FWIW: 30D, 3D, 1DS RS

[BTBeilke]

I just saw this on the FM board...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/354076

I think the title says it all for itself. I've come into information suggesting the following. Whether Canon will choose to release them all during Photokina remains unknown. However, the following is what I've found out so far.

30D: Digic 3, 10mpx

3D: Digic 3, looks similar to 5D on the outside, FF, priced between 5D and 1DS RS

1DS RS: Pellicle system, reminiscent of the 1N RS. 5fps on the full 18mpx, 8fps (on a crop maybe?), 18mpx, not built as well as the 1DS Mk2, Digic 3, priced somewhere in the $6,000+ range.

Italicized parts = not 100%

Here is a link (http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/EOS-1nRS/index.htm) to the film-equivalent of the upcoming 1DS RS. Go figure.

What is interesting about this piece of news is that if true, Canon has now a complete set of FF cameras, from 5D, to 3D and 1DS RS. This mimics their film series of EOS-5, EOS-3 and EOS-1 series. VERY VERY interesting. This could tempt a significant segment of film shooters to move to (more) affordable FF. The decision to retain a 30D/350XT pro-/consumer series will also bring in most of the moolah for Canon.

And before you start flaming me, my source has actually handled the 1DS RS himself. Just thought I'd share it with the larger community. Let me emphasize however, that this is not a prediction on whether Canon will be releasing them in this final form. I'm simply passing on some tidbits of information, nothing more. If it coincides with their eventual release, all the better.

I'll be editing this as I get more information.

Edited by data1ore on Feb 14, 2006 at 07:46 PM GMT

Edited by data1ore on Feb 14, 2006 at 07:48 PM GMT

Edited by data1ore on Feb 14, 2006 at 09:34 PM GMT

[Lord_Malone]

No 10mp 20D MKII or EOS 5Ds with 5 fps burst rate? ;)

Actually, what you've dug up makes a lot more sense.

[aliflack]

The 30D sounds about right - a modest improvement over the 20D

The 3D would be interesting - what would it have to look like in order to justify its position in the pecking order? Better build/quality than the 5d, not quite so good as the 1DS MII (unless of course one ignores this becuase the 1DS and 1D have been merged to form the 1DS-RS

And the 1DS-RS makes sense given the previous statements about looking to merge the two pro lines...

[Tom W]

The discussion over on FM is very interesting. The 1Ds RS in particular has sparked some great interest. And it could be a great thing. Some of the more interesting rumors to fill the internet.

[willg]

hm...anyone have any guesses as the price point for the 30d? $1500 maybe a little less?

[jacobsen1]

I highly doubt they will use the pelicular mirror again. It was nice but the light loss was not liked by many people... Maybe they have redeveloped it a bit, but why not use the 1Vhs 10fps mirror?

[Tom W]

I highly doubt they will use the pelicular mirror again. It was nice but the light loss was not liked by many people... Maybe they have redeveloped it a bit, but why not use the 1Vhs 10fps mirror?

You may be right, but do consider that digital is more adaptable to high-ISO operation.

Consider if the stationary mirror did a perfect 50/50 light split. You'd give up exactly 1 stop of light to the viewfinder and to the sensor. Also note that even today's partial mirrors pass about 40% of the light to the secondary mirror (and on to the AF sensors), sending only 60% to the viewfinder. So the viewfinder isn't going to be appreciably darker, and that can be compensated by reducing image magnification a little bit, maybe to .70X.

On the sensor side, if development allows a sensor that has 1 stop better noise performance, you can get equal results to today's DSLR cameras while eliminating mirror slap. Essentially, you lose a stop with the mirror, and gain one through the new sensor technology. The potential for higher frame rate is there if data throughput can be increased. And you won't disturb Tiger Woods' caddy. :)

[jacobsen1]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I like the pelicular idea. I had a 1Nrs and loved it, especially for action shots. It's also a good point about the whole 2/3 of a stop loss won't mean much if D!GiC III can get much better noise reduction. The very interesting part about a pelicular mirror would be that they could seal the sensor. Now this could be a good or bad thing depending on weather or not they could assembly a camera without dust... I can see all the posts now about getting a new camera with dust on a sensor you can't get too... If they were delivered clean it would be awesome to not have to worry about it though. You would still have to clean dust off the mirror though...

