Basketball tomorrwow night ?

[LMP]

Hi,

I'm most likely going to be shooting my 1st Basketball game tomorrow night and I'm not sure if this is a simple request or not......... tips, any at all. Basic Do's & Dont's :)

I've not been to the venue yet so cant tell wha light I'll have to work with I'm afraid, I plan to sit under the basket in an 'NBA Styleee' :) I'm hoping most of the juicy stuff will occur there...it's been ages since I saw a game played, at least 10+ years:eek:

So fire away with the tips please chaps :)

[gmen]

:lol: Good luck Marc.

From the Q&A thread:

"At the dubious venues I am generally found at, my primary spot is behind the baseline with the 85mm, shooting from the corner of the court.

Ideally, I'd like to shoot with a much longer focal length but the lighting usually doesn't allow this. The 300mm is great down the length of the court and from up in the stands. Also a 70-200mm is nice as an all-round option from behind the baseline or on the sideline.

If you're working from behind the baseline, then bear in mind the positions that the officials take up to avoid 'backside' shots...

Also many hoops' players are right-handed, so it's a good idea to work from correct side of the basket to capture their faces as they go up to the bucket.

Of course, there is also the wide angle view to be had as well under the basket..."

This is a flying visit... but there are more basketball threads in the sports forum than anything else! I think you'll find plenty of what to do (and perhaps what not to do) examples here, there and everywhere!

A few other quick thoughts...

- Don't let yourself get trodden on by the officials as they will run round behind the basket as the play shifts around... also they can move very fast down the sidelines as well.
- There are often good (sometimes better) shots to be had on the team benches than on the court.
- The players will criss-cross the court, running in front of the play and fooling the AF system... so be careful to wait for your moment. Set your focus tracking sensitivity to slow or moderately slow...

I'm sure more hoops folk will be along shortly to provide further insight ;)

---- Gavin

[LMP]

Cheers Gavin, I have to be honest and say I'm a bit nervous about what to expect. It's going to be an alien environment to me. Football is all well and good as I have played it and understand the rules and what may happen in certain situations, basketball is another game altoghether...pun intended :)

I'm getting there as early as poss so I can reccy the place, I'm keen not to get in anyones way at the 1st attempt and upset the applecart!

I will make sure I change the AF settings when I sort the relevent gear out tonight.

I found a pic of the gym at the venue which deosn't look too dingy.
http://www.mklions.com/images/cms/media6946-500-293.jpg

[Otta]

Good Luck Marc.

Funny enough I am shooting my first Basket ball and netball this saturday . The lighting in is grim but I'll will give it a go using 70-200 2.8 which is my fastest lens , I would like have gone with what seems to be everybody's favourite len 85 1.8 but sadly Iam saving my pennies for a 300 2.8 so I can't afford it all .

Once again good luck , looking forward to seeing your shots , I would like to put mine up but I have an agreement not to put any on the web .

Is that Stoke Mandeville ?
Roy

Ps . Do you have a full time job only I wonder if you would be interested in shooting a Tournament if one comes up . I own a Mitsubishi dye sub printer which is capable of printing on site . Let me know your thoughts.

[LMP]

Hi Roy,

The venue is Bletchley leisure center, the MK Lions home patch before they move to the new arena next season.

Saving for a 300 2.8....arnt we all , fraid I have to sort out car servicing and a holiday before I make any more plans towards one.

Sent you a PM re the tourney;)

[n.e.photo]

The only other advice that I can offer that hasn't been given yet is don't get motor-drive happy with your shutter trying to capture the shot. The first basketball game that I did I made that mistake and ended up with a few hundred shots and only a few keepers. This last game that I posted and you commented on I shot a lot differently, waiting for key moments and making sure I got the faces to go along with the action, way better shots. If you can get a bit higher in the stands and not get in anyones way that is a good place to shoot from as well, thats where I got the dunk photos. Basketball is not easy, a lot of arms flying around :) Just take your time though and wait for the right moments, its basketball, you'll see them coming even if you don't know the sport.

[LMP]

Thanks for the advice n.e.

I'm wondering if I should use a custom WB ? If so how best to set it...I've read on another board that some just use a white envelope (any white object will do yes ?) to set it.

A custom WB is something I've not really done before, I'm assuming those that set it would take the 'white object', place a few feet in front of them, take a pic of it under given light and go from there ? The thread I've read mentions taking several shots of the envelope using a slow SS to try to cater for the 'cycling' of the lights...then picking the shot which has the least hue.

Does this make sense ? I'm not sure I'll spot the hue change from one shot to the next.....im waffling arnt i, I'll shut up !

[Mount Airy Ed]

This from YENORAM, which I found helpful....

"I agree with those who say forget the flash. I shoot basketball in high school gyms using a 50mm 1.4 and get great results at ISO 1600. I shoot in Tv mode at 1/400 and let the aperture fall where it may. I do a custom WB before the game starts, AI Servo, centre focus point, continous shooting and I'm good to go. I can't imagine firing off hundreds of flashes during a game - annoying for the players, the fans and everyone else not to mention hard on your flash."

