My table top studio SUCKS :(:(:(

[PIXI_666]

It's taken me ages to ge tmy table top studio up to scratch, so today i decided to actually take some photo's in there! And of course, like everything i try to do, it turns out to be a waste of time!

I have done just about all i can do on my camera, flicked through all my settings, changed them, ended up taking about 70 photo's in 5 different stints, and EVERY SINGLE ONE turns out crap, so crap in fact that i am not posting them to even show how crap they are...they are just TOO CRAP to post!!

So my problem is...
They always come out with a yellow tinge...actually i wouldn't even call it a tinge, id feel more easy saying its liek i put a damn yellow filter on my lens!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE!?!?

I really want to get a decent shot out of today, so i was hpoing to get some replies soonish so i can go back in there and not give up easily!

I have changed white balance, bracketing, ALL settings ,hell i even went to automatic settings because i was getting so desperate...

Is there a particular way i should be shooting, eg: f WHAT? (I was going through them ALL!!!!) ISO WHAT? I went through all those too...etc.etc

PLEASE help me....im so over it lol

Del

[FlipsidE]

Sounds like white balance issues to me. Do you have a way to set white balance before shooting?

[cdifoto]

Set your white balance to tungsten.

[PIXI_666]

Yeh i set my white balance to tungsten....

[PIXI_666]

i set my white balance to everything lol

[cdifoto]

Try shooting a grey card for a custom white balance setting. If everything has an orange coloration, it has to be an incorrect white balance. Shooting a grey card for reference then using that as your custom white balance image should take care of it.

You could alternately shoot in RAW where the white balance doesn't matter and you can select/change it in post processing...

Otherwise I don't know what to tell you. Maybe someone else can come along with some ideas.

[PIXI_666]

I have heard of that before...but i have no idea how to do that? Probably as simple as cooking 2 minute noodles...but the whole studio photography is very new to me...so im very amateur in the studio!

[cdifoto]

To use the grey card method (you can use it for RAW too), you go to a camera shop and buy a grey card. They're made to be about 18% grey. Neutral for the camera meter. You take a picture of the card filling the frame - under the lighting that you're going to use to shoot your subject. Then you go into your menu and choose custom white balance, and when it prompts you to select an image, you select the image of the grey card. The camera then sets the color balance of subsequent shots to what is correct. You can also shoot a grey card before you do a RAW shoot, then when you go back to set your color balance, select the grey card photo as your reference then copy & paste those settings to your other photos that were shot under the same conditions.

[FlipsidE]

To be honest, I had no idea what I was doing when setting white balance for inside use, either. Now, this thing is expensive, I understand, but it comes with a DVD that shows you how to not only use the target, but make adjustments in post processing to make the shots come out almost perfectly!

http://photovisionvideo.com/target.html

I belive the 14" one might be the smallest one that comes with the DVD. I got the 34" one, and IMO, worth EVERY SINGLE PENNY!

[cdifoto]

Wow that's expensive Brandt. I use a $5 grey card and it's more than adequate.

[FlipsidE]

Trust me, I know it's expensive. But, I find it to be great. We used the earlier version of this target that Charles had last year when I went to his studio workshop back in February. White balance was always spot on...dead on...perfect w/out question every single time. Since then, I just really haven't trusted anything else. I know it's all about personal preference, but you must remember, you're also paying for about a 40 minute educational video not only on how to use the Digital Calibration Target but also how to make slight changes in Post Processing (which can really make a huge difference in the final image...he uses Capture 1 in the video which has now sold me on Capture 1 also).

So, while I know it is very expensive, it comes with some great educational tools, too. I just sat and stared...attention completely captured by the video. And, in case anyone is wondering, no, I don't have any money invested in the company who makes these digital targets or the video...nor do I know or am I friends with Ed Pierce. I am just that impressed with this tool.

[PIXI_666]

Thanks for the advice guys....ill have to look into it, i dont have a grey card right now so im just gonna have to figure out a way to deal with it NOW...i spent the last hour locating my extra batteries and charger because my battery just went flat...seems like everything in the past week has just gone wrong for me...

How about.....i shoot my camera and claim it on insurance then burn my studio down...another insurance scam...maybe THEN i can say "$20 000 worth of equipment" and they will give me the best of everything?

[blue_max]

Surely the yellow tinge is to do with the light colour. Are you using some other room lighting as well? Does this happen with daylight - or are you in a room without a window?

