Road rage...

[pxl8]

Hi,

I came across this link this morning, a fight between a motorist and cyclist caught by a passing photographer.

http://www.citynoise.org/article/2770

The site itself looks pretty interesting too.

[BottomBracket]

Wow, thanks for the interesting link. It's not often you see pictures where a guy beats up a cyclist, and a woman cyclist at that. What is the world coming to? As an avid cyclist in a big city, I understand the tension between some cyclists and some motorists. It can really get ugly.

[condyk]

I cycled for two weeks in London and then we sold the damn bikes. Like wishing for suicide. Motorists and bikers can be equally dumb and ignorant based on what I've seen. This is a real interesting tale if you read through some of the many posts. I don't like people who litter either!

[blue_max]

Not wanting to get into the bike versus car debate, because everybody has an opinion, but cyclists can be much more aggessive in their driving these days. You can get them deliberately occupying much more of the road than they need. If they tuck in, I am happy to give them a wide berth, but when they take a more central position in the road, I am almost forced into oncoming traffic to pass them.

On the other hand, I saw a bus driver beep his horn at a cyclist, who was just travelling down the road, quite correctly. She caught with him and had it out with him.

Certainly not as bad as the pictures though :(

I saw a set of traffic lights the other day, where someone had drawn a :) on the green light, a :confused: on the amber and a :( on the red. It was very amusing and lightened the mood no end. Maybe that's a solution to road rage!

Graham

[Tom W]

Not wanting to get into the bike versus car debate, because everybody has an opinion, but cyclists can be much more aggessive in their driving these days. You can get them deliberately occupying much more of the road than they need. If they tuck in, I am happy to give them a wide berth, but when they take a more central position in the road, I am almost forced into oncoming traffic to pass them.

Graham

This pretty-much sums up what I've seen from some cyclists of late. Kind of a militant style that almost appears to deliberately provoke anger. Sometimes, when they spread out over the road a certain way, their formation resembles bowling pins. ;)

[pxl8]

You can get them deliberately occupying much more of the road than they need. If they tuck in, I am happy to give them a wide berth, but when they take a more central position in the road, I am almost forced into oncoming traffic to pass them.

The highway code offers the following:

139: Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should
[snip]
give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would a car when overtaking

and also

189: Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as draincovers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room.

Plenty of room seems the key point here. I guess that means waiting a bit longer to overtake if there's oncoming traffic...

I'm not, btw, a cyclist.

[Big_B]

In london it seems to be more about agressive commuters than anything else. I cycle to work in every day and I'll agree that many cyclists can be very agressive (jumping red lights always p*sses me off). That said, I've lost count of the times I've nearly gone into the side of people coming out (or turning into) juntions, who either haven't signalled or have seen me coming and just pulled out anyway.

[blue_max]

The highway code offers the following:

139: Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should
[snip]
give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would a car when overtaking

and also

189: Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as draincovers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room.

Plenty of room seems the key point here. I guess that means waiting a bit longer to overtake if there's oncoming traffic...

I'm not, btw, a cyclist.


I guess that in Somerset, there may be times when there is no oncoming traffic :lol:

In London at least, I would suggest that the Highway Code is a piece of fiction. That world has long since ceased to exist.

I heard a DJ complaining that he had been driving along and got stuck behind a broken down driver. He waited patiently for a minute or two and when it became obvious that he had broken down, used the bus lane to pass him. He was then pulled over by the police and told what he did was illegal. When pressed as to what he was meant to do, the reply was that he should have waited - even if it had taken two hours.

Check your highway code and see if that is in!

I clipped the end of a bus lane to go into clear road. There was no obstruction caused whatsoever. The fine £50. Now, I'm a reasonable person, but that is fining motorists off the road.

Anyway, I don't even want to have this debate. I wish we had a public transport alternative, but that is not ever going to happen.

I should become a cyclist and get knocked down - then I can have the highway code recited at my funeral.

Graham

[david lee]

This pretty-much sums up what I've seen from some cyclists of late. Kind of a militant style that almost appears to deliberately provoke anger. Sometimes, when they spread out over the road a certain way, their formation resembles bowling pins. ;)


Tom
In the UK we are taught as motorcyclists to take the centre of the road for safety reasons. (The cyclists safety) We are told to command our space on the road. The moment you move over to the left (Or right in your case) the motorist behind sees that as a door being opened and will come up along side you.
If anything happends at that point where the motorist has to swerve to avoid oncoming danger, Where does he steer the car? Yep thats correct, right into the motorcyclist who let him pass.

