Shooting 'the streets/candids' - all the tips!

[condyk]

Ok, here is the aspiration:

To get more people out shooting 'the streets/candids', doing it better than they have before and also enjoying shooting more than before.

Here's the process:

If you're a 'streets/candids' type shooter, all the time or just now and again, then drop in a tip or a load of tips here. I don't want pointless discussion about 'what is PJ, what is street, what is urban, what is candid, etc' - do that somewhere else. Lets just focus on delivering tips and let the punters, including all of us here, learn from them.

Remember the aspiration ;) KISS!! If you don't agree then start your own thread :p

Who's first - and examples are optional?

[quickben]

First one has got to be the easiest.

--- USE A TELEPHOTO LENS ---

Medium telephoto should do, around 200mm is probably ideal. You need this length to be able to take a decent head shot without disturbing or interupting your subject.

Gary.

[Ruffneck]

For the second tip I would suggest, Never disturb the subject! It should be as candid as possible and the subject should not have known a photo was being taken.

[futura]

Don't let the weather deter you! An overcast day may stop you from shooting landscapes but you can shoot street work regardless. If it starts raining, take cover but keep your eyes peeled for shots, some of my best ones have come from interesting reflections in puddles.

[condyk]

Good start kids ...

Here's a couple from me. Use a handstrap as the camera is almost invisible hanging by your side. Lift it to shoot. Carry two plastic shopping bags in your pocket, one inside the other, and put the camera in there if you're not shooting or you're taking a break. No need to carry a camera bag. A spare battery, card and lens can easily just slip in your pocket.

[Sean-Mcr]

Ask yourself why you are taking the shot in the first place. If its candids, what is it about them that makes them interesting photographically. Taking photos of people with out them noticing is not in itself interesting,be it with a 35mm lens or a 400mm lens. Shooing people simply because you can is no path to an interesting shot.

It's a study of people, i often spend a while around my subjects, i'm often doing what they are. Might be enjoying a drink at a cafe bar or event, can sometimes be some time before it's worth raising my camera. There's little challenge or point in taking a shot of somebody doing nothing. I wait for those little moments, that can come in a second and go just as quickly.

Safety

If you're going shooting in a run down area. I would suggest that when in Rome you do as the Romans do. I'm from a tough old inner city area, and if you dress like a student or a tourist with camera gear round some of those streets, you're going to stand out like a sore thumb and look like a soft target, dress down get some street gear ect, look like a native.

Be confidant, do not be afraid of being asked to explain why you're taking photos. It's a good thing what you're doing, and if you believe in that, then act accordingly. I normally shoot pretty close to my subjects, i have struck up some great conversations because of what i do. It's simply not true that natural candids have to be shots where the subject is unaware. Candid means open honest and frank, it doesn't mean "i didn't know". They forget about the camera, just like documentary subjects forget about the camera

Out and out street shots needs a different approach, I'm constantly scanning scenes. I have my camera by my side , i use my 35mm prime these days, i know where i need to be before i lift the camera to my eye, i'm used to the fov, so i i'll get the shot (hopefully) before the moment has gone forever. Not often i get noticed and i don't mind being noticed, i believe in what i'm doing and i'm ready to explain it to anybody that cares to listen.

[frs]

For quick street shots, i like using a hyperfocal setting.

[condyk]

Excellent efforts so far ... one I use a lot is to decide if I want bokah or background before I shoot and just flip the aperture to suit. People I'll tend to go the bokah route but it always depends. As Sean says, you see the shot before your take it so it's about getting the composition right. Av mode is useful in all this as less to think about. I tend to use manual for building shots tho' as they don't tend to move ;-)

[Keiffer]

Good thread Condyk and good responses so far. Keep em coming, I'm looking forward to see what all the street photogs say.

[INNflight]

Might be an advice some of you couldn't agree on, but it really helped me to save excellent moments in the past.

-- Shoot in P mode --

Why? As said before, the "one" moment you'd like to have captured can come and go within a second. Backgrounds may change, and sun vs. shadow can change within a second.

In such a second you wouldn't want to worry whether your aperture is too small, or your shutter speed is below 1/10th. You just want that shot.

There can be quite a lot done in post-processing later on, but you'll never be able to recover a scene you missed because of still tweaking in the right settings.