If you shoot raw, you can select your own white balance and see if it helps/makes it worse. Putting anything mid-grey in there (remove before the actual shot) will help you take out a colour cast.

Maybe you have trawled through all this before, so sorry if I'm not up to speed.

Graham

[TeeJay]

Erm, I may be wrong, but I was always under the impression that to set "Custom White Balance" you should select "Custom WB" on the camera, shoot a WHITE card - which should cover the partial metering area in the viewfinder, select the image just taken of the white object, then Roberts your Mothers Brother! ;-)

[SkipD]

It's taken me ages to ge tmy table top studio up to scratch, so today i decided to actually take some photo's in there! And of course, like everything i try to do, it turns out to be a waste of time!Del - I don't see what type of lighting you are using. Knowing that is critical to problem solving. If you're using some sort of flourescent, for example, you will have a whole different set of problems from flash or incandescent.

Also - what is the surrounding area like? Wall and ceiling colors? Distance from the tabletop/lighting to the walls and ceiling? Etc. Maybe an overall photo of the studio area would help others in figuring out your problem.

[PIXI_666]

ok these are really embarrassing photos lol

http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/65/5/3/RL/65537436RL099857881

http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/65/5/3/RL/65537440RL781535203

First is with just my room lights on, second is with all my studio lights on

This is my first real time with it too so i haven't got any "other times" to judge it by unfortunately!

Thanks :)

[PIXI_666]

http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/65/5/3/RL/65537440RL781535203

[PIXI_666]

are these working for anyone?????????? or s it jsut me with big x's...everything is going wrong today :(

[JohnCollins]

Edit Deleted! Sorry if anyone got my first. The top product on Flipside's link was $239 and I went nuts. As I scrolled down they got smaller and cheaper, and I guess with the video it might be worthwhile. Get a small one.

Here's what I got, and it's about as expensive and 'over the top' a solution as I'd spend my money on, but I like it.

http://www.lastolite.com/ezybalance.php

About $30 at Adorama

[PIXI_666]

i am totally confused..................

[FlipsidE]

are these working for anyone?????????? or s it jsut me with big x's...everything is going wrong today :(Not seeing any of your pictures, no. I'm not sure why, though.

[PIXI_666]

http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/65/5/4/RL/65544167RL586609324.jpg With studio lights on

http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/65/5/4/RL/65544196RL520735532.jpg With just room light on (Very dull!)

i wasn't copying ALL of the URL accidentally!

[PIXI_666]

x-cuse the mess lol

[PIXI_666]

And this is a shot i just did, with about 8 minutes photoshopping...not exactly what i want, i wanna just take the photo and do 1 minute processing!

http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/65/5/4/RL/65545058RL181591392.jpg

[cdifoto]

I think those worklights are screwing up the balance. I may be wrong but I believe those worklights (yellow ones) have different color temperature than the little clip-on lights. Try it with just the clip on lights and set your white balance to tungsten or incandescent, assuming you don't have the daylight bulbs installed. If you have the daylight bulbs in those clip on lights, use the daylight setting.

[PIXI_666]

i want a floating white background too

[PIXI_666]

ok ill try that

[cdifoto]

Floating white backgrounds are pretty much impossible with a clear glass item. If you have your white background, then the glass has no substance. You'd see nothing but the colored stem.

Any product with a darker main color can be given a white background by overexposing the item by about a stop so the background is blown out, then go in photoshop or similiar and bring the contrast back.

IMO you did about right for that glass object except the harsh light coming from the right side, which I assume is the worklights.

[PIXI_666]

Hmm just makes the shots darker, because my 2 side clamp lamps have really ****ty bulbs in them, thats why i had the floodlight on, the lamps i got were too small, so only held small globes (15w ugh)

The other 2 (Behind and on top) are 100W which are great....i guess i need to change those 2 side lamps?

As for this grey shooting...im still confused...i might read up on it...

[thebrewer]

The card I use to white balance is a paint sample card from the hardware store. Behr brand #1852 White. Approx .5 inches by 3 inches. I picked up a few when the wife was picking colors to repaint the living room. Just look for the purest white.

Shoot the card filling the center of the image , go to custom WB on the menus, select the photo of the card, then select the custom wb in the wb settings.

White balacning the camera with a custom WB should make a world of difference.

