MSVR Season Starter, Brands Hatch 19/3/06 plus some waffle again [56k beware]

[Dave_G]

Went to Brands on Sunday for the inaugural MSVR race meeting. On the menu were T-Cars, Formula Ford Kent Challenge, Sports & GT Challenge and Sports Cars Challenge series.

Good day, bit cold, struggled with shoddy long lens (see my DTM thread).

Also shall now refer to Jonathan Palmer as Dr Jonathan Knobhead. Reason is Glenn [Cadwell] pointed out to me that in the conditions of admission on the back page of the programme that "photography is strictly prohibited" which made us laugh. Will post the actual text later...anyway here's some broom-brooms going fast.

T-Car entering Druids. Sig 135-400, 320mm, f8, ISO100, 1/320a, PP minimal, increased levels and contrast, a little bit of USM
http://images16.fotki.com/v283/photos/1/105162/3350778/190306075copy-vi.jpg

Civic Type R Breadvan thing at Clearways. Sig 70-200, 162mm, f7.1, ISO100, 1/250s. No PP!!!
http://images16.fotki.com/v3/photos/1/105162/3350778/190306699copy-vi.jpg

Another Civic at Clearways. 135-400, 400mm, ISO100, f14(!), 1/250s. PP limited to increased levels and contrast (not a lot though) and some USM and cropped a bit. Flare from headlights isn't added on btw.
http://images17.fotki.com/v293/photos/1/105162/3350778/190306781copy-vi.jpg

Saxo VTR racer entering Druids. 135-400, 400mm, f10(!), ISO100, 1/320s. PP limited to USM and a bit of contrast and brightness...as usual
http://images1.fotki.com/v291/photos/1/105162/3350778/190306203copy-vi.jpg

More later, when I'm not under pressure at work.

Damn that Sigma 135-400. I say it's rubbish but actually looks like the images it produces are ok. :( balls

[Boggy]

Great pics, thanks for putting the info with each shot.
As for the "photography is strictly prohibited" this day is coming gents as the comercial rights owners of race meets start clamping down on non accreditated images in the market place. I already know of one instance and also the BSB have clamped down on togs selling pics to the public. Not sure but most circuits have some thing about photography and comercial gain. Sure one of the full time guys can give us the full details.

Shaun

[Cadwell]

Shaun, there have always been "no commercial use" restrictions on photography at race tracks for people without accreditation. The issue here is that MSV now appear to have excluded "private use" photography as well.

Nice work Dave :)

[Dave_G]

Cheers Glenn :) was a pretty good day. Amy took a few hours to defrost afterwards!

I will post some more later and some shot with the bunker of all medium-short zooms, the bombproof Sigma 120-300 f2.8 EX IF APO HSM LOL ROFL. Err...

[GSH]

I told you the 135-400 and 20D were a surprisingly good combo didn't i ? ;)

Nice shots there Dave, the Saxo looks very good indeed. I shall now don my Burberry baseball cap in honour of your efforts :lol:

Edited to add..

I'd love to see the MSV bods trying to remove the masses of camera-weilding customers from their tracks. It would lose them a good bit of cash at the quieter events when we seem to outnumber the other race fans.

I can always find somewhere else to spend my hard-earned.

[Boggy]

Cheers Glenn, but some people's idea of non comercial and private use is becoming blurred. The digital age and home web pages with the "if you like to buy a copy of this" tag on the page. Well you can guess the rest.
As for the MSV bods trying to keep use camera welding loonies out, don't think they would try that. Probably just do a web search for Brands Hatch pictures and armed with the signing on list send a couple of emails out to "frighten" a few and word soon spreads (I wonder how!!!:lol: )
Now I'm not at work was there ment to be four shots, as I am only seeing three but four captions? The tweak in brightness and contrast has made the blue on the saxo look great. Nice shot.

Shaun

[Dave_G]

haha, Burberry...erm

[Stav_98]

Nice shots again Dave!

For us less media savvy persons....how do you define accredited when it comes to photographers? Is this some formal qualification or society membership, or just you know a man who's friends with somebody who can get a media pass?

Not meaning to sound ignorant...just interested :)

[Cadwell]

In this instance "accredited" means a photographer recognised by the venue (race track) as an "official photographer" for some publication or organisation and duly "signed on" with the circuit media centre / press office.

The requirements vary from circuit to circuit. MSV have a fairly strict set of criteria, which they ignore/enforce when it suits them.

[GSH]

Bit of an update..

I've just checked my BSB ticket for sunday and it states that Photographic equipment is permitted for "Private Purposes Only"

Seems like the tickets and programmes don't tally up.

[Dave_G]

Updated so that the 4th pic shows. What a numpty!

[Cadwell]

Bit of an update..

I've just checked my BSB ticket for sunday and it states that Photographic equipment is permitted for "Private Purposes Only"

Seems like the tickets and programmes don't tally up.

Interesting. I've written them (MSV) a little letter asking them (politely) what the hell they are playing at. I'll see if they condescend to giving me an answer...

