10D - focus tests suck

[RedShoesGirl]

I think I am going to be sick to my stomach. I have been running a couple of informal tests on the new camera and the results are awful.

I put four images here:

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=998&stype=2&si=RedShoesGirl

Focus was in the center of each image - cropped them to show the problem better except for the last one, that is full frame.

These have not be PhotoShopped in any way.

The lens was an L series 80-200 shot at 2.8 at wide 80mm. My first tests were with a 100 f2 and I kept thinking it was me but with the second lens and I am not sure what is going on. Heck the Nikon D1 does better than this!

now what.???

[Stoneh]

The 10D has no inbuilt camera sharpening, you have to apply a bit of USM and maybe correct contrast on some pictures.

This has been discussed lots of times on various forums.

[RedShoesGirl]

stoneh wrote:
The 10D has no inbuilt camera sharpening, you have to apply a bit of USM and maybe correct contrast on some pictures.

This has been discussed lots of times on various forums.

No, this is WAY beyond USM. Backfocusing has also been discussed on many different Canon forums. I don't use in camera focusing on the D1 either and those images are at least focused on what I am pointing the camera at.

[Jeppe]

Yes your spot on the problem here... focus test suck

It's the test that suck, not the focus ;-)

Since one cannot see where you have focused it will be pretty hard for us to see.

If you think its bad, then return it to Canon for adjustment. Not much point in whining about it, really..

Best reg.

Jeppe

[RedShoesGirl]

Not whining, just disappointed. I was SO excited about getting this camera.

It isn't the test that sucks. It is the focus. As a professional for almost 30 years I expect a camera to focus on where I am pointing it. My EOS1n does, the Nikon D1 does, as do our work D60s.

And if you read my first post more carefully you'll see that I said that the focus point was in the center of the image in each shot.

I was so hoping that I would have a "good" one and not one with a focusing problem.

Oh, well, send back to B&H and try again! :)

[Jeppe]

Yepp, i agree. Its disapointment if you get a faulty merchendise. No fun at all, One guy i know here in Sweden had some sligthly backfokus... not much, just about 6-9 FEET with his 70-200/2.8L and 10D when shooting from 30 feet.. Now, theres a problem.

The thing with your pictures is that i really cant figure out where the focus should be, its pretty hard to see where it is.

[soumya63]

Which one is that center object? It would be helpful if you just put a tiny dot by photoshop on the file to show where you have pointed the focus sensor.

Some time I tend to forget to selected the centor focus point. :-)

Soumya

http://www.mitraphoto.com

[RedShoesGirl]

soumya63 wrote:
Which one is that center object? It would be helpful if you just put a tiny dot by photoshop on the file to show where you have pointed the focus sensor.

Some time I tend to forget to selected the centor focus point. :-)



Ok, did that... kind of a bigger red dot than tiny. :) Here is a quick focus test shot today with the same 80-200 lens (love that lens!) and no USM in photoshop.
http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/35spring_valley_lake_2.jpg?3959

RSG

[eddylush]

Don't you think you have over done the red dots in the above! :)

[RedShoesGirl]

eddylush wrote:
Don't you think you have over done the red dots in the above! :)

LOL!

[RGorrill]

I took a look at your focus tests and what I see is the possibility of camera motion in your photographs. Since you did not indicate the shutter speed that you used with the 80-200 wide-open at f/2.8 nor the ISO used it is difficult to come up with a definitive answer. The D60 shot wide open at f/2.8 with bright sunlight over your shoulder would have given you a high shutter speed to overcome any possible camera shake. You do have to remember that your 80-200 is, in reality, a 128-320mm lens so the minimum shutter speed at the 80mm point should really be a 250th of a second (long lens focal length X 2 for a reasonable hand-held shot).

What was the EXIF information for those shots?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I have to assume that with an f/2.8 on those shots she had a pretty darn fast shutter?

The problem I am haveing with the test pics is that I don't see ANY part looking sharply focused. In some of the railing shots I see areas that are MORE in focus,. but nothing looks spot on?

RSG,

You have enough experience to know when things are right,. I'd give it another few hours shooting to put your mind at ease,... and then send it BACK :(

What a bummer! :(

[CyberDyneSystems]

One little thing I might add,. sometimes the amount of softness that the 10D has, coupled with the scrutiny we can lay on it by viewing on a monitor can show us stuff that we wouldn't normally see.

We know that lenses perform better stopped down a little,. could this be a glare/wide aperture issue as well?

Sometimes I find that harsh afternoon sun will make it harder to focus. I wonder if the extra sensitivity in dark focusing that the 10D has over the D30 and D60 hurts it at the other end? Just a theory.

I know this is good glass,. so I am now grabbibg at straws,. but perhaps a series of test under less harsh sunlight with the aperture stopped down even to 4.0 or so?

[RedShoesGirl]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I have to assume that with an f/2.8 on those shots she had a pretty darn fast shutter?

Yep she did! Around !/1000 depending on which way I was facing.

The problem I am haveing with the test pics is that I don't see ANY part looking sharply focused. In some of the railing shots I see areas that are MORE in focus,. but nothing looks spot on?

