Wife OK'd $5000 Budget. 20d or 5d?

[lans]

OK, I have to strike while the iron is hot! My wife just gave me the go ahead to pull the trigger on my first DSLR! I have a $5000 budget.

Should I get a 20/30d? or get a 5d? I will be using it mostly for portraits, travel, and a wedding coming up in june (in-laws renewing vows).

I have been creating a wishlist at B&H for both set-ups and getting greedy on lenses.

Still need to get Mack, Tripod, Filters, etc.

I am SOO confused now. I had my eye on the 20d for awhile now and had created a set-up within the $5000 budget. BUT now I am re-considering going for a 5d to get FF, but again, I am just starting and don't know if that is too much camera for me right now.

Thanks for the input guys!

[kenyc]

If you're using it for what you say, I'd go for the 5D. If you are going to shoot sports or wildlife I'd perfer the higher frame rate of the 20D.

KAC

[Livinthalife]

I would go 30D allowoing you to buy more lenses and more quality of equipment. if you got some cash left over, keep it a secret, Im sure you will see something else down the road! keep in mind your going to need lenses, tripod, case, memory card(s), filters. If you got 5k to spend, I would certainly go all out. I didnt have a large budget hence my small equipment list.

edit: you have a awesome wife, take her out to a nice dinner too! my wife would never say "heres 5k, spend it wisely" haha!

[RikWriter]

Definitely the 5D for weddings and portraits. Use the remaining ~$2500 on a 24-70 f2.8L and a 70-200 f2.8L IS.

[sboerup]

Get the 30D. I shoot portraits professionally and haven't had need of more pixels for the 5D. I just printed out a 20x30 from the 20D and couldn't even tell, it was sharper than anything. Plus, you get everything the 5D offers, except FF and the more pixels. Faster frame rate as well, and a LOT more cash for other goodies :P

[mbze430]

Leica! R9 + DMR!

[mdm]

What a wife! you found a keeper.

[lans]

Here is my 20d list (can probably switch the 20d to a 30d):

Canon EOS 20D DIGITAL CAMERA = $ 1,069.95
3-Year Extended International Warranty for Professional Digital = $ 79.95

Canon BG-E2 Vertical Grip/Battery Holder = $ 159.95
TWO Canon BP-511A = $99.90

Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS EF USM LENS = $1,599.95
Hoya 72mm Haze UV(0) (HMC) Multi-Coated Glass Filter = $ 37.50
3-Year Extended Warranty for Professional Lens - Valued from $1500.01 ...more = = $49.95

Canon Zoom Super Wide Angle EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM Autofocus Lens = $ 1,399.95
Hoya 77mm Haze UV(0) (HMC) Multi-Coated Glass Filter = $ 40.50
Mack 3-Year Extended Warranty for Professional Lens - Valued $1000.01 to ... =
$39.95

Canon SPEEDLITE 580EX $359.95
Supreme Flash Diffuser for Canon 580EX Flash $ 14.95
Off Camera Shoe Cord 2, 60cm (2ft.), TTL Off-Camera Flash Cable $49.95
Stroboframe Press-T Bracket = $ 89.95

Bogen / Manfrotto 3021BPRO Tripod Legs (Black) with 322RC2 Grip Action Ballhead (RC2 Quick Release) - Supports 11 lb (5 kg) = $ 254.95
Need Bag - $?
Sandisk 2GB Extreme III Compact Flash Card = $ 109.95
Sandisk CompactFlash Card Reader/Writer (Type I & II) - USB 2 = $ 19.95



Total:

$5,529.35 (Oh oh, I'm already overbudget! Time to re-think some of the accessories and warranties)

UPDATED: Replaced the 17-40/4 and 50/1.4 with the 16-35mm f/2.8L. Replaced 2 Sterlingtek batteries with 2 Canon batteries. Removed both 72mm and 77mm Circular Polarizer (HMC) Filters. Still looking for bag.

[Jon]

Weddings - you'll need 2 bodies. Or a paid-up life insurance when your only camera craps out on the Big Day, resulting in your premature discarnation courtesy of bride and mother of. That forces you into the 20/30D range. Even if you decide to gamble with one body, I'd go with the 30D and get more, better glass. You might find yourself regretting that gap between 40 and 70.

And be careful on the "Introductory Filter Kits". You don't need the 81A; the camera will do it. Hoya has several lines of filters. You want at least multicoated (HMC) ones; the filter kit description doesn't mention coating, but from the price, I'd expect they are at best single coated. So get separate UV and circular polarizers from Hoya (HMC or S-HMC) or B+W (MRC) that are multicoated. Spare batteries - check out Sterlingtek - they're well thought of around here, and much less than Canon's.

I'm not sure why you're getting the Manfrotto 3298 Nikon flash adapter. With a bracket, and with Canon flashes, you won't need it.

Cards - SanDisk Ultra IIs run about $90 for 2 GB; get at least 2.

If you start bumping the edges of the budget, consider dropping the extended warranties.

[Brownie]

Spare batteries - check out Sterlingtek - they're well thought of around here, and much less than Canon's.

Pay attention with third-party batteries. Some are good (and cheaper than Canon's), others are a real threat to the camera due to their insufficient short-circuit protection.

The battery from SterlingTek in this test for example is to be AVOIDED:
http://t5r.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/e1/clonetests.htm
Quote: Construction is poor, charge control is poor, protection is non-existent and over-discharge protection is questionable (failed totally on my sample)

Saving a few bucks, and taking the risk to damage an expensive camera? No thanks!

