Prosumer or Professional?

[Hatem Eldoronki]

In my opinion, a Sony DSC-V1, a Canon G5 or an Olympus E-20N is a 'prosumer' camera, or a high-end advanced amateur consumer camera.
However, a lot of people let the 10D slide into that category. So to all the professionals I ask this: isn't the 10D a professional camera?
Or maybe we should make a poll!

[The Asgard]

Does it really matter what banner the camera falls into ?

One thing I do know, it's one amazing bit of kit for the money !

[Hatem Eldoronki]

You are absolutely correct. I guess I was searching for bragging rights!
After all, what really matters is the person behind the equipment!

[hommedars]

INMHO, in photography, the only thing that establishes bragging rights is the quality of your images.

Joe

[CDubeau]

Wouldn't all cameras have amateur status until they get paid for there sevices and then they are considered having turned professional?

Carl :o)

[rdenney]

mcouper wrote:
In my opinion, a Sony DSC-V1, a Canon G5 or an Olympus E-20N is a 'prosumer' camera, or a high-end advanced amateur consumer camera.
However, a lot of people let the 10D slide into that category. So to all the professionals I ask this: isn't the 10D a professional camera?
Or maybe we should make a poll!

In the hands of a professional, it is professional gear.

In the hands of an artist, it is a tool for making art.

Not all artists are professionals. In fact, there are many amateur photographers who are better than many pros, because pros have to please clients who may have poor taste and a small budget, but amateurs can spend the money they'd saved for their child's dental work and have only to please themselves. The only difference is that amateurs have not sought a commercial relationship with clients.

But there is a difference between commercial-quality gear and non-commercial-quality gear. That difference falls into two categories: Rugged dependability with high duty cycles, and an efficient access to features. The high duty cycle is the killer here. I have a collection of Ukrainian and (ex-) East German medium-format cameras all of which can produce world-class images in the hands of a master, but many of which would not endure the high duty cycles and rough treatment of a commercial operation. Yet I am happy to do professional work with them, as long as I know not to bang them around or depend on them too much.

Is the 10D a commercial-quality camera? I would say yes. It seems to me as durable as many commercial-quality cameras of the past. I would rate its build quality as being superior to my Canon F-1, or to my Mamiya C330ProS, both of which were intended as commercial-quality cameras, and both of which have endured a lot of banging around in my possession. It can't be splashed and rained on like an EOS-1 series, but then the EOS-1 cameras set a whole new standard for environmental toughness.

And I think it provides the features and the accessibility to those features needed for a commercial operation. One category of features includes lenses and lighting equipment. My Elan II is a hobbyist's camera because it has no PC connection for studio lights, for example. And any camera that can accept Canon L-series lenses has no need for shame.

But that doesn't mean that a G-2 can't produce professional images, or that a 10D always will. Again, I use lots of cameras that are shunned by most commercial photographers, and get results that meet commercial requirements.

Think of it this way. Auto mechanics spend unbelievable sums of money on Snap-On and other high-end tools, because they know those tools will always do the job and never break. Weekend mechanics go to Sears and buy Craftsman tools. Are those Sears tools as good as Snap-On? Not a chance. Not even close! But I can still fix my car with them.

Rick "a former auto mechanic" Denney

[CyberDyneSystems]

I agree.

But to give a direct answer,. Canon does not include the 10D in the "Professional" line up of DSLRs. That space is reserved for the 1d and 1Ds currently.

That said,. many pros use the 10D.

The same is true of Nikons D100 offering. It is not one of Nikons Pro DSLR,.. thise are the DIx and D1H.

Oddly the D100 specs exceed both of the "PRO" models... :D

...and thus many pros use the D100,.. (but most use the Fuji S2 :D :D )

To assure your stature of owner of a pro Camera,.. simply put a Battery grip on it and a pro lens,. like the 300mm f/2.8!!!!! No one will argue then :D :D :D

[BobbyC]

I don't know one self respecting mechanic that thinks snap-on tools are better than craftsman tools. ;0)

Ooops, wrong forum :0l

[traveler]

Every industry that produces a product typically manufactures a range of products geared, designed and manufactured to endure certain rigors or made to function within certain parameters. This is a diplomatic and I would like to think intelligent manner in which to present the fact that while anyone would love to believe that a given product is without limitations.....by design that simply isn't true.

With that said in the right hands a product not intended to meet these certain rigors may at times be able to perform to a level it was not expected to meet. But on the other hand it is not intended nor will it in reality be able to consistently meet those requirements demanded of it all the time.. That is why a company such as Canon designs and manufactures "Consumer" goods as well as "Professional" goods. As hard as it may be to accept there are demands a professional might make on their equipment that the consumer product simply was NOT designed to cope with. In THAT manner a 10D would indeed be a product designed for the Consumer and Serious Hobbyiest (their words not mine).

Believe me I'm not trying to create some kind of rift between Consumer/Prosumer/Professional levels here so much as to make clear that there are purposeful design limitations inherent in products NOT intended for the professional market. That's not to say they don't provide amazing levels of performance, but a professional that depends on a product for a living or to produce time and time again in ALL conditons might be dissapointed in some way. Don't sweat the small stuff........just keep shooting and learning...............

[rdenney]

traveler wrote:
As hard as it may be to accept there are demands a professional might make on their equipment that the consumer product simply was NOT designed to cope with. In THAT manner a 10D would indeed be a product designed for the Consumer and Serious Hobbyiest (their words not mine).



Oh, I dunno. What demands do working pros (i.e. commercial photographers) make that people like me don't? I want all the features a pro has (or, at least a pro that does the sort of work I do).

I don't think there is any difference between me and a commercial pro, but one: Duty cycle. I shoot in a year what a commercial photographer shoots in a few weeks. The shutter on his camera has to be rated and built for several hundred thousand cycles, and mine will do just fine if it lasts 10,000 cycles. For a commercial operation, quality is measured in terms durability.

For example, would my 70-200/4L be a world-class lens if it wasn't metal-skinned and fully gasketed? Of course it would. I wish I didn't have to pay for that stuff. I'd be happy with the same glass in a well-designed polycarbonate barrel.

Most consumers don't use their cameras nearly enough to need any durability at all, so it's okay if they are plastic and virtually disposable.

Rick "who wants as much or more quality as a working pro but who doesn't need as much durability" Denney

[MarkH]

The only time I talk to professional photographers is at the Rally of New Zealand. This year I was talking to a pro and I asked him what he thought of the 1Ds, he said "not interested". His 1D gave him enough resolution and the one thing that was important to him - 8fps!

Pros shoot with the 10D, 1D and 1Ds. Just because Canon prefer pros to pay for the 1D or 1Ds, it doesn't mean that all pros need either of those cams to do the job. Not all pros need the speed of the 1D or the resolution of the 1Ds. Not all pros require the weather proofness or the 45 point AF.

If the tool does the job well and reliably, then it IS the right tool for the job.

I suppose the 10D is technically a prosumer D-SLR. But it is still good enough for many pros.

[NavyShrink]

Are these terms--"professional" and "prosumer"--meaningful labels? Aren't these just terms created by marketing departments to differentiate there different lines of camera bodies? Does the word "prosumer" convey any meaningful information about a product, i.e. its characteristics, specifications, etc.?

[crn3371]

Zombie thread.

[NavyShrink]

Lol, here (http://asia.cnet.com/ask/whats-a-prosumer-camera-62062269.htm) is a definition that probably needs an upgrade!