I tried the above advice with my new Canon 350D. Here are two I took with my 85mm f/1.8 These are my first photo posts, hopefully I am following all guidelines, etc...

[dandan]

yeah, custom white ballance it. a nice pringles top has always worked for me as a cheapy solution. also, (ive never run into this problem, but some others have) some places use *vapor lights* that change color as they dischange (i think). that will be a pain for your white balance, if they do use those lights i say just use auto whitebal and see if the camera can handle it.

[n.e.photo]

AWB has never worked for me when it came to arena/gym lights, and in every kind of light that I have shot under I have been able to custom WB. I use a small stack of white printer paper cut down and stapled together to fit inside my bag. The stack (4 - 5 sheets) is so that its completely solid white and not transparent in any way. Just take a shot with AWB, then custom WB and compare the two, and take if from there. Hope it works out for you.

[liza]

My turn.
- Use a fast prime lens, like the 85mm f/1.8.
-Shoot with the camera on M.
-ISO 1600
-Aperture 1 to 2 stops from wide open.
-Shutter on at least 1/400 with 1/500 or faster being optimal.
-Shoot in RAW and process with RawShooter Essentials.
-Set camera on continuous shooting and AI Servo with center point focusing enabled.
-Position yourself on the baseline either at the corner or where the 3-point line intersects. Shoot from a crouching position.

That's all I can think of for now. I just got home from our last LIC tournament game, and I'm tired.

[LMP]

Thanks for all the advice so far, I've made plenty of notes. I'll be leaving shortly and will post pics over the weekend sometime if they're any good.

In the meantime I found another pic of the venue, showing the lighting..

http://www.mklions.com/images/cms/media7695-300-449.jpg

[liza]

Nice! The white ceiling will make a difference. I shot in a gym just like this last night.

[LMP]

OK...I'm back and I think I did reasonably well for a 1st time.

Before I add a pic or two I have to say what an excellent evening I had, all day I had been wondering what to expect, what the venue was like , how proffesional it was ...blah , blah . No need to think or worry , it was a top night. The staff were great and helpfull, my contact was a top guy and on top of it all it was a cracking game. I would have been pleased to be there without the cameras. You get the idea...I had fun :D

I thought the light was pretty good too, think I had the iso bumped to 800 (ish) hence a bit of grain, I've also put them through a PS action which has sharpened a little so that prolly hasnt done the noise any favours either. I also left the WB on auto..this time;)

Newcastle Eagles guard TJ Walker making a drive down court
http://www.valesports.co.uk/lions_eagles/images/8A5C4721_web.jpg

MK Lions Center Shawn Jamison making the jump count

http://www.valesports.co.uk/lions_eagles/images/8A5C4851_web.jpg

I've knocked up a small gallery with PS, will add more tomorrow sometime..

http://www.valesports.co.uk/lions_eagles/


Let me have it guys !

[liza]

Very impressive work! The ones in the gallery are simply fantastic. What lens did you use?

[LMP]

Very impressive work! The ones in the gallery are simply fantastic. What lens did you use?

:o Thank you Lisa, #'s 1,2,3 & 8 were with the 70-200. The others aroud the basket were with the 85 1.8.

I've adjusted the levels a little but to me (at least on my screen) they look a bit dark...maybe yellow cast also. How do you see them ?

[liza]

The first one on this thread looks dark on my monitor and the second a little bit overexposed. But the ones on the website look perfect. You've done a wonderful job with them.

[LMP]

Thanks again Lisa, I have just updated the gallery with about another 30 pics if you fancy taking a looksie ;)

http://www.valesports.co.uk/lions_eagles/images/8A5C4753_web.jpg

[Otta]

Hi Marc,

The second ones a cracker , That looks pretty bright in there ,I managed 250th f2.8 on my 70-200 @ 3200 . I really could have done with a wider fast lens for under the basket , with no viewing gallery and just 2 foot strip around the edge 70mm was abit tight. I have to admire what gavin does with this sport but like you this is my first time . Although I enjoyed it and will (have to ) do it again, I have a lot of shots with backs of heads even moving to the shooters left . I have only seen the 1st two but I am looking forward to looking at your link .

Roy

[LMP]

Cheers Roy, I probably used my 70-200 more than the 85 to be honest. My positioning was a bit limited as well, I was tucked in between the advertising boards so as you can see I was further back from the court than I would have liked ..hence why the basket shots are featuring alot of the rear of the backboard !

As you say it makes you appreciate how hard it is to get shots like Gavin does :)

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on some of the others in the gallery when you get time.

http://www.valesports.co.uk/lions_eagles/

BTW did you get that PM ?