[lans]

Thanks for the responses! I really appreciate it! Definitely need to take the wife out for dinner. ;)

I updated my list based on the recommedations here. I decided to go with either the 20d or 30d because the 5d will not fit the budget.

I still need to decide on what tripod / tripod head, and camera bag.

Thanks again guys! I almost ready to click on the checkout button at B&H. :)

[lans]

Pay attention with third-party batteries. Some are good (and cheaper than Canon's), others are a real threat to the camera due to their insufficient short-circuit protection.

The battery from SterlingTek in this test for example is to be AVOIDED:
http://t5r.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/e1/clonetests.htm
Quote: Construction is poor, charge control is poor, protection is non-existent and over-discharge protection is questionable (failed totally on my sample)

Saving a few bucks, and taking the risk to damage an expensive camera? No thanks!

Thanks for the heads up. I will buy their BP511A equivalent. I heard good things from POTN members.

[zacker]

Oh... buy me a 30D and a plane ticket and Ill be your 2nd. Photog at the wedding!
-zacker-

[Balliolman]

5D -- and make sure you save change for a bunch of flowers for your wife! :D

[calicokat]

Here is my 20d list (can probably switch the 20d to a 30d):

Canon EOS 20D DIGITAL CAMERA = $ 1,069.95
3-Year Extended International Warranty for Professional Digital = $ 79.95

Canon BG-E2 Vertical Grip/Battery Holder = $ 159.95
ST52 TWO Canon BP-511a Equivalentpad Sale price = $22.98

Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS EF USM LENS = $1,599.95
Hoya 72mm Haze UV(0) (HMC) Multi-Coated Glass Filter = $ 37.50
Hoya 72mm Circular Polarizer (HMC) Multi-Coated Glass Filter = $ 119.95
3-Year Extended Warranty for Professional Lens - Valued from $1500.01 ...more = = $49.95

Canon 17-40mm f/4L EF (USM) LENS = $ 629.95
7-Year Warranty for Lens - Valued from $400.01 to $700 = $24.95

Canon 50mm f/1.4 USM Autofocus Lens $ 314.95
Hoya 58mm Haze UV(0) (HMC) Multi-Coated Glass Filter = $ 20.95
Hoya 58mm Circular Polarizer (HMC) Multi-Coated Glass Filter = $ 70.50
ES-71II Lens Hood for EF 50mm f/1.4 Lens $ 26.95
7-Year Warranty for Lens - Valued from $200.01 to $400 more info = $19.95

Canon SPEEDLITE 580EX $359.95
Supreme Flash Diffuser for Canon 580EX Flash $ 14.95
Off Camera Shoe Cord 2, 60cm (2ft.), TTL Off-Camera Flash Cable $49.95
Need Bracket - $?

Need Tripod - $?
Need Bag - $?
Sandisk 2GB Extreme III Compact Flash Card = $ 109.95
Sandisk CompactFlash Card Reader/Writer (Type I & II) - USB 2 = $ 19.95



Total:

$4,844.63

UPDATED: Still looking for bag and tripod / tripod head.

So far, this is the best list under $5,000.00

[leletyM3]

I ll get a 20D or 30D since you can use the extra money to get quite good lenses like your list!!

[Brownie]

Here is my 20d list (can probably switch the 20d to a 30d):
(...)
Canon 17-40mm f/4L EF (USM) LENS = $ 629.95
7-Year Warranty for Lens - Valued from $400.01 to $700 = $24.95

Canon 50mm f/1.4 USM Autofocus Lens $ 314.95


Do you really need that 50mm?? Personally I'd go for a 16-35/2.8L instead of the 17-40/4 and a 50/1.4. Don't forget you can use the 20D with good results at ISO 1600. All you have to do is change the ISO setting ;-) It's not like an analog SLR, where a 50/1.4 often comes in handy in low-light situations and you don't want to change the film for just a few shots.

[davidfig]

With what you have said, I would go with the 5D. Maybe 24-105L.

[Ivan]

20d or 30d.

Why? From my experience.

When i went to washington state, my professor had a 1Ds Mark II (16mp one) and he said, that his camera is not worth the $7000 extra dollars.
He really liked my rebel xt.
Thats why i would go with the 20d or 30d over the 5d. You will be very happy with either the 20 or 30d and i dont think the 5d is worth the extra money over the 20 or 30d.

Use the extra money to buy lenses and other accseories.

--its not much for what camera u use, its how u use it. Check out my photography, all shot with a Rebel XT and some with my older Pro1.
at www.sonikphoto.com

go with the 20d or 30d.

[Brownie]

20d or 30d.

When i went to washington state, my professor had a 1Ds Mark II (16mp one) and he said, that his camera is not worth the $7000 extra dollars.
He really liked my rebel xt.
Thats why i would go with the 20d or 30d over the 5d. You will be very happy with either the 20 or 30d and i dont think the 5d is worth the extra money over the 20 or 30d.


If your professor meant what he said (maybe he's just the ironic type), he was a fool buying the 1Ds MkII. To other users the $7000 extra are money well spent...

[lans]

Do you really need that 50mm?? Personally I'd go for a 16-35/2.8L instead of the 17-40/4 and a 50/1.4. Don't forget you can use the 20D with good results at ISO 1600. All you have to do is change the ISO setting ;-) It's not like an analog SLR, where a 50/1.4 often comes in handy in low-light situations and you don't want to change the film for just a few shots.