A quote I like a lot is: "You'll miss every photo you don't take." :)

[Sean-Mcr]

I shoot in manual , i set the the shutter and aperture according to the conditions i'm working in before i start shooting and check the exposure regularly, works for me, its second nature to me now, i leave nothing for the camera to decide. You really want a decent shutter for street work with people. I'm not interested in Bokeh personally for this type of photography, bokeh is just a bi-product of me using a wide aperture when the light gets tough. But i do use fast lenses as light & environment changes.

if anybody is a little apprehensive about taking street shots of people, i'd like them not to be. But I understand that we don't all have the same make-up but you really are doing a good thing, never forget that. Print some cards with your email address on ect, if you enter in to a conversation with those you've shot give them your card & let them know you'll mail them the shot. It's going to be rare as hens teeth that you get bad vibes.

Be confident, be open; You've nothing to hide so don't look like you're hiding, it's having a stranger acting suspect across the street that is going to get you in to trouble, not taking someone's photograph

It's generally better in crowds, the more people the better the chances of getting a shot naturally, and the less any subject will feel like they've just been picked out. If you're in a crowd and shoot somebody and they notice, shoot somebody else close by to them, basically says, i'm not just interested in you, don't worry i'm not stalking you. This is what i use for my bar shots, i might shoot things that i have no interest in, I'm just saying to those around me, that if you notice me shooting you-they rarley do, but if they do. They know where i'm coming from. I've had many people ask me to take their photo in bars when they've noticd me taking my candids of others, none of which are the people in my gallery, but i'm going to make a gallery of those shots. Just snaps, but reminds me that what im doing is a good thing, not that i need it

Have faith in yourself and what you are doing

[condyk]

Nice Seany ... here's another:

Go out with two lenses at different lengths. I like to walk one route with one lens and then take the same way back home with the second. A prime really does make you reassess what you see/shoot and how you compose a shot, even of the same subject.

[Skippy29]

Great thread. Lately I've been wanting to do more people/urban shots but find that I feel self conscious when people notice I'm shooting them. I guess it's just the world we live in now, I'm afraid people are thinking "what's this guy up to?". So I seem to just do mostly landscapes and abstracts and I really want to change that.
Funny thing is, I find that I am most comfortable making up a story as to why I'm shooting a particular scene or person, like "Oh I'm a photography student" or "I do some side work for the local beach scene newspaper". Stupid huh? But it makes me feel more legitimate in their eyes....or worry less about what they might be thinking.
I really need to work on that.

[Digitalwave]

I always tell people its for my photography class and I got to school at Palm Beach Atlantic University. I did take photo class and I do go to PBAU, but I'm not in the class anymore. I won't be able to pull that one anymore in a year when I graduate though.

[elTwitcho]

I've been kinda on the fence about putting something in here since I don't shoot people and rather something akin to urban landscape, but what the heck, some of it might be applicable.

I think in the urban environment more than anything you have to be absolutely aware of the two Cs that can sink your photo. Clutter in the foreground, crap in the background. In either case, if it isn't directly related to your subject, having it in the frame will take away from the impact of your photo. There is SO much stuff flying around all over the place in the city that it's easy for something to encroach into your frame that will destract from your subject, and diminish the effectiveness of your photo. Careful framing, working the angles, getting closer or farther are all ways you can manage what's in the frame, and it's something that has to more or less become second nature to succeed in shooting in the city.

[LuckyRobJ]

Great thread. I'd love to get more shots of people, but without a large telephoto, and with the relatively loud shutter on the 20d, I find it difficult. I always get looks after the first shot.

To add to the tips: If the subject is a pan handler or busker, I usually donate something. I think it's only fair. If I see an interesting shot, but I don't have anything do donate, I usually just keep walking.

Rob

[Sean-Mcr]

What's wrong with getting looks, you've just shot them it's only fair that they get to see you to. Be confident, you're creating, not destryoing.

I'm going to give this link, as it's a good guide for those that are interested in shooting people. Now forget about the lens for the time being just take in the approach, its the one i use it never fails, and i use a 20D and i am often as close as you could get. It's all about the approach i'll just lift this from the article

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/street.shtml


"As crowding increases, people's personal space requirement decreases. Also, the space one needs and expects is culturally dependant. In some countries people naturally stand, talk and touch each other in public to a closer degree than in others. But there are general unspoken rules. Get too close, "In your face" — as the saying goes, and people get nervous, even if they don't know exactly why.

At a fair, a midway at a carnival, a sports event, parade, concert or public ceremony, people's need for personal space and therefore privacy is reduced. The level of sensory stimulation is also usually high at these events, which tends to reduce the need for space. As well, in most of these situations people are having fun so they are more relaxed.

At the far extreme is a crowded elevator. We stand touching shoulders with strangers in a small space, yet taking a photograph would be an unthinkable invasion, even if it were not physically impossible to do.

