10D w/ EF28-105 3.5-4.5 II USM? - Soft?

[peppets]

Is anyone out there using this lens with their 10D? I just got a 10D and some pics are very soft. (Some are totally fine -- mostly the outside shots in bright light, although it's inconsistent.) Posts here suggest that this is common in all but the L lenses -- is that right? What's the story?

Any hints for getting sharper images with this lens?

[brunz]

I have the original version of this lens and my film lab would always give me soft reports so I quit using it. It is an ok lens at f11 or smaller but suffers at bigger f stops....not very sharp glass in my opinion unless I have a dud and you do too.

[John57]

I haven't used this lens with a 10D but have changed most of the 'standard' Canon lenses I did have to three 'L' lenses after getting loads of 'soft' pictures from the normal lenses.

Since buying the 'L' lenses I am now very happy with the results - much sharper pictures. The 'L' lenses do appear to give a different quality of image on a 10D.... it is just unfortunate that they have an entirely different price to the standard stuff, especially in the UK!

[rdenney]

john57 wrote:
I haven't used this lens with a 10D but have changed most of the 'standard' Canon lenses I did have to three 'L' lenses after getting loads of 'soft' pictures from the normal lenses.

Since buying the 'L' lenses I am now very happy with the results - much sharper pictures. The 'L' lenses do appear to give a different quality of image on a 10D.... it is just unfortunate that they have an entirely different price to the standard stuff, especially in the UK!

The problem is, of course, the immdiate appearance of an image we can enlarge ten times on the small display. It's like looking at a 20x30 or some such huge print. Every flaw becomes visible. Our old images that we saw only on 4x6 prints we now see blown up to actual pixels on our computer monitor, too, and that is a much tougher standard.

The 10D is also exposing my lack of care in positioning the autofocus sensor, my risky use of large apertures, manual focus errors, and a range of others problems in my technique. Last weekend, I took a few images hand-held with my new 70-200L at wide apertures and medium shutter speeds, when I realized I like what I was doing. I fetched the monopod, stopped down to f/8 or f/11, and used slower shutter speeds (but still okay for the monopod). Sharpness improved significantly. Being able to tailor the ISO on the fly is an incredible advantage, too.

Rick "thinking the 10D is going to sell a lot of L glass" Denney

[surfsessn]

I've just gotten a 10d. I've also have been using, and still use a D60. I did my first job with the 10d a couple days ago, location family session. Using the same lenses I've been using with the D60, the D10 images seems WAY SOFTER.. nearly out of focus!!

Confusion mode. I've got a small wedding tomorrow. I've bumped the custom settings to plus one sharpen. We'll see how that works too. I'm probably going to set my focus are fixed to the "center" reading so I can be bit more sure of exactly where this thing is going to actually be focusing.

Bottom line..... sometimes newer, ain't always better.

BTW... I also used a D30 for a year prior to getting the d60. Even with limited megapixels, that darn thing is a work horse and I have several 20x24 portraits (printed with an Epson 7500) I shot with it on display in my office. They look great.... I just hope I can get this weird soft focus..out of focus crap with the 10d figured out.
I would think the non L lenses should work fine... they've worked great for me with both the D60 and D30... I have to keep telling myself that these "less expensive" lenses are only using their "sweet spot" glass due to the 1.6 magnifier and smaller, centered image area.

[PaulB]

surfsessn wrote:
I've just gotten a 10d. I've also have been using, and still use a D60. I did my first job with the 10d a couple days ago, location family session. Using the same lenses I've been using with the D60, the D10 images seems WAY SOFTER.. nearly out of focus!!

'Soft' digital images are not out of focus, nearly or otherwise.

Soft can be low contrast, most point and shoot digicams have high contrast images sharpened in camera.
This is what the happy snapper expects.
If you are aiming for the best quality from your images you have to remember that once any manipulation of the image is done by the camera IT CANNOT BE UNDONE. Therefore Canon give you a host of options to fine tune the camera and image to get the result you want.

Also the lens you are using may be soft because of low resolution and/or contrast. Which is the reason for using the best lenses you can afford.
Of course the lighting may be diffused, which will give a softer image than one taken in hard/harsh lighting.

The list of variables is endless and it is not always the camera...............

[UK_Terry]

have a look at this topic

Taken today with 10D & 28 - 135IS

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13267

[runic]

PaulB wrote:
'Soft' digital images are not out of focus, nearly or otherwise.

Soft can be low contrast, most point and shoot digicams have high contrast images sharpened in camera.
This is what the happy snapper expects.

Yes, but you seem to have missed Surfsessn's point. Surfsessn wasn't comparing a point & shoot with the 10D, but rather the D60 with the 10D, using the *same* lenses.

If both cameras have the same size sensor, the same crop factor and the same glass in front of them, then surely you wouldn't expect a significant difference in image sharpness? So why does the D60 seem to produce sharper photos than the 10D?

Martin

[PaulB]

Sorry if we have got crossed up here.
But don't compare the 10D sensor directly with the D60.
For a start it is my understanding that Canon now make the 10D CMOS - bought the D60 ones in - and have tightened the specification and QC on it.
Also the 10D uses the DIGIC processor - the D60 didn't.
So the two cameras do not use exactly the same imaging sensor and therefore will not produce identical results.

[jimsloy]

I've got this exact same lens and YES - I get soft pictures. Shoot in RAW and bump up the sharpen in the camera to +2. You can always change it in FVU afterwards. ALL outdoor pics are sharp, and "most" indoor pics are sharp, but plenty are soft. But not so soft that a little unsharpen mask in PS7 can't handle. It just adds to the workflow. Eventually I will invest in IS or L glass - but so far, this lens does the trick for me. Depends on what are shooting. If you are selling prints, def get a diff lens!

[scottbergerphoto]

I use all L (16-35/2.8, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8) glass and I thought my converted raw images were all "soft" and out of focus. I use BreezeBrowser and noticed that the preview derived from the same shots were much sharper. So I bumped up the USM to 200, 2, 0 and the images were tack sharp. As mentioned above, images that come out of the camera sharp have been manipulated by the camera algorithms. Shooting Raw gives you the artistic choice of how sharp or how soft the final image is.

[justme_dc]

IMHO that lens is really soft at the wide end and sharpens up a bit as you zoom. It is a stunner at 105mm! It'll produce an image that comes fairly close in sharpness to my 135mm prime. I used the 28-105 for a number of years and wouldn't trust it at all below f8. I have owned two copies of this lens and both exibited the same softness wide open at the largest f-stops. In all probablity the fault lies in the lens. It just isn't up to the task of putting a clear image on the 10D's sensor. When working correctly, the 10D really shows the limitations of the lens that is attached to it. If you shoot within the limits of this lens you can get some great shots with it.

Good luck to you.