Oh yeah, the other thing I loved with the 1Nrs was that it had a normal mode and a RS mode on the switch where the RS mode saved your settings for high speed shooting and the other mode was for normal stuff. I reall miss this because it was nice setting one up with high FPS, AI Servo, and maybe a higher ISO where the other setting would have your regualr setting dialed in...

[I Simonius]

ere.. what's all this about a 3D?

zeees ees fery interesting... but vot ees eet?

FF and more expensive...is that it?

[Andy_T]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I like the pelicular idea.

Yes ... then maybe all the life preview junkies can upgrade from their P&S digicams :wink:

Best regards,
Andy

[Citizensmith]

Yes ... then maybe all the life preview junkies can upgrade from their P&S digicams :wink:

Best regards,
Andy

Not sure about that. Live preview would require the sensor to be powered up. I should imagine that could drain batteries a bit faster. Live preview and a fold out LCD screen like on the G series cameras though. It would be a wonderful thing.

[GeForceFX]

ere.. what's all this about a 3D?

zeees ees fery interesting... but vot ees eet?

FF and more expensive...is that it?


maybe 5D with the 1D AF system?

[.me]

5d is ff, isn't it, i actually heard something about it a long time ago.. and it really had a 1d focusing system.. i mean predictions, but that's whenever 1D was still popular, and there was no 1ds mk2

[.me]

I guess i'd want a 3d, if i knew whats so good about it... and i like that 5d is dropping in price.. are there any predictions on Digic III?

[I Simonius]

I guess i'd want a 3d, if i knew whats so good about it... and i like that 5d is dropping in price.. are there any predictions on Digic III?

Dunno bout Digic 3 butthe 5D getsa special offer from the 21-02-06 to the 30-6-06 so my guess is that if they need such an incentive to sell it, either it isn't selling well at all ( no idea) or the 20D up0grade will encroach on its specs too closely ( i.e.12MP?) or they already have the next iteration plannned (17MP please :-)) or any combination of the above

Hmmm, talk about stating te obvious!:lol:

[_SBradley_]

... the 5D getsa special offer from the 21-02-06 to the 30-6-06...

Is this listed on Canon UK's website, or...?

[I Simonius]

Is this listed on Canon UK's website, or...?


http://canon2006promotions.onlinerebates.com/

[.me]

17-40L to be discontinued new info on http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/354076

[Rumjungle]

When was the 17-40L introduced?

[.me]

somewhere around 10D... Febuary 2003 :)

[Rumjungle]

If this is true, then it didn't enjoy much of a production run...especially for an "L" lens.

[.me]

True, lenses usually live longer, but again, film cameras lived longer as well before beeing discontinued, substituted etc..

and in our digital fast paced world, where digicams are replaced every year and a half on the shelfs, and every 2-3 years in our cases.. they might made it better.. thats why they are replacing it, plus everyone was waiting for 24-105, but i didnt beleve that that's possible... well.. we'll see we'll see ...

[YosemiteJunkie]

hm...anyone have any guesses as the price point for the 30d? $1500 maybe a little less?
I just saw a price of $1399 (US)

[calicokat]

30D: Digic 3, 10mpx


Goes to show you how accurate the rumors can (not) be

[Kickstart]

Hi

Just to throw something else into the rumour pot.

Follows is the 30D web page

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos30d/index.html

Substitute eos30d for eos3000d in that URL and it comes back immediatly with page not found. Change it for eos3d and it just sits for ages;) .

All the best

Keith

[Dew]

Hi

Just to throw something else into the rumour pot.

Follows is the 30D web page

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos30d/index.html

Substitute eos30d for eos3000d in that URL and it comes back immediatly with page not found. Change it for eos3d and it just sits for ages;) .

All the best

Keith

hmmm.... mine gets fudged to the 30d page!

