recurring flash problems - D60 -

[kcpopps]

I have had consistent exposure problems with our D60 since we got it. It seems to only do this when we are using our Canon 380EX flash on the camera. We do lots of studio shots with a Novatron kit and sync cord and get perfect exposures every time, all day long. But put the flash on top of the camera on location and start roaming.... and you can count on it - we get 2-3 or 4 good shots followed by a terribly underexposed shot (and of course, always at very inopportune times).

I am trying to determine the cause of this. It has to be some kind of communication problem with the camera/flash - I think. We change batteries in the flash unit like crazy so I am sure the power is not getting weak.

I was thinking it was only happening in the AUTO mode because of a communication problem. But last weekend we did a wedding and set the camera to manual and it still happened. In fact it was worse when it happened because the pics were even blacker (more ubderexposed) than when on auto.

We had a video camera at this last wedding where I could see my wife shooting the photos. It appeared that the flash always fired, even on the underexposed shots. One thing that was especially odd though - there was one shot when the father of the bride kissed the bride as he gave her away. My wife caught the kiss at the perfect moment of contact - (it was black but I was able to bring up levels in photoshop to see the frame) - ON THE VIDEO, it appears that the flash fires almost a second BEFORE the shutter opened! I can see the flash go off before the fathers lips make contact on the brides cheek, where the shutter snapped the frame. Is this possible? I am pretty sure it was our flash and not coming from someone else in the audience.

Any thoughts or advice appreciated. This is driving me nuts.

I guess my main question is, if I buy a Canon 550 will the problem go away? I don't really want to spend the money on a new flash if it is not going to correct the problem.

[picnic]

kcpopps wrote:
I have had consistent exposure problems with our D60 since we got it. It seems to only do this when we are using our Canon 380EX flash on the camera.


The 3780EX is not supported by ETTL on the D60, so this may be part of the problem.

I guess my main question is, if I buy a Canon 550 will the problem go away? I don't really want to spend the money on a new flash if it is not going to correct the problem.

Using ETTL will have a bit of learning curve (but then you use strobes, so it shouldn't be a problem). There is lots of online info about it. I use a D60 and D30 presently and have an STE2, 420EX and 550EX--use the 2 EX flashes on stands with umbrellas and/or use one of the flashes on a flash bracket--and occasionally just one on the hot foot. I shoot primarily 'available light' for personal work so don't use a flash much off stands though.

It really is essential that you understand that using ETTL in Av mode 'may' result in long shutter times--the camera exposes for the background and the flash exposes for the subject--resulting in lovely 'non-flashy' looking images. I generally shoot in manual settings but use ETTL for the flash--not manual.

You might try the 420EX--it doesn't have the ability to act as a master for a master/slave situation, isn't as strong, but is smaller, a lot less expensive--and if you are using this more casually, you may like it better. All the ETTL 'stuff' is the same as with 550EX.

Diane

[Webster]

I am not suggesting that this is your problem, but what you describe happens to me fairly often with my D60 and 380EX, and every time it is the result of not waiting for the flash to recharge. The D60 is very happy to trip the shutter even if there is no charge at all in the flash. The solution for me has been to whack myself in the head to reset the wetware, then remember to wait for the flash to charge.

Another thing I have seen with this flash/camera combination is the situation where every flash shot is seriously underexposed. This has always been resolved by removing the flash and the camera battery, then replacing them. I don't know if pulling the camera battery out and putting it back in makes any difference (I do suspect that it's just bad contact between the camera and the flash), but each time this has happened I've been in a bit of a hurry and didn't want to spend time carefully troubleshooting.

[picnic]

If I'm not mistaken, the 380EX does not function as ETTL flash with D30/60. This may contribute to problem.

Diane

[kcpopps]

picnic wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the 380EX does not function as ETTL flash with D30/60. This may contribute to problem.

Diane

I am not sure if it does or not - but found this quote on Steve's DigiCams (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/d60_pg2.html) website that says it does do ETTL: "If you need more flash power the EOS D60 functions in full E-TTL with the Canon Speedlite 550EX or the 220EX, 380EX or 420EX."

Thanks for your replies. I'm still searching for more info on the subject.

[picnic]

Yes, found it in the manual--functions with any EX series speedlite, so that's not it apparently.

[picnic]

However, I reread the first post. ETTL reads from the center focus point--IF--that point is aimed at white, for instance (wedding pics??), the you will get a quite underexposed photo unless you understand how it works. There is a very good post on dprview from last year by Michael Thomas Mitchell that may help. I suspect this is the problem as opposed to any power problem. Many have been frustrated with ETTL--if you are using manual settings on the camera, the flash remains in ETTL--thus it will function off that center point, as I stated. It doesn't function like a thyristor flash.

Here's a good link for exposure problems in ETTL
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3689463
and another of Michael's excellent tips for ETTL
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3012619

and the good tute on it
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

Hope this is helpful because ETTL is just very different from regular flash photography with other cameras/flashes.

Diane

[kontula]

I am also using D60 for all of my jobs. I have been using it about an 1,5 years and think it´s a perfect (almost) camera until yesterday... Damn!

I have had this 550 flash unit but have not used it much. Yesterday I was shooting some people on a disco/club. I used this combination on Tv set to 1/15 (400asa) because it was quite dark as it tend to be in clubs.

I thought that I don´t have to do anything, just point and shoot as I have done with EOS 1n with 540 for several years. Not, every picture was dark. I mean that the flash amount was 2-3 apertures wrong and underexposed!!!

I switched to P and also M and it was still underexposed.

WHATTA ****!? I was so mad and pissed off. I realized that this combination of D60 and 550 does not work as it should be.

I don´t know what to do. Hope somebody knows and/or some Canon advisers could post something to this thread...

Happy triggering!

Rami

[picnic]

Rami, read the above links I made. If you haven't used a 550EX before, it really is different than working with other flash units.

[LA277]

I have the D-60 and the 550. I have tons of problems in studio because the canon flashes talk in ETTL and my studio equipment does not. Getting the 550 will not solve your problems, only make things worse. I joined this form today in hopes of finding some answers on this problem can has with it's flashes!

[picnic]

No, it pretty much won't work with studio flashes as far as I know. I use a total ETTL system because I needed very portable wireless setup and use an STE2, 420EX (had it or I would have bought another 550EX) and 550EX. I use them on stands with umbrellas for interior setting shots for furniture manufacturers in showrooms.

However, what I understood is that the poster didn't want to use the 550 with his studio equipment. BTW--others on the dpreview forum seem to like the Metz54 MZ3 flash with the D60--ETTL AND auto thyristor. There are threads about this on dpreview.

[kontula]

Thanks Diane. I´ll read them. Still, I am very confused about the automatique it uses. I can´t understand how the 550 with D60 thinks...

LA277: Isn´t it obvious that ETTL does not work when you use other units on manual? You can set 550 to manual also. No problems. I have done it many times.

Rami