Tools or Toys?

[JaertX]

So here's my deal: I work a full time job and I shoot portraits and events on the side. I've been getting a lot more requests for work so I guess people are pretty pleased with the product I deliver. I've shot a few weddings alongside a pro, but so far I've turned down all the requests for me to shoot one because I don't feel I can rely on my equipment. So my wife and I have talked about it and agreed that I should buy another body, another flash, a few more lenses and a some other odds and ends to get myself adequately backed-up.

And here's the problem: I'm pretty well decided on what equipment I'm going to buy (probably a 1dmkII and use my 20D as a backup, add a 580ex, get the 24-70mm f/2.8L and the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS L.) All of that is equipment I know will be useful to make images that I can sell. But there are a few other things I'd "like" to buy that I "think" I could use to make some cool photographs and probably sell them as well.

So how do you guys who do this as a true business decide what is a toy and what is a tool of the trade? Just as an example, (and a trivial one, I realize) is a lensbaby. I think a few images at a wedding made with it would make an interesting addition to the whole album, but I don't "know" that for sure. There is a lot of cool lenses that I would like to buy (a nice macro would be cool), but I'm to the point that I really need to use my brain and look at this from a business standpoint as well. What do you do?

[brivett]

In my experience... A good photographer could shoot a wedding well with a 350D and the kit lens.... until you hit a certain level it is soooo not about the equipment. Don't get bogged down in a shopping list when you could be out learning and practicing.... and certainly don't do gimmicky shots until you have mastered the art of good basic wedding photography (I havn't)

[chtgrubbs]

If you use it enough on paying gigs for it to pay for itself, it's a tool. If you just use it for a few shots which won't sell, then it's a toy.

[JaertX]

thanks guys!

So far I have been mentoring with a fairly high-end photographer, so I haven't been exposed to someone shooting a wedding with beginner equipment...other than myself! She likes to put a few "unique" shots in her photoalbums...pj style and fisheye shots...not too many so as to be distracting, but enough to add interest to the whole "flow" of the album. And her work is incredible...so I'm lucky to get to study under someone like that.

Anyway, I wanted to get some opinions on here as well. Thanks again!

[lostdoggy]

Just remember: "...he who dies with the most toys wins..."

[JaertX]

Okay, maybe I should have been more specific with what I think I need and what I'll be doing:

The two main things I'm wanting to get are lighting and a few lenses.

I think all I really need to get for now is a good, two-light setup. I was thinking about going with the Photogenic Solaires. I have a third light already that I could use with grids for either a hair or background light. I might have the opportunity to do quite a bit of copy work for artists this summer and it seems like it would be a good idea to get lighting that is pretty consistent color temperature wise since I will probably shoot slides a lot of the time. My Alien Bee varies from 4700 to 6100 degrees Kelvin from the lowest to the highest power setting and I can't imagine that it would work at all. But, I might not be doing that much copy work and maybe some lower-end lighting that would be much cheaper might work for portrait work.

As far as lenses go, I really think I want to buy fixed focal length lenses. I could get the 24-70mm f/2.8L and a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM and I know they would work great for weddings and portraits, but I think I would rather get some nice L primes instead. I'm thinking a 24mm, a 100mm (macro, non-L - I know) and a 200mm. I already have a 50mm and an 85mm, so I think that would round me out really well. Is it just crazy to get those? I've read about a few high-end pros that shoot primes exclusively, so it's certainly possible to do it. If my work on the side goes the way it has, I'll be able to buy a second camera body at the end of the year, so I know I'll be switching lenses a lot until then, but I'm pretty certain I'll be much happier with the image quality. Money wise, I'll be spending the same either way. I just wonder if it's dumb for me to buy primes instead of zooms at first. (the zoom I have now is going to be a paperweight once I have it replaced!!)

Again...opinions on this are greatly appreciated!

[Jackal]

They're tools for me but when you're expecting something new, like a 30D, they feel like toys when it's christmas. :)

Just remember: "...he who dies with the most toys wins..."

Who's winning so far right now? Dante? Who's that other guy with every single L lense ever made? Forgot his name :(

[lostdoggy]

Yup I think I know who you talkin' about but I think he don't have the 1200mmL yet

[DocFrankenstein]

My Alien Bee varies from 4700 to 6100 degrees Kelvin from the lowest to the highest power setting and I can't imagine that it would work at all.
You have no idea how glad I was to read that statement. :D

BTT: It's a question of balance and you have to decide for youself. "love" for photography is one thing. Business is the other.

