New to Photography

[Bobman]

Hi, I am new to digital photography. I am getting a digital camera to start. Is Canon 10D really a good cam to go with.

Sorry for the silly questions......

thanks

[Longwatcher]

The 10D is a great camera, if you are new to photography in general, it may be too much. If you have used film SLRs for awhile, then it is definately a camera you will like.

Just my opinion,

[Bobman]

Thank you......

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

To start with the 10D can be too much, on the other hand the manual is very easy to follow and there are a lot of semi automatic settings to play with.

Start of in automatic mode and learn what the camera does, than switch to shutter priority, and than to Aperture priority. That's the way I have done it.

When you have experience with SLR's it's an easy step, it's no point and click camera however.
You will always need some after work in PS or your editor of choice.

One thing...... you won't run into limitations of your camera very soon (like I did with my digicams before the 10D).

Greetings,
Frank

[Andy_T]

Hi Bob,

if you're new to photography, don't underestimate the amount of real money you'll have to shell out on quality lenses to match your D10!

The rule of thumb is that you'll invest about 2-3 times the value of the body in decent lenses until you're equipped to react to every photographic challenge.

(If you read too many posts here, the amount will be higher :))

If you're not totally sure yet about investing something in the range of US$ 5.000 on a hobby that you might or might not come to like, an alternative is to consider the G3/G5.

It's a great camera with many of the functions of the D10 , and with some goodies (flash, tripod, bag, whatnot...) you'll end up spending about as much as the naked D10 body costs - but you're ready to go.

Of course, the G3/G5 is no SLR camera, and it does not have the flexibility to exchange lenses (unless you count using an adapter for tele/wideconverters, which isn't the same thing)

Plus, if you really like it and decide to upgrade to the D10 later, you can keep all the accessories. Then you'll also want to have a backup camera, so you can just keep the G3 :)...

Also, you can 'just take' the G3/G5 with you when you don't want to lug all that equipment around with you...

Just my 2 cents,
Andy

PS: Of course I'd gladly upgrade my G2 to the D10. But my wife insists I'd rather pay the mortgage on the house first...

[Morden]

Plus, if you really like it and decide to upgrade to the D10 later, you can keep all the accessories. Then you'll also want to have a backup camera, so you can just keep the G3
Which is what I did, keeping my 'little' G2 when I bought my D60 last year, so that I still have a camera that is suitable for drunken parties etc. where the bigger, heavier, MORE EXPENSIVE D60 (now a 10D) is simply impracticle.

I still use my G2 a lot and - when I'm travelling with the two cameras - it is a real bonus that many of my accessories (batteries, flashguns, memory cards, tripod) are suitable for both cameras. One bag of kit "does all".

[Mark Kemp]

A 10D is a complex camera for a beginner, but as long as you are reasonably happy with technology you should be OK to start in fully automatic mode and then learn to take more control.

You could buy a cheaper 'point and shoot' camera to start with and then progress to a digital SLR, but most DSLRs have fully automatic modes so that they handle like a 'point and shoot' anyway. I know a lot of very good photographers who started out with a film SLR to learn photography, and a DSLR is not much more complex.

The pics may not be 'technically perfect', but as a beginner anyway you will probably be happy enough with them. You can learn the complexities as you progress. [I will let you into a secret, very few pictures are technically perfect, the experienced photographers just learn to throw the bad ones away!]

Join a local camera club or a take a course. Other photographers are usually willing to help.

Also read a lot of books and magazines and go out and take pictures, lots of pictures, especially if you get a digital, like a 10D. Try to remember what you did so that you can learn what works and what doesn't

A big plus for a digital is that if the pics aren't what you wanted, you can always erase them and then try to learn how to improve next time. The turn around time is much quicker as you don't have to wait to get the prints back from the processor.

[Andy_T]

Hi Mark,

I agree with what you say about learning.

However, I advise the G3 because it is not 'just a simple point-and-click' camera, like a Kodak or Sony (or Canon Digital Ixus) offering you only Panorama, Sports and Macro mode and JPEG saving.

Rather, the G3/G5 has exactly the same programs and nearly all functions that the D10 also offers, minus SLR, minus exchangeable lenses, and limited shutter speed.

