), there's a fee for that, which is negotiated. If I have to go to a bad part of town, the fee is higher than if I have to go to Malibu.

For what I'm paid, the band gets the following: They get a CD with at least 50 quality, usable images. "Usable" is defined by their photographic quality. If the band decides they don't want to use the photos because they think they look silly with their eyeliner (yes, that's happened), well, that's on them, not me. They get the rights to use the photos for website content, CD covers, promotional posters, and the like. In every instance, they agree to a written credit on whatever they're using the images. I'll probably amend this, as two of the bands I work with regularly are starting to make a name for themselves, and the "fair" fee could, eventually, get somewhat higher.

As each gig is a separate deal, they can either agree or disagree with new terms. For the most part, though, my terms stay the same.

Some other things to keep in mind, specifically regarding contacting the clubs. They won't be willing to pay you your "standard" band fee each time you shoot. Instead, they'll be more likely to pay you a "retainer" of sorts. You make less per gig, but it's a regular shooting gig that you're getting paid for. And, if you want people (specifically bands) to notice you, let them see you shooting each time they play a club. Hey, if you're good enough to shoot for the club, surely you must be good enough to do some contract work for them, right?

Again, the gig is tough. Seriously, getting good shots is the easy part of the whole deal. Get out there, and just let people see you with your camera. Get seen enough, and people start talking about "that guy with the camera".

One of the first bands I shot joked with a bar patron that I was from Rolling Stone. Well, that bar patron happened to be in a band, and stopped to talk to me. I quickly let the cat out of the bag that I was not from Rolling Stone, but the ice was broken; he wanted to talk about me shooting his band.

One other thing: I'm not too proud to say that I drive a mini-van; a Dodge Caravan. On the back window, and then smaller on the side windows, are stickers with my website. It never fails, for two days after I shoot a gig at a club, where I parked my van outside, the traffic to my website spikes.

Sorry for the length of this; I love talkin' about this stuff. Just start small, be methodical, and you'll find yourself shooting a lot more often than you thought you would be...

Steve

[DwightMcCann]

Steve, this is by far the best, most complete and informative, starting club shooting advice I have seen, bar none! Your posts have covered all the important "how to get started" and what to charge (the BIG issues for most) in a clear succinct and well explained way. It's time for your book! :-) Seriously, this is wonderful. I have the casino now but when I retire I will be looking for this sort of work and this is killer wisdom. Thank you.

[Steve Parr]

Steve, this is by far the best, most complete and informative, starting club shooting advice I have seen, bar none! Your posts have covered all the important "how to get started" and what to charge (the BIG issues for most) in a clear succinct and well explained way. It's time for your book! :-) Seriously, this is wonderful. I have the casino now but when I retire I will be looking for this sort of work and this is killer wisdom. Thank you.

Wow, thanks Dwight!

I take, what I hope, is a very common sense approach to this type of shooting. When I first started, I shot two "guinea pig" bands, built a website, and waited for the phone to start ringing.

How odd that it didn't happen.

I've been in sales since I retired from the Navy, and this type of shooting, because of the clientele, takes a great deal of salesmanship. Musicians don't generally like to part with their cash for stuff like this.

It took me a while to realize that my potential customers weren't only the guys on stage, but also the guys who booked them into the clubs, and the clubs themselves.

It's all about networking; bands, clubs, promoters, recording studios, Hell, I even gave some cards to the guy at my local bagel shop. You just don't know who knows who.

I also want to point out that I don't make a living at this. I'm a Regional Sales Manager for a guitar company. As much as I enjoy that (I dig the travel), I love shooting bands. If I knew I could make my living doing this, I'd quit my day job in a New York minute.

As it is, I'm just a hack who's pretty good at one particular form of photography. But it's a form of photography in which I think I'm progressing nicely, through both technique and equipment. So, I might as well work it as much as I can, and see where it leads.

It's been a fun trip so far...

Steve

[Steve Parr]

Oh, and Dwight, any time you want to switch photography gigs, lemme' know!

:lol:

Steve

[phishhead_23]

Steve, what is the primary lens that you use when you shoot bands?

[jwilson]

Steve, all I can say is WOW!!!! Great advice. Thanks. Oh, BTW...I don't believe we say it enough...Thanks for your service. I'm currently in the Navy Reserves...3 years to go until retirement!!! My wife is quite anxious for that! Especially since I give at least one w/e a month to Uncle Sam and then another w/e shooting for a client, ie. wedding, another w/e (when the weather's right) shooting landscapes (I sell them in a local gallery) - and now I'm trying to give up some nights to band photography!!! Let's just say I have to buy alot of flowers and jewelry!!!!

