Infrared Photography

[DigitDan]

I've been reading about infrared photography and got all excited about trying it. I purchased a Hoya 72 infrared filter on Ebay. It arrived yesterday. I rushed home, screwed it on the end of my sigma 70-300, attached the lens to my Canon D10 went out to the backyard and turned the camera on. I looked thru the viewfinder to compose a picture and I saw nothing but black!!!!

I aimed the camera at the sun and saw this tiny red dot. that's all.

Ok.....so....what am I doing wrong???

Digital Dan in Phoenix

[evilenglishman]

--

[Sunil]

And this one too:

http://www.cliffshade.com/dpfwiw/ir.htm

[mattchase]

Dan,

I can't really go into too much as I am at work right now, but just wanted to say that you should never look at the sun through an IR filter! Since the filter is blocking out most of the visible light, when you look at the sun you are getting a full blast of all the bad rays of light, which can damage your eyes.

I do have some experience with IR and the 10D, so will post later tonight when I get home, if some one else doesn't beat me to it.

[mattchase]

Hey again. So, ok, IR with the 10D. Yes it works. As you noticed, you pretty much can't see anything through the viewfinder once the filter is in place, so you need to compose your scene before putting the filter on. If you are lucky, you have a lens that has an IR marking on it, which will help you determine where to focus. Otherwise, you will need to stick with smaller apertures and practice practice practice.

I have a Harris and Harris IR filter (which I think is similar to a Hoya R72), and on a bright sunny day my typical exposures are ISO 100-200, f5.6, and about 3-6 seconds. I shoot in Raw, because one of the tricks to getting interesting false color images begins with tweaking the white balance on the computer. I have pasted the steps below, this information is from DPR, compliments of Chris (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5216393).

"You can do it with Photoshop's (Version 5.5 or later) Channel Mixer. Select the red channel and set the reds to zero and the blues to 100% instead. Then select the blue channel and do just the opposite. Don't modify the green channel.

If you only have Photoshop 5.0 LE, you can use http://www.irfanview.com (Freeware) instead and change the color scheme from RGB to BGR, which is the same.

But it's important, that you have an IR color image, that was taken with custom white balance, so that you get brown skies and blueish or cyan plants, which depends on the cam used. With the D30 plants get blueish, with the G1 and many other cams plants become cyan in IR. Both false color schemes work, important is the rusty brown sky. "

Using this method, you get images that look like this...
http://www.matthewchase.com/forum/ir01.jpg
(I am still learning how to do this, but am pretty happy with my results so far.)

And of course, you can always just convert to black and white too, which can give some cool looking images. Other things to note: look for greens and whites. Clouds get ballistically white, and green things turn various shades of white (in black and white). These two items seem to show off what IR can do the most, and I'm sure there are other things that do as well, but I am not sure what else. Skin takes on a soft, unreal smooth look. And haze vanishes...so IR is great for shooting hazy cities when you plan on making it a black and white image.

[DigitDan]

Thanks everyone for all your help!!! I took a couple of pictures of my backyard yesterday with the filter. I was pleased with the results.

Dan in Phoenix

[rblissett]

Thanks for posting that image mattchase. I own the d60 the older sibling to the 10d. I've read that these cameras weren't capable of IR as they use a CMOS sensor as opposed to the stander CCD type for image capture. Clearly you've proven the nay-sayers wrong.

I'm off to buy my hoya R72! Ok maybe not today, but I'm convinced I can make it work now :).

Do you or anyone else here have any other pics using either the d60 or 10d. I would love to see them.

Rob

[Gibmeister]

This is my first attempt. Still trying to get the focusing right. I am still not sure that the10D does a good job with infrared. Used the Hoya R72. 8sec, @ F16 ISO200
[img]http://images.fotopic.net/?id=855279&outx=600&oq=0[img]

[rblissett]

Gibmeister wrote:
This is my first attempt. Still trying to get the focusing right. I am still not sure that the10D does a good job with infrared. Used the Hoya R72. 8sec, @ F16 ISO200


I've heard that focusing should be done prior to taking the shot, then putting it in manual focus, and then install the filter.

I've also heard another great tip which can be applied to all long exposure shots, and that's to use the timer to trigger the photo. Makes sense for me as manually pushing the shutter button can cause a small amount of vibration which might cause your shot to look slightly blury or even out of focus.

