Is that a real gun

[Ken Robertson]

It was...

[TJ]

How sad

[Reeforbust]

Is that kid drunk?:confused: :)

Also I'm wonderin how he had a real gun like that?

[sunbeast]

Don't know.....don't want to dispute you, but as a gun owner...something about the picture doesn't quite seem right. Plus, why would you set up for a picture in front of a child with a gun whose finger is on the trigger?

[mikehea28]

as a gun owener myself i say that gun is not real if you look at the area were the shells come out you can see there is no exit chamber for the shells so i say it is fake and who in there right mind would put a gun in a childs hand anyway.

[Kraig C]

LONE GUNMAN KILLS PHOTOGRAPHER, SUSPECT RELEASED TO PARENTS ON THEIR OWN COGNIZANCE.. PHOTOGRAPHER WAS LATER FOUND TO HAVE SUPPLIED THE FIREARM TO THE INFANT IN AN ACT OF GROSS NEGLECT <CASE DISMISSED>

[Ken Robertson]

This was taken in LAOS in a village along the Meekong - I think there are plenty this region.
I will try to p[ost a closeup of the gun so you can confirm if it is real or not.
As to why I took the picture - spur of the moment - turned roud sighted and snapped

Sorry about the quality ( no tools at my office) Gus says COLT Automatic Cal IBRE95 ( I think)

Hope it is fake

[Dante King]

Many might disagree with this, but you know the story about opinions. I think that as we have deemed that it is not PC to play with toy guns or basically any weapon OR even to point fingers in a shooting manner, we have taken away a natural mehtod for kids to vent hostilities. As a society, there needs to be a release for this behavior. Play is one method that these energies were released. Not so today.

Guns dont kill people. People kill people. The unrefutable facts are that when the rights to bear arms are taken form a population, only the bad elment have them. Crime goes up. Its a fact. Case in point is Australia and how their crime boomed when guns were banned. Its all about teaching gun safety and their proper use and care. We would like to think that the police will be to us in time to help in a serious conflict, but again sadly time has shown that this is rarely the case.

My rant, take it for what its worth. I like the picture. I think it speaks an incredible story for an area that has been under turmoil for generations.

[ctymom]

I really hope that's not real because it's not only a scary thought but very sad if so. As far as a photo.... it's just doesnt seem appropriate to say "great shot." :oops:

Pamela

[Desertraptor]

I think you were pretty safe since the child looks cross eyed in the shot.

[RebelMom5]

WOW !!!

[condyk]

I think it speaks an incredible story for an area that has been under turmoil for generations.

Well anyone who's looked at the history of that region will understand that the turmoil was imposed on a peaceful country as the US forces sought to cut off supply routes ... the logic is a a bit like dropping 2 tons of bombs on each person in Texas when really we where at war with Mexico. Close enough! Also, for the last 20 years growth has been impressive, so they seem to be doing pretty well despite the many challenges.

An American gun we note ...I guess it was left behind from the war, but at least the kid can still vent his hostilities there: thank goodness for freedom Dante. Good a kid can still pick up a gun in Laos, whether real or a toy, even if your own kids are now prevented from doing it.

Strange, when you've travelled as much as I have you start to notice that hostile children (and adults) are easily found almost anywhere in the so called developed world but only rarely encountered in so many other countries. Must be because we prevent our kids using guns eh?

I think the US forces also left behind a few cluster bomblets in peaceful Laos, tho' clearly the 1,000+ employees still working within the Lao National Unexploded Ordnance Programme have managed to find a few of them over the last 30+ years, so we currently only have between 50-100 individuals a year being maimed and killed ... most of them children. Not sure if this is history, documentary, fact, politics ... or just shameful :rolleyes:

PS US crime rates are falling. Anyone can check FBI crime statistics and draw their own conclusions. There is an assertion here about Aussie crime figures. There is a very good deconstruction of this nonesense here: http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp and it's always good to check out such urban myths ;-)

[ayotnoms]

This is what my kid used to do when he really, really, really wanted ice cream.

[Dante King]

PS US crime rates are falling. Anyone can check FBI crime statistics and draw their own conclusions.