[.me]

Digic II
8.2 megapixels

I dont get this feature: "Seamless printing, enhanced PictBridge."
Like honestly, did anyone use it?




30D: Digic 3, 10mpx


Goes to show you how accurate the rumors can (not) be

[.me]

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/canon/ef85mm-big.jpgand Canon EF 85 mm F1.2 L II lens (Mark II)

[Rumjungle]

That thing is a short little beast (with a beast of a price tag)!

[Tom W]

Digic II
8.2 megapixels

I dont get this feature: "Seamless printing, enhanced PictBridge."
Like honestly, did anyone use it?

Yes... Once.... to see if it worked.

It did, but I don't tote my printer around with me very often.

[I Simonius]

That thing is a short little beast (with a beast of a price tag)!

where's the price?

[Citizensmith]

where's the price?

$2100 according to dpreview

[.me]

OUCH!!!
I guess if you really need it, you can rent it, i wouldn't need one of those..


$2100 according to dpreview

[I Simonius]

$2100 according to dpreview


Hmmm , might wait a day or two.....:rolleyes:

[YosemiteJunkie]

$2100 according to dpreview Guess it's still gonna be the 20D for me. I do like the bigger LCD but not enough for that price.

[.me]

i want more! i cant beleve this is all we're getting -- 30D and 2 stupid lenses!
GGGrrrr!

There's defenetly more -- because there was no anouncement of 1dsmkII N, and still hopelessly waiting for MORE, and 3d of course!

[CoolToolGuy]

i want more! i cant beleve this is all we're getting -- 30D and 2 stupid lenses!
GGGrrrr!

There's defenetly more -- because there was no anouncement of 1dsmkII N, and still hopelessly waiting for MORE, and 3d of course!

PMA is typically consumer-oriented, so any 1-series or other pro gear announcements may come a little later.
Not to exclude the 85mm f1.2L from the pro category, but since many of the pros are busy in Torino right now, those announcements may be a little while in coming.

Have Fun,

[I Simonius]

PMA is typically consumer-oriented, so any 1-series or other pro gear announcements may come a little later.
Not to exclude the 85mm f1.2L from the pro category, but since many of the pros are busy in Torino right now, those announcements may be a little while in coming.

Have Fun,

Howdya mean? - it will be more on the actual PMA or later in the year?

[.me]

you mean Photokina??


Howdya mean? - it will be more on the actual PMA or later in the year?

[CoolToolGuy]

Howdya mean? - it will be more on the actual PMA or later in the year?

It could be either. There is no question that the 20D 'replacement' was expected, and there is obviously a lot of buzz about it. Add in the 2 lens announcements and Canon is getting the pre-PMA buzz that they want. Other announcements could come during PMA or at a later time to generate a lot of buzz after PMA is over. The pros (and their employers) aren't that interested in PMA announcements, so their news could come later in the spring, or summer.

All of which is one man's opinion.

Have Fun,

[I Simonius]

you mean Photokina??

I mean either this forthcominf event on the 26th of this month or whatever the other event later in the year is called;)

[JBF]

Now that the 30D is out we no longer have to guess what it is. 10Megapixel-WRONG, Digic III-WRONG, this seems to be more of a 20Dn. A few upgrades not much more, like dangling a carrot, they better dangle a piece of chocolate cake for me to bite. Looks like I'll be waiting for the next major update, or wait until summer when I can buy this camera cheaper.

[.me]

You have 5D, why would you need 30D than? :D

Now that the 30D is out we no longer have to guess what it is. 10Megapixel-WRONG, Digic III-WRONG, this seems to be more of a 20Dn. A few upgrades not much more, like dangling a carrot, they better dangle a piece of chocolate cake for me to bite. Looks like I'll be waiting for the next major update, or wait until summer when I can buy this camera cheaper.

[photographicsafaris]

I personally think that the idea of a 1DRS as a successor for 1Dsii is the whimsical mutterings of an ignoramus that has never owned the 1NRS or RT.