The background building could probably use some PS assistence but clearly your getting the IR effect.

Rob

[mattchase]

11:22am Pacific time: I appoligize, I have my site hosted on my server at work, and currently it appears to be down. It will eventually reboot itself and come back online, but until then the pictures won't load.
------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't do much IR with my D60, but did find this one shot from my D60, I think this was actually the first time I ever tried it. I have heard that the D60 is not as sensitive to IR as the 10D is, but this image shows that the D60 will still work.

http://www.matthewchase.com/forum/d60_ir.jpg

And here are a series of shots that are the same view, but shot with and without IR filters, shown in color and converted to grayscale. All of these done with the 10D.

The normal view in color shot at f11, 1/200th, ISO 100.
http://www.matthewchase.com/forum/color1.jpg

This is the image above converted to grayscale (no IR filter).
http://www.matthewchase.com/forum/ir1b.jpg

The shot using the IR filter, then converted to grayscale. This was shot at f5.6, 6 seconds, ISO 100.
http://www.matthewchase.com/forum/ir1a.jpg

And finally, the IR image above done as a false color image.
http://www.matthewchase.com/forum/ir1c.jpg

So, while the 10D may not be as good as some of the older 2mp-3mp digicams, it is still very capable of doing this type of photography.

[rblissett]

Just and FYI for those looking to simulate IR using photoshop channels... I downloaded this from a guy over at the dpreview.com forum. Anyway something to be played with. Haven't really been able to get a seriously close IR fake but this seemed ok.

http://galleries.robblissett.com/sim_IR_IMG_2325_web.jpg

Anyway if your interested you can check out his site at http://www.geocities.com/glowluzid/

[Longwatcher]

rblissett wrote:
Thanks for posting that image mattchase. I own the d60 the older sibling to the 10d. I've read that these cameras weren't capable of IR as they use a CMOS sensor as opposed to the stander CCD type for image capture. Clearly you've proven the nay-sayers wrong.

I'm off to buy my hoya R72! Ok maybe not today, but I'm convinced I can make it work now :).

Do you or anyone else here have any other pics using either the d60 or 10d. I would love to see them.

Rob



Just to let you know, The D60 is fairly useless for IR photography. The 10D sensor works, the D60 doesn't (at least not very well). The Hoya R72 will let in some red light, but not enough. To get it to work at all you will need 20 second settings versus 2-4 seconds with the 10D.

I have both and have tested with same lens and filter with very disappointing results with D60.

[tikkeltokkel]

would a polariser filter work with an infrared filter?

[Gibmeister]

Tim or others, When you did the infrared photos with your 10D did you change any of the settings on the 10D? Contrast, sharpnes, saturation, or white balance?

Thanks

Gib

[rblissett]

Hey Longwatcher, thanks for the advice... I've pretty much forgotten about even worrying about it.

My friend has the sony, uh, can't remeber what it's called but it's their high end one. Anyway, from my research this is a superiour (sp?) camera when it comes to IR. It even uses an IR emitter for night shots so obviously it's sensor is very capable of reading IR.

So anyway, we'll be trading every now and again.

Later,

Rob

If you want to see some unbelievable IR shots just check out this link: http://www.pbase.com/zylen

[mattchase]

Gib, I almost always shoot RAW (not just for IR), and with Adobe RGB color space. The parameter settings (contrast, saturation, etc) are only active with the sRGB color space, so none of those had any effect on my shots. I do tweak them in photoshop, though the black and white shots aren't too edited, but the false color images are moderately edited to achieve that look.

White balance with IR shots is important, but only after the fact, and only if you plan on doing false color images. The technique above depends on you shooting in RAW, and doing a custom white balance that gives you a brownish copper sky color, and blueish plants. Without that the technique doesn't work out so well. You could probably figure out a custom white balance to shoot at that would give you these colors, but it might be dificult. I stick with shooting RAW, and doing a custom white balance on the computer. If you plan on converting the images to black and white, then white balance won't really matter at all.

[DigitDan]

Well......this has been very informative!!! Unfortunately, I'm outta the infrared shooting business for now. I was at the park the other day, composed my shot, and while attempting to screw on my Hoya 72 filter, dropped it on the sidewalk and chipped it badly. Darn.....and I was just beginning to get the hang of it......hehehe.......oh well....back to Ebay for another filter

Dan in Phoenix

[Sunil]

I'd like to thank everyone who's posted info and images in this thread - I've found it all very informative. It's encouraging me to invest in an R72 filter myself.