Yes they are, but we have not banned guns. Makes my point. Not trying to defend the US and its involvement in a horrible time. However, as a student of history we would be remiss to discount the local history and its turmoil brought long before any evolvement of colonial or foreign nation state powers.

[SuzyView]

Thanks for "lightening" things up, Steve. LOL

I have never been to a country where anarchy was everywhere and people had to defend themselves to survive. I won't judge, but I do think the photo is sad and all so real.

SuzyView

[digicamlab]

Thats not real look there is no trigger to pull

http://feeds.feedburner.com/Digicamlab.gif (http://digicamlab.com/)

[Bruce Hamilton]

Real or not... Someone that age holding a weapon is disturbing. :(

[Maureen Souza]

This is what my kid used to do when he really, really, really wanted ice cream.


:D :D :D Thanks for the first chuckle of my day.

[Desertraptor]

Where's teh world heading when a child so young can get hold of a gun.

[shakin360]

Interesting pic. I like it.

I'd be more worried about these lil SOBs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1446003.stm



...Images erased...

[ayotnoms]

:D :D :D Thanks for the first chuckle of my day.

It's the mathematician in me:
Tragedy + Time = Humor

Truthfully, my spirits were brought low by viewing this photo.:confused:

[ejhunt]

1) Relax, it's a fake gun. It's all one piece of plastic, no seams.

2) That baby has no concept of what a "gun" is. To him, it's a shiny toy.

3) You can't apply recent cultural standards (ie guns are bad, mm'kay?) to places where they don't apply...for all we know, it's fine and proper to give a toy gun to a baby in his culture. Heck, as sad as I personally find it, a lot of people in America would cheer when seeing this image. The "Start 'em young! He's got the right to bear arms and lots of 'em" crowd has a big following.

I'm not a social scientist, but I'm pretty sure comparing 2 cultural views is apples and oranges.

BTW, if a photographer can evoke such passion with his/her work, you've done a great job. Kudos.

[SuzyView]

I agree with your last comment, Edward.

SuzyView

[Choderboy]

I'm surprised at the reaction to this pic.
Plenty of pics on this forum showing soldiers operating weapons (only reason can be to attempt to kill people) seem to often get light hearted responses.
(Won't even start on Hollywood / TV gun prevelance)

I think it is a great pic. It is not obvious to the viewer that this gun is real or not.

I'd only have a problem if it had a flippant remark or title.

[Carzee]

That boy knows how to clean his piece!

I can just see him practicing - pulling it down and cleaning it in the dark on his cot every night..

[Carzee]

---------looks over the homicidal boy bomber cult pix-------
POTN could do with a photojourno section. And PJ is political in the main. It makes it hard for the mods. If these were posted in "Urban Life" section, would they be appropriate? If I got some Falon Gong chinese embassy protest pix would they be appropriate?

[Titus213]

Many might disagree with this, but you know the story about opinions. I think that as we have deemed that it is not PC to play with toy guns or basically any weapon OR even to point fingers in a shooting manner, we have taken away a natural mehtod for kids to vent hostilities. As a society, there needs to be a release for this behavior. Play is one method that these energies were released. Not so today.

Guns dont kill people. People kill people. The unrefutable facts are that when the rights to bear arms are taken form a population, only the bad elment have them. Crime goes up. Its a fact. Case in point is Australia and how their crime boomed when guns were banned. Its all about teaching gun safety and their proper use and care. We would like to think that the police will be to us in time to help in a serious conflict, but again sadly time has shown that this is rarely the case.

My rant, take it for what its worth. I like the picture. I think it speaks an incredible story for an area that has been under turmoil for generations.

I am really surprised at your rant. Pleasantly surprised. Right on Dante! Our grandsons got Ruger Bearcats before they were 6 months old.....

And as to the picture - good shot!

The only thing I would find disturbing is that the gun owner allowed the gun to be played with. If it's a toy, no big deal. To him it's just that, a toy.

[Carzee]

... We would like to think that the police will be to us in time to help in a serious conflict, but again sadly time has shown that this is rarely the case. .

Ahem. Very hot topic you touched on. New Orleans. When the thin blue line is called out to a civil natural disaster, and some Police go off-duty to protect their own families...