Compared to the S45/S50 (which are also not 'point-and-clicks' in that respect), it offers a flash shoe and the possibility to use conversion lenses.

So it will prepare you nicely for your ascent to the D10. And If that doesn't convince you, take a look at Don Ellis' remarkable site http://www.kleptography.com, that features some really remarkable photos - taken with G1 and G2.

This site clearly proves the old saying 'The limitation of most cameras is the person holding it"... Certainly holds true for my G2 :)

Regards,
Andy

P.S.:

[pwagner]

I'm a digicam vetran (Minolta Dimage 7i) and got a 10D last month. Wow! THE 10D IS NOT A TOY. (It's a REAL camera!) That's a great thing if you are ready and willing to really learn about photography.

Here are my words of wisdom (I'm sure other posters will pitch in with corrections and alternate suggestions in a constructive and friendly way ;-) ....

(1) Visit dpreview.com and read the reviews of various cameras. You should at least read about the Canon 10D (of course); but perhaps should read the reviews of less expensive high-end "consumer" cameras such as the Sony DSC-F717, Minolta Dimage 7i, Nikon Coolpix 5700, various Canon G's. Those cameras might make a great trial camera for a year.

(2) Don't underestimate the total cost of the Canon 10D. It's silly to buy a $1500 camera and a $300 lens. In reality, the 10D is at least a $3000 camera purchase when you get a basic compliment of lenses and other accessories.

(3) The 10D doesn't come with ANY storage card! That means you MUST buy a "CompactFlash Type 1" card. Like with lenses, this is something you shouldn't skimp on. (Fortunately, with eBay and other internet shops, you don't have to spend too much.) Don't even bother with a CF card smaller than 256 MB. "High speed" is probably a good idea too. Go to eBay.com and enter a search for "compactflash lexar 24x"--I'm not partial to Lexar and 24x speed isn't required, but this is a good basic starting point. I own a pair of 256 MB cards and am considering buying a 512 card as well. I would *NOT* recommend a "microdrive"--they are bascally tiny hard disk drives and aren't much less expensive for the capacity but drain the batteries and aren't nearly as durable as CF memory cards.

(4) A CF Card Reader (that uses USB 2) is nice. This lets you take the card out of the camera and put it in the Card Reader to get it to your computer. The 10D only uses the "slow" USB speed. A card reader should only cost about $35. If you get a USB 2 card reader AND have a USB 2 computer AND have a USB 2 capable operating system AND have a "high speed" CF card, you can enjoy very fast transfers of the pictures to your computer; if ANY of the conditions is missed, the speed will be a bit slower. The speed difference to download a 256 MB card is probably about 3 minutes verses 1 minute.

(5) You're going to want a camera bag at some point. Perhaps you could wait on this for a while until you figure out how many lenses you are going to want to carry around.

(6) Lenses! Lenses are the ONLY difficult decision. There are lots of lenses, they range in price from $75 to $7500, you need several (that's the whole point of getting an interchangeable lens camera), and if you buy junky ones at first you then need to jettison them when you desire better lenses. There's a very active dpreivew.com forum dedicated just to Canon lenses!

(7) I've beend getting by on a single battery. I've ordered a second (eBay, non-brand-name) for my upcoming weekend shooting trip. I find that my 10D goes at least 200 pictures on a single charge. (I don't use flash, but the 100-400 L IS USM is a whopping big lens whose autofocus and image stabilizer put a more-than-average drain on the battery.)

(8) Remember the 10D's "1.6x crop factor" when choosing lenses. Basically, a 50mm lens will give you a field of view (magnification) of 50mm * 1.6 = 80mm.


Lens selection is a post all by itelf, but I'll put in my two cents here. Lens selection has a lot to do with your budget and your intended use of the camera. However, if I had to recommend a single, general purpose, "first" lens for the 10D, it would be the Canon 28-135 IS USM lens. At $400, you won't break the bank. It offers a great effective 45 - 216mm zoom range (the 10D multiplies every focal point by 1.6x). It will give you a feel for Canon's Image Stabilization ("IS") system. It will give you a feel for Canon's Ultra Sonic Motor ("USM") focus mechanics. It's fairly light and not too unwieldy in size. It has some macro capability, so you can get a feel for that kind of photography without actually spending money.