[Dave_G]

I can imagine it now...



Dear Dr Knobhead...

[Stav_98]

In this instance "accredited" means a photographer recognised by the venue (race track) as an "official photographer" for some publication or organisation and duly "signed on" with the circuit media centre / press office.

The requirements vary from circuit to circuit. MSV have a fairly strict set of criteria, which they ignore/enforce when it suits them.

Thanks for the information Cadwell. Looks like my little "pocket money" making plans are no more. Have to find a new way for fund my increasingly expensive hobby....bbbboooooooo

[Boggy]

Glenn, be interested to here what they have to say, let us know how/if they respond.
Stav_98 I'd carry on with your pocket money plans untill your rumbled.:lol: :lol:
Dave_G nice pan on the civic, now we can see it.:lol:

Shaun

[Dave_G]

I'd carry on as normal.

They'll never take me alive!!!

[Stav_98]

I'd carry on as normal.

They'll never take me alive!!!

I think I will....it's a little too late now anyways as my first batch of professionally printed A3 prints are due on Thursday!

[Dave_G]

D'oh

I think I'm going to get some prints of the DTM cars done for my office at home.

I seriously recommend the lens. If you can trial one for a few hours do it!

[Stav_98]

D'oh

I think I'm going to get some prints of the DTM cars done for my office at home.

I seriously recommend the lens. If you can trial one for a few hours do it!

I'll have to go investigate how much the lense is going to cost me, then work out which organs I should sell :)

[Dave_G]

Half an arm at the last check.

I got mine from Ebay - a recommended UK seller called com2buy_uk

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-SIGMA-EF-70-200MM-F2-8-DG-APO-EX-HSM-CANON-20D-350D_W0QQitemZ7602068723QQcategoryZ4687QQtcZphotoQ QcmdZViewItem

Came next day.

[Stav_98]

Half an arm at the last check.

I got mine from Ebay - a recommended UK seller called com2buy_uk

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-SIGMA-EF-70-200MM-F2-8-DG-APO-EX-HSM-CANON-20D-350D_W0QQitemZ7602068723QQcategoryZ4687QQtcZphotoQ QcmdZViewItem

Came next day.

Looks like a kidney and a lung then!

[GSH]

Where do you get half an arm for 500 notes?

I'll take 3 and swap em for a 120-300 :lol:

[Dave_G]

Half an arm plus £500 is about the going rate for the 120-300 at the moment.

A kidney buys you a Canon 1200mm L.

[Stav_98]

Half an arm plus £500 is about the going rate for the 120-300 at the moment.

A kidney buys you a Canon 1200mm L.

What counts as haf an arm? Below or above the elbow...

...this has become some what surreal!

[Dave_G]

From the elbow down IIRC...

[Stav_98]

From the elbow down IIRC...

uurrggghhhh I'm lost.

Just looked at your site Dace. Never ventured to the Horn to snap some bands?

[Dave_G]

uurrggghhhh I'm lost.

Just looked at your site Dvce. Never ventured to the Horn to snap some bands?

The Horn? Nah. Never...

Erm

http://images6.fotki.com/v74/photos/1/105162/918968/IMG_2963-vi.jpg

Pre EOS point and shoot days ;)

This is going very random!

[Dave_G]

Back on topic *ahem* here's a few more

Rover enters busy Druids
http://images1.fotki.com/v291/photos/1/105162/3350778/1903061027copy-vi.jpg

Mini. Druids...headlights gave me grief
http://images1.fotki.com/v291/photos/1/105162/3350778/1903061119copy-vi.jpg

These last two were shot with Glenn's 100-400 IS. Nice lens (before you all slate it, compared to my rubbish). 3/4 pan , f9, 1/160s (!) ISO400 ( :( )
http://images1.fotki.com/v291/photos/1/105162/3350778/1903061156copy-vi.jpg

Golf, Druids again! f7.1, 1/160s, ISO400 again
http://images2.fotki.com/v292/photos/1/105162/3350778/1903061148copy-vi.jpg

Exif details are attached to the images, some have PP, some don't ;) erk

Image Stabilisation is crazy stuff. Not sure how ultimately sharp the lens is - but it's def sharper than my RUBBISH CHEAP ASS Sigma - (not to be confused with my 70-200 or the 120-300 that is) and is quite light and feels good to use.

*sigh*

120-300 or 100-400? DOH!!!

[Cadwell]

Nicely done, Dave. :)

120-300 or 100-400? That's an easy choice (for me at least) - I live in the UK, shoot motorsport and NEED f/2.8 so I'd buy the 120-300mm (again) in a heartbeat. In the past, if I had both lenses with me I'd always use the 120-300mm in preference to the 100-400L. Up to 300mm there is no comparision. If I wanted longer than 300mm I'd stick the Sigma EX 1.4x TC on the 120-300mm and use that combination rather than the 100-400L. It still focuses quickly, is at least as good as the 100-400L for quality and is a stop faster at the long end (not to mention 20mm longer). The 120-300mm is one of Sigma's three "exclusive lenses" specifically designed for use with the TCs. I would have let you have a play with that combination on Sunday but I don't carry the TCs nowadays.

