The exhibit Engine is forming

[Pekka]

Hi,

Just so that you won't think "he'll never get that gallery software ready" here's a couple of screenshots from this evening, the photoeditor's appearance is very "alpha"!

http://photography-on-the.net/ee/eE_browser.jpg

http://photography-on-the.net/ee/eE_photoeditor.jpg

Everything is extremely functional and fast in technical sense, the editor need some design and a few extra things like "add lens" and "add path" which are relatively fast to code. A modification of the normal browser page (in a secret, if needed pw-protected, location) is used in finding the photos to edit and it shows in that mode all non-public photos, too.

The browser has now a full search system, paging system is working nicely. You can change browser output style any time and switch between exhibitions from a menu (i.e. select category "music" and only ISO 100 photos with microthumb display and you can switch between exhibitions just like that and you see only the photos refined by the selections).

There can be any amount of browser output styles: now I have "thumbs", "microthumbs", "detailed list" and "counter graphs".

The photo display page has not changed in appearance, although the code behind it is now totally different.

Each photo can have a different owner, and the photos can be retrieved from anywhere. Thumbnails are forced to be on the hosting server (localhost), for speed reasons and for avoiding constant dead thumbs on shared galleries with some dead servers.

There will be a front page with all the exhibitions and info available, and also a news page, exhibition feedback page and gear infos.

Also some kind of a manual and installer would be fine :)

When? Soon. Maybe next weekend.

How much? Free for personal non-commercial use. (Donations appreciated)

Requirements: PHP4 as a Apache module and MySQL 3.23 on newer (both MySQL and PHP are freeware).

Tested on Apache server on UNIX and Windows 2000 platforms.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Pekka

[gandini]

Pekka:
This is amazing, and sounds very exciting. You say in a footnote that the PHP and SQL software is freeware. If I am running IIS on a XP machine, will installing this software mean I can use your Engine to make my gallery pages?
I apologise for any naivete I show with this question, but servers and web hosting is a *very* small part of what I do, and my skill level is commensurate.

Cheers,

[Pekka]

gandini wrote:
Pekka:
This is amazing, and sounds very exciting. You say in a footnote that the PHP and SQL software is freeware. If I am running IIS on a XP machine, will installing this software mean I can use your Engine to make my gallery pages?
I apologise for any naivete I show with this question, but servers and web hosting is a *very* small part of what I do, and my skill level is commensurate.

Cheers,


I checked from http://www.php.net and http://www.mysql.com and both are available for IIS, too. Apache server is also free for UNIX and Windows - it's the most used server sofware in the net.

I'll try to make clear instructions how to find information about how to setup SQL and PHP for any system.

[mbvt]

This sounds very exciting Pekka; it may be just what I need.

Just a few questions: do you store the images in the db or in the filesystem? Do you store the images in multiple sizes, or just in the largest size and have a smart engine scale it down on demand (like the MMbase CMS does for example).

I use mainly JSPs, so I'm contemplating using your PHP backend for filling the db and using my own JSPs for extracting the info.

gr. Michel

[Pekka]

mbvt wrote:
This sounds very exciting Pekka; it may be just what I need.

Just a few questions: do you store the images in the db or in the filesystem? Do you store the images in multiple sizes, or just in the largest size and have a smart engine scale it down on demand (like the MMbase CMS does for example).

I use mainly JSPs, so I'm contemplating using your PHP backend for filling the db and using my own JSPs for extracting the info.

gr. Michel

The db has a "size path" system which feeds the dropdown menus. You can select any number of named paths for each photo which can mean different sizes, or presenting different sharpening/editing methods, or showing image in color/bw/sepia etc. - as long as the file is on that path it'll be displayed.

I have now one PS action which does all the sizes, saves them to correct folders. Then I do one-button upload in WS-FTP.

Having images resized on the fly is something I really didn't want to do because:
- server CPU load would become intolerable in rush hours
- for security reasons I would not want to store the original images on server
- in PHP you'd need to use the GD library which is not available with every ISP, and cannot be installed per client basis (in my knowledge).
- sharpening can't be done in PHP, so you'd need to do it in C (and run it as CGI) which would again need more complicated install procedure (chmod etc) and more CPU power.
- upload in PHP is not reliable and does not work with files over 2MB.

What WOULD be nice is to give a choice to use a "sizer interface" under input forms: it would populate the folders with correct sizes. This would then be an _alternative_ to PS action (or Photopaint action). I'll propably do this on version 1.1.

But in any case the main design directive was "ease of install, easy on server, fast, easy to browse".

[romeozulu]

My gallery does automatic sizing using ImageMagick. It's free and can be installed on just about any OS and server. I am running a VPS through verio and didn't have any problem getting it running. PHP does not have an interface for ImageMagic, but a simple exec() call is all I needed.