Item (6) inevitably leads to the fabled "L glass" lenses. Canon marks its "very high end" lenses with an "L". I bought my camera with the 28-135 IS USM and the 100-400 L IS USM lenses. (Notice the "L" in the 100-400 label.) The 100-400 "L" costs $1350 (yikes!). But here's the thing: the "L" is on my 10D about 80% of the time! Build quality, focus speed, and great images mean that the "L" is simply much more fun to use. (Plus, at 18 inches in length, it's a great attention getting device.)

OK, I've talked your ear off!

-- Peter

[Morden]

(3) The 10D doesn't come with ANY storage card! That means you MUST buy a "CompactFlash Type 1" card.
Compact Flash type 2 - and Microdrives - also work perfectly in the 10D. Since it supports the FAT32 file system, it even supports cards with capacities larger than 2 Gigabytes, though they are (for me) prohibitively expensive!

[Bobman]

Wow! Thank you for giving me so much informations of 10D. Like some of you guys here mentioned, I would go for G5 to try out for 3-6 months and hopefully by that time 10D price may drop................

:)

[Andy_T]

Hi Bobman,

you're not going to regret that.

Nevertheless, go with a large CF card (at least 512 MB) and some extra batteries. If you shoot raw (and that's the way to go) you'll get about 120 shots on a 512 MB card. I have the 1GB Microdrive (350 shots on the G2 with 4 MP) and find it limiting sometimes, if I can't transfer the images to the PC for some days.

Another useful extra is a lens adapter (preferrably lensmate) to mount at least a skylight/polarizing filter in order to avoid damage to the camera if you drop it.

The adapter also allows you to use filters and adapter lenses (although you can't use these if you upgrade to the Canon D10) Lensmate offers two sizes, 52 mm and 58 mm. 52 mm tends to block the viewfinder and internal flash less than the 58 mm. I also think that 52 mm filters are cheaper than their 58 mm counterparts.

However, I don't know whether Canon lenses rather have 52 or 58 mm filter threads (in order to reuse the filters) - maybe someone could comment on that?

Regards,
Andy

[Belmondo]

Although I'm really not new to photography (at my age, I'm not new to anything), my level of ability is probably barely above the 'novice' level. Still, I think the 10D is a great camera, even for a total beginner. In the fully automatic mode, it's a great 'point and shoot' camera, yet over time as you explore the different capabilities of the system, you'll grow in your own abilities. I'm sure there are professionals who will never fully challenge the capabilities of the 10D, while there are countless amateurs and 'newbies' taking very fine photographs with it.

As stated be any earlier poster, the G3 and G5 are also great cameras, but eventually, you'll find yourself limited by the optics.

Whatever you do, you're going to have a wonderful time. Enjoy

[msvirick]

I would say I fall in this category too. I am reasonably informed about basic photography, but I feel I am doing quite well with the automatic feaures of the 10D. I will in time go to T and A modes and prehaps even add external lighting in time.
My time now seem to be wasted in learning photoshop. If you have a 10D you need to know Photoshop or Elements well.
But with fellowship of people like you in this forum, I am doing quite well.
Thanks

[Bobman]

Wow! Never realised I was absent for about 3 years.

[ogbyte]

hehe - this thread completely thru me for a bit - until i read the posting date of the first message :)

Give us an update Bobman, what have you been upto, what you got now, still the 10d??

regards
Gary

[Bobman]

No more, now I am using a 5D and 1N. Still in favour of film. I am into wedding photography cos need to earn some money for this damn expensive hobby :)

[ogbyte]

Very nice kit. It good to see what happens over a long period of time like this.

Hehe - i'm beginning to get the picture re Expensive Hobby, just looking at upgrading to my first DSLR and my spending figure keeps rising - not actually bought anything yet, can't make my mind up as to what to get, and to wether i'll use it enough to justify it.

Gary

[Bobman]

Well, no choice to get 5D if need to get into biz. But I still like my film body, never go obselete.

[TomHuckWa]

10D is great 20D is greater. Dont be afraid of a used camera, most of them have very little use, and can be had very reasonably. If anything goes wrong Canon can repair them. Shutters on 20d rated for 50,000 actuations. That is a lot of pictures. Buy good quality lenses. Enjoy.