Here's the hard question. What would happen in your local big city when the blue line is stretched to breaking point? Would someone in your house need to stay up all night on watch?

[not in a happy mood - car was broken into just last Sunday in daylight - 3rd time in 18mths but this time we did get it dusted for prints! The SIO used a Nikon FSLR and a macro lens with a Metz 45 for light.]

[Carzee]

(When I say the station wagon was broken into, picture me using the vacuum cleaner to suck up glass from ALL around the inside of the car - 2hrs worth).

[MEXICAN GIRL]

I have to disagree with you even for posting it. We know those things happens in our world. I think you would have a better shot with the kid himself, he got a great expression. I wonder what make you to post a picture like this one? Do you have kids?

[shakin360]

I wonder what make you to post a picture like this one? Do you have kids?

Think you're over-reacting a tad. It is a good shot. It tells a story, where if it was just a kid. It would be just that...another random kid.

[MEXICAN GIRL]

1) Relax, it's a fake gun. It's all one piece of plastic, no seams.

2) That baby has no concept of what a "gun" is. To him, it's a shiny toy.

3) You can't apply recent cultural standards (ie guns are bad, mm'kay?) to places where they don't apply...for all we know, it's fine and proper to give a toy gun to a baby in his culture. Heck, as sad as I personally find it, a lot of people in America would cheer when seeing this image. The "Start 'em young! He's got the right to bear arms and lots of 'em" crowd has a big following.

I'm not a social scientist, but I'm pretty sure comparing 2 cultural views is apples and oranges.

BTW, if a photographer can evoke such passion with his/her work, you've done a great job. Kudos.



You`re right, you`re not social scientist.

[MEXICAN GIRL]

Think you're over-reacting a tad. It is a good shot. It tells a story, where if it was just a kid. It would be just that...another random kid.

The picture without a gun has history. Looking at the sad expression of the kid makes me wonder where he is at? Has he being well care ? I think without the gun it would it be a great picture for a National Geographic, with it; just a picture from a cheap magazine.:rolleyes:

[Ken Robertson]

Is this one more palatable?

I was as shocked as you all were but does that mean that we should bury our heads in the sand with such issues???

[ejhunt]

You`re right, you`re not social scientist.

Glad we agree. Though I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.

[Ken Robertson]

Does this pic cammand the same interest?

[ejhunt]

---------looks over the homicidal boy bomber cult pix-------
POTN could do with a photojourno section. And PJ is political in the main. It makes it hard for the mods. If these were posted in "Urban Life" section, would they be appropriate? If I got some Falon Gong chinese embassy protest pix would they be appropriate?

I agree 100% on the need for a separate PJ section. It would have to be "Enter at your own risk" I would think,as proper PJ photos inspire great emotions. Perhaps even a 1 reply/hour cool off period.

[HJMinard]

Well anyone who's looked at the history of that region will understand that the turmoil was imposed on a peaceful country as the US forces sought to cut off supply routes ... the logic is a a bit like dropping 2 tons of bombs on each person in Texas when really we where at war with Mexico. Close enough!

That "peaceful" country was controlled by, and a haven for, the communist North Vietnamese forces. It wasn't simply a "supply route". That "peaceful" country allowed (or was incapable of preventing) the free movement of the NVA. (The NVA often used the border as a hiding place for hit and run tactics.)

An American gun we note ...I guess it was left behind from the war, but at least the kid can still vent his hostilities there: thank goodness for freedom Dante. Good a kid can still pick up a gun in Laos, whether real or a toy, even if your own kids are now prevented from doing it.

American gun? Maybe. Looks like a toy or a disabled (something behind the trigger preventing its use?) firearm to me. Does that make it okay for a child this age? That's for the parents to decide (but I agree he's too young). I (and all of my friends) played with many a toy gun when we were children, and none of us were led to violence.

What about this image gives you the impression that this child is venting any hostilities? I don't think children this young are capable of hostility (unless you count a crying tantrum). I think you're trying awfully hard to blame this whole image and situation on the U.S. The hostility appears to be all yours.

Strange, when you've travelled as much as I have you start to notice that hostile children (and adults) are easily found almost anywhere in the so called developed world but only rarely encountered in so many other countries. Must be because we prevent our kids using guns eh?