Same goes for cyclists i imagine

[mrclark321]

A couple of weeks ago there was a women pushing a child in a stroller at a brisk walk on a 4 lane road. She was taking up the whole lane at 5:00 in the morning and it was pitch black out and snowing ( what an idiot!!) Forgot to mention there was a sidewalk

[blue_max]

Tom
In the UK we are taught as motorcyclists to take the centre of the road for safety reasons. (The cyclists safety) We are told to command our space on the road. The moment you move over to the left (Or right in your case) the motorist behind sees that as a door being opened and will come up along side you.
If anything happends at that point where the motorist has to swerve to avoid oncoming danger, Where does he steer the car? Yep thats correct, right into the motorcyclist who let him pass.

Same goes for cyclists i imagine


Do they teach motorcycle couriers to shoot down the centre of the road and nip in in front of you before the lights? There is such a gulf between what is being taught and the real world.

Graham

[pxl8]

I clipped the end of a bus lane to go into clear road. There was no obstruction caused whatsoever. The fine £50. Now, I'm a reasonable person, but that is fining motorists off the road.

Only the ones who continually break the law! :lol:

[Balliolman]

The accompanying thread comments are something else! I am glad POTN has nothing like it ...

[blue_max]

Only the ones who continually break the law! :lol:

It was just the once - that's all I could afford! :lol:

On a serious note, can anybody actually say they didn't break a single law EVERY TIME they drove a vehicle? Seriously?

Graham

[Tom W]

Tom
In the UK we are taught as motorcyclists to take the centre of the road for safety reasons. (The cyclists safety) We are told to command our space on the road. The moment you move over to the left (Or right in your case) the motorist behind sees that as a door being opened and will come up along side you.
If anything happends at that point where the motorist has to swerve to avoid oncoming danger, Where does he steer the car? Yep thats correct, right into the motorcyclist who let him pass.

Same goes for cyclists i imagine

Except that bicyclists, in most cases, cannot drive at the speeds that cars do, and can become a hindrance to travel. I recognize that it's a sensible precaution to "command the road" as you say at blind curves and places where it isn't safe to pass, but we seem to have these large packs of bicyclists now days, lumbering along at 20 mph in a 50 mph zone, oblivious to the long string of cars behind them.

This isn't always the case, of course, and I really don't want to sound like I'm painting all bicylists with a broad brush because I'm not. But there is a mindset among some that seems to take selfish pleasure at the expense of others, not for self-preservation.

Motorcycles are another issue - they can drive with traffic without impeding the flow and thus don't present much of a hazard to others around them.

EDIT: I have to add that we're probably looking at two completely different situations. I suspect that you're dealing with some heavy downtown city traffic. My biggest problem with cyclists isn't in heavy traffic (which is its own problem), but in more open roadways. We have plenty of curvy roads here at the edge of the Appalacian mountains which are quite popular with cyclists. But they're fairly friendly here - In Florida where I visit relatives quite often, there's the more militant genre of cyclist that I speak about. I've had an interesting encounter or two with some cyclists there.

[Tom W]

It was just the once - that's all I could afford! :lol:

On a serious note, can anybody actually say they didn't break a single law EVERY TIME they drove a vehicle? Seriously?

Graham

I make it a point to break at least on law every time I drive. :)

BUT, as a wise friend once told me, never break more than one law at a time.

[pxl8]

On a serious note, can anybody actually say they didn't break a single law EVERY TIME they drove a vehicle? Seriously?

Just as well we've got all those speed cameras then. :p

[Big_B]

Speed cameras?! Let's not go there.... please! :)

[Mick Emmett]

Just as well we've got all those speed cameras then. :p
Speeding is only one of the laws that can be broken when ever we get behind the wheel (or on a bike in my case), cameras don't know if you've been drinking; taking drugs; got an MOT test; got insurance; if the car is stolen or even if you have a valid driving licence. Nope! cameras are there for one thing only and that's to rake in money for the local councils and Police forces.

Sorry Big_B, had to do it!

[pxl8]

The simple truth is that if people didn't break the law then they wouldn't rake in the money. What makes me laugh is how people try to make out that the forces and councils cashing on the law breaking is somehow more wrong...