It's convenient to think another gizmo will bring more cash, but it might be just an effect of advertising propaganda.

Once I think of a product which is sane to manufacture, I'll stick the cliche slogan:
"unleash your creativity with DocF's new super gizmo" "imagine the possibilities!" "increase your cashflow" "boost your business" and of course "enlarge your sexual performance and make your wife happy"

Just pay me for it, you dumb@$$ ;)

[magmac21]

Coming from someone who has just bought the 24mm 1.4 they are definitely tools. As far as I can see you have to invest in good equipment to get the quality. Not that it means that if you have thousands of pounds of equipment you are a good photographer....

[Nidz]

Well from my own wedding and seeing others I would agree with what others have said. It takes real skill to pull off these shots and the equipment isn't always the make or break of your shots. Having a professional nearby would be more important than purchasing more lesnes and so on. I'm sure they will tell you that. Get your technique down and the rest will fall into place. Good luck!

[lostdoggy]

It is either you got it or you don't and all the equipment means got if you don't have the eyes to do it. I know I don't have the got for it.

[JaertX]

Thanks all for the advice.

The two weddings that I have worked at so far have turned out okay. At the second, I took a little over 600 pictures and I kept about 150 of them. (I was there apprenticing with a pro...so she had plenty of her own, useable shots) Looking at the exif data on a lot of the culled shots was pretty embarassing...a lot of the bad shots were pure user error. So I have a lot to learn still. I think I'm due for some equipment upgrades, but I'll keep it reasonable to make sure I'm not in over my head.

I have two weddings scheduled this summer for couples who couldn't get a professional booked and asked me to shoot them...both of them understand my experience level and have appropriate expectations. Still, I think a few upgrades would increase my confidence, at the very least! ;)

Oh, and of course the necessary equipment backups. Sheesh...this is an expensive business to break in to!

Anyway...thanks again for all the input!

[tim]

Mostly I consider my gear tools to help me make great images. I bought my first 300D as a toy, traded it for a 20D as a half toy/half tool, and got me 2nd 20D as a tool. My 70-200 F2.8 IS was an expensive toy that has turned into a tool. The 50mm F1.4 is a tool, the macro lens is a toy, and the 30mm F1.4 that I want would be a tool. Strobes half toy/half tool.

I wouldn't bother with mains strobes for weddings, they take too long to set up unless you have an assistant. I rarely use mine, but when I do they do a great job (AB 800s).

I think a 1D series camera would be a good asset for wedding photography, with all the low light, it's on my "wish list", but for now the 20Ds are doing well for me.

PS lose the nifty fity, they're crap, not good enough for professional work. I'd rather have the Sigma 30mm F1.4, but I have the Canon 50mm F1.4 which is a lot better than the 50 1.8.

[aliflack]

I think all I really need to get for now is a good, two-light setup. I was thinking about going with the Photogenic Solaires. I have a third light already that I could use with grids for either a hair or background light. I might have the opportunity to do quite a bit of copy work for artists this summer and it seems like it would be a good idea to get lighting that is pretty consistent color temperature wise since I will probably shoot slides a lot of the time.

As far as lenses go, I really think I want to buy fixed focal length lenses. I could get the 24-70mm f/2.8L and a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM and I know they would work great for weddings and portraits, but I think I would rather get some nice L primes instead. I'm thinking a 24mm, a 100mm (macro, non-L - I know) and a 200mm. I'll be able to buy a second camera body at the end of the year, so I know I'll be switching lenses a lot until then, but I'm pretty certain I'll be much happier with the image quality.

Okay, my initial thinking is that going for primes doesn't make any sense when doing wedding photography - when you say you know you'll be switching lenses a lot, but you'll be happier with the IQ, have you considered how happy your customers will be with slightly better IQ (compare to L zoom) compared to how pi$$ed they'll be for you missing shots cos you were swapping lens at the exact moment uncle joe fell into the cake??

On the lighting front - are you buying lights for the actual event photography, or for studio based work? If its purely for the former, I would strongly suggest learning how to use a single flash well before taking on the extra hassle of bringing/setting up/adjusting/using studio lights...

But again, it all boils down to what your customer wants - if they want is 6x4 candids with you being unobtrusive as possible, that dictates what equipment you need (fast telezooms or long primes, not a high res body). If they just want formals, then you won't need the added flexibility of primes (but will they appreciate the better IQ?)

In my experience, what non-photos really look for in pictures is the emotion, the composition, that all the relatives look nice in their fancy clothes. They wouldn't recognise quality bokeh if it bit their behind.

Food for thought?