Rich

Just saw your studio image, one question.... are color temps of the tungsten and qaurtz lamps the same? Potential problem if they are different? A custom wb will help, I suspect but you may get funky results with mixed color temp lighting.

[PIXI_666]

cdi-ink....thank you so much for that piece of advice about the glass...ill go try a solid subject and get back to you!!!!

[SkipD]

What I see is a mix of light types. Some appear to be incandescent (like household bulbs) and others (at least the shop lighting) quartz halogen. This is likely to give you a white balance that's hard to control as you change the lighting positions (and thus the ratio of one type of light to another). Your walls are also going to introduce some yellowish color into any light that reflects off them and back onto the tabletop.

My first suggestion would be to have all the light be from the same type of source (and definitely NOT flourescent). This would make it easier to correct for the white balance of the light.

A second suggestion would be to hang either white or black fabric on the nearby walls to control the reflections. White would let you reflect light - of the same color as the sources - back into the tabletop. Black (particularly something like a black velvet) would prevent the reflections from interfering with your setup, and might be the best choice.

Third, though this may not have much to do with the color of the light, the radically different light intensities from the different sources will likely be troublesome in doing the setups. You might try using clip-on halogen work lights to balance the floor-mounted work light.

In the end, once you have a manageable lighting setup, you will likely have to do custom white balance settings. Another way, though, is to shoot a known neutral (neutral gray or white) object in the scene for a test shot. Shoot all the shots in RAW. Then, when converting from RAW to .PSC or .TIF for processing, you can figure out what the color temperature correction is needed to get the gray/white object right and then apply that to all the rest of the shots.

Using the Photoshop CS2 RAW conversion tools, there is an eyedropper tool that I click on a white or gray object in the scene. I then transfer the white balance numbers to the rest of the series of shots and they all turn out right.

[cdifoto]

cdi-ink....thank you so much for that piece of advice about the glass...ill go try a solid subject and get back to you!!!!

No problem. You may want to get some 60 watt bulbs if those lamps can handle it. I can see where 15W wouldn't be enough! You could also move your tent more centered to get it closer to that left lamp, and get another lamp of the same kind with the same bulb for the right side.


As for the darker products, I usually use the overexposure cheating method, and I have a hotlight w/24" softbox on a boom stand that I can position around or above my subject as necessary. I set my WB on tungsten because it has a tungsten bulb and about 10 seconds worth of photoshop later I have my product photo.

The big softbox provides a broad and enough light source that I don't need any further lighting. I do this all over a product table that I shamelessly bought on eBay, which has a semi-transluscent white surface to let light through so as to not be reflective, and allow minimal shadowing.

If I have a product like your glass or something that's really light in color, I put down a blue or black or other dark sheet to give the product something to stand out against.

Here's an example of one I did. I posted it before in Marketplace when I put it up for sale. Pics like this work wonders.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/cdifoto/EF500-002b.jpg

[SkipD]

Another thought for simple lighting. Try getting some clip-on shop lights (the aluminum reflectors with a conventional socket) from Home Depot or wherever. Put the brightest bulbs that they will safely take (they will be marked for the max bulb size). Use several of those for lighting, and you will then have all the lighting at the same color temperature.

[PIXI_666]

OK Skip...good advice...ill take that on during the week, but i think im just about done for tonight lol...i have one more photo to post soon though...

[SkipD]

I forgot that even though it's 7:30 AM here, it is a bit different "down under".... :p

[cdifoto]

Yeah she's up in the wee hours of Wednesday morning down there.

[PIXI_666]

Thanks CDI, all great tips for me to use...

Unfortunately (i guess) i am an Aussie...
So your American language is kind of like a barrier for me, coz some things you have been saying i don't get LOL...and im putting it down to that...either that or it's just because i have info overload lol

It's all been great advice though so im really greatful :)

Im just frustrated right now because my computer is a piece of garbage and its slowing my whole processing down!

OK here's a shot i took just before, i used all the lights that i had (Including the floodlight) and i just used a slower shutter speed...i spent about a minute in photoshop....what do u guys think? Does it look tacky??

OK problem with internet ill post in a sec

[PIXI_666]

http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/65/5/5/RL/65556040RL496534612.jpg

[PIXI_666]

still not the effect i want really...so ill take on board the advice i just got...will all have to wait though until i go to the city because ym town sells NOTHING that i need, the globes were all they had for those smaller lamps.....i hate my town....it's so stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blue_max]

You seem to have a dirty sensor there!

