permission given to a model?

[Ray Marrero]

I need to practice... to I have a friend model for me for TFCD. I am having her sign a model release for me. What do I give her, so she won't have a problem printing or using the images on the CD? Is there such a thing as a permission release?

[mbze430]

For TFCD work, the contract can be written in anyway the 2 party wants. Normally if I do shoot TFCD, I give them small files. 4x6@120 dpi. This will give them a "taste". And more than likely they won't be able to make presentable prints at 8x10 or 11x14 (industry standards). However 4x6@120 dpi will give them abilities to use them for Zed/Comp cards.

Whatever you give them you must make certain you agree before you shoot. There are just too many 'aftermath' if its unclear. Make certain that the client knows exactly how many photos he/she will be getting. Never make a promise of useable shots, because what you think are useable isn't going to be useable for others. Also make certain that the client also know if these images will be edited or not. Some will assume they are. You'll be a whole world of hurt if you promised them 200 shots and they expect all of them edited for no pay.

Hope this helps.

[Ray Marrero]

Thanks mbze430, the reason I ask is because once I had a tough time getting my pictures back from Walmart. The lady at the counter said there were professional... it took my a while to explain to her that I was the photographer and owned the copyrights to the images. I am trying to prevent this from happening to my model friend, since I know she will be printing from Walmart.

[mbze430]

I don't see why would Walmart intervien with your photos. Oh well, I dont know much about their operation.

Good Luck

[liza]

Both Walmart and Sam's Club gave me a hard time when I was getting some proofs printed. I just sign a release, give them a business card, and tell them I would appreciate any referrals they might send my way.

[Steve Parr]

What is "TFCD"?

Steve

[mbze430]

TFCD = Trade For CD (Images on CD). This time of age, hardly anyone does TFP (Trade for Prints)

[symes]

What is "TFCD"?

Steve


Steve,

I believe it is Time for CD or Time for prints...

Cheers,

[Ray Marrero]

Both Walmart and Sam's Club gave me a hard time when I was getting some proofs printed. I just sign a release, give them a business card, and tell them I would appreciate any referrals they might send my way.

Where did you get that release, and what does it say? I think I need one.

[liza]

They have a form they ask you to sign releasing them from liability should there be an issue with copyright. You have to attest that you are the photographer and have the right to reproduce the images.

[Ray Marrero]

They have a form they ask you to sign releasing them from liability should there be an issue with copyright. You have to attest that you are the photographer and have the right to reproduce the images.

But she is not the photographer, I am. She will have a cd with the pictures on it. Do they have a form attesting that I gave her the right to print? I guess I can go to walmart and find out. Thanks.

[Steve Parr]

TFCD = Trade For CD (Images on CD). This time of age, hardly anyone does TFP (Trade for Prints)

Got it.

Thanks...

Steve

[liza]

But she is not the photographer, I am. She will have a cd with the pictures on it. Do they have a form attesting that I gave her the right to print? I guess I can go to walmart and find out. Thanks.

Oh, I see. I recently gave a girl I photographed a CD with a few proofs on it and wrote a simple "release" on the back of one of my business cards. I figure WalMart can call me if they have any questions.

[crsouser]

But she is not the photographer, I am. She will have a cd with the pictures on it. Do they have a form attesting that I gave her the right to print? I guess I can go to walmart and find out. Thanks.

Ok, I realize Walmart employees aren't exactly the smartest cookies on the planet.. but if the model is trying to get prints done that are of 'her'.
Do you not think that even Walmart employees would be able to realize it is 'ok' for her to print them out as they are of course of 'her', or are they artistic enough you cannot tell?

What about the Sony / Fugi / Agfa , ectcetra self printing stations that are in everything from the local grocery store (ack!) to Kinkos and your local photo store that process them off the CD and print them out right there without the assistance of a 'blue vested employee'.

Christopher

[Phil V]

Do you not think that even Walmart employees would be able to realize it is 'ok' for her to print them out as they are of course of 'her', or are they artistic enough you cannot tell?


Christopher

Just because it's 'her' face, doesn't mean she has a right to any images of it!
Copyright belongs to the photographer, thats the whole point of the question.