Just thought that the 50 /1.4 would really help me when I am in low light areas where I can't use a flash. The 16-35/2.8L is also $1399.95 which is more than the 17-40/4 and a 50/1.4 combined.

[Brownie]

Just thought that the 50 /1.4 would really help me when I am in low light areas where I can't use a flash. The 16-35/2.8L is also $1399.95 which is more than the 17-40/4 and a 50/1.4 combined.

Don't forget the 50mm gives you the equivalent of an 80mm on an analog body. Not a focal length that is useable in a lot of low light conditions. Too long for indoor shots in low-light, not long enough for other things like concerts f.e. But of course it all depends on what you want to take pictures of.

[Brownie]

Thanks for the heads up. I will buy their BP511A equivalent. I heard good things from POTN members.

Has any of those users experienced the effects of a short-circuiting battery? I hope for them they have not. I really don't get it... you have a $ 5000 budget to buy nice camera equipment, and then you want to save a few dollars on something trivial like a battery?

[lans]

Don't forget the 50mm gives you the equivalent of an 80mm on an analog body. Not a focal length that is useable in a lot of low light conditions. Too long for indoor shots in low-light, not long enough for other things like concerts f.e. But of course it all depends on what you want to take pictures of.

Wouldn't the 17-40/4 be versatile enough? What do people here usually have on their 20d?

[Brownie]

Wouldn't the 17-40/4 be versatile enough? What do people here usually have on their 20d?

Personally I have a 16-35/2.8L and a 28-70/2.8L in that range.
But what I meant is that I think you won't really use that 50mm very much, and you might be better off with the 16-35/2.8L since then you always have the advantage of a 2.8, and it is very well useable wide-open.

[lans]

Has any of those users experienced the effects of a short-circuiting battery? I hope for them they have not. I really don't get it... you have a $ 5000 budget to buy nice camera equipment, and then you want to save a few dollars on something trivial like a battery?

Agreed. It's just that I heard good things from other POTN members when I searched for "Sterlingtek".

[Brownie]

Agreed. It's just that I heard good things from other POTN members when I searched for "Sterlingtek".

I'm not sure whether they are easily available in the States, but personally I buy spare batteries from GP Batteries http://www.gpbatteries.com.hk
About half the price of the Canon batteries over here, and they're good.

[Bald Eagle]

I would suggest the 5D, First benefit, FF, Excellent quality and perfectly suited for your needs. Here's my suggestion, try each one of them at a Camera shop. Suggesting a 5D is a biased opinion on my part, its a choice I will never regret, I have been impressed with it since day one.:D :D :D :D

[lans]

I would suggest the 5D, First benefit, FF, Excellent quality and perfectly suited for your needs. Here's my suggestion, try each one of them at a Camera shop. Suggesting a 5D is a biased opinion on my part, its a choice I will never regret, I have been impressed with it since day one.:D :D :D :D

At this point, it is really a matter of the $5K budget. When I started making the 5d wishlist I kept going overbudget. What do you suggest as far as lenses and accessories to go with the 5d? Thanks!

[babbo]

go for quality.

5D - wait until April 1st for $300 rebate
4GB CF card - shoot away, cull on the computer
24-70L - excellent walkaround lens
135L - excellent portrait lens
1.4x TC - with 135L, great for candids
580EX and Gary Fong's diffuser

be nice to your wife this year.
when it's time to take great pictures of little Johnny's sporting event, you can sheepishly ask her to get a 400mm or 300mm prime.

and, later, a great wide angle like the 35L.

[J Rabin]

Lans.
Family Events-Portraits-Travel-Wedding...You are not going to like my opinion...
Buy a body, accessories, and ONLY ONE really good lens to use for for 3-6 months until you decide how you see the world around you.

BANK the balance of wife's offer until you get a feel for how you "see" scenes, and if you need to spend more money on computer accessories for post processing. After all, digital cameras are computers with a lens attached.

Ignore the extended warranties.
Ignore the flash diffuser since pull-out bounce card on 580 works good.
Ignore a fast max aperture lens since Canon Hi ISO is so good and because an f/4 lens and a good body and a good Canon flash can use the flash IR focus assist beam without flash firing in low light. Gives you low light with depth of field at events.

Get 30D body so you can adjust ISO in 1/3 stops, have a soft touch shutter release, a spot metering mode for travel, and picture styles to get good JPGS out of camera before you go RAW.
Get a 24-105 f/4L IS for family, events, weddings, travel. For events, a person needs a solid mid-range zoom, not a 17-40 + 50.
Get a B+W MRC UV filter because they clean easier than Hoya's
Get a good circular polarizer for travel.
Get a 580EX flash.
Get a good "shooters" shoulder bag; Domke or equal.
Get an extra battery.
Get two CF memory cards, not one.
Get Off-Shoe cord.
Get Flash card reader.

That's in the $3,700 range. Then "bank" the rest of wife's offer until you see where this goes. You may decide a gray card (Whi-Bal @ $40 or equal) and post processing software like PhotoShop, sharpening software plug-in like PhotoKit Sharpener ($99), and noise reduction plug-in software like Noise Ninja ($69), are needed more than lenses!

Explore how often 24mm is REALLY not wide enough. Explore how often you REALLY would have used a 50mm f/1.4 instead of bumping ISO to 1600. Explore how many times on vacation you would REALLY would carry a 70-200 f/2.8L IS weighing 1.5 Kgs!