The 100-400L does have some advantages. Namely it's light weight and small size. For me, Image Stabilsation is largely irrelevant. I have it switched off most of the time.

[dengli]

[quote=Cadwell]In this instance "accredited" means a photographer recognised by the venue (race track) as an "official photographer" for some publication or organisation and duly "signed on" with the circuit media centre / press office.quote]

My understanding of the situation is that media accreditation will only allow the use of images in publications (web sites??). Taking pictures to sell to the public is a different matter altogether and would require a commercial license which, I image, would be very expensive.

Circuit owners are business people who are there to make a profit just like, for example, football clubs. How aggressive they are in enforcing their intellectual rights depends on their perception of how much money they might be losing allowing the sale of images from their circuits.

For Mr.Ordinary taking some pictures from public areas and then selling a few to their mates, this might not be worth their while pursuing (although they could if they wanted to). However if someone set up their own business and made substantial income from the sale of images, then MSV and the like would probably start flexing their muscles and taking action to get their cut.

[Dave_G]

Glenn - I think I was swaying towards the Sigma anyway, now I guess I'm sold.

*sells limb*

[Stav_98]

Nicely done, Dave. :)

120-300 or 100-400? That's an easy choice (for me at least) - I live in the UK, shoot motorsport and NEED f/2.8 so I'd buy the 120-300mm (again) in a heartbeat. In the past, if I had both lenses with me I'd always use the 120-300mm in preference to the 100-400L. Up to 300mm there is no comparision. If I wanted longer than 300mm I'd stick the Sigma EX 1.4x TC on the 120-300mm and use that combination rather than the 100-400L. It still focuses quickly, is at least as good as the 100-400L for quality and is a stop faster at the long end (not to mention 20mm longer). The 120-300mm is one of Sigma's three "exclusive lenses" specifically designed for use with the TCs. I would have let you have a play with that combination on Sunday but I don't carry the TCs nowadays.

The 100-400L does have some advantages. Namely it's light weight and small size. For me, Image Stabilsation is largely irrelevant. I have it switched off most of the time.

I'm getting all confuzzled! Okies...now my credit card is calling from my pocket. What sort of price are the 120-300s? I'm assuming it would be a better choice than the 70-200 2.8. Again I'm mainly a motorsport (very amateur) photographer but I'm lacking decent lenses.

Keep those photos comin' Dave :o)

PS. The Horn by the station. Gloomy lookin pub on the outside but has a cosey music hall out back. Get some crackin' bands in there.

[Dave_G]

Stav - yes, the Horn fits that description nicely!

The slightly longer 120-300 is around £1700 for the EX IF APO DG version, but some places list a non DG version at £1300. The difference is the cost!

Both are cracking lenses but the 120-300 comes at a price, whichever one you buy.

300mm is about the minimum for a lot of UK circuits but you will find yourself struggling at some venues, so the addition of a 1.4xTC as Glenn says can see you on your way nicely...more dosh! A better choice for a medium to long zoom, but if you can get close a 70-200 does the job awesomely.

[Cadwell]

Yes, Dave has it about right. In many ways the EF 100-400L IS USM would be an ideal motorsport lens. It has the right range of focal lengths, focuses quickly and is light and compact. Unfortunately its rather small maximum aperture of f/5.6 and all the low light and focusing issues that brings, often make it unsuitable for use in the murky old UK weather. Out of the 6 motorsport events I've shot this year, Sunday at Brands was the first one where it was useable.

[Dave_G]

Managed to find a few more images from this meeting worth showing you..!

Historic Formula Ford shot with Glenn's Sigma 120-300. Dirty sensor courtesy of me. No PP...f11, 1/250s, ISO200
http://images16.fotki.com/v287/photos/1/105162/3350778/190306510copy-vi.jpg
That is the ferkin' business! Look how sharp that is.

Hot Hatch King, the 106GTI. Sigma 135-400 at 319mm. f8, ISO100, 1/200s. Minor PP, nothing to shout about though
http://images17.fotki.com/v294/photos/1/105162/3350778/190306610copy-vi.jpg

Chavtastic XR2s at Clearways. Again, 135-400, 400mm @f10 ISO200 and 1/250s shutter. Just USM added to this, 0.2 and 300%. This lens isn't as bad as all that, really. Can't argue for £3.85! (actually it was £299)
http://images17.fotki.com/v295/photos/1/105162/3350778/190306717copy-vi.jpg

Heading for Brands on Sunday armed with my own 120-300.

[Dave_G]

Edit: That'll be Saturday!

[KennyG]

Hmmm... I prefer the contrast of the 100-400L to the 135-400. On my calibrated monitors you can spot the Canon.

[Dave_G]

Yes, I can spot the difference here too...the 135-400 is a lens you need to nanny to get a shot. It's provisionally sold :D damn thing