Great images - very dreamlike.

[Longwatcher]

Gibmeister wrote:
Tim or others, When you did the infrared photos with your 10D did you change any of the settings on the 10D? Contrast, sharpnes, saturation, or white balance?

Thanks

Gib

All I do to take an IR image is focus about 10% forward of the target, screw on the IR filter then change exposure settings (shutter/ISO/aperture) to compensate.

I have found that to get the best results with IR I need the peak to be on the dark side of the histogram.

Otherwise no problem.

I would be interested to know which other filters work as the Hoya R72 lets in some red light as well as IR. I would like an IR only filter that works. I am looking for something I can't see through, but the sensor can.

Just my experience.

[Gibmeister]

Tim, When you say back the focus off about 10%. Does that mean if I am focusing at say 50 feet, flip to maual focus and set to 45 feet? Thanks for your help.

[photography By Evangelos]

Hello what dose the filter cost $$ and is ebay the cheepest place to get it?

[mattchase]

The filter cost depends on the diameter you need, and can go from affordable to really expensive. If you plan on using it on most any of the L lenses which take 72mm-77mm filters, the Hoya RM72 will run about $250!

If you drop that down to just a 62mm filter, then the price is about $75, and for a 52mm filter only $40. When I first started doing this, I bought a smaller filter (I think it was 52mm) to fit my 50mm lens, since it was so much less expensive. Yes, it limited me to a 50mm prime, but I didn't know if it was something I would continue to use or not, so a $40 investment was much easier to swallow than $250.

There are other options, such as the Tiffen 87, which at 77mm is $130. Still not cheap, but is half the price of the Hoya filter. I found a company out of California that makes filters for the movie industry, and bought an IR filter from them in the 72mm diameter. I think I paid about $60 for it, but that was many years ago, so can't be sure if they still sell them or for what price. This filter is what I used to take the photos posted above in this thread. Contact info for them is

Harrison & Harrison Optical Engineers
1835 Thunderbolt Drive Unit E
Porterville, CA 93257-9300
559-782-0121 phone
559-782-0824 fax
e-mail:harrisonop@aol.com

[wtlloyd]

The Hoya R72 filters pass light greater than 720 nanometers. The RM-90 filters pass light greater than 900 nanometers. The RM series filters average $100 or so more than a same sized R72.

[photography By Evangelos]

I found the Hoya R72 for $187.00 thats way too much I think any one find a better price? Also what is the tiffen filter name for the IR filter? By the way its for a 77MM as most of my lenses are this size. Thanks.

[mattchase]

The tiffen equivelant is the #87, which is the traditional number for this type of filter, so Kodak and others also have #87 filters.

The Tiffen #87 in 77mm is about $130.

[Longwatcher]

Answer to question about change of focus.
Yes if your subject is at 50feet I have found that I would need to manually move my focus to about 45feet. It may need to be a bit closer even (say 40 feet), but 10-20% will put you in the ball park. I do know focusing on the subject will result in fuzzy picture.

Answer to Hoya price. As I always recommend the 50/1.8 or 50/1.4 this is the lens to use when first playing with IR filters and the 10D. I have the 50/1.4. The 58mm filter Hoya R72 runs about $45 at B+H. The 77mm runs $262, I was not willing to pay that much just to find out if it worked or not. $45 I can blow, $262 is too much.

My most recent results were at f2.8, 2 secs, ISO 400, bright sunny day. In my studio I needed f2.0, 4 secs, ISO 400 to get decent results. After playing with my 50/1.4 and the Hoya R72 for it, I think I can satisfy my craving for now for IR photography and hold off on the 77mm IR filter I will need eventually for almost every other lens I have. Big difference in price.

As to wavelength. The Hoya R72 has a 720nm "peak' cutoff. it actually lets through some light in down to about 650nm if I remember correctly. In any case it does let in some red light, but blocks most (but not all) below 720.

Just my experience,

[photography By Evangelos]

Let me ask is the tiffen as good as the Hoya filter? Do the let the same amount of light in? If so the tiffen is a better buy.