No, you are absolutely right. I keep hoping that I am doing something really stupid here and it isn't the camera!

RSG,

You have enough experience to know when things are right,. I'd give it another few hours shooting to put your mind at ease,... and then send it BACK :(

Thank you. You know that awful feeling in the pit of your stomach when things are rather screwy and you just can't figure out why, but you have just spent a whole bunch of money on the screwy thing?!

I am going out this weekend with all three digi SLR's and we shall see what we get.

RSG

[RedShoesGirl]

Well, after another informal test with three digital cameras I am sad to say the results are not better for my 10D

I am embedding all three shots here for you guys. The first is the 10D, second in the Canon D60 and lastly the Nikon D1....which was somewhat better than the D60. Things are not looking good for keeping this camera.

All three cameras had 80-200 zooms on them....same one used on both Canons. Shot at either 1/2000 or 1/4000 depending on the camera set itself. Av priorty at 2.8. These shots are not sharpened. Cropped at 100% so these are not blown up versions of the shot.

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/35blm_sign_10D_4.jpg

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/35blm_sign_D60_1.jpg

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/35blm_sign_D1_2.jpg

So now to pack it all up and send it back.

[RedShoesGirl]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
One little thing I might add,. sometimes the amount of softness that the 10D has, coupled with the scrutiny we can lay on it by viewing on a monitor can show us stuff that we wouldn't normally see.

We know that lenses perform better stopped down a little,. could this be a glare/wide aperture issue as well?

Sometimes I find that harsh afternoon sun will make it harder to focus. I wonder if the extra sensitivity in dark focusing that the 10D has over the D30 and D60 hurts it at the other end? Just a theory.

I know this is good glass,. so I am now grabbibg at straws,. but perhaps a series of test under less harsh sunlight with the aperture stopped down even to 4.0 or so?

Since I buy2.8 glass to use at 2.8 it wouldn't make much sense to stop the lens down to 4 just to see if it looks better.

If I had wanted a f4 then that is what I would have bought! :) Lenses need to work however you need them to work and I shoot a lot of stuff in crummy light at f2.8.

Going outside to try in less harsh light.

[RedShoesGirl]

Here is the link for the gallery with the last two shots uploaded. A red cup - 10D - not focused anywhere I can see in the image and the D60 which looks good.

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=35&cat=500&password=

Thanks for all the suggestions folks.

RSG

[CyberDyneSystems]

RedShoesGirl wrote:

Since I buy2.8 glass to use at 2.8 it wouldn't make much sense to stop the lens down to 4 just to see if it looks better.

If I had wanted a f4 then that is what I would have bought! :) Lenses need to work however you need them to work and I shoot a lot of stuff in crummy light at f2.8.

Going outside to try in less harsh light.




I agree with what you say,.. yes the camera and lens should work together at f/2.8,.. but,... I guess what I was trying to say poorly is that you don't use a lens at f/2.8 with a 1/4000 shutter in strong sunlight... do you? When it gets that bright don't you usually stop down?

In the end it makes no difference as you clearly show that the lens works fine under the same conditions at f/2.8 on the D60.

But i was wondering about the f/2.8 under the harsh light,. not f/2.8 in general. I have a 70-200mm f/2.8 that I use at f/2.8 when I need tthe aperture to ge the shutter speeds for low light,. I don't think I've ever used it at 2.8 on a bright afternoon... but I do know i get good focus in moderate to low light at 2.8.

.. and yet this is the only lens I own where soetimes even while I'm shooting I will say to myself,. this is not focused right I will tweek the ring. I remeber a few times specifically while shooting a softball game .. bright sunlit afternoon.. I don't recall having set to f/2.8... but now I am wondering...

Oh well,. thinking out loud now,. its just a theory.

[RedShoesGirl]

...

I agree with what you say,.. yes the camera and lens should work together at f/2.8,.. but,... I guess what I was trying to say poorly is that you don't use a lens at f/2.8 with a 1/4000 shutter in strong sunlight... do you? When it gets that bright don't you usually stop down?

No, not usually. If I am shooting something that I want the background out of focus then I shoot at 2.8. I do that a lot. I want very exact control of the DOF and background. Like this shot...shot with a 300 at 2.8. The background was WAY too busy and I wanted these guys to really stand out...so shot it at 2.8.

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/35cowboys_fence_Hesperia.jpg

In the end it makes no difference as you clearly show that the lens works fine under the same conditions at f/2.8 on the D60.

Yeppers!

But i was wondering about the f/2.8 under the harsh light,. not f/2.8 in general. I have a 70-200mm f/2.8 that I use at f/2.8 when I need tthe aperture to ge the shutter speeds for low light,. I don't think I've ever used it at 2.8 on a bright afternoon...

Shot on a VERY bright early afternoon, 80-200, wide open at 2.8 zoomed in as much as possible. Backlit to make the flowers look like they were lit from inside....short DOF to create more of an impressionistic look, the flowers become abstract with so very little in focus...and yes, there are a couple of elements that are in focus. :)

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/35poppies_3a.jpg

Being able to control depth of field is an important tool for me, that is why I like fast glass...and want it to be in focus where and when I want. Make sense?

RSG