If you will do a lot of flash at events, as I do, then get constant aperture lenses. So, on the wide, you may decide to get the Tokina 12-24 f/4 and save $250. You may decide that for travel 70-200 is not enough, and you need a 70-300 IS lens. Give yourself time....
Jack

[JaertX]

Do 72mm filters fit on the 70-200mm f/2.8L USM IS? (anyone catch that?)

How about a few primes instead of all those zooms?

[Michaelmjc]

Definately go for the 5D, amazing camera. Get the 24-105 lens with it, its the perfect walkaround lens.

[Bald Eagle]

At this point, it is really a matter of the $5K budget. When I started making the 5d wishlist I kept going overbudget. What do you suggest as far as lenses and accessories to go with the 5d? Thanks!
Well, to be brutally honest, one is never done buying eqipment. But, for this Budget, I would agree on the 24-105L. This camera shines best with quality lenses. one or two batteries. (this camera is great on Battery life) I would also agree on the 580EX, I have one as well, and it is a perfect addition to the 5D. I would also agree on 2 CF cards. The 5D has many options that you will find extremely useful. :D :D :D

[ScottE]

I would go with the 30D. For most people I consider FF a drawback more than a benefit. For the size of prints most people make a full frame camera does not add any image quallity and costs a lot more, especially if you start buying telephoto lenses.

I'd spend the extra money on lenses. A good 3 lens kit for the 30D that would cover most needs would be:

-10-22 EF-S for super wide landscapes and interiors
-17-55 f/2.8 IS EF-S for portraits and weddings
-70-200 f/2.8 IS EF for medium to telephoto.

That gives you full coverage from 10 to 200 mm with a small gap between 55 and 70 that you should be able work around. (I expect that Canon has something like a 50-150 f/2.8 IS EF-S on the drawing board to cover that gap.) All except the 10-22 are f/2.8 which is fast enough for most purposes and all have excellent optical quality.

On a 5D you would need full coverage from 16 to 320 mm, with a gap between 88 and 112 to match that range. The closest you could come with three lenses would be 16-35 f/2.8 + 24-70 f/2.8 + 70-200 f/2.8 IS. You wouldn't have IS on the 24-70 range and your would have to add another lens if you needed the 200-320 coverage. Perhaps pick up a Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 (big and heavy and no IS) or live with a smaller aperture and slightly less image quality such as a 70-300 IS DO or 100-400 IS. Admittedly you wouldn't have to work around the gap in the zoom range from 88 to 112 mm.

[shamu06]

I'd like to suggest something along the same lines as Jack - get one top-notch lens now that can cover a wide range of uses. Go with the 30D and 24-105 F/4 L, 550/580EX with diffuser, good polarizer filter, two large (>=4GB) SanDisk memory cards, reader, lens cleaning kit with rocket blower, one of the Lowepro AW bags to your taste, and an extra Canon battery.

If you find that you shoot a lot of wide landscapes later, you can easily supplement for the wider end. If you don't like that idea, get the 5D with the same lens and accessories as above. However, if you aren't going to be shooting to get very large prints, choosing the 5D over the 30D will not make much difference.

Lans.
Family Events-Portraits-Travel-Wedding...You are not going to like my opinion...
Buy a body, accessories, and ONLY ONE really good lens to use for for 3-6 months until you decide how you see the world around you.

[rklepper]

At this point, it is really a matter of the $5K budget. When I started making the 5d wishlist I kept going overbudget. What do you suggest as far as lenses and accessories to go with the 5d? Thanks!

Take a long look at some of the Canon L primes that are available. Light, sharp, and less expensive than zooms.:D

[mbze430]

Why hasn't anyone recommend a Nikon? Geesh... so bias around here

[geester]

I would also load up on extra 2gb cards. with the 20d shooting raw, youll get approx 180-190 shooting raw. Sounds like alot, but trust me, it goes by quick. btw....great list. If you dont get the bracket, you probably wont need the off camera shoe cord.

[lans]

Thanks again for everybody's input! I really appreciate it. OK, based on what I've read here as well as taking into account what I will use the gear for and of course, the budget, here is my revised list:

Canon EOS 30D = $ 1,349.95


Canon USA Zoom Wide Angle-Telephoto EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM Autofocus Lens = $ 1,249.95
B+W 77mm UV Haze 010 (MRC) Multi-Resistant Coating Glass Filter = $ 79.95
B+W 77mm Circular Polarizer (MRC) Multi-Resistant Coating Glass Filter = $ 144.95


Canon BG-E2 Vertical Grip/Battery Holder for EOS 20D = $ 159.95
(2) Canon BP-511A Lithium-Ion Battery (7.4v 1390mAh) = $ 99.90


Canon USA SPEEDLITE 580EX = $ 359.95
Canon Off Camera Shoe Cord 2, 60cm (2ft.), TTL Off-Camera Flash Cable = $ 49.95
Stroboframe Press-T Bracket = $ 89.95


Bogen / Manfrotto 3021BPRO Tripod Legs (Black) with 322RC2 Grip Action Ballhead $ 254.95


(2) Sandisk 4GB Ultra II CompactFlash Card = $ 359.90
Sandisk CompactFlash Card Reader/Writer (Type I & II) - USB 2 = $ 19.95


Giottos Lens Cleaning Kit with Small Rocket Air Blower = $ 16.95


Lastolite EZYBalance Collapsible 18% Grey/White Balance Card - 20" = $ 59.50


Crumpler "The Karachi Outpost" Full Camera/Laptop Backpack = $209.95



Total = $4550.90 plus shipping

All these items are in my shopping cart and ready to go!