[Tom W]

The simple truth is that if people didn't break the law then they wouldn't rake in the money. What makes me laugh is how people try to make out that the forces and councils cashing on the law breaking is somehow more wrong...

As always, it depends very much on the silliness of the law. But in general, it's best to avoid breaking too many if possible.

[Mick Emmett]

Of course it's wrong PXL8, they should be taking measures to prevent offences and make the roads safer; instead they allow "hot spots" to continue so they have a steady influx of ready cash. Speed cameras are very rarely put up at accident black spots because most accidents don't usually happen at high speed, they usually put them on nice long stretches of urban roadway where they know your speed will slowly creep up with out you noticing it ('cos you're actually looking at the road; not your speedo).

[pxl8]

Of course the simple answer is that you should be keeping an eye on the speedo, especially when you've got a nice long stretch of road where you know (and you do know having made the point) your speed will slowly creep up.

If there was some revenue generating solution to prevent those other offences and deal with safety then it would happen tomorrow. The motivation in doing so would be exactly the same as that behind the speed cameras, money. So would that too be morally wrong?

Perhaps a comprimise? Instead of a fine anyone caught speeding gets so many hours community service with a local scheme for road safety...

[Tom W]

Of course the simple answer is that you should be keeping an eye on the speedo, especially when you've got a nice long stretch of road where you know (and you do know having made the point) your speed will slowly creep up.

If there was some revenue generating solution to prevent those other offences and deal with safety then it would happen tomorrow. The motivation in doing so would be exactly the same as that behind the speed cameras, money. So would that too be morally wrong?

I'm strongly in favor of the old Autobahn approach, at least on rural highways - no speed limits. It was once the law in many western US states prior to the 55 mph thing (which is past history for most of us, thankfully). Granted, that's not a good approach in urban traffic, even on the highway. :)

Perhaps a comprimise? Instead of a fine anyone caught speeding gets so many hours community service with a local scheme for road safety...

They do that here for those caught driving while intoxicated. In addition to their hefty fine, they get to road cleanup work wearing an orange vest that proclaims "I am a Drunk Driver". Unfortunately, from my old bartending days, I can say that many will wear the vest proudly as a badge of honor. Not exactly the "embarassing" effect that the authorities wanted, I'm afraid.

[Mick Emmett]

Unfortunately for me I still think I'm capable of making judgements for myself and that gets me in to trouble, if I'm travelling back from London at 3 a.m. on a virtually empty M1 I think why the hell am I only able to do 70mph? Like wise when I'm coming back up the A1 on a busy Friday afternoon why isn't the limit dropped to 50 mph, why do I risk a fine going through a 20 mph limit next to a school at 40 mph when it's 3.30 a.m. Nope some of the limits are just none sensicle.

[Mills]

Just curious. Is the person on the bike a woman? If so, that is another twist to the story.

[Skip Souza]

When I'm on my bike I tend to treat speed limits and no passing zones as advisory in nature only ;-) I know, I am a baaaad boy.

[blue_max]

I wonder how many accidents are caused by people slamming on the anchors because they have just spotted a speed camera and had a car stuffed up their exhaust?

So now we have the situation where everybody knows about them. We zoom along and brake for the cameras and speed off again. Sensible?

Graham

[pxl8]

Graham, any argument based on a desire to continue breaking the law really doesn't hold any water. The sensible thing would be to obey the speed limit at all times and then no one would complain about being fined off the road, having to slam on their brakes, or indeed the revenue the fines generate.

Of course speeding, like s/w piracy, isn't a proper crime...

[Homer]

The bike courier is a woman. It appears that the road rager also came after the photographer with a bat after the photographer followed him to his car and snapped away is license plate.

[dewmuw]

I must do about 30,000 miles a year. I see lots and lots of instances of road rage - mostly people giving the finger and yelling, but occassionally I've seen a few punch ups. But most seriously, one night my wife witnessed a road rage that started when a guy pulling out of a junction thought the oncoming guy was letting him go and they both had to slam on the anchors at the last minute. The guy pulling out put his hands up to apologise, but they guy in the oncoming car jumped out, grabbed the other guy and proceeded to beat the crud out of him. My wife had stopped and tried to help, two guys got out of the car and not only threatened my wife, but started to join in the beating.

The guy was hospitalised and only one person (my wife) out of the hundreds of passers-by attempted to help. She was the only witness willing to go to court to testify and we had to sit in the court waiting room with the accused friends and family.

It amazes me that little things like this can esculate into assault and jail time.

[StevenRaith]

Of course the simple answer is that you should be keeping an eye on the speedo, especially when you've got a nice long stretch of road where you know (and you do know having made the point) your speed will slowly creep up.


I'd rather be keeping an eye on the road and driving to the conditions, thanks.

A nail on a piece of wood hitting a tyre at 65mph has the same effect as a nail hitting a tyre at 80mph - but if you are watching the road at 80, you're a damned site more likely to avoid it than by keeping an eye on the speedo to keep yourself under 75*

[*no I'm not stupid, beleive it or not :) but most speedos overread a fair bit above 50 anyway, and most gatsos are clibrated to trigger at Limit+10%ish.]

There again the other side of the coin, is that you could find yourself a nice bit of twisty b-road and try to stick to the speed limit, everywhere.

After all, that must mean you are a sage, law abiding citizen, surely?

If I win euromillions lottery thingy, I'm sodding off to Bahrain or somewhere where they don't treat motorists like the ****s treated non-aryans. Traffic policing in the UK is a complete f[censored] joke, no existant in it's entirity and it gets right on my c[censored] man-boobs that people are allowed to have such a complete lack of respect for a one and a halfe tonne of metal, glass, and explosives capable of in excess of 100mph - lack of motorway lane discipline is a damned site more dangerous than everying doing 90mph on the motorways, I can tell you that now.

[GSH]

I'd rather be keeping an eye on the road and driving to the conditions, thanks.

.


Well said that man.

You can put as many Speed Cameras as you like outside schools or in town, i stick religiously to the limit there anyway for obvious reasons.

But DO tell me what exactly is the reason for parking a Camera van on a Motorway Overbridge when the road is not busy in any way?

I'll tell you. £££££££.

Motorways are the safest roads in the country and the vast majority of the network was designed for speeds well in excess of the current NSL, which i routinely ignore when safe to do so.
Do i have any points on my licence? Nope. Not a single point in 18 years of driving.

I've also driven a good few thousand miles on the continent and the roads there are a pleasure to use because they have sensible motorway limits. Mostly 80mph with the de-restricted sections of German Autobahn being as fast as you feel safe to go. I've driven at speeds in excess of 150mph there and i'm still in 1 piece.

But hey....Speed Kills :rolleyes:

[StevenRaith]

The big problem with the Autobhan [so I am reliably informed by the old man who has been there loads...] is when you are on a two lane derestricted section, hammering down at 130ish, and ahead a lorry doing 56.7 Mph decides to use his slipstream advantage on that lorry doing 55.3mph.

Causing you to cadence break [post locking up for 100ft...] until you slow up enough to avoid them.

I'm a big beleiver in teaching people responsibilty. People in cars these days don't take reponsibilty for thier actions, and as such, you get all sorts of lane discipline problems.

put a foot long metal spike in teh mddle of every steering wheel and you can bet your boots driving standards would be impeccable within..ooh...thritysix hours....

As a bonus it would also mean that the people Pxl8 support - the clockwatchers - would be the first ones to go as they would panic break when the car in front slows down because they weren't watching out for it, and were instead keeping an eye on the speedo to keep themselves under the magical [and completely [censored] arbritary] 70mph limit, and end up with a nasty hole through their sternum....:shock:

[Mick Emmett]

Causing you to cadence break

What's this "cadence" thing that's going to "break"? ;)

[GSH]

The big problem with the Autobhan [so I am reliably informed by the old man who has been there loads...] is when you are on a two lane derestricted section, hammering down at 130ish, and ahead a lorry doing 56.7 Mph decides to use his slipstream advantage on that lorry doing 55.3mph.

Causing you to cadence break [post locking up for 100ft...] until you slow up enough to avoid them.


It's all about hazard perception....

In that situation i'd expect one of the trucks to pull out and back off long before it actually happens, although i agree you do have to be a lot more careful on the 2 lane stretches (the majority) than the newer 3&4 lane stretches built after re-unification. Some of those sections are a joy to drive on.

Last June i did Habartov (Czech Rep) to Boulogne in around 10 hours excluding rest stops. It's About 850 miles.

It then took me another 5 and a half hours to do the 340 miles from Dover to home...

Driving over there is a pleasure. Over here it's a necessary evil unless i'm doing a track day, which is not as often as i'd like.