[MJPhotos24]

Great post as I'll be shooting my 2nd b-ball game here coming up on Tuesday. For the first one I had on loan a Mark II from Canon but this time loaning a 20D from a friend. The first time I had kinda yellow photos w/ florescent lights. Just wondering, for the stack of paper idea, throw on the 70-200 in the gym (say center court) and set it to that? Heres a photo from the last game I did be it I will be in a different gym this time.

http://mikejanesphotography.exposuremanager.com/p/pavilion_boys_basketball_05-06/03-pavilion-bball-223janes16


Oh yea, Liza, that is a coaches stance, unless it was the game I was coaching last night, then the stance was 5 feet on the court yelling at the refs asking for a fair game with this face on :mad: They were so bad they didn't even "T" me up!

[Croasdail]

hey Marc - you did good. Not the most photogenic (sp? what ever) of venues, but it is what it is. If there were some challenges, it wouldn't be fun. Good timing on the shots - ball on hand or just leaving the hand on shots... well done. It is also good to see the level of play taking off around the world... Locally, they just announced were getting a pro soccer team next year. It has me thinking of ways to get some work over there already. Keep it up!

[gmen]

Nice work Marc. When I shot hoops for the first time I didn't have a clue what I was doing :lol: ...in fact, things haven't improved much since then. It's one of the hardest sports to get a 'guaranteed' good shot. I'd have been well chuffed with results like that as a newbie hoops tog.

The lighting looks pretty good in some of the frames - but not in all of them... was it patchy? and how were you metering?

I've only ever picked the 70-200mm up once when shooting hoops under ambient lighting... so it must have been pretty bright if you've used that for most of these shots.

For me 8A5C5022_web is the strongest image. Excellent.

The difficulty with hoops is trying not to crop off the players' extremities... toes, fingers etc... I'm still struggling with that. I'm not too keen on shooting too loose and then having to crop, so it's a case of working incredibly hard on the framing all the time.

I'd also suggest shooting in RAW next time. The 1D writes RAW files very quickly and they convert quickly as well. Just shoot a grey card as your first frame and, assuming that you're not dealing with vapour lamps, then your WB will be sorted. As you know, I'm not a huge fan of RAW shooting, but on the original 1D there's no great disadvantage even if you're on a deadline.

Overall, I'd suggest aiming for a greater consistency in your exposures and the rest will come together with practice.

When's the next shoot? I might have to join you as I could enjoy some good lighting :lol:

---- Gavin

[LMP]

Hi Gavin,

The lighting looks pretty good in some of the frames - but not in all of them... was it patchy? and how were you metering?


I think the lighting was pretty even all round, the patchyness was down to more I think. I bottled it and used the camera in Av mode. The darker shots are likely to be the ones I shot with the 70-200 maybe.

The difficulty with hoops is trying not to crop off the players' extremities... toes, fingers etc... I'm still struggling with that. I'm not too keen on shooting too loose and then having to crop, so it's a case of working incredibly hard on the framing all the time.


Yea it's very hard, one second and you have a guy filling the frame nicely, a second later he's gone and your left witha mass of flailing arms:rolleyes:

I'd also suggest shooting in RAW next time. The 1D writes RAW files very quickly and they convert quickly as well. Just shoot a grey card as your first frame and, assuming that you're not dealing with vapour lamps, then your WB will be sorted. As you know, I'm not a huge fan of RAW shooting, but on the original 1D there's no great disadvantage even if you're on a deadline.

Overall, I'd suggest aiming for a greater consistency in your exposures and the rest will come together with practice.


Call me dense but the whole WB thing confuses me, not so much on how it works but more on the correct procedure for setting. The object I set it from ..I just place it in front of me and take a shot, or do I need to place it in the area of best light ? I had a go with a custom WB at the football Saturday afternoon which involved taking a shot of the white advertising board next to me and setting from that. It seemed good whilst the light lasted but I switched back to auto WB when it got darker.

I'll dabble with the RAW next time out, even my laptop should be able to handle a 4MB file without having a heart attack ;)

I agree with you on my exposures, it's one of my major problems that I've noticed by going back through my shots over the past months, very inconsistent. If you can recommend some good reading on the subject I'd like to read it ?

When's the next shoot? I might have to join you as I could enjoy some good lighting

Next game is this Friday IIRC, I recon you could work wonders in that gym :D

[LMP]

hey Marc - you did good. Not the most photogenic (sp? what ever) of venues, but it is what it is. If there were some challenges, it wouldn't be fun. Good timing on the shots - ball on hand or just leaving the hand on shots... well done. It is also good to see the level of play taking off around the world... Locally, they just announced were getting a pro soccer team next year. It has me thinking of ways to get some work over there already. Keep it up!

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your comments. I've done a good bit of reading prior to the game both here and on fredmiranda.com. The timing was one thing that stood out from reading the posts..ie ball close to the hand as you have mentioned :)

I dont think BB will ever be as big in the uk as across the water, there was a pretty good crowd out for this game and they were full of beans so it made for a great atmos!

[gmen]

I'd imagine there was a pretty good atmosphere down in Brighton for the appearance of Dennis Rodman at the weekend :lol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/basketball/4611798.stm

---- Gavin