[lans]

OK folks! IT'S DONE! I've pulled the trigger on the final list above. Thanks again for everybody's help! Now to use the leftover $$$ to take my wife out to dinner tomorrow! ;)

[thundery]

Nice gear - Please post some photos when you can!

[Carzee]

Congratulations -its a great list of gear!

You must be happy dancing all round the house. I know I would.

[mbze430]

What happened to Leica R9 + DMR?!!!!! LMAO

Enjoy.

[Dragos Jianu]

If i were to be forced to blow that kind of cash on equipment I would probably go for:

-Canon EOS 30D
-Speedlite 580EX
-Canon EF 35mm f/1.4 L
-Canon EF 50mm f/1.4
-Canon EF 85mm f/1.2 L MkI

The 24-105mm f/4L IS US would be a very poor choice for your single lens. Way too slow at f/4 for lowlight or good shallow DoF.

[corterlifecrisis]

it sounds like he's going to be shooting people a lot, in which case f/4 will be plenty to pop the subject. L=nice bokeh at f/4, the extra couple stops shouldn't be that huge of a difference.
plus, if he needs the 1.4, he's got some leftover $$ (if the wife didn't see the final bill;) )to get it, or the 1.8 and another prime, or the 1.8 and a used 70-200 f/4L as well.

its amazing how easy the 5k goes when you have it, but it's equally as amazing how far you can stretch $500 when you have to.

congrads on your new setup, you're very lucky to be able to start out with nice equipment and i think you were advised very well and purchased very intelligently!

[lans]

it sounds like he's going to be shooting people a lot, in which case f/4 will be plenty to pop the subject. L=nice bokeh at f/4, the extra couple stops shouldn't be that huge of a difference.
plus, if he needs the 1.4, he's got some leftover $$ (if the wife didn't see the final bill;) )to get it, or the 1.8 and another prime, or the 1.8 and a used 70-200 f/4L as well.

its amazing how easy the 5k goes when you have it, but it's equally as amazing how far you can stretch $500 when you have to.

congrads on your new setup, you're very lucky to be able to start out with nice equipment and i think you were advised very well and purchased very intelligently!

Thanks! I couldn't have decided on this setup without the help of everyone here. :D I got lens crazy at the beginning of this thread, but pulled back after I thought about what the people said. I will try out the 24-105mm f/4L IS US for awhile and see if it suits my needs. If it doesn't, then I will look at other lenses. Although that 50 f/1.4 sure is tempting. :D Thanks again to everybody that posted!

Now, I wait impatiently for B&H to process the order and ship it to me. :p

[Dragos Jianu]

f/4, the extra couple stops shouldn't be that huge of a difference.

Say what?
-indoors : will always need a lot of flash, less freedom of mixing flash with ambiental.
-shutter: the difference between 1/30 (f4) and 1/250 (f/1.4) for example is not huge? For people 1/30 is useless, Image Stabilised or not.
-DoF : unless he is a studio photographer he will often feel the need to separate his subject from the background...oops can't do that with f/4
-AF : an f/1.4 prime will focus much faster and much more accurate then an f4 zoom lens.
-viewfinder: When you get used to the brightness of a f/1.4, looking thru the dimness an f/4 l ens is pure torture.
-ISO: the difference between ISO3200 (f/4) and ISO 400 (f/1.4) for example is not that big?

[racketman]

Portrait/landscape/wedding = 5D. Sport/wildlife/macro = 30D. Enjoy the 5D but make sure you only get quality lenses to get the best out of the FF.

[Brownie]

I'd like to suggest something along the same lines as Jack - get one top-notch lens now that can cover a wide range of uses. Go with the 30D and 24-105 F/4 L, 550/580EX with diffuser, good polarizer filter, two large (>=4GB) SanDisk memory cards, reader, lens cleaning kit with rocket blower, one of the Lowepro AW bags to your taste, and an extra Canon battery.

If you find that you shoot a lot of wide landscapes later, you can easily supplement for the wider end. If you don't like that idea, get the 5D with the same lens and accessories as above. However, if you aren't going to be shooting to get very large prints, choosing the 5D over the 30D will not make much difference.

24-105 on a 30D? That's the equivalent of a 38.4-168. Could you explain to me how that lens can cover a 'wide range of uses'? You can not even take a decent picture of your family sitting around the dining table <g> The 24-105 is in the first place meant for a full frame camera like the 5D

[bones]

Yeah, I would go with Jon..... get a 30D and your main and 20D for backup......seeing as how it should or already has dropped in price. You will need the extra $$$ for glass. Also both the 20 & 30D will use the same grip....so maybe get just one grip for now. Use the rest on glass.

Lar

[Dragos Jianu]

I will be using it mostly for portraits, travel, and a wedding coming up in june (in-laws renewing vows).

He didn't say he shots wedding for a living, its just a family wedding. So why is everyone telling him to spen his 5000$ for a wedding kit ?? Spend another 1100$ on a backup just for his in-laws wedding??

[lans]

He didn't say he shots wedding for a living, its just a family wedding. So why is everyone telling him to spen his 5000$ for a wedding kit ?? Spend another 1100$ on a backup just for his in-laws wedding??

Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I do not shoot weddings professionally. I am just starting out in the DSLR world. Most of what I will shoot will be family events, portraits, travel, etc. Would love to have another body (5d), but don't really need it for the stuff I do. Maybe later on, once I learn and digest what the 30d has to offer, I will look into getting another body. As far as the wedding, I have another point-and-shoot camera that will have to serve as my back-up...lol:lol:.

Still thinking about the 50/1.4. Maybe I should try out the 50/1.8 first and see if I like it.....hmmmm.:confused:

[ScottE]

Why are you bothering with a prime when zooms are so much more convenient?

[Steve Parr]

If my wife approved of a $5,000.00 budget, I think I'd spend the money on getting her in for a CAT scan...

[Elton Balch]

OK, I have to strike while the iron is hot! My wife just gave me the go ahead to pull the trigger on my first DSLR! I have a $5000 budget.

Should I get a 20/30d? or get a 5d? I will be using it mostly for portraits, travel, and a wedding coming up in june (in-laws renewing vows).

I have been creating a wishlist at B&H for both set-ups and getting greedy on lenses.

Still need to get Mack, Tripod, Filters, etc.

I am SOO confused now. I had my eye on the 20d for awhile now and had created a set-up within the $5000 budget. BUT now I am re-considering going for a 5d to get FF, but again, I am just starting and don't know if that is too much camera for me right now.

Thanks for the input guys!



I'd say 20d with kit lens and buy your wife a new Rolex.:D

[Jon]

What happened to Leica R9 + DMR?!!!!! LMAO

Enjoy.Some of us, unlike you, read OP's requirements. You propose a $10,000 bare-bones package for a $5000 budget and wonder why noone jumps on it. Or can you recommend a fence somewhere who can meet these prices? Get your doctor to write you a prescription for a clue pill.

[Lightstream]

I would go with the 30D. For most people I consider FF a drawback more than a benefit. For the size of prints most people make a full frame camera does not add any image quallity and costs a lot more, especially if you start buying telephoto lenses.

I'd spend the extra money on lenses. A good 3 lens kit for the 30D that would cover most needs would be:

-10-22 EF-S for super wide landscapes and interiors
-17-55 f/2.8 IS EF-S for portraits and weddings
-70-200 f/2.8 IS EF for medium to telephoto.

Fully agreed. Most people say you need longer, but on EF-S, the 17-55 is essentially 27-88mm, with f/2.8, with IS. This beats the 24-70 f/2.8L (which I ALMOST put down the cash for, but hesitated in time to learn of the 17-55), which is that equivalent on full frame, but with the addition of IS. This would be my recommended list too. Once you truly understand the nature of IS and how it can help you, you can never go back....ever.

As for the small gap, I intend to solve that using the solution the prime users always tell us about - "foot zoom". Or you can always shoot the 17-55 and crop later.

If you are really concerned and you *NEED* the extra coverage at the price of large apertures, the 17-85 IS USM is available here now and today, plus has the extra range. The only disadvantage is the f/4-5.6 aperture which is why I am planning to acquire the 17-55.

As for "EF-S is going to die" - not yet. Canon's not going to pull the plug on their very substantial investment in R&D and production facilities for EF-S lenses any time soon. It's a simple business, bottom-line-driven decision for them. The 17-55 hasn't even been spotted in the wild, much less given them a chance to make back the investment in designing and building it.

[dmp-potn]

Hello,

So far, this is the best list under $5,000.00
I agree. In fact, substitute the 20D for a 1D Mark II N, and this is the kit that we bring with us for most of our portrait sessions. These three lenses (EF 17-40mm f/4L USM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM) cover the range and have speed where it counts. Go for it!

[hef]

Lans.
Family Events-Portraits-Travel-Wedding...You are not going to like my opinion...
Buy a body, accessories, and ONLY ONE really good lens to use for for 3-6 months until you decide how you see the world around you.

BANK the balance of wife's offer until you get a feel for how you "see" scenes, and if you need to spend more money on computer accessories for post processing. After all, digital cameras are computers with a lens attached.

Ignore the extended warranties.
Ignore the flash diffuser since pull-out bounce card on 580 works good.
Ignore a fast max aperture lens since Canon Hi ISO is so good and because an f/4 lens and a good body and a good Canon flash can use the flash IR focus assist beam without flash firing in low light. Gives you low light with depth of field at events.

Get 30D body so you can adjust ISO in 1/3 stops, have a soft touch shutter release, a spot metering mode for travel, and picture styles to get good JPGS out of camera before you go RAW.
Get a 24-105 f/4L IS for family, events, weddings, travel. For events, a person needs a solid mid-range zoom, not a 17-40 + 50.
Get a B+W MRC UV filter because they clean easier than Hoya's
Get a good circular polarizer for travel.
Get a 580EX flash.
Get a good "shooters" shoulder bag; Domke or equal.
Get an extra battery.
Get two CF memory cards, not one.
Get Off-Shoe cord.
Get Flash card reader.

That's in the $3,700 range. Then "bank" the rest of wife's offer until you see where this goes. You may decide a gray card (Whi-Bal @ $40 or equal) and post processing software like PhotoShop, sharpening software plug-in like PhotoKit Sharpener ($99), and noise reduction plug-in software like Noise Ninja ($69), are needed more than lenses!

Explore how often 24mm is REALLY not wide enough. Explore how often you REALLY would have used a 50mm f/1.4 instead of bumping ISO to 1600. Explore how many times on vacation you would REALLY would carry a 70-200 f/2.8L IS weighing 1.5 Kgs!