When I upload a picture, I can upload each of the sizes, or if omitted, the sizes are generated. ImageMagick is not as good as PhotoShop, but damn close. It can do simple shapening as well.

ImageMagick can be found at:

http://www.imagemagick.org/

[mattij]

Pekka:
Having images resized on the fly is something I really didn't want to do because:
- server CPU load would become intolerable in rush hours

Matti:
Agreed.

Pekka:
- for security reasons I would not want to store the original images on server

Matti J.:
Couldn't you make the down resize process on the largest web ready image you provide with the gallery? Or aren't the results satisfactory enough that way?

Pekka:
- in PHP you'd need to use the GD library which is not available with every ISP, and cannot be installed per client basis (in my knowledge).

Matti J.:
I wouldn't worry, the GD library is quite largely supported... but like you said, burden to the server processes would be enormous with large images. And PHP module's process time is usually set to 30 seconds (by the web space provider) and that would not be enough for the very large files involved.

Pekka:
- sharpening can't be done in PHP, ...

Matti J.:
Actually you could tamper the image files with PHP, but that would be... well... hopelessly slow.

Pekka:
...so you'd need to do it in C (and run it as CGI) which would again need more complicated install procedure (chmod etc) and more CPU power.

Matti J.:
Maybe you could let a java (applet) do the sharpening on the client side for the resized browser friendly images anyway? Or maybe too much fuzz?

Suggestion: The "per page in" dropdown selection could include "the most viewed on top" as one option... maybe included already in the beta code :-)

[Pekka]

mattij wrote:
Suggestion: The "per page in" dropdown selection could include "the most viewed on top" as one option... maybe included already in the beta code :-)

You can do this now by selecting sort by "counter value" and display "XX pages" per page in "Descending Order".

I'll try to put the browser version with new photos + whole G1 gallery included as soon as possible so you can see how the thing works!

[Pekka]

mattij wrote:
Maybe you could let a java (applet) do the sharpening on the client side for the resized browser friendly images anyway? Or maybe too much fuzz?


I have a friend who could do a Java Applet like that easily (see e.g. http://www.musicfinland.com/brass/itec/ - click and move the mouse over that, too!) but there's always the problem of compability - e.g. Windows XP does not come with Java installed, and I'd like to keep the html as portable/PDA-compatible as possible. It could be a nice optional "info freak" interface (with additional functions like "zoom in", "make b/w", "show focusing point as red dot"), though.

PS. Do you know where Unsharp Mask algorithms can be obtained?

[mbvt]

mattij wrote:
Pekka:
Having images resized on the fly is something I really didn't want to do because:
- server CPU load would become intolerable in rush hours

The reason I mentioned this is that in MMbase images are stored in the highest resolution available (the source). They are scaled down on the fly to accommodate for designer-preferences or platform-preferences (like WAP, PDAs, etc.). Obviously their image-engine is highly optimised for doing this and besides, it employs caching, so performance is not a problem. This seems a nice architecture.
However, using a full-blown CMS just for displaying my image galleries seems a bit overkill, so I think I won't use it for now.

Pekka:
- for security reasons I would not want to store the original images on server

I'm not sure if understand this. If you can't be sure your high-res images are safe, how can you be sure anything else on your server is safe and not being hacked in to? And you can always put them in a secure realm?

Matti J.:
Maybe you could let a java (applet) do the sharpening on the client side for the resized browser friendly images anyway? Or maybe too much fuzz?

Personally I'm no fan of applets. They are very cumbersome to deploy due to Java VM support in browsers.

Matti J.:
Suggestion: The "per page in" dropdown selection could include "the most viewed on top" as one option... maybe included already in the beta code :-)

How about putting the most viewed in the bottom? Otherwise it would be a self-inducing process starving pictures at the bottom that may be just as well good to look at.

Just my 2ct.


gr. Michel

[mattij]

Pekka:
PS. Do you know where Unsharp Mask algorithms can be obtained?

Matti:
Pekka, you may try this basic one for starters:
http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/HIPR2/unsharp.htm

Obviously there must be more advanced algorithms for more demanding needs.

Actually common searching engines will lead you to a lot of sources for unsharpen and other algorithms.

BTW, ITEC 2001 headline java applet is quite "chic".

[Pekka]

Pekka:
- for security reasons I would not want to store the original images on server
mbvt wrote:
I'm not sure if understand this. If you can't be sure your high-res images are safe, how can you be sure anything else on your server is safe and not being hacked in to? And you can always put them in a secure realm?


Well of course the whole site must be always protected, but if I need to choose I'd consider freeware source code and database data as less important data that original size photos. Any site can be hacked into some day.