[crsouser]

Just because it's 'her' face, doesn't mean she has a right to any images of it!
Copyright belongs to the photographer, thats the whole point of the question.

Very True..but I would still think there would be some right of the model as it is them.

Now I am seeking more details as to what rights the model has to the use of the images if they were the subject of them. I did some searches on Stanford's Fairuse (http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter12/12-b.html) site and "The Law and Photographers in Plain English" and couldn't find specifics there, as I would think there would be some automatic entitlement to the images.

For example, if a Music Artist signs a contract with Song-BMG or something. They are still allowed to make copies of their own music are long as they are not using them for commercial purposes and trying to circumvent their contract with Sony-BMG. I realize in the case of music, they are both the model and the artist,but I would think something similar would exist in the world of photography.

Another example, perhaps more directly related to photography. If you take a photo of someone. You sell it to a magazine, the person portrayed really likes it and scans it and posts it on their website giving proper reference to the source. They have the rights to do that correct?

So if the images you give the model have your name in the little white boarder or something.. does that change the need for a release or increase the models own degree of fair use of the image as its source if properly credited?

I write software and have done some historical writing and took classes on copyright and proper referencing, fair use etc as I find it a facinating topic. If anyone can find a legal reference I would love to read it.

Christopher

[Lawngnome]

I've just included an insert with the cd that stipulates the maximum size that the model may print and the applicable uses. I sign the insert and then they have proof to show the people where they are getting their shots printed. Photographers have the copyright of the photo - not the subject of the photo.

[Jennings]

the PPA and other organizations have fought hard to protect photographers copyrights. if they didn't, people would just take their professionally done images to their little machines and print away. no photographer would ever make any money. any photographer who doesn't understand this must not make a living selling prints. why should i take hours of my day and sell it for 19 cents so that walmart can reap all the benefits. why should they make money off of my work?

[Mark_48]

But she is not the photographer, I am. She will have a cd with the pictures on it. Do they have a form attesting that I gave her the right to print? I guess I can go to walmart and find out. Thanks.
You can get the release forms at Walmart and fill it out in her name with you as the photographer. This will give her permission from you to have prints made. Not a big deal. I needed to do this once with a wedding client and it seemed to present no problems.
Walmart used to have the forms online, but I can't seem to locate them on their site.

[Ray Marrero]

Mark_48

Thanks I will look into it.

[crsouser]

You can get the release forms at Walmart and fill it out in her name with you as the photographer. This will give her permission from you to have prints made. Not a big deal. I needed to do this once with a wedding client and it seemed to present no problems.
Walmart used to have the forms online, but I can't seem to locate them on their site.

I searched Walmart's website and initially could not find it. If you login to their PhotoCenter you see the link to the form.

This direct link may work...
http://photo.walmart.com/photo/messages/51016-0_WM_copyright_EBF1D.pdf

Christopher

[Mark_48]

I searched Walmart's website and initially could not find it. If you login to their PhotoCenter you see the link to the form.

This direct link may work...
http://photo.walmart.com/photo/messages/51016-0_WM_copyright_EBF1D.pdf

Christopher
Thanks Chris,
It did work. Wonder why they made it so difficult to find.....

[TSEE]

I just second the release thing. I've had to use it personally and it works (even when you're the photographer LOL). Fill it out and give it to the model, she should have no problems printing her pictures with the release.

[PineCone]

Reading further on the exchanges makes me realize releases and copyrights have to be worded very clearly to avoid any misunderstanding and confusion as to corresponding rights and obligations of everyone concerned...

[Sylwia]

Walmart should have in their policy the copyright by author of the pix. Not ask the people who comes to do prints. Any way is that a pro place? I don’t think so. Imagine if any place will ask for release all the people who comes to do their prints? My grandma will have to do it also if she feels like photographing a dog?

[jporter12]

I ran into this problem the first (and only, so far) time I had pictures printed at Walmart. It was all because I had a Logo on them. If I had not had the logo, and copyright symbol on them, I believe all would've been well.

[Ray Marrero]

Walmart is no a pro place, but when I give a cd of images to someone who posed for me for free, I usually tell them to print it at Walmart, it's fast and cheap, and that's what they want.