[Longwatcher]

My research says the Tiffen has a sharper cutoff (meaning less visible light, which is better) then the Hoya, but it cost more. I myself plan on getting it the next time I order stuff from B+H (probably at same time as 70-200/2.8IS). Since I don't have it I can't say more then that.

I would eventually like to get several of the IR lenses of various types, but cost is a big factor.

It would be nice if one of my favorite reviewers would get their hands on different IR filters and try them out with the different cameras. Save me from the compulsion to find out for myself as soon as I can afford it. None of the local camera stores carry IR filters or I could try them out.

[tony723]

You may check some good infrared photos taken by Don in Hong Kong:
http://www.kleptography.com/gallery-peak.htm

[Griffin]

Has anyone tried the B+W 093 IR filter with 10D? TIA.


Griffin.

[lightandlife]

Matt Chase: Thanks for the pics and info. Very useful.

I like this forum because I can learn from others.

[mattchase]

You are very welcome, always glad to share.

I recently discovered my filter has a speck of damage on it which with certain lenses causes a huge flare. I can still mostly use my wide lenses, but it shows up, and can't use it on long lenses at all. So oh well. I will get another one some day, not sure yet which one, but it won't be the Hoya since it costs so much.

The B+W 092 has a 50% cutoff at 650nm, where the Hoya R72 is 720nm and the Tiffen 87 is 780nm. The higher the number, the less visible light gets through, which is a good thing for some digital cameras (and better for true IR shots), but can be a bad thing for some cameras. The majority of cameras seem to work to some degree with the Hoya R72, which means they should also work fine with the B+W, but it seems a lot more hit and miss when it comes to the Tiffen 87 and darker filters. I think I am going to play it safe and get the B+W, but that could change. I will let you guys know what I find, though it may be a while before I get the filter.

Took this last week, shortly before finding the speck on the filter. Probably the last IR shot for a while
http://www.matthewchase.com/forum/irfarm.jpg

[tony723]

I recently bought a Hoya R72 filter and I have the first trial of it:

http://photo.tonyleung.com/data/media/291/CRW_8361.jpg

[lightandlife]

Matt: A beautiful shot!

Tony: The scene looks familiar, except the color.

What time of the day did you take these pictures? morning, noon, afternoon, evening?

I sure would like try IR filters. If you were to recommend one, which filter would you recommend?

[mattchase]

The last shot I posted was done around 10:40am, the other shots I posted on page 1 were done in the late afternoon and early morning.

If I only had one to recommend, I would say get the Hoya R72. It seems to be the filter that works with the most cameras, or at least the one you hear most people are using. But the price of it could be a problem, depending on how big the filter threads needed. I am going to get the B+W filter, it is about $100 less than the Hoya (but still about $140!). I am pretty confident it will work fine, but since it lets in a little more visible light than the Hoya, that might be a problem. Of course, this extra bit of visible light might add some interesting effects to false color images, or maybe it will just get in the way...don't know yet. In the end, I figure it will just require a bit more editing on the computer, which is fine with me, I expect it when working with NIR - it just kinda is what it is I guess.

[Griffin]

Again, anyone tried B+W 093 with 10D, I read some with G1 with hot mirror removed.

TIA.

[dwbrant]

So I was searching on infrared topics in this forum and happened upon this thread.

One additional method of IR filtering nobody mentioned -- use a Kodak gel filter. They are a bit flimsy so must be treated gently... and you need to use a gel holder setup... but when you add it all together, the total still comes out to much less than the cost of a Hoya R72 in 77mm.

I use a Cokin 'P' series gel holder and filter holder with a 77mm adapter. All told, the items would cost (taking prices from B&H Photo):

Kodak gel filter: 29.95
Cokin P holder: 7.95
Cokin 77mm adapter ring: 9.15
Cokin gel holder: 8.95

Total: 56.00 (US Dollars)

The cool thing about Cokin system is that once you've bought all that stuff, you can buy other creative-use filters for fairly cheap. For example, a neutral density x8 would be around $10.00 ... and if you've an adapter ring for each of your lenses, all your filters will work on all your lenses.

The one filter I wouldn't bother with using the Cokin series is a polarizer .. these just work better actually screwed onto your lens (the Cokin polarizer isn't any cheaper and is less convenient).

-- Dave

[jwkramer]

dwbrant wrote:
So I was searching on infrared topics in this forum and happened upon this thread.