If you will do a lot of flash at events, as I do, then get constant aperture lenses. So, on the wide, you may decide to get the Tokina 12-24 f/4 and save $250. You may decide that for travel 70-200 is not enough, and you need a 70-300 IS lens. Give yourself time....
Jack

I agree also with Jack. Start out slow to see what your interests are going to be. I made the mistake years ago buying too much and too big & heavy and wound up not using the camera as a result of this.

The 30d with it's 2.5 viewfinder coupled with 17-40L and 50 f1.4, 70-300 IS DO and 430ex flash, will be a great solution for quality pictures travelling light and at the same time get you aclumated to wonderful world of digital slr. Good luck on your choices and have fun.

[J Rabin]

Lans.
Kiss your wife.
I shot 35mm for 30 years, and never had gear as nice as your are starting with until about 50 years old. Do you realize SLR or dSLR cameras have never been more than about 4-7% of the market? You're starting in the top 5% of all gear. Use it well.

A few posts have been recommending to you how wide a wide angle focal length lens is needed for "groups" of people at family events with a APS-C sensor camera. I've experimented, and here is my experience:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1253925&postcount=20

Jack

[Masta Pasta]

Leica! R9 + DMR!

That's a good one....he'd have to borrow $500 from someone just to get the Digital Back....

Never mind the camera.

Ben

[mbze430]

Nah, a Used R9 you can get around for $1700 or less, and a used DMR is about 4700-4900

It's pretty much about buying a 1Dsmk2.

[cgratti]

I would definately get the 24-70 L lens in there, it's seems like almost a perfect fit for weddings.

[cbock]

If my wife approved of a $5,000.00 budget, I think I'd spend the money on getting her in for a CAT scan...
LOL! same here!

[togger]

For portaits I would get a 5D as you have more control over depth of field. I would spend some money on studio flash, reflectors and backgrounds rather than loads of lenses.

For professional wedding shoots 2x1DSII or a D20 and a wheelchair. (see life insurance post)

[Nice Glass]

He never said he was professionaly shooting weddings.

[togger]

He never said he was professionaly shooting weddings.
I would definitely charge my mother-in-law.

[Jon]

Nah, a Used R9 you can get around for $1700 or less, and a used DMR is about 4700-4900

It's pretty much about buying a 1Dsmk2.Still blows his budget out of the water, and what's he going to do for lenses?

[Woolburr]

I hope no one took the slam against Sterlingtek batteries too seriously....it referred to a replacement battery for an Olympus....has nothing to do at all with a Canon replacement battery. Anyone shooting a wedding...either professionally or even as an amateur is crazy to go in without a spare battery.

[rdsmith3]

Thanks for the responses! I really appreciate it! Definitely need to take the wife out for dinner. ;)


Speaking as someone who has been married for a while, I suggest you do more than just dinner. A piece of jewelry might be nice (doesn't have to be expensive -- it's the thought that counts).

[StealthLude]

20D + nice lenses are accessrories. Dont forget your 580ex. I pick more lenses over some insane camera body. I much rather have a 20D + 70-200ISL then a 5D and a 70-200 f/4

[lans]

Here is my obligatory "duck" shot with my new gear. Not in RAW format (jpeg) and no PP.



http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/lansar/IMG_0336.jpg

[lans]

So where was this shot? I took the advice of the other married guys here that posted on this thread, and took my wife out to dinner............. in LUZERN, Switzerland! :D

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/lansar/IMG_0319.jpg

[lans]

Here is the restaurant...

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/lansar/IMG_0362.jpg

[lans]

While walking around Luzern, I saw this and had to get a shot. ;)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/lansar/IMG_0484.jpg

[Ciqala]

i know your kits all arrived but the one thing everyone forgot to add to your list thats probably still worth considering is a couple of sets of GOOD rechargeable batterys for the 580ex.

glad to see you're enjoying your new kit though. :)

[gmazet]

I just dropped a boatload of money on stuff, without really asking the wife.

24-70L with warranty $1200
50 1.4 $300
Kata bag $150
Samsung synchmaster 244T $1400
EOS 30D $1480 after tax

about $4500 worth.. that's on top of all the other stuff I have

is it worth it?

I only have to look at my pics to answer that.. I have some pics of my daughter with some great bokeh, can't get that with a kit lens..

I considered the 5D but I don't see the value in paying double for Full Frame/megapixels. my 10-22 is plenty wide

Enjoy the gear!

[lans]

i know your kits all arrived but the one thing everyone forgot to add to your list thats probably still worth considering is a couple of sets of GOOD rechargeable batterys for the 580ex.

glad to see you're enjoying your new kit though. :)

Once I opened the 580ex and saw that it doesn't use the same batteries as the bg-e2 I had to grab a few disposable batteries and prayed that it would be enough. I will be purchasing some rechargable ones as soon as I get back from this trip. Any suggestions on GOOD rechargeable batteries for the 580ex?

[gmazet]

I would also suggest you pick up Capture One LE for 99 dollars/euros. I like the workflow and the results.

What's your digital darkroom like? Got enough storage? memory? CPU? Software? you could use that leftover money to boost up your processing environment..

[lans]

I just dropped a boatload of money on stuff, without really asking the wife.

24-70L with warranty $1200
50 1.4 $300
Kata bag $150
Samsung synchmaster 244T $1400
EOS 30D $1480 after tax

about $4500 worth.. that's on top of all the other stuff I have

is it worth it?