Understanding these issues is important to doing effective and interesting street photography. If you poke a camera in someone's face as they sit alone reading a book on an empty park bench you're likely to be poked back. But you can comfortably get even closer if you're both standing in a crowd watching children riding a Ferris wheel.

[Claire]

I don't know if I have much to add really apart from - give it a try! I have always liked taking candids of people, observing them and then taking a shot. Before I got my tele I kept wishing for it so I could take candids from far away. It's nice, but lately as the tele feels a bit much to bring along at times (and I've noticed people looking more at me when I use it), I now shoot with my 50mm.

My advice is: dare to go out and take photos. I've been bringing along the camera much more since a couple of threads on POTN on street photography. Since then I've uploaded a bunch of stuff on my Flickr site. I'm slowly getting the hang of looking more confident when shooting and daring to shoot closer. Tell yourself you're doing nothing wrong and if someone asks, just explain.

[BottomBracket]

Great thread! Sorry for jumping in a bit late, we have company visiting for a whole month (!) and I don't have much time for myself.

My first tip to share is that you should ALWAYS BRING YOUR CAMERA! With urban photography, you'll never know when you're going to chance upon a photographic opportunity, so it's best to be ready. When I'm on a walk with photography on my mind, I usually bring my dSLR and G6 together (more on lenses later). If I'm on a non-photography errand, I always bring my G6.

It also pays to have a pen and paper or PDA handy. If I'm on a car, bus or bike, and I pass by an interesting place worthy to be photographed, I would write down the address or intersection where it's at. That way I can go back later. I have this personal mission to photograph as much NYC street art as much as I can - this helps a lot. On the few times that I carry my GPS receiver, I save the location.

More to follow soon!

[Streetshooter]

Sean has a few good points and then you have to remember...

the closer you are to your subject the easier it is to make images...I mean close...
sometimes I may be just a foot away, I do this alot.....get close, then get closer.....
I have a series that started 30 years ago that's about transportation and the riders....I have many great portraits that were made less than a foot away.....straight in the subjects face...but isn't that what riding the subway is about....if your livin it...you can capture it...

Sean makes a very important point about making and not taking images, its' the most important approach in photography....simply put...it erases the guilt that ya get thinking your taking something......

if the scene ever developes to a confrontation...well, be a soldier, and definately keep making images...afterall, on the streets, it's about capturing life...and sometimes confrontation is life.....don't look for it but definately don't run from it either....

you'd be suprised sometimes how great an image that can make.....don

[BottomBracket]

To build on Sean's and Street's points, don't be afraid to go close and take the picture. Don't worry about confrontation, the chances of it happening is very nil, close to zero. some people wil smile and enjoy being taken, most will be indifferent, some will be very angry. If someone gets angry and starts yelling at you (which will happen less than 1% of the time) just walk away.

Sometimes I find the results of covert capture interesting. With a dSLR, this will entail shooting from the hip, as bringing that big camera up to your face will alert people to it, and they may not act too naturally. This is where I the Powershot G6 really shines. It is unobtrusive, quiet, and has a swivel screen that allows hip-shooting or any other awkward position possible. This type of photography style can be quite useful, especially in this day and age when people tend to turn away automatically when a camera is pointed at them.

[Streetshooter]

To build on Sean's and Street's points, don't be afraid to go close and take the picture. Don't worry about confrontation, the chances of it happening is very nil, close to zero. some people wil smile and enjoy being taken, most will be indifferent, some will be very angry. If someone gets angry and starts yelling at you (which will happen less than 1% of the time) just walk away.

Sometimes I find the results of covert capture interesting. With a dSLR, this will entail shooting from the hip, as bringing that big camera up to your face will alert people to it, and they may not act too naturally. This is where I the Powershot G6 really shines. It is unobtrusive, quiet, and has a swivel screen that allows hip-shooting or any other awkward position possible. This type of photography style can be quite useful, especially in this day and age when people tend to turn away automatically when a camera is pointed at them.

True enuff....the real truth of the matter is....
when you point a camera at someone...you are selecting them from the crowd....making them feel special.....

and from the hip...many times with my Leica I would hold the camera up or out and make images.....after some time, you can actually feel the frame...I am doing this with my 5D now to.....

it's raining here and I'm bored as hell.....later...don

[BottomBracket]

True enuff....the real truth of the matter is....
when you point a camera at someone...you are selecting them from the crowd....making them feel special.....

and from the hip...many times with my Leica I would hold the camera up or out and make images.....after some time, you can actually feel the frame...I am doing this with my 5D now to.....

it's raining here and I'm bored as hell.....later...don

Dang Don, it's raining here in NYC as well. Had to fetch a brother in law at JFK airport, and bring my son to swimming lessons after, took less than 10 shots today :) Now I'm just stuck at home as well, entertaining visiting relatives who'll be here for a month. I'll be editing pics in a while, man do I have a huge cache that needs it....