One additional method of IR filtering nobody mentioned -- use a Kodak gel filter. They are a bit flimsy so must be treated gently... and you need to use a gel holder setup... but when you add it all together, the total still comes out to much less than the cost of a Hoya R72 in 77mm.

I use a Cokin 'P' series gel holder and filter holder with a 77mm adapter. All told, the items would cost (taking prices from B&H Photo):

Kodak gel filter: 29.95
Cokin P holder: 7.95
Cokin 77mm adapter ring: 9.15
Cokin gel holder: 8.95

Total: 56.00 (US Dollars)

The cool thing about Cokin system is that once you've bought all that stuff, you can buy other creative-use filters for fairly cheap. For example, a neutral density x8 would be around $10.00 ... and if you've an adapter ring for each of your lenses, all your filters will work on all your lenses.

The one filter I wouldn't bother with using the Cokin series is a polarizer .. these just work better actually screwed onto your lens (the Cokin polarizer isn't any cheaper and is less convenient).

-- Dave

Thanks for the GREAT Idea!!! I ordered mine today! This is a great way to save some money. Plus, I can use it on 3 different lenses!

Thanks!!!

-Jim

[arumdevil]

So I see it is possible to get IR shots with a 10D, is it also possible with the 300D?

if so, would this (http://www.jessops.com/search/viewproduct.cfm?PRODUCT=HOYIR58&BRAND=CAN,HOY,ILF& CONTINUE=false&FEATS=&FIRSTPRICE=0&KEYWORD=&LEVEL= &MODELNUMBER=&NEWQUERY=True&NODE=194&ORD=ASC&ORDER BY=&QUANTITY=40&RECENT=0&REFINE=&SEARCH_FOR=&SEARC HNODE=0&SEARCHURL=dointellisearch.cfm&SECONDPRICE= 999999&SHOWCASEID=&STARTROW=1&SUBS=52845,52974&WOR D_SEARCH=N&) be a good filter to get?

thanks

[msvadi]

would a polariser filter work with an infrared filter?

LOL!!!! that's a great joke! :lol:

[sgtpepper67]

So I see it is possible to get IR shots with a 10D, is it also possible with the 300D?

if so, would this (http://www.jessops.com/search/viewproduct.cfm?PRODUCT=HOYIR58&BRAND=CAN,HOY,ILF& CONTINUE=false&FEATS=&FIRSTPRICE=0&KEYWORD=&LEVEL= &MODELNUMBER=&NEWQUERY=True&NODE=194&ORD=ASC&ORDER BY=&QUANTITY=40&RECENT=0&REFINE=&SEARCH_FOR=&SEARC HNODE=0&SEARCHURL=dointellisearch.cfm&SECONDPRICE= 999999&SHOWCASEID=&STARTROW=1&SUBS=52845,52974&WOR D_SEARCH=N&) be a good filter to get?

thanks

Yeah, I really need to know this too. So if anyone knows please tell me. From what I have read so far all I know is that it is supposed to work since the 300D uses the same sensor as the 10D, but I am not so sure, since the 300D uses a mirror instead of a prism, or does the 10D use a mirros too? I am not sure, someone help us!

[arumdevil]

well I can tell you that the use of prism, mirror, or whatever only affects what you see through the viewfinder (and maybe AF) but doesn't effect the actual photo so isn't relevant in this case. I still haven't found out about IR with the 300D yet.

[sgtpepper67]

well I can tell you that the use of prism, mirror, or whatever only affects what you see through the viewfinder (and maybe AF) but doesn't effect the actual photo so isn't relevant in this case. I still haven't found out about IR with the 300D yet.

Ah, well thanks for that info. I think this pretty much proves that you can do some IR with the Rebel though. I just found it.

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31970

I think it's safe to try and buy the Hoya filter now...

[arumdevil]

good find, thanks.

[sgtpepper67]

good find, thanks.

No problem, I am glad I could help out a bit on my first day here. I seem to like these forums so far, there is a lot of useful info.

[msvadi]

Kodak gel filter: 29.95
Cokin P holder: 7.95
Cokin 77mm adapter ring: 9.15
Cokin gel holder: 8.95

Total: 56.00 (US Dollars)



I canno find a Kodak infrared filter for 29.95. I realize that prices chnaged since then, but the least expensive Kodak IR filter that i can find is around $56.