Matti J.:
Suggestion: The "per page in" dropdown selection could include "the most viewed on top" as one option... maybe included already in the beta code :-)

How about putting the most viewed in the bottom? Otherwise it would be a self-inducing process starving pictures at the bottom that may be just as well good to look at.

I'm sure the new browsing system will give each photo an equal opportunity to be "shown". The stats tell clearly that photos of women are the most popular :)

But it's easy for the owner to choose the initial parameters for browser UI.

I'll try to add an output listing option which shows counter graphs related to time of photo has been on exhibition. That's the real indicator how well photos are doing - if that's important anyways....

[Griffin]

Sorry but I have "extreme" negative feelings towards IIS. Yes it integrates tightly with the OS, but as an ex-webmaster, I feel that IIS is not too stable or secure than Apache or Netscape. It may be the shadow of the past, but I recommend you go with Apache. Not so easy to config but Apache is far more powerful and flexible.

My $.02.

gandini wrote:
Pekka:
This is amazing, and sounds very exciting. You say in a footnote that the PHP and SQL software is freeware. If I am running IIS on a XP machine, will installing this software mean I can use your Engine to make my gallery pages?
I apologise for any naivete I show with this question, but servers and web hosting is a *very* small part of what I do, and my skill level is commensurate.

Cheers,

[Griffin]

Pekka wrote:
How much? Free for personal non-commercial use. (Donations appreciated)

Finally, Pekka is doing something "commerical" with photography. ;)

BTW, how could we "donate"?

Best wishes for the Season.


Griffin.

p.s. Starve for your new works. Anything? Just one, plese... :D

[mattij]

More features to the already comprehensive list...

How about gallery visitor messages/comments/discussion forum on every photo?

Matti J.

[Pekka]

mattij wrote:
More features to the already comprehensive list...

How about gallery visitor messages/comments/discussion forum on every photo?

Matti J.

Do you think it's really needed? I know e.g. photo.net has such system, but still...

I have now a feedback per gallery (http://photography-on-the.net/gallery/feedback.php?exhibition=1&dt=1). Maybe if I added there a dropdown menu full of image headers, and you could choose from that menu an image what you want to comment (and the thumbnail + link would also be displayed in comment).

Viewers would then be able to choose only specific photo comments from a menu under feedback UI.

Then of course if image is removed or hidden from public the comment could or could not stay (with "removed image" as reference?).

I feel that if each photo had a comment below it would make the page cluttered and slow down pageloads.
Maybe I'm wrong?

[GenDEM]

Hey, Pekka, this looks great! I can't wait to try it out! If you need a tester, I'm your man. As for donations, do you have a paypal account?

[mattij]

Pekka wrote:
mattij wrote:
More features to the already comprehensive list...

How about gallery visitor messages/comments/discussion forum on every photo?

Matti J.
...
I feel that if each photo had a comment below it would make the page cluttered and slow down pageloads.
Maybe I'm wrong?


I wonder if it's the comments i.e. text that is slowing the pageloads? The photo files will always be the heaviest load on the pageload process. The database retrieval of text should not be that slow either...

Is it needed? Well, I myself have enjoyed the single photo commenting a lot. It draws your attention to details and to the particular photo in view.

[tom_piotrowski]

Hello Pekka

I look forward to first release of your PHP exhibit engine. Let me know when the source code is available so I can redo my www.fotofoundry.com and start adding new photographs.

Regards

Tom

[dhoule]

GenDEM wrote:
Hey, Pekka, this looks great! I can't wait to try it out! If you need a tester, I'm your man. As for donations, do you have a paypal account?


I'm with GenDEM, as soon as you have something, I am willing to test it out for you. Do you have an ETA? If it is weeks, I will wait, if it is months, I will have to add something to my site in the meantime.

Cheers

[blulegend]

I am sort of a "pseudo" webdesigner and have learned basic PHP and ASP. With PHP, I have used MySQL but not to the extent that you have. But it seems in about 6 months you have become very expert at it. I am thoroughly impressed. Did you begin learning from a blank slate (ie. no programming/web background)? Would you be able to suggest any good books for PHP? The book I have is becoming too elementary.

Also, great job on the website and the scripting. I like the clean, professional, and uncluttered look as well as the power features easily accessible on each page.

One more thing: great pictures!

[mattij]

My book, my only PHP book and it covers a lot, but not 4.xx version (my copy atleast does not)

Sterling Hughes: PHP Developer's Cookbook,

Publisher: SAMS

0-672-31924-1

[JFoote]

Hello One and All, First post here. I have more elementary questions than any 3 people you know, so let's get started, shall we?

1. Is this wonderful piece of software ever going to be within the grasp of your average Winders chimp? This assumes a Winders chimp of some modest skill, having built half a dozen winders-boxen and keeping them all running in fair order for friends and family. Proficient at last, he feels ready for new challenges in the Linux/Apache sphere, ooh ooh ooh aah aah!!