Lastly, I certainly do miss San Diego - well, I miss the weather and the great golf courses. I was stationed there from 93-95. I don't know why I let my wife talk me into moving back to Michigan when I got off active duty!!!!!!

Jeff

[Steve Parr]

Steve, what is the primary lens that you use when you shoot bands?

My primary lens is the 85mm f/1.8. I also use the 28mm on ocassion. I tend to stay away from the 50mm, as I think it's kinda' "flat" (not sure if that's the right word) in those situations. Don't get me worn, the photos come out fins, there's just no "personality" to them. I've found that going with a longer or shorter lens makes the shot a bit more dynamic.

I'm shooting a band Thursday, and it'll be the first time shooting a band with the 20D. I'm going to try to use the 70-200mm f/2.8L almost exclusively. The 20D can handle the low-light better than the 300D, so I'm comfortable going with the f/2.8. I know, though, that I'll probably still take some with the 85mm...

Steve

[Steve Parr]

Steve, all I can say is WOW!!!! Great advice. Thanks. Oh, BTW...I don't believe we say it enough...Thanks for your service. I'm currently in the Navy Reserves...3 years to go until retirement!!! My wife is quite anxious for that! Especially since I give at least one w/e a month to Uncle Sam and then another w/e shooting for a client, ie. wedding, another w/e (when the weather's right) shooting landscapes (I sell them in a local gallery) - and now I'm trying to give up some nights to band photography!!! Let's just say I have to buy alot of flowers and jewelry!!!!

Lastly, I certainly do miss San Diego - well, I miss the weather and the great golf courses. I was stationed there from 93-95. I don't know why I let my wife talk me into moving back to Michigan when I got off active duty!!!!!!

Jeff

The Reserves is a tougher gig than most people realize. I figured I'd knock my 20 out on active duty. And the "thanks" goes both ways, pal.

As for San Diego, well, it dipped all the way into the low-70's yesterday. I almost had to break out a sweater...

Steve

[jwilson]

"As for San Diego, well, it dipped all the way into the low-70's yesterday. I almost had to break out a sweater..."

Thanks for rubbing it in....

Jeff

[Ballen Photo]

Steve, I want to thank you for writing this article. I find it has provided great insight and advice. I can say that to the best of my knowledge, you have summed up the question "How to get started in Band Photography?" quite well. I got talked into shooting promos for a Talent Agency here in Vegas, that I actually helped the guy open. We have long since parted company.
After reading your essay, I realised that I would have been better off freelancing. :rolleyes:
-Bruce

[Steve Parr]

Steve, I want to thank you for writing this article. I find it has provided great insight and advice. I can say that to the best of my knowledge, you have summed up the question "How to get started in Band Photography?" quite well. I got talked into shooting promos for a Talent Agency here in Vegas, that I actually helped the guy open. We have long since parted company.
After reading your essay, I realised that I would have been better off freelancing. :rolleyes:
-Bruce

Well, thanks, Bruce.

Freelancing ain't easy; not by a long shot. I would suspect that it's even harder to do in Vegas. I just get the impression that, with all of the acts that fill the clubs, lounges, and concert stages, that it would be a bit competitive.

Like I said, I just take, what I think, is a common sense approach. I'll put myself in the other guys' shoes, and try to imagine what I'd expect a photographer to say to me if he wants me to hire him. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...

Steve

[phishhead_23]

My primary lens is the 85mm f/1.8. I also use the 28mm on ocassion. I tend to stay away from the 50mm, as I think it's kinda' "flat" (not sure if that's the right word) in those situations. Don't get me worn, the photos come out fins, there's just no "personality" to them. I've found that going with a longer or shorter lens makes the shot a bit more dynamic.

I'm shooting a band Thursday, and it'll be the first time shooting a band with the 20D. I'm going to try to use the 70-200mm f/2.8L almost exclusively. The 20D can handle the low-light better than the 300D, so I'm comfortable going with the f/2.8. I know, though, that I'll probably still take some with the 85mm...

Steve

You wouldn't happen to still keep a website so I can see some examples? I just ordered a 50mm...:rolleyes:

[Steve Parr]

You wouldn't happen to still keep a website so I can see some examples? I just ordered a 50mm...:rolleyes:

Sho'nuf: www.onstagephotography.com

Look at the Galleries section.

A lot of those shots are somewhat older, taken before the advent of a certain degree of common sense on my part...

Steve