Did anyone try the Cokin Infrared filter? The filter connection has P007 for $42.68.
http://www.2filter.com/cokin/cokinp.html
I understand that P007 has the same sensitivity as Hoya R72, can somebody confirm that?

[DocFrankenstein]

Guys - come on! 200 bucks for a POS piece of glass? :shock:

I am sure there are ways around it. The IR glass itself is easy to manufacture. It whole filter would cost 3-5 bucks

I am sure there's quite a number of sources where you can get good IR glass. It's a topic worth researching.

Off the top of my head... the bank machines that check for counterfeit stuff. Usually they have an IR tube inside AND the IR glass. I saw one on a garage sale for 2 bucks. Didn't buy it, cause I wasn't into photography back then.

I'd be able to mount the IR glass on top of my lens.

[arumdevil]

i think you may be talking about Ultra violet :?: at least thats what they use to check bank notes in the UK.

[J___]

hey guys, can the 300D do infrared?

[br3w0k]

hey guys, can the 300D do infrared?

yes of course
i did some IR photo with 300D and Canon 50mm f1.8
look at this :
http://andry.alamsyah.net/categories.php?cat_id=21

[Hot Opal]

I have a D60.
Some say I can, some say I can't shoot Infrared.
Is anyone having any success with this camera and if so what is your procedure?
An example would be appreciated.
Regards,
Neville.

[Sounguru]

Okay It looks like this thread hasn't been posted on for awhile, but it is what inspired me to go out and purchase 2 r72's for my 10 d. Boy is this going to be fun. I will post a some pics as soon as they are here:) :) :)

[acidhouse]

has everyone been out buying IR filters, as i've tried 3 online retailers and their all on 14 day back orders.
Oh well, just have to wait, btw, its all your guys fault, for putting ideas in my head.

[Sounguru]

Found mine on e-bay didn't wait for the bid to close just clicked the buy now button. The reserve was only $5 less than the buy now price go figure.:confused:

[Longwatcher]

There are only really two filters you still need in a digital realm
Polorizer and infrared
Polorizer filters are wanted by just about everybody and they know it so they make a lot, and almost everyone has some in stock.

Infrared filters on the other hand are only wanted by a few people and so they don't produce as many, so when there is a short term craze, demand out strips supply for a few months (or longer).

However, BHphotovideo has them in stock, although you won't get to them for at least a week as it is a holiday week for them (store closed for Passover), you can order them online, they just won't pack and ship until Monday.

[Sounguru]

It worked like a champ thanks to everyone here for thier input on how to get great NIR shots on the 10d. I will post a few photos as soon as I can get up to the mountains and get some killer shots.

[Sounguru]

Here is my first run at it :)

[F1_Fan]

Guys - come on! 200 bucks for a POS piece of glass? :shock:


Google for Harrison and Harrison and ask them for a quote. They custom make filters to order (I think their main business is for the movie industry). I had them make a filter for my old Nikon 990 and IIRC the price was quite reasonable for a specialty item.

[F1_Fan]

Here is my first run at it :)

Looks like you've the infamous hot spot in the middle. Some Canon lenses are good for IR and some are bad (due to internal reflections or something). I think the 50 mm f/1.8 is one of the acceptable choices.

[Sounguru]

The hot spot I think you are seeing is actually a very deep red leaf maple. I have run this lens on other scenes and not seen the hot spot. I had heard about it and have looked for it. This is the only image where the middle is very bright and it orginates from that tree... But I will keep running test to see if I can get it to occur else where.
Thanks for the input I'm headed to the mountains this week so I will for sure know whether this lens has the hot spot by the time I return.:)


I have also heard the 50mm 1.8 is a good lens but I am aming at an L wide angle and an L fixed focal any ideas anyone.

[Sounguru]

Need Help Please ..............


Every lens I own is creating the dreaded hotspot in my IR photos is it only the fixed focal lengths taht don't have this problem or is it the 10 d I am using?

Any suggestions for lens would be a big help....

[Jon]

There's a (partial, out-of-date) list here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38272&highlight=IR+spot). Your macro and 70-200 are on the "bad" list, while the 24-70's classed as "good".

[Sounguru]

Well Piss on a rope now I have to go buy another lens and filter wiffies gonna love that one. Maybe I'll buy it for her for a birthday gift and when she says its not what she wanted I'll return it *(wink wink nudge nudge)*