I only have to look at my pics to answer that.. I have some pics of my daughter with some great bokeh, can't get that with a kit lens..

I considered the 5D but I don't see the value in paying double for Full Frame/megapixels. my 10-22 is plenty wide

Enjoy the gear!

Your photos at smugmug look great! I am a newbie and have A LOT of reading and shooting to LEARN. I look forward to being able to take great looking photos like the members of this forum. :)

[lans]

I would also suggest you pick up Capture One LE for 99 dollars/euros. I like the workflow and the results.

What's your digital darkroom like? Got enough storage? memory? CPU? Software? you could use that leftover money to boost up your processing environment..

Mac G4
1.5Gb RAM, dual processors
250 Gb for photos
Photoshop CS2

[gmazet]

Your photos at smugmug look great! I am a newbie and have A LOT of reading and shooting to LEARN. I look forward to being able to take great looking photos like the members of this forum. :)

Thanks a lot for the compliments!

You are certainly starting off with a hell of a kit.

You want to learn? Don't use the automatic modes on the camera.. Having a rig like yours and going automatic is like buying a Corvette Z06 with an automatic transmission (If you had the 1ds, i would say Ferrari). Start with Tv or Av, but eventually, go to M so you can be in complete control of the exposure. the 30d allows you to shift aperture and shutter speed very quickly, so you can in many cases take 6 different variations of a shot in no time.

Get a few books, I would reccomend one: Understanding Exposure by Peterson

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0817463003/sr=8-1/qid=1144626733/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1842096-1232034?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Your biggest challenge will be finding the time for it all. I always want to go take pictures, but rarely have the opportunity, even on vacation (wife and kids don't want to travel with a photographer, they want a husband/dad), and processing, that takes time..

Learn photoshop (some advice I need to follow myself), but at least get a good RAW workflow app (I like C1 as I said), beats the heck out of what the camera does 99 percent of the time and the expense of your time, don't bother with the crappy RAW software they package up with the camera..

Above all, take LOTS of pics and enjoy. Nothing will teach you quite like releasing the shutter..

[WhatEyeSee]

WOW - You all ROCK!! Great insight, and not too many wars errupted. ;) LOL

Lans - your org post is my exact same question Are we twins???- LOL. I see you have the Adobe CS2 - I have Elements 2.0 and :confused: drool over the CS2 :p - mybe one day in the next melinnium. LOL

:D My husband has also given me the OK for the 5d however I would not be able to afford all of the lens and other goodies to really make it woth the expense of the body. I am also undecided how I am going to pay for this.

For over a year I was considering the 20D until I began doing more research recently and just learned about the 30D a few weeks ago and also the 5D, so I struggled w/ the same question as you - WHICH ONE - OH ME- OH MY!!.

I have since seen many professional photographers using the 20D and am very impressed, so I no longer think the 30D is settling.

I will flag this thread and use it when I decide to make my purchase. I too have frequented B&H's web site and just last night have made a wish list. :lol: too funny. This is the best site for product reviews and compairisons. How did you like their customer service and overall purchase?

Is you wish list still posted w/ them? If you is it a public view? I would like to show my husband this list and see what we can decide on.

Any additional input from others is welcomed.

My main purpose is to get into DSLR and begin protraites, small weddings, and some sports for pleasure and business. (just getting my feet back into photography after a long dry spell, and have decided that Digital is STILL photography.)

[Ciqala]

Once I opened the 580ex and saw that it doesn't use the same batteries as the bg-e2 I had to grab a few disposable batteries and prayed that it would be enough. I will be purchasing some rechargable ones as soon as I get back from this trip. Any suggestions on GOOD rechargeable batteries for the 580ex?

this thread should help you on that front...

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=144934&highlight=580ex+batteries

[WhatEyeSee]

PS - GREAT PHOTOS - I AM SOLD ON THE 30D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WhatEyeSee]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oK = another question for the experts.

What do you think of this 30D w/ lens kit? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7607525032&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Overall price is great for my budget.

Thanks

[20DNewbie]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oK = another question for the experts.

What do you think of this 30D w/ lens kit? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7607525032&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Overall price is great for my budget.

Thanks
I'd just make sure if you buy it online that the people your buying from are an Authorized dealer so you'd be able to get whatever rebates were available. Also that your able to get the proper warranty.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

[goatee]

I have no idea what a good price for a 30D is, but personally, I doubt you'd need all those accessories - you may be better off thinking about what accessories you actually need, and getting quality ones, rather than the (presumably cheaper inferior quality) ones in the kit.

Also, with regards the lenses in the kit, unless you think you will really use a longer telephoto lens, you may be better off buying a 30D body only, and adding a quality walkaround lens to it (e.g. Canon 17-40L, Sigma EX 18-50, Tamron 28-75), along with a 1GB or 2GB compact flash card, a camera bag, and possibly a UV filter for the front of the lens.

Deals like this can initially seem great value, but, if you're spending hundreds of dollars on things you don't need, you may end up spending more money in the long run.

[WhatEyeSee]

I have always had a tele zoom. I use it for sports and different things, or when I am stuck some place far away - guess w/ digital could just crop the heck out of a picture. ;)

Yeah - I need to educate myself on lenses - (trying to on these forums) because you are right - a Kit might look nice, for the price, but could wind up paying for garbage.

I mostlikely would not use EBAY to buy my stuff; I was using it as a way to browse for items.

Thanks.