Let the nightmares begin....

[Radtech1]

All,

The image is powerful enough as is. It is less than one hour old. Having been on the receiving end of cataclysmic personal trauma, I know first hand what the families are going to face.

Perhaps that it why it is such a strong image to me. [- side note, is the image powerful ONLY to me, that my experience magnifies it?]

What you see is untouched, other than minified by 50% each dimension. The question is, what to do now? Crop? Sharpen? Blur the background? Color issues?

Radtech1

http://users.adelphia.net/~radtech1/Photos/NightmareSS.jpg (http://users.adelphia.net/~radtech1/Photos/NightmareS.jpg)
Click for a 1024x1536

[BCdives]

Dear God, Rad, is it what I think or was it staged? That is stirring there is no doubt. I can't offer much on the technical end, but I can tell you at first glance you can't really tell whats going on, then when you see the bicycle your heart stops. What was the outcome of events of this photo?

[CyberDyneSystems]

My heart has definately missed a few beats :(

That is indeed a scary photo.

[ryuwulf]

[Radtech1]

Bcdives,

It was not staged. I took the day off today and was running some errands. On my way home (literally across the street from this), I drove past. Cops, spectators, a man being talked to, but god, the slam in the chest that I felt when I saw the mangled bike.

I ran in the house and got my camera. I was only able to get a couple images, as the cops were looking very disaproovingly at me. I wanted to get everything out - people, etc - except the two vehicles.

What the outcome is, I have no idea. I can only hope that there is no empty dinner plate somewhere.

Radtech1

[BCdives]

I wonder if the kid on the bike was yapping on a cell phone paying no attention, completely engulfed in their own little self-indulgent world............I doubt it............WAKE UP PEOPLE!

There are others who have life's, and are busy, in a hurry, and aspire to do great things, and live their lifes, like I'm sure the kid on the bike does... hopefully not DID! (past tense)

As disturbing as the photo is Radtech, perhaps your diligence to take the photo will knock some sense into a few people and remind all of us, that we a piloting 4,000lb pieces of metal, no match for a small child on a bicycle.............NO EXCUSE!

Hang up the phone, drink when you get home, and remember this world is not yours alone!

Peace,

BC

[Mark Kemp]

What do you plan to do with this photo now?

Unless you are a journalist, reporting the accident or you plan to give it to a road safety campaign, what could you possibly do with it?

Its not 'commercial' and would you want to make money from it anyway?

Similarly in a gallery, salon or competition it could get thrown out on 'taste' grounds or it equally could do well because of the impact it has. But once again how would you feel if you were being 'rewarded' partly because of someone else's tragedy?

It is not even going to be something you look at personally very often, certainly not 'happy memories'

I can understand why you took it, I think, but I can also understand why the cops were 'looking at you'

[ryuwulf]

Photos like these depend on the individual

i passed by a hit and run death while driving home. it was probably not more than 10 minutes old and the body was still on the street. I immediately reached for my camera, but i hesitated and decided not to. I had plenty of time to take the shot. Besides what was i going to use it for??

I just comes down to what you are trying to accomplish.

This picture really doesnt do anything for me, but i commend your on the spot reaction.

my only suggestion if you are to take these type of pics would be to take pictures of the expressions of the people there. Images of that type of emotion are powerful, look at Time magazine. The emotion on their faces.
this of course leads you down the path of being disrespectful to their privacy, and their loss.

such is the life of a documentary photographer.

[Stoneh]

judging by the subject I find this picture disturbing and you are asking how to improve it by cropping, sharpening etc..

We should respect and show dignity given the events that have occured.

Sorry Rad... I hope you dont take any offence.


Stoneh

[TimNYC24]

I don't care if you do take offense, this phot and you belong on Springer. Get some friggin moral values, would you?
If you were a journalst,ok. You're not, so in this case it's just plain wrong/sick/demented/out of place.
And you're asking how to improve the photo?
Try asking how to improve your judgement instead.

[Radtech1]

TimNYC24 wrote:
I don't care if you do take offense, this phot and you belong on Springer. Get some friggin moral values, would you?
If you were a journalst,ok. You're not, so in this case it's just plain wrong/sick/demented/out of place.
And you're asking how to improve the photo?
Try asking how to improve your judgement instead.



No offense taken, because, quite frankly your opinion would have to *matter* to me for me to take offense. But you do raise my interest to the point of curiosity. WHY do you become so indignant. What is it about the photo that brings you down to name calling (you belong on Springer - wrong/sick/demented - improve your judgement)? [Or, are you *actually* a juvenile, in which case name calling would fit.] Why the outrage?

There is no denying that the photo is disturbing. It unnerves ME and I took it. When I look at it the emotional responses that I have are:

1) Anguish - this fallen bike represents a fallen child. An empty plate at dinner, a hug never again to be given, a hole that will never be filled. This is gut wrenching stuff, but it is life - part of the human experience.

2) Terror - What was this kids last thought? He was obviously proud of his bike as you can tell it was meticulously customized. Here he was just riding home from the mall when WHAM - some moron in an SUV plows over him. Was there time to think, or was is over before it happened.

3) Anger - WHY wasn't that guy paying attention? I know these bikes, they are beautiful, but they are not quick. This kid *could not have* darted out in front of the SUV. No - the SUV driver was totally self-absorbed - looking to the left to see what might hit him, without giving a thought to his right and who he is going to run over.

4) Bewilderment - This happened in an instant. It will last forever. I did not choose the thread title ["Let the nightmares begin..."] lightly, because that is exactly what happened.

And those are just the surface feelings.

Yes, it is a disturbing image, but, I've got some bad news for you, sunshine, life isnt peaches and cream. Stuff like this happens. We can close out eyes and pretend that it does not. Or, we can summon the courage to look into ourselves when it does. Or you can name call and judge and ride a high horse. ["Get some friggin moral values, would you?"]

Fire can bring light or heat. You seem only interested in the heat. Try some light this time. Take a look again and TRY to experience something. That is the magic of photography, to share with someone something that is outside of his experience. Feel the sudden loss of someone you love. How would that touch you? Or would it? Then tell me again why I have no morals?

And TRY to answer intelligently.

Radtech1

[CyberDyneSystems]

I do not mean to pick a fight here with anyone..

But I fell I must jump to Radtech's defense. (not that he needs ,. your response is perfectly eloquent)

But I think the three of you have completely misinterpreted both intentions, and in my mind more importantly,. actual subject content.

Radtech did not take a photo of a corpse,. he did not intrude on personal expressions of greif or horror or anger by "sniping" at the victim or anyone else involved.
No ones privacy has been violated.

What he managed to do was with a sublime economy of imagerey depict in entirety an in your face example of the repercussions of an arrogant self involved society.

(understand that I am tredding dangerously as I am letting my personal and political feelings about SUVs and fossil fuels and self-indulgant babyboomers on Cell phones shine through)

This image is practically antiseptic in its purity.
As someone else immediately said,. so much so that it looks staged. He could not have come up with a cleaner image if he did stage it,. nor one more to the point.

Radtech.

I commend you on both your where with all in taking the photo in the first place,. as well as the perfect way that you captured the impact and importance of the event. Please do submit this to MADD,.. your state police dept,. etc.

CDS

[ryuwulf]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:


But I think the three of you have completely misinterpreted both intentions, and in my mind more importantly,. actual subject content.





Who is the third???

[Stoneh]

Rad,

"The question is, what to do now? Crop? Sharpen? Blur the background? Color issues?"

its that bit which rattled me a bit, as if you are trying to glorify the event, esp when you consider a child might have/has been killed.

I guess that is my opinion.

Peace.

[new girl on the bloc]

i guess that my question would be what is the purpose of this photograph. if it is a tool to teach then i feel that it has a purpose. i cannot even imagine photographing something of this nature for any other reason. it is when something tragic becomes sensationalized that it is unethical.

there may be many reasons why the accident occured but the ultimate one is because someone (either the driver or the bicyclist) was not in the moment. in ram das's book "be here now" he talks about the importance of being in the present, to drive if we are driving, with our full attention on that activity.

this is how accidents happen, because our attention is drawn away from what is happening right here, right now. and we're not truly living if we are stuck in the past or anticipating the future and in some cases, not being in the present may bring death to our door.

[simmonsrandal]

Radtech1

Interesting pic.

Life is more than flowers, mountains and smiling faces and pictures should reflect that.

RS

[simmonsrandal]

[b]
If you were a journalst,ok. You're not, so in this case it's just plain wrong/sick/demented/out of place.



I disagree with you completely. Some of the most "telling" pics I saw of 9/11 were from amateur photographers. I don think what they were doing was wrong, it was capturing real life. You shouldnt have to be a journalist to get take real pictures.

[stopbath]

Thank you for posting your picture.

I really enjoy the way the photo is devoid of people. We can feel the hollow silence.

Our hearts break when we see pictures like this. And they should.

Every shot is worth a thousand words, but some open up the heart.

----

Actually, this photo could stand a bit of treatment to boost the turns the brain does when looking at this.

Perhaps everything but the bike could be modified by lowering/raising the contrast, colour shift, black and white, blur, deepen lighten the colours, smudging...

[TSORoanoke]

Many of the posts so far have assumed that a child was hurt (maybe the bicycle was left in the street and the rider was home?). Many have assumed that the driver of the vehicle was on a cell phone (maybe not). Its clear that this wasn't staged, but lets all be careful about making assumptions about the intentions of the subjects of a photograph that we don't know or understand. Certainly, if we are to criticize, lets do it constructively, so others can learn.

This is a powerful image that creates many different feelings in each individual viewing it. Not all photos have a purpose. My opinion is that this person was strongly moved by what they saw, saw a way to convey the same powerful emotion, and did so.

Technically, some cropping down to just the front end and the bicycle would drive home the point more clearly to me. However, when strong emotion is involved, personal opinion is the only thing that counts provided that social standards of the time and locale are not violated (usually).

Hats off to you for quick thinking, respect for the witnesses and victim and driver, and for sharing your emotional photo.

[CyberDyneSystems]

TSORoanoke wrote:
...Many have assumed that the driver of the vehicle was on a cell phone (maybe not). Its clear that this wasn't staged, but lets all be careful about making assumptions about the intentions of the subjects of a photograph that we don't know or understand.


er,.. what?

Is this the final frontier of the politically correct inposition into our lives,. that we can not even bad mouth people who drive there SUVs into others while they gab on the phone?

Please!

In the case of this image it makes no difference what actually happen (other than god forbid a child was injured)

The image speaks for itself. And it speaks differently to different people. If I see an over self-indulgent baby boomer piloting a 6,000 pound vehicle through the suburbs not looking where he or she is going.. that is that. There is no need to be carefull about assumptions,. because it is not about facts. This is not a news item, and I the viewer am not telling a story.

I am getting out of the image what I see.

That is the power of any image.

Others may if they choose to see a hard working honest republican citiezen on his way to work to raise his family that was interupted by some punk kid that wasn't paying attention when riding across the street.

It's all up to us what we make of it.

Images can be deciving,. that is there nature.

[cA70]

There's one simple anser to this question, its a _______________ (line)

Where do you draw the line?

There is always 2 sides to a story, in this case what purpose does that picture serve and how is a picture offensive.

Everyone on this forum has a different opinion to the parents of the person on that bike i'm sure of, no emotional attachment.

If it was someone reversing into another car in a car park and just made a dint, i'm sure we all would of just laughed. But if it was a major death, and the people were still on the scence, i'm sure it would be moraly wrong to take the picture.

So wheres the line, did this photo cross it? and i know now that your never gonna reach that answer that everyone agrees to.

But what startled me was thinking out what you see on the news every day, pretty much stories like that and worse? If thats the type of stuff that is on TV then why do so many people watch it? Why does everyone slow down at an accident to look, and how does that differ from taking a picture, people could easily drive straight past as leaving the cap on your camera.

Just my thoughts.

[Radtech1]

Wow,

438 views. I never imagined that there would be such a response.

In any event, the following in an excerpt from my "Seattle - 11 images" post.

And finally, the next morning the reason for the trip. The unveiling of the memorial. On March 8, 2001 my father, my mother, my nephew and his fiancé were murdered in their home in Seattle. To all those who questioned my moral propriety for taking the SUV/ bike photo, walk an *inch* in my shoes before you talk to me about moral invasions. I KNOW what it is like to get that phone call - do you? Trust me, if the kid died (which he did not) the parents would thank me for that photo. There is the need to know “how”. Not morbid, not ghoulish, just “what happened.” That was the “point” of that photo.


http://users.adelphia.net/~radtech1/Photos/Seattle/MemorialS.jpg (http://users.adelphia.net/~radtech1/Photos/Seattle/Memorial1.jpg)

Radtech

PS. STILL waiting for an intelligent response from TimNYC24

-

[cA70]

Dont take this as a smart ass comment but if that was the "point" of the photo, will you be showing the parents?

I'm sure the police would of had there photographers take photos of the scene (guessing) and that would be accessable by the parents, as for someone driving by, different story.

Its not breaking any set rules to take that photo, but was it needed is another question.

[stopbath]

At the time of the accident, no body cares where the bike was, what the truck did, or anything else except getting the kid looked after. Only after the dust settles do the questions of "what happened" do they perk to the top.

Perhaps not every accident has a photog working it under hire by the police. Most shots would be of the markings on the pavement, a few general shots. Not likely anything as good as this shot. The ambience of this shot is good. Police shots are clinical by the very nature of who is paying for the shots.

Some folks said this shot should have never been recorded. I don't follow this? Why should we pretend it never happened? What then are we willing to ignore? A girl running down the street after her village was napalmed. The terror, the evil, the innocence speaks volumes. A mother seal with her skinned pup? The vile reality of fur coats. A young child saluting his fathers casket? Lost childhood innocence. A squashed bike? The consequences of allowing accidents to happen. The world isn't all pictures of roses, and pretty little birds. It would have been a shame if this picture slipped by and wasn't recorded and shared.

[ajax]

I took my first photography class in college [which was more years ago than I care to mention]. The instructor showed us many of his own photos...all black and white...most were gritty, urban scenes which caused my west-coast, small-town eyes to widen.

One photo in particular has stayed with me all these years. I'll spare the details--but while the photo itself wasn't graphic, the story that went with the photo was disturbing. At the time, I was troubled that the instructor had taken the photograph, but, the fact that 25 years later I can still remember that photo makes me realize what an impact it had.

Maybe that photo-journalist streak runs in a few of us; but not all. I think it's good to judge the photograph; and leave our judgements of the photographer out of the mix.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Ca70 wrote:


......Its not breaking any set rules to take that photo, but was it needed is another question.



I'm not jumping down your throat on this one Ca70,.. but,,.. WHAT???

When do photos NEED to be taken?

I spend hours and hours taking photos of little birdies!

I post thme on the net,. I print them,. some people look at them ,. others say,. "Why would you take pictures of birds?"

It's not like I have anything to offer anyone with yet another photo of a Blue Heron,.. I know I've seen much better than any I have taken.

I can't think of a single photo of the more than 25,000 I know I have taken in Digital in the last few years that "needed" to be taken.

....but then I took that photo of the kids killing a Swan n the park a few weeks back. Thanks to that photo they are in court and will hopefully get councilling...

But I digress,..

People in this country do not like to be reminded of horror or anything that is Bad.

After 9-11 there were so many people I knew that kept saying "oh I don't want to hear about it anymore,. I don't want to see the pictures,.. I don't want to be reminded"

Well I was 180 degrees from that. I saw the images,. I heard the stories,. and I cry evey time. But I do not want to be sheltered from it. I want to,. I NEED to know what happened,. I NEED to know that we understand what happend,. and why.

We are a society with blinders on,. we don't see how what WE do is killing this planet,. and by doing so, killing ourselves.

We need constant reminders,. and I for one do not see enough. It is too easy for us to ignore the impact of what we do to the world and ourselves.

Radtech,..
You know where I stand on this. Again I want to thank you for this photo. It makes me think and question.

What more you can anyone ask?

[jasenh7]

Interesting. For me photos are to serve one of many purposes. Whether for art or documentation or whatever. However some photos are for stirring up emotions and controversy. Your photo while not artisitcally interesting certainly seems to have nailed the emotion and controversy on the head due to the responses we see here. Good job on that.