This is complete hogwash. Ever paid any attention to things that have been going on in Africa? Most of these nations can hardly be described as developed, but they have hostility aplenty. Lacking guns, they just hack each other to death with machetes. I imagine you'll find a way to blame the U.S., however. Unfortunately, evil occurs everywhere you find humans - developed country or third world.

PS US crime rates are falling. Anyone can check FBI crime statistics and draw their own conclusions.

There are many factors involved, but one fact is that many states (including Michigan) have liberalized concealed weapons licensing. Crime rates have fallen in conjunction with those new regulations. A coincidence perhaps ... I agree that we must all draw our own conclusions.

[dispatchermike21]

Well anyone who's looked at the history of that region will understand that the turmoil was imposed on a peaceful country as the US forces sought to cut off supply routes ... the logic is a a bit like dropping 2 tons of bombs on each person in Texas when really we where at war with Mexico. Close enough! Also, for the last 20 years growth has been impressive, so they seem to be doing pretty well despite the many challenges.

An American gun we note ...I guess it was left behind from the war, but at least the kid can still vent his hostilities there: thank goodness for freedom Dante. Good a kid can still pick up a gun in Laos, whether real or a toy, even if your own kids are now prevented from doing it.

Strange, when you've travelled as much as I have you start to notice that hostile children (and adults) are easily found almost anywhere in the so called developed world but only rarely encountered in so many other countries. Must be because we prevent our kids using guns eh?

I think the US forces also left behind a few cluster bomblets in peaceful Laos, tho' clearly the 1,000+ employees still working within the Lao National Unexploded Ordnance Programme have managed to find a few of them over the last 30+ years, so we currently only have between 50-100 individuals a year being maimed and killed ... most of them children. Not sure if this is history, documentary, fact, politics ... or just shameful :rolleyes:

PS US crime rates are falling. Anyone can check FBI crime statistics and draw their own conclusions. There is an assertion here about Aussie crime figures. There is a very good deconstruction of this nonesense here: http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp and it's always good to check out such urban myths ;-)


A peaceful country? Hmmm history revision. The picture it's self is not very good but it's subject matter is.

[Jon]

OK everyone. Let's remember the forum rules. Discussion of the photo is expected. Discussion, no matter how civilized (and it has been, so far) of small 'p' political issues, even those spurred by the photo, isn't. Please stay on topic. We are watching

[sismis]

It was...

Great marketing job for the photo and for stirring up the thread.

The gun is absolutely not real.

I wonder what the effect of the claim of the gun being real had on the thread?

[scorpiojo]

The picture speaks for itself. It is a story left to be interpreted by each persons perspective. Thought provoking shot.

[marcusg6@bigpond.net.au]

u should sent that pic to the united nations...its a great political statement

[Master-9]

POTN could do with a photojourno section.

I agree, itv would be a nice edition to a great website
:D

[Bruce Hamilton]

That baby has no concept of what a "gun" is. To him, it's a shiny toy.

Which is what makes it disturbing... A real one would be a little heavier, but still a shiny toy.

[Dante King]

I think disturbing makes it a nice capture. Pulls up emotions in us all. Bravo for posting it.

[Curtis N]

1) It's a toy, but he seems to know how to hold it. Makes me think he's seen people using real pistols, which is the sad part.
2) Photojournalistically, it could be used to make a statement. Both the NRA and the anit-gun types could probably find a way to use it to further their respective causes.
3) Photographically, it's flawed. Missed focus and caught the bamboo in front of him, so the eyes aren't sharp. Which means that National Geographic would probably print it, if they could find a way to use it that contributes to whatever slanted story they were writing.

Still a pretty darn good shot considering it was a quick grab, and a very compelling image. Thanks to Ken for sharing!

[Ken Robertson]

Do much input and controversy - I can hardly believe it.

Thanks to all (well most) of you.

The photo was posted with the best intentions. It is untouched - maybe I can do something about sharpening etc.

[Sam]

Don't let this get you down. Look at all the feedback you have gotten with this picture. You did what a lot of us try to do. You got a response :)

Me, I don't really care for the image much. The story it tells on the other hand is pretty interesting.