Oh, and change the carpet*.

Graham





*It won't help the photography, but is giving me a headache :lol: :lol: :lol:

[cdifoto]

I'm not sure what language/words you don't understand but if you point them out I'll try to clarify what I said.

Your white balance is a little blue on the background but the apple is about right as far as I can tell. It has some shadowing on the left side but that's because your clip on light is weaker on that side.

Part of the reason your background looks the way it does is because it's wrinkled and the light is bouncing off of it in different directions. If you can smooth that out somehow you'd be a lot further ahead of the game. The table I use is a somewhat hard plastic with a curve in it. Looks like your background is fabric and bunched up.

I still think you need to get to the good town (lol) and get some light bulbs of the same wattage (preferable higher than what you have) and color temperature. It doesn't really matter what color temperature they are (it can be tungsten, daylight, whatever) as long as they're all the same because you can make a white balance correction to compensate for it.

[Bushman]

Good day!

Just a thought, have you tried any natural lighting. Is there a window you can use?

[sony23]

This i s what I did with just a white paper background and the 580 flash on a 20d.

Bruce

opps edit these were with the 1ds

http://www.inframe.co.uk/photos/lens2.jpg

http://www.inframe.co.uk/photos/apple.jpg

[swatcop169]

As Skip said gets some shop reflectors. I have two with two GE Reveal bulbs in mine. Here's my setup;
http://blackwater-studio.smugmug.com/photos/15513371-L.jpg

and the results;
http://blackwater-studio.smugmug.com/photos/15510951-L.jpg

http://blackwater-studio.smugmug.com/photos/17148024-L.jpg

[PIXI_666]

Oh that's what he meant? OK....i have never EVER seen them for sale around here....ill look into it and see what i can come up with, thanks!!

[swatcop169]

I got everything at walmart for about $20

[PIXI_666]

lol we don't have Walmart...

Walmart seems like it has EVERYTHING...i want one hahaha

[JohnCollins]

SWATCOP, those are excellent results! Thanks for backin up and showing us the setup. Nice!

John

[mjordan]

Pixi, a couple of additional things that I didn't see mentioned in the thread...

You say the lamps have small bulbs and don't give enough light out. This makes me think that you are trying to shoot at a high shutter speed and maybe also a high ISO (looks like noise in your test shots). Are you shooting with a tripod? If so, with static shots like this, you can keep your ISO at it's lowest, still set your fstop at the a point that gives you the depth of field you want (probably f16) and let the shutter speed fall where it will. You might get some movement from the ink in the water, but it shouldn't be too bad. This way you can use all 60 watt bulbs and still get a proper exposure.

Another thing, since you already have a white background, put a black object in the tent where the camera will see it but you can crop it out in Photoshop if you want.

Take your picture and open it at 100% in Photoshop. Select Levels. On the Levels pallet you will see 3 eye dropers. Select the right one (for highlights) and click on the whitest spot of your background. Then select the left one (shadows) and click on the black object in the picture. This should neutralize your colors and get you pretty close to good color balance. 5 seconds and it's done. This will work about 90% for quick adjustments. For the other 10% it takes a little more work, but still relatively easy if you have a black/white or black/gray/white object of known neutral colors.

Mike

[swatcop169]

SWATCOP, those are excellent results! Thanks for backin up and showing us the setup. Nice!

John

No problem. Glad I was able to show something that I thought was pretty good :)

[PIXI_666]

mjordan....i have been working with photoshop 7.0 for a couple of years now, JUST got photoshop CS2, and am gettin gused to the NEW things in it...and what you just suggested is new to me, so thankyou for that tip - really quite excited to use that now!!! (I havent had much time to play with the new program)

Yeah im using a tripod, and slower shutter speeds too, i dont think i have noise, i think liek someone else suggested, my sensor is really dirty, and so is my lens...they all need a good clean and format before this wedding for sure!

Anyway....im gonna print out some of these suggestions and try again tomorrow...its too late now and i am so tired from a HUGE day at work! (Doing nothing haha!)

Thanks guys :)

[JohnCollins]

You've got some great work on your photo site! Just checked it out.

John

[JMHPhotography]

I'm going to offer you some help in the gray card area. Pick up "The Photoshop CS2 book for Digital Photographers" which is a book written by Scott Kelby. it has a gray card in the back of the book and a chapter dedictated to how to use it. :)