I own the 1NRS and a 3 and a 5D the 1NRS has a specific set of purposes, it is not an allaround camera

A few facts firstly the EOS 1NRS mirror is not cleanable like a sensor. So I doubt that it would be used for a digital camera.

Secondly the issues with light loss are totally overrated. I mean seriously get with the program, its 1/3rd to 2/3rd of a stop difference, so with a f2.8 aperture on the EOS3, you would use f3.5 or f4 on the 1NRS. Fact: there is no hard and fast rule of the difference it varies with the light.

The only real fall down of the EOS 1NRS is that you cant really shoot into the sun it does flare quite a bit and gives reduced contrast levels at best. Hardly the qualities you wold embrace in your top of the line pro camera.

Yes I would love to see a 3-5Mpixel sensor mounted against the top of the prism of my 1NRS, I think that this would be really practical and easy to do, particularly if you could shoot the digital seperately for exposure checking and snaps.

As for the 1V at 10 fps versus the pellicle mirror at 10fps, there is one key difference, On the 1NRS you see the full extent of your photograph, no black out at all. Also an amazing feature is that in RS mode when you depress the shutter (Autofocus is activated, and then disabled) but you get aperture stop down, so you get to see the full effect of the depth of field while you are shooting.


Cheers G

P.S. I am waiting for a 3D but it wont come out soon, now with eye controlled focusing and a dust removal system it would be fxxxing great.

[jacobsen1]

but you get aperture stop down, so you get to see the full effect of the depth of field while you are shooting.

so you claim you can see what's going on for ~1/125th of a second or faster??? Doubtful. The biggest reason I want them to make a 1Drs is so that we can have that switch back with on possition for "normal" shooting, and one for "rapid shot"... It's a PITA switching everything over from sports to non action modes when it could be done with the flip of the switch. What's the stupid "beep" mode get me now... That should be a CF and that possition should allow you to set you camera up with 2 "modes"...

I love my 1Nrs for what is was. I miss some aspects, but not others.

Ben

[photographicsafaris]

Hi Ben,
I appreciate your point, 1/125th is a really small time frame, but actually if you're shooting wildlife thats moving then the short blackout period makes a distracting difference, particularly if its erratic movements and you are trying to pan with lower shutter speeds around 1/100th to 1/60th.

And yes the human eye can tell the difference, which is why you can see the black out with the mirror on Reflex action cameras. I'm using a 3 and a 5D and can see the differences. The true benefit of the 1V/D is that you have full autofocus whilst at 10fps.

Also when using on camera flash you do get to see the full flash exposure and any consequent reflections that you would not see with the 1v or 1D range.

I think thats why the pellicle mirror has always been used as a dedicated sports photographers camera, stretching all the way back to the salt lake city games with the manual focus 14fps canon f something. and because they now have reliable autofocus (well sort of) at 10fps they dont need a pellicle mirror

[jacobsen1]

Hi Ben,
I appreciate your point, 1/125th is a really small time frame, but actually if you're shooting wildlife thats moving then the short blackout period makes a distracting difference, particularly if its erratic movements and you are trying to pan with lower shutter speeds around 1/100th to 1/60th.


My point wasn't how useful the mirror was, but that you'r eye wouldn't be able to pick up the stopping down for that short period of time. I shoot a lot of skiing and snowboarding, and I loved the mirror because I got to watch what was going on through the camera, where as with the 1DmII I shoot with now, I really don't know what I have until I get home. All I know is if the person landed or not really. My point was just that it's near impossible to see and appreciate the stopped down look of the image/DOF while it's cooking along at 10fps.


Also when using on camera flash you do get to see the full flash exposure and any consequent reflections that you would not see with the 1v or 1D range.


Good point, but I've always used the flash preview button to check before I take a shot. Using the mirror to get a live image with flash preview is great though when you need to be shooting live and have no time to set up.

It will be very interesting to see what they do. There are a lot of pros and cons with the mirror, but one of the most promissing features would be the sealed sensor which might make it worth it. Especially considering the fact it's been YEARS since they made the 1Nrs so they have the chance to improve on the design quite a bit.

Ben