[EDIT] I do like a lot of your other work.

[Ken Robertson]

Thanks solinger

I really wish I knew why I posted this image. I suppose it was the shock I got when I was confronted with this in a pretty remote area.

[michael88]

It does not matter why you posted the image. Everyone should be thankful that they do not live in a third world nation were images like this would be the norm. It does not matter if you are pro or anti gun, most of know that when a child can get a hold of a gun, only bad things can happen.

[Sam]

You didn't set the scene up, it was there and you recorded it.

[Ken Robertson]

correct

[Andy_T]

It does not matter why you posted the image. Everyone should be thankful that they do not live in a third world nation were images like this would be the norm.

All I can contribute here is that I am sure that in Taiwan (the place my wife comes from, and a very developed country to that) nobody would see much offence in this ... people tend to be a bit more relaxed about such matters in Asia.

To that little boy, this 1$ toy (which nobody who knows the first thing about guns would actually mistake for a real gun) is just a shiny toy, maybe belonging to his 5 year old brother. If people do not display shock at seeing him handling it, he will not find it extremely interesting, either.

Of course, if he realizes that it elicits a shock response (like drawing a swastika on his clothes for a 12 year old) from older folks, he might try to use that to his advantage. Might be more of an issue in Europe or the US.

When I was 6 years old, I certainly used a toy gun to play 'cowboys and red indians' or 'cops and robbers' with my friends. I have not turned into a murderous villain in the 30 years since that, so it obviously had no overly bad effects on my psychic composition.


My 2 year old immediately knew how to use a (brightly coloured, dinosaur-shaped) water pistol when the older kids (3-7 y old) in the neighbourhood had their wet fights in hot August. He was totally happy that they allowed him to come along with them, and I did not see any particular reason to forbid him, either.

Best regards,
Andy

[michael88]

I would hope that most people have enough sense not to let a young child handle a real firearm.

[Maureen Souza]

I would hope that most people have enough sense not to let a young child handle a real firearm.

There are a lot of people who do not have enough sense to feed or treat their children properly, be responsible for themselves, stay out of trouble or help someone in need.
This is a kid playing with a toy. Nothing else.
I have a photo of my then 3 year old son dressed as a cowboy and holding a play gun. He is 26 now and a nice young man. I had the sense not to make an issue over a toy gun and to teach him the consequences of what a real gun could do in the hands of the wrong person.

[michael88]

I don't think anyone is believe's this is a real gun. I just think bad things are going to happen when a child can get ahold of a real gun.

[Maureen Souza]

I don't think anyone is believe's this is a real gun. I just think bad things are going to happen when a child can get ahold of a real gun.

That is true in any society. Unfortunately, it happens everywhere.

[sunbeast]

My initial posting was really in response to the title, "is that a real gun". I had questions as to whether the gun was real or not, but didn't question the authenticity of the photo itself. My experience and background tells me that the photo itself, and circumstances behind same, are all to real. And, I agree with Maureen. It has nothing to do with Third World, developed country versus under developed, this scene plays out every day, all over the world. And I agree, it is sad.

And while disturbing, I don't have a problem with Ken posting the picture simply because it is thought provoking.

[Nikolas]

Many might disagree with this, Its a fact. Case in point is Australia and how their crime boomed when guns were banned.

I have read carp in my time and your uneducated summation of crime in Australia beggars belief.
Can you show us the facts?
Proof?
Stats?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rol leyes:

[neil_r]

A sad picture but the gun is a fake/toy. Unfortunatly a lot of people from a lot of countries have taken real guns to his country over the decades.

N

[JMAS]

I don't think anyone is believe's this is a real gun. I just think bad things are going to happen when a child can get ahold of a real gun.

Exactly. It is the possibility that this child may see one gun one day and use it as he uses the toy what strikes me as more terrible in this image.

I usually don't get into this kind of discussion, but in this case I'll open an excepcion.

The photography in question may not be technically perfect, but certainly has the merit of being strong in a photojournalistic way,
and IMHO the OP did well in posting the photo as we would post a macro or landscape attempt. It is by trying and getting feedback that we get better.

And I would love to see a Photojournalism Forum here, even though I would probably not participate. I bet Mills would though. His kind of photography (firemen is action) is all photojournalistic and also very well executed.
Many who have seen the strong images of the brazilian photographer Sebastião Salgado, will probably see it is a wonderful kind of photography, and a very difficult one to do with technical accuracy, yet, it is possible to do. He uses a Leica, though. :rolleyes:
Certainly the photojournalistic photos can get strong reactions, but then, that's what they were made for. As long as we respect each other.

Kudos to Ken for making and posting this photo which shows a reality that should concern all of us and also to the remaining members in this thread to have kept this conversation civilized.

[neil_r]

I have read carp in my time

I know this is a serious debate but that is a funny typo, so fish write on this subject?

Sorry but it made me smile :o

N

[PhotosGuy]

Where's teh world heading when a child so young can get hold of a gun. Redneck teething ring? :D
"Discussion of the photo is expected." ... and it's a good picture when it can provoke such a varied emotional reaction! Ken pushed more than the cams button here! http://photo.klein-jensen.dk/smilies/rotfl.gif

[MEXICAN GIRL]

Glad we agree. Though I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.


I didn`t mean to be rude with you, I had mix emotions when I saw the picture, I apologize. But I have a different opinion since coming from a place (Latin America) where a lot of kids will do anything( killing in this case) just to eat.

[Reeforbust]

Interesting pic. I like it.

I'd be more worried about these lil SOBs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1446003.stm



...Images erased...


I call for an emergency meeting to figure out how to bomb this school and get rid of these terrorists.....!:evil:

MAN.....I can't believe that link!!! Is it me, or is that link a little crazy???

[Nikolas]

I know this is a serious debate but that is a funny typo, so fish write on this subject?

Sorry but it made me smile :o

N

Was a deliberate typo:)

Something fishy with this whole thread and that picture.
cheers.

[colliewalker1]

as a gun owener myself i say that gun is not real if you look at the area were the shells come out you can see there is no exit chamber for the shells so i say it is fake and who in there right mind would put a gun in a childs hand anyway.

I have never handled or seen a real gun but it seems to me that although there is an ' exit chamber' for spent cartridges it looks too incapable of opening to be real.

[colliewalker1]

The unrefutable facts are that when the rights to bear arms are taken form a population, only the bad elment have them. Crime goes up. .

If 'bearing arms' became compulsory would crime just disappear?:rolleyes:

[zacker]

ya know what? it is scarey, if it was loaded he could have killed you but... i grew up playing with guns..all fake mind you but army, cops, bank robbers, we played em all. now as an adult, i dont have a gun never did, dont need a gun, dont want a gun... I dont know, i dont think i have any justifiable reason to own one. but, if it came down to it.. i think id be able to use one if need be.
-zacker-

[adam*]

Scary prospect, I've seen kids in Laos playing with massive meat cleavers / machetes- weird to see! I've also spoken to many Laos men and women during my time in S.E.Asia and have done charity work in Cambodia (have also been to a landmine orphanage) and seen the terrible effects caused by the Vietnam war. Of course the earlier colonial actions led to such a war but I wouldn't place too much emphasis on earlier history in the mess (of course the countries have developed, but not to the extent that we would LIKE to think). Sorry like to rabbit as I've just had a history exam at uni and I'm still in 'argument, analysis' mode hehe!

[defordphoto]

Nice bokeh there Ken. What lens did you use?

[Ballen Photo]

I've got to agree with Jim, The bokeh is really good. :D
Same question; Which lens?
-Bruce

[Ballen Photo]

You`re right, you`re not social scientist.Now you have piqued my curiousity. What are the requirements to become a social scientist, and does it pay well? ;)
-Bruce

[CyberDyneSystems]

The photo itsel;f is amazing to me..

It strikes such a sharp nerve,.. induces an almost systemic response..
The sheer innocence of that tiny mind.. based not just on age but also on environment,. on what the child does not get to take for granted that we do...

Well done.

[defordphoto]

I agree CDS. An okay photo is just okay. You look once and move on. A good photo can be exciting. You look for a minute or two. A great, outstanding photo is one with the WOW-factor. One that reaches inside you, sits you down and makes you think. You can view these photos time and time and time again.

I'd like to see this one with a nice, well done B&W conversion. This is a photo you'd see in Life, Time or Newsweek magazine.

I like it.

[Ballen Photo]

This is a photo you'd see in Life, Time or Newsweek magazine. Now that you mention it, it could well be. :cool:
-Bruce

[Titus213]

I agree CDS. An okay photo is just okay. You look once and move on. A good photo can be exciting. You look for a minute or two. A great, outstanding photo is one with the WOW-factor. One that reaches inside you, sits you down and makes you think. You can view these photos time and time and time again.

I'd like to see this one with a nice, well done B&W conversion. This is a photo you'd see in Life, Time or Newsweek magazine.

I like it.

Interesting comments. I agree in part. Photos can grab your attention by pushing your buttons. This photo pushes some narrow range of buttons in folks. It is being taken in a social/political sense by many. There are also photos that just grab the mind and heart on a much different level, say awe inspiring beauty, or heart wrenching loss of hope. This image isn't that way with me. It didn't really evoke a social/political response in me either, perhaps because I was raised with guns and continue to enjoy target shooting as a hobby. For me it's just a cute child playing.

I will say that I recognized the image as one that was going to generate lots of comments. And it did, so in that respect it's probably a good photo.

[Titus213]

If 'bearing arms' became compulsory would crime just disappear?:rolleyes:

Eventually, pretty much. Problem is the process is too bloody for society today, which can be either sad or good depending on where you stand (or sit) on the issue.:lol:

[Ken Robertson]

Brokeh - the lens was a Canon 70-200 L IS 2.8 - I LOVEEE IT!

[MEXICAN GIRL]

Now you have piqued my curiousity. What are the requirements to become a social scientist, and does it pay well? ;)
-Bruce

No, It`s not well paid, but you have to study a lot and travel a lot;).
there is not special requirement to become one, it`s helpfull to know diferent languages, be good with numbers and statistics.

[MEXICAN GIRL]

Eventually, pretty much. Problem is the process is too bloody for society today, which can be either sad or good depending on where you stand (or sit) on the issue.:lol:

I agree

[defordphoto]

Brokeh - the lens was a Canon 70-200 L IS 2.8 - I LOVEEE IT!

Ahhhh....My favorite lens in my bag right now. That's silky smooth...Very nice work.

[Bumper]

Being a cop I have to say its fake. The extractor looks like its molded to the frame and the slid doesn't look real. Also the flare pattern at the end of the barrel shouldn't be there. My guess is a lighter. As for the photo it captures a side that most of us block out. This type of thing doesn't only happen outside the US. It's right here in most urban cities.

[Ken Robertson]

Folks ,

Can you suggest where else I can post this photograph?

I appreciate the responses, political, photographic and emotional ..

[John Trogdon]

Ken,

If you watch news from the States, you may have heard of an incident here in Florida, where a 15 yr. old took a gun to school, and ended up being shot by a SWAT team member, because his "soft-air" pellet gun looked authentic. The troubled boy knew the concept of "suicide by cop" and took advantage of the idea on school grounds with over 1100 students around him. He did later die.

I don't have an opinion of your photo, but I'm a little alarmed at your excitement over the controversy this shot has created.

Perhaps for me, it's just bad timing, but the incident in Florida happened at my daughter's old middle school, not far from our house.

I fail to see the "wow" that others have seen in this shot. It's a shot of a small kid playing with a gun. Pointed in the direction of your camera, or in the direction of a member of law enforcement, it matters not if it's real or if it's a toy. It is rather sad, either way.

I'm glad that you are happy with the number of replies. I would prefer however, that your excitement be driven more from pride in your work, than from your ability to stir up controversy. I know mine would. :confused:

[Rafromak]

Toy gun. A real gun, specially with a full magazine would be too heavy for the kid to pose for the picture.

[webejamn]

i think as long as you didnt set up that picture its a great picture, the pistol is oviosuly not real, i had a 10mm very simmular to that and it would be way to heavy for a (guess) 10~12 month child to hold out like that among the other items mentioned in this thread, however the one thing that i didnt read, may have been in here but ididnt see it, just a few days ago there was an 8 year old child shot for having a fake pistol, now the 8 year old was most defentaly under diffrent circumstances but none the less,

the real culprate here is the the one who let the child hold the gun...
but yes i think its a great picture...
i just saw that it was in here and not 8years old but 8th grade

[Rob612]

Guns dont kill people. People kill people. The unrefutable facts are that when the rights to bear arms are taken form a population, only the bad elment have them. Crime goes up. Its a fact. Case in point is Australia and how their crime boomed when guns were banned. Its all about teaching gun safety and their proper use and care. We would like to think that the police will be to us in time to help in a serious conflict, but again sadly time has shown that this is rarely the case.

I'll second that in full. Guns do not think, act and behave. They are just tools. You can use anything to kill somebody (i.e. a baseball bat or an heavy ashtray) but that does not means that the thing itself is bad or good. Things do not have a soul and the ability of take any initiative.

It's the people that's behind the trigger that can be good or bad. That can kill or not.

Cesare Beccaria, an Italian philosopher, wrote alredy around 1500 something like this (I am translating on memory, so its not a real quote but you'll get the sense) "Stupid is the government that disarms the honests, since the only result will be that the dishonest will be armed anyway. A goverment that disarmes the law abiding citizen is trying to superseed them".

This was happening about 500 years ago. Very actual :)

[webejamn]

i have allways thought of it like this,
if guns kill people then the same logic sais that pencils misspell words

[cargo123]

With a son the same age as this child, I am really terrified what the future has for him, if he plays with toy guns. As a child myself, we played cops and robbers all the time having fun. Times are much different.

[Rob612]

I have read carp in my time and your uneducated summation of crime in Australia beggars belief.
Can you show us the facts?
Proof?
Stats?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rol leyes:


I am not going to talk about Australia because I have no idea of the situation. What I know - and probably our UK friends here can help on the matter - is that since in England they had a new law against citizen possessing arms - I believe in 1997, the official New Scotland Yard stats (published on their website, It was more than a year ago when a looked for that and my memory begins to fade away) reported an increase in violent crimes. I can't say for sure if that happened bacause of the law about firearms or other reasons (it happened here also and our gun laws aren't changed, but ours have always been VERY strict, unfortunately).

I can redo the research, but maybe everyone interested can do their homeworks on their own, just to make sure that nobody bised the resuts.

[JMAS]

i have allways thought of it like this,
if guns kill people then the same logic sais that pencils misspell words

so you're saying that CDS should be blamed and not his keyboard? hmm...

...but if he didn't have a keyboard, we wouldn't be able to have fun with his misspells...:p (or mine:rolleyes: )

Ken,
Again, great photo indeed. It is one that I'm sure many will remember!

About submiting the photo in other places, you could have a look at the photo magazines editorial data. Many times there's information about submiting photos to be published in an amateur page.
And I'm not sure if you can enter it here, but it is meant for amateur photojournalism...
http://bop.nppa.org/2006/web_sites/rules/
But you have this one also: http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/


Just for further reference to the posters interested in this matter from the viewpoint of the photographer and ethics, I found the National Press Photographers Association (NPPA) code of ethics:
http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2004/07/nppa_adopts_new_ethics_code.html

also a good article from Ken Irby:
http://poynteronline.org/content/content_view.asp?id=10769&sid=29

The American photojournalism site:
http://www.americanphotojournalist.com/

[PEACHMAN]

I'm a gun owner , have grown up with guns, have an FFL and would know in a second that is not real...have probably 25 guns and never in my life has it occured to me in a moment of anger to pick up a gun .....Take a little boy who has never been allowed to play with toy guns to a play area that has a toy gun among a million other toys and see what he picks up...or a stick will find its way to resemble a gun... Hey moderators I thought the rules were explicite here about turning threads into controversial political events..!!

[defordphoto]

Hey moderators I thought the rules were explicite here about turning threads into controversial political events..!!

We have ALL been watching this one since it was first posted. In this case we collectively decided to monitor it to see where it would go. It has been fairly low key. We have attempted several times to get the thread on track to discuss the photo and NOT the politics of it, but no one got the hint. That's as disappointing as some of you allege this child's future is.

So with that, let's move on.