[Croasdail]

Just kinda wondering - for weddings, why a mk II instead of a 5d? 8+ fps is mostly useless in most churches and ballrooms since you will most likely be using additional lighting. And I would think going full frame would add more depth and variety to the types of shots you can obtain. I am not asking with an agenda here... just thinking out loud.

[JaertX]

Food for thought?

Yes it is...very good points. I spoke with a pretty well seasoned pro on the phone today that only uses zooms at weddings who thought I should do the same, at least to start with. As I learn more and get better (and have more available finances), maybe have a third body with a prime on it when I see those great shots that would benefit from the increased IQ. I seriously doubt my target group will see the difference, for now. And you're very right, missing shots is something I really can't afford to do too much of. I like the idea of using only primes, but that's something I can grow in to someday.

As far as lighting...I'm only looking at things for studio work right now. Maybe drag one or two lights along to a wedding occasionally, but I doubt that will happen much.

Thanks so much for your input!

[JaertX]

Just kinda wondering - for weddings, why a mk II instead of a 5d? 8+ fps is mostly useless in most churches and ballrooms since you will most likely be using additional lighting. And I would think going full frame would add more depth and variety to the types of shots you can obtain. I am not asking with an agenda here... just thinking out loud.

I completely agree with you. I want to mkII for a "toy." The 5D is the smarter camera for me to buy. Well, unless I had an extra $4k laying around to get the 1Ds! (donations anyone? heh heh.

No really...in the last few days of reading about both cameras, the 5D seems the direction I should go. I'm still commiting myself to waiting until I'm really sure that's how I want to spend my money, but it probably will be:

5D
24-70mm f/2.8L
70-200mm f/2.8L w/IS
580EX (still use the 420EX on my 20D as a backup)
Lightsphere PJ for the 580
and buy another 4GB of memory...will be a total of 8. for now.

Studio wise, B&H has a kit with two Photogenic Solaires that are 500w/s each. Use my Alien Bee B800 as a hair light or background light for awhile and see how that works. And a few other odds and ends.

Doesn't really seem like too much of a plunge for what work I've done in the past. I have a few things scheduled and I've turned down some work that I'll try to get back if they haven't booked anyone. The equipment above seems to be all reasonable and will be used for work that I can do and will do.

Still would like to get a nice macro...but I guess that would be a toy! heh.

[tim]

I'd like a 1 series for the better AF.

[subtle_spectre]

1DMkIIN=8.5 fps; huge buffer; dual media slots can be used for "back-up" image files; top-line AF; built like tank. Images out of camera are dead on, ready for printing (at least using "styles").

I did the 5D/1D debate, for a short time...for all around shooting, including weddings and portraits, unbeatable imo.

[JaertX]

From what I've read on here, I get the impression the general consensus is the 5D has overall better picture quality than the 1D.

Maybe I'm not considering something, but quicker AF and the fps of the 1 series doesn't seem that important for weddings or portraiture. The pro I've been mentoring with uses a Fuji S3 pro, and both the 20D I currently own and the 5D I will probably buy smoke that camera in specs (fps, AF speed maybe, and high iso noise). Um...the user will have a lot of catching up to do though! lol.

I was considering switching over to that platform, but I like my Canon and don't see a reason to switch just yet. Still, using the S3 is pretty cool and images from it are really incredible. I've used it at weddings with a Nikon fisheye, the Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 and the 70-200mm f/2.8 with VR. From what I've seen, the 5D with the combo I want should do everything I want and if I learn well, be better equipment than I'm used to borrowing. I figure the 1 series is a leap year ahead of that.

[Atomic79]

My feeling is that, as a professional, even if you enjoy your profession enough that it's also a hobby. Such that for income you shoot weddings, products, portraits whatever and you go out and shoot birds, or waterfalls for leisure. As such you buy a long L lens mostly for birding it is also a tool that you may use in your professional life.

I wouldn't classify anything that could be used in your profession a toy, if you're a framing carpenter and you also enjoy carving for instance and you buy a "Dremel", just because you don't use it every day in your profession. Who's to say you couldn't so it's tool.

Also if you classify everything as a tool....the IRS will let you write it off :)

[JaertX]

Also if you classify everything as a tool....the IRS will let you write it off :)

And that's very important to keep in mind too! It is cool that I'm going to get to start writing all this stuff off now.

The only problem is, my wife/business partner is smarter than the IRS....but that is a whole other thread. lol.

[mspringfield]

It all depends on who I'm talking to. To my photographer friends they are "toys". To the wife, insurance company and IRS they are "tools". :lol: