How to shoot kids sports and not look like a perv?

[Wrench]

I plan on going out this spring when the weather breaks to practice shooting some sports. Just local stuff up at the parks and the High School. My fiance and her father are coaching a 12-14 yr old softball team and the opportunity to sell some shots to the parents may come up. I also want to head up to the local High School and shoot the lacrosse and softball/baseball games. How do I go about shooting the events without looking like a pedophile getting his jollies off of little kids? I'm not so much worried about the softball games as I am about the HS stuff, the parents will get used to me being there. Just looking for some pointers, tips, etiquette, etc. so I don't look like a pervert.

[Vision Eyez]

Well me being in highschool, personal I dont think I would notice and most parents usually are not around for highschool game it is simply other kids from the school. With this being said it may look like you are simply a parent or maybe a photographer someone hired. Looking like a pedophile should probably not be on your mind. If you are really that worried about it possible talk to the team coach of the home laccrosse team and tell him you just want to take some pictures Im sure he will be more then happy.

[vjack]

I would guess that this might be a good time to wear a photog vest and really try to look like a pro. I'd assume that this would lead people to perceive you as a photographer and not think about other possibilities.

[Radtech1]

To reinforce what others have said, look like a photographer. Make the game, not necessarily some particular player(s) your subject. That means stay with a particular game for the entire duration. Put another way, be obvious about shooting the game. Don't lurk. Don't move on too quickly from one field to another as that could be perceived as stalking - as hiding something.

Also, If anyone asks, chimp your shots for them. When doing so, refer to the PLAYER - not the person - and use gender neutral terms, ie, "This is a great shot showing this player taking the ball from that player." rather than, "This is a great shot showing the blonde girl and the little strawberry redhead."

Rad

[Wilt]

Make friends with the coach, offer a business card even if not photographically related, so you establish some traceability and credentials and an identity that can be sought by authorities (no crook or pedophile wants to be identifiable!!!), offer to take some shots the first time and provide 800x600 images to team members on CD with no charge (hey, making some CDs costs you a few bucks the first time, but that is an investment!), and then you can shoot all you want at later games and have the endorsement of the coach and team members about the fact that "oh, he's just a photographer, and he's here offering photos for sale!"

[Wilt]

>>Well me being in highschool, personal I dont think I would notice and most parents usually are not around for highschool game it is simply other kids from the school. With this being said it may look like you are simply a parent or maybe a photographer someone hired.<<

Unfortunately I HAVE heard stories about photographers being accused of being photographic voyeurs without any provocation or odd or elusive behavior so warrant suspicion! I have heard also story about photographer being confronted by female joggers about him shooting photos of their backsides, when in fact he was shooting macro photos of the flowers when the joggers happened to run past in the background! Way too much suspicion...yes, caution is warranted, but there is too much accusation in the world!

[cdifoto]

Just shoot the game and don't worry about it. If you think you look suspicious, you will look suspicious. If you're into the game then it'll be obvious you're shooting the game for the game.

Have a business card and photo ID handy just in case but otherwise don't sweat it too much. Be honest and up front if/when confronted, don't run and hide, and don't be shifty.

[Wrench]

Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions. I feel a little bit better now and will feel more comfortable. Look confident and professional but not sneaky or suspicious. Got it. Thanks again.

Wilt, those are just the type of encounters that I'm trying to avoid.

[DocFrankenstein]

I'd stay away.

The media is just dying to get their hands on another pedophilic maniacal perv. I don't want to be in THAT story.

[cdifoto]

I'd stay away.

The media is just dying to get their hands on another pedophilic maniacal perv. I don't want to be in THAT story.

Yeah. If you can't not be a perv then you should steer clear. :rolleyes:

[Wrench]

Yeah. If you can't not be a perv then you should steer clear. :rolleyes:

I agree 100%


However, the media has drilled into the publics head that everyone is a predator. That's what I'm afraid of; being grouped into that stereotype. I'm a male in my early 20's taking pictures of teen sports games. Very voyeur-esque and perverted in many people's minds. I'm willing to give it a shot though, and may just stay away from the girls teams for a while. I figure if I'm open and friendly with the people that they will understand what I'm doing there, and more importantly, what I'm NOT doing there. I'm going to make up some business cards with contact information to add to the professional appearance. I've already been in touch with the athletic director of the HS. I graduated from this school and knew him so it was pretty easy for me to get permission. It's the parents and spectators in the stand that I'm worried about.

[cdifoto]

I was being sarcastic to Doc's comment, hence the rolled eyes. I'm 24 and have shot quite a few high school athletics without issue. I was often welcomed there by the players and their coaches. Just take it seriously and it won't be a problem.

Approaching the coach(es) before the game might help...tell them you're new to sports photography (but not photography in general) and would like to know where the best angles might be to catch peak action. That's what I did for the first field hockey game I ever shot, as well as the cross country matches. I had no idea where to be and they were more than accommodating.

I agree 100%


However, the media has drilled into the publics head that everyone is a predator. That's what I'm afraid of; being grouped into that stereotype. I'm a male in my early 20's taking pictures of teen sports games. Very voyeur-esque and perverted in many people's minds. I'm willing to give it a shot though, and may just stay away from the girls teams for a while. I figure if I'm open and friendly with the people that they will understand what I'm doing there, and more importantly, what I'm NOT doing there. I'm going to make up some business cards with contact information to add to the professional appearance. I've already been in touch with the athletic director of the HS. I graduated from this school and knew him so it was pretty easy for me to get permission. It's the parents and spectators in the stand that I'm worried about.

[Wilt]

>> I'm willing to give it a shot though, and may just stay away from the girls teams for a while. <<

There is plenty of evidence and proof that pervs don't always look for the opposite gender!

[Vision Eyez]

lol Wilt stop trying to make it difficult on him. ;)

[Wilt]

Vision Eyez, I was only making the point about acting suitably regardless of the gender of the team, as suspicions are not gender specific!

[Jackal]

My friend and I were bored one night and we decided to goto this soccer field near his house to shoot a game we saw was going on. When we got there we noticed it was a young girls soccer team. We also thought it would be weird to sit there and take pictures but no one cared.

Someone who was walking by said: "Look, they're from the newspaper."

:\

On a side note....

The 50mm 1.4 can shoot a night soccer game at ISO 1600 under very poor field lights and still freeze action. Incredible.



Unfortunately I HAVE heard stories about photographers being accused of being photographic voyeurs without any provocation or odd or elusive behavior so warrant suspicion! I have heard also story about photographer being confronted by female joggers about him shooting photos of their backsides, when in fact he was shooting macro photos of the flowers when the joggers happened to run past in the background! Way too much suspicion...yes, caution is warranted, but there is too much accusation in the world!

Funny you say this.

I was bored and I was in my backyard looking for something interesting to shoot. I see this pretty red flower on the bush that lines my chain link fence. I get up close to it with my 50mm 1.4 and I'm going to take the shot when I notice that someone is standing at my neighbor's window looking at me....and I'm aiming right at them because the flower was right there. Then they walked away. I'm wondering what they thought.

Luckily, my neighbor owns a rebel xt and is also into photography so I'm sure he'll know what I was really up to. Besides, he knows I have no long lenses to peer into his window. :D

[CoolToolGuy]

If you want to shoot at a Rec league, find out when they have their organizational meetings (usually a week night once a month or so since the coaches etc. are usually volunteers) and show up with a portfolio of your work. Nothing elaborate, just show them that you like photography (like your aquarium photos), and tell them what you want to do. Make it clear that it is for your photographic development, not to make money (unless you want to got that route). That will put your face in front of the coaches ahead of time, and if an overprotective parent launches at you during a game, you may be able to avoid a lot of heartache. Of course it is possible the league management is full of overprotective parents and they won't let the idea off the ground. But if that's the case you would definitely be better off staying away from that league.

Have Fun,

[dshootist]

i'd say your finace and her dad are your ticket in. if they belong to an athletic association, see if they can introduce you to other coaches in the area and get some other teams involved. once you've gotten to be a familiar face and spread some of your photos around, no one will think twice about it. my son is 12 and i've been shooting his teams for about six years now. i've had people come up to me only a handful of times to see if i was with the local paper. most questions end up being, "can you take a couple of shots of xxxxx?" and to reiterate the others: act like a professional, get treated like one.

[Seefutlung]

I shoot a lot of H/S sports. Daughter swims and friend's son plays soccer. I toss the shots on my internet site for viewing and downloading ... I recommend the same.
http://garyayala.smugmug.com/Sports

[Wilt]

>>I'm wondering what they thought. Luckily, my neighbor owns a rebel xt and is also into photography so I'm sure he'll know what I was really up to. Besides, he knows I have no long lenses to peer into his window.<<

Besides, if you were truly peeping you'd have the 70-200mm lens, not that measly 50! Now if it had been his wife, and not your photographer neighbor...

[Seefutlung]

If you're doing the 'right' thing then it really doesn't matter what anybody thinks. Benjamin Franklin said that innocence is the best defense...

[Wilt]

>> Benjamin Franklin said that innocence is the best defense... <<

But it is better not to have to face the charges of being a sex offender and going thru the trial!

[Seefutlung]

>> Benjamin Franklin said that innocence is the best defense... <<

But it is better not to have to face the charges of being a sex offender and going thru the trial!

Once again, being innocent is a good way of not having to face charges and a trail.

[superdiver]

I kinda felt a little wierd when I first started doing this as well. But most of the parents pic you out right away and ask if you can get some shots of thier kids for them. Most realize that they will not be able to get decent shots with the P&S camera most have.

Ihave thought about carrying cards with my name and my site so they can go check it out.

Do any of you guys carry cards to hand out?

[Seefutlung]

I belong to a photo group, LAShooters. Most of them carry cards with name and photosite address (I don't but that's more do you being lazy then it not being a good idea). I cranked out a photo ID card, similar to a press ID badge that some wear when shooting events.

[MichelleK]

I like all the ideas about ID and having business cards. Whoever said it was right...pervs dont want to be identified.

Michelle k

[ducdubbq]

1. don't shoot little kids (4, 5, 6 year olds) this is where people are really skiddish. teens are in a different league, so to speak, in america's public paranoia. there was a episode of "this American life" which one research stated that images of people's kids disapppear when they reach their teen years. the researcher linked it to america's cultural ambiguity with teens; not cute children anymore yet not independent adults. so its interesting that you discussed shooting 12-14 year olds the same years their parents STOP photographing them.

but always safer just to avoid, since there are alternatives:

2. i didn't see anyone say this but if you want to shoot sports, go up to the local college or university, especially the community college. they have a multitude of sports, usually low crowd levels, decent lighting and coaches who don't get much coverage. drop a cd in their mailbox and the athletes will probably love it. no one's going to worry about someone shooting photos of 20somethings and besides, they will (as sports shooting goes) be more compelling.

also take in the beer leagues. softball especially.


3. what i find really interesting in this post is "how not to look like a perv" but IF I WAS a perv wouldn't i do exactly what people are saying to do to NOT look like a perv? the very irony hurts my head. of course, thats what freak people out about the whole thing. if you could point out a perv by sight, there would be no worry. right? the very nature of the sickness means these people have to be more sophisticated then having a bigma sticking out from under their trench coat on a sunny day.

actually here in NY a women in manhattan was arrested for being in a park without any children. the law was meant to prevent pervs from watching kids play but this woman was sitting in the park on her lunch hour bothering no one. so, apparently, even in liberal NY sometimes you just have to sit on a park bench to be a perv.

moral: stick to adults.

[vjack]

what i find really interesting in this post is &quot;how not to look like a perv&quot; but IF I WAS a perv wouldn't i do exactly what people are saying to do to NOT look like a perv? the very irony hurts my head. of course, thats what freak people out about the whole thing. if you could point out a perv by sight, there would be no worry. right? the very nature of the sickness means these people have to be more sophisticated then having a bigma sticking out from under their trench coat on a sunny day. Excellent point. Our inaccurate stereotype that sex offenders look odd, keep to themselves, wear trenchcoats, etc. is part of the reason why we never recognize them until it is too late. This was part of the reason why I tried to frame my earlier suggestion as one of looking like a photographer rather than not looking like a perv. The photo ID badge and business cards should help as well.

[Andy_T]

so its interesting that you discussed shooting 12-14 year olds the same years their parents STOP photographing them.


Well, then they would have to buy your pictures, right :wink:

Apart from all the good ideas already mentioned here, an additional thing might be to set up a web page with your sports images on them and put a bold sticker with the name of that web page on your photo bag ... then maybe some of the more inquisitive won't bother to ask you.

Best regards,
Andy

[Croasdail]

It is just so much safer and better to shoot at the local university or junior college - it takes away all the issues you mention, plus the level of compitition is so much more intense and photographically more interesting.... why not shoot the real thing then spend time in a situation you already don't feel comfortable with. Nothing against high school sports... but if your not there supporting a kid.... why not go somewhere where the venue will be nicer and the athletes more athletic. Most sports at the university are wide open with little to no restrictions on your shooting.

[superdiver]

It also helps that I am one a four dentists in a small town and people know me, so I dont worry about what they think so much, BUT I know there are some parents who dont and would question my taking lots of pics of thier kids.

If I lived down south I ssure would be worried about something like that.

The reason i brought up the card and ID thing was to not only calm parents minds but to give the the address of where they might go to check out thier kids pictures.

[Carzee]

1. business card "Team Photos Are Us"
2. id on lanyard round the neck
3. dual photographers, get your wife a camera?
4. Talent Scout Inc jackets (LOL)

[20Dgrappler]

I don't think there's a good way to be certain you won't be accused at some point. I started shooting some last year when I got my 20D and some decent lenses to photgraph my little league son. Then I went to some other games during football season and gave a cd of the photos to the parent who was in charge of photographing. (BTW, this may be a source of scrutiny for you. I don't think I was ever accused of being a deviant, but I do think that the parent who shoulders this duty for many hs teams, and some youth teams can feel like their "turf" is being violated when I show up, even though I give them my files afterwards. This is especially true when I'm shooting the 70-200 IS and they've go the f 4.5 zoom and don't understand how to change their ISO, or what it does.)

I shot at several football games, and had earlier asked the AD and head coach if they minded. No problem. I also shot some of the cheerleaders at the time. [You worry a little more about that. None of the football parents are likely to fear you, but girls parents may see things differently.] Gave my files to the AD on a DVD. Made a couple of prints for him too, and also a couple of good shots of the principal and superintendent at the big game, which they seemed to like. I do think having "official permission" is a good vaccination against accusations.

Having said all that, some of your external perception comes from what you shoot, and peoples understanding of why. And how well they know you. Shooting cheerleaders and dance teams, or wrestling or gymnastics might be regarded differently than basketball, football, or baseball. Age of the subjects is an issue. Its probably a good idea to delete any shots that end up looking questionable from the standpoint of what's been "captured".

When I was younger, I was on a college team and we had a guy show up and take a bunch of pictures. He then sent letters to several of the team members offering them private "studio" sessions and paying the then equivalent of $200/hour for modeling fees, with the photos being for his private collection. One teammate went, and it turned out the photographers passions ran beyond photography.

I also remember at my first job, one of the managers was known by the attractive girls to be on the lookout for "models" for his portfolio. I don't think anyone ever "sat" for him, but of course these were all adults and it was more humorous or pitiful, depending on your viewpoint.

I think the important thing from those stories is that if you ever had or proposed any independent contact with any of your juvenile subjects, you would be on extremely thin ice, and certainly could damage your reputation, or worse. PS. I wouldn't give out business cards unless you actually have a business, and posting the pics on an open access website might be a reason for some parents to object to you. In our town you can't even look at the names on the roster of youth teams websites without a password.

My take on most of the advice re: cards and appearance is this.....that won't help you a bit if you are confronted and people can't figure out WHY you are there. Giving your files to the AD or parent photographer helps with this, I think, showing you have nothing to hide. Working only where someone in authority or on the team knows you well willl help too. From my perspective as a parent, if we had someone show up with Steichens equipment and the nicest business card in the world, we'd still want to know more about him and what he was doing there. Don't go where you are at risk for this.

[Croasdail]

I agree with 20Dgrappler.... dealing with minors is just too risky unless you work directly with the school or the booster organization so everything is above the board. Don't just go show up to some random event and start shooting. 99 times out of a 100, there will be no problem - it just takes one parent to file one complaint - and even if nothing comes of it - your tainted. Just do everything propor like, and you won't have a problem.