2. Will said chimp be able to run it on his old, OLD pentium humming away in a closet somewhere, hooked up to his modest little 512K DSL router? Seems to chimp the pipe would be the govenor, and any old boxen should handle anything that came down the pipe. As long as he doesn't expect huge amounts of traffic, it should work fine, right right?

That's enough questions to get started. Hey Thanx. Have a banana. John

[virterm]

Hello Pekka,
I just want to let you know that I really appreciate your contribution; I am also using D30 and your actions and profiles are really helpful.
I would like to offer my help (if needed) in developing your mySQL/PHP database. I have been working with PHP since mSQL (before mySQL was even released) and I have been also involved with mySQL for a long time (I am their Canadian mirror and second north american mirror).
Anyhow, I have some cycles and desire so if you want to share part of the project just let me know.
BTW: I am running Solaris on Sparc, so some performance testing could be done on Sparc (not really needed :)

Regards,
Wojtek

[tony723]

Hi Pekka,

Nice to know that you offer your PHP photo gallery package freely for others. I also have lots of travel photos and need to nice place to keep it. I searched several popular PHP sites and found that the following gallery package is not bad:

http://www.menalto.com/projects/gallery/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=index

I used it to rebuild my own photo gallery

http://www.home.org.hk/photo/

However I think your php package is good to show special photo with very detailed technical information. I think I will use it for some of my photos taken by G1.

Wait to see your good package soon!!

Tony from Hong Kong
http://www.tonyleung.com

[Pekka]

Hi tony723,

I know "gallery.php", that's one of the reasons I decided to code my own :)

I seeked a way to present my work to clients and other enthusiasts in most professional and flexible way. None of the packages available had concentrated to the browser interface in way I would have liked to. That's why I started EE project.

I hope you'll try out the EE when it's out!

[Pekka]

JFoote wrote:
Hello One and All, First post here. I have more elementary questions than any 3 people you know, so let's get started, shall we?

OK!

1. Is this wonderful piece of software ever going to be within the grasp of your average Winders chimp? This assumes a Winders chimp of some modest skill, having built half a dozen winders-boxen and keeping them all running in fair order for friends and family. Proficient at last, he feels ready for new challenges in the Linux/Apache sphere, ooh ooh ooh aah aah!!

To run EE, you need to know

- notepad (editing SQL password)
- ftp (upload images and PHP pages)
- how to open a web page (use EE interfaces)
- ability to install and use PHPmyAdmin helps in beta stage

You must have
- a website which has Apache, PHP 4 and MYSQL installed.
- some image editor for creating the resized images (first version does not do resizes or thumbnails), I'll give you Photoshop example action for resizing and saving.

For total beginners ftp is usually the hardest thing, but there are _very_ easy clients available, which work like windows desktop.

2. Will said chimp be able to run it on his old, OLD pentium humming away in a closet somewhere, hooked up to his modest little 512K DSL router? Seems to chimp the pipe would be the govenor, and any old boxen should handle anything that came down the pipe. As long as he doesn't expect huge amounts of traffic, it should work fine, right right?

If should run on very low resources. Speed is very depended on disk speed/load because SQL has it all on disk. When I got a big rush to my site when I announced the new gallery, this server (Cobalt RaQ) crashed a couple of times because enormous server log files ate all disk and RAM space there, not because the software was overloaded :)

On this February my server (which runs also this forum) the EE has delivered 10 Gigabytes of photos without a single error or hiccup.

Pekka

[rsmith]

Just a quick note on PHP books. If you were planning on buying one, don't, at least not yet!

In about a month O'Reilly will be shipping their book and it will probably become the bestselling one - take a look here:

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/progphp/

However, they've pushed the release date back several times, and the info available at http://www.php.net/ is very very good.

[GenDEM]

Hi Pekka

Are there any updates for this system, wrt the PHP upload bug? Or any general comments? I'm dying to try this out! ;)

[subq]

beta...

need some beta testers? I'm ready heh

Very familiar with apache, mysql, servers blah blah etc etc since it is the main field I work in.

[ThomasKæregaard]

Very very impressive work indeed! I am very interested in the sources as soon as you make them available. I am quite skilled in PHP and MySQL myself, and I would like to add new features to make the EE easier to use, e.g. upload pictures via HTTP, so users don't need to understand the ways of FTP etc.

[mbvt]

Hmm. I'm pretty handy at webdevelopment myself. This sounds as if we're about to open a sourceforge account soon :-)

gr. Michel

[subq]

no need to go to sourceforge with it...

Pekka just looked at your latest update...
All I can say is way to go man the whole process from picture to web is very impressive and has to be the best I have seen to date.