Pio

[Claire]

Glad to here it's not just us having crappy weather.

So,out of curiosity,when you all are out shooting street/urban stuff,what do you find yourselves mainly shooting? Buildings? People? Crowds? etc. Do you see a pattern? Where do you like to shoot? Can we perhaps get tips on good type of places,or how to handle shooting in a certain situation/place.

l've found myself taking majority of shots in cafes and trainstations.

[Streetshooter]

Claire....

good question.....thru the years I've learned to recognized certain trigger mechanisms.
These triggers, I anyalized and found common denominators in groupes of images....

when I'm out or in, working....I try not to have an agenda other than feel myself in the here and now....keeping in touch with the reality around me and that I am apart of....

when elements come together, and the triggers are present..or new triggers are growing...I start to let the camera take over....the process knows better than me as to what and when to release...not that I'm not a part of the process but realizing that my very conciousness in reality is the process......

past triggers and still ongoing.....

Icons.....this started as crosses, stars etc...grew to many things.....I leave it up to you..

reflections...started as storefront windows, mirrors.....etc...grew to portraits...etc...

shadows....

legs....very heavy series started mid 70's...called Gamb'e Game still great trigger

the scene.....life, death....reality thru other's eyes.....

and then of course, all these and more triggers blend together in many different ways...

so when working.....I am never bored..never without subject matter but extremely selective on release....

some times I make...1 image on a shoot...other times 50 or more...editing before I release.....I am constantly experimenting...the 5D and digital photography is still in the experimental stages for me...I promised myself that i would not marry the process untill I got results I was happy with...

I am happy after a year or so...(been digital for along time but not until Dec 04 that I commited to do it solely...shut the darkroom down etc....

what makes a photograph important is the single fact that the photographer made it...the image is unique to this reality..there is no other like it...good or bad...doesn't really matter...only to the photographer.....

only when you share your vision in anyway, does it matter to the viewer....but the heart of the image belongs to the maker....

I know I'm rambling but it's raining and ...I'm preparing for 2 days of streetwork tomorrow and Monday.....

[Sean-Mcr]

Thanks for putting it together David.

I've got more then enough space on my gallery if any of you want to share your fav street shots i'd be happy to create a gallery showing the shots. If enough interest is shown. i'll create a gallery

A couple of good sites
http://www.in-public.com/site/index.php
http://www.johnbrownlow.com/streetphoto/index.php?sid=16c4a9d6f7050f598674317b2eb61d42

[SRPhotographic]

First one has got to be the easiest.

--- USE A TELEPHOTO LENS ---

Medium telephoto should do, around 200mm is probably ideal. You need this length to be able to take a decent head shot without disturbing or interupting your subject.

Gary.

Now this isn't exactly true. Shooting with a telephoto lens can actually be MORE obvious to your subject than shooting with a wide angle lens.
Think of it this way: In order to take a picture of someone with a 200mm lens, you must point the camera directly at him, even if he is off-center in the frame. With a wide angle lens (say 17mm), you can be standing right next to your subject without him knowing that he is in the picture because the camera is not pointed directly towards him.
Wide angle lenses also allow for hip-shooting, which is nearly indetectable. People have no idea that I am taking pictures if the camera isn't up to my face. The resulting image can be cropped for compositional reasons and yields truly stunning candids.

I would be more apt to say "USE A WIDE-ANGLE LENS" like the 17-40mm F4. You can set the aperture to f6.3 (a sharp aperture with just the right amount of depth) and your ISO to 200 or 400.

Also, don't be afraid of shaky photos. Photos that show a little bit of movement can be far more compelling than one where everything is frozen in time.

Lastly, Background Background Background! A really strong street photo takes not only an interesting subject, but an equally interesting background as well. The best street photos that I have seen have conflicting subjects and backgrounds that are very ironic, whether comically or seriously thus.

[Sean-Mcr]

I don't know what the poll will really say Davy boy. I think the debate alone is enough for most people to take something from. More then a poll will say me thinks

[condyk]

I'll think about ... hey tho', what about that sticky 'POTN best beginner lens' poll that tells every newbie here to buy a 28-135mm IS :lol: :lol: surely that convinces you of the validity of polling :p

[Sean-Mcr]

All depends on where you apply the polls Dave. In this context it will end up like a tip comp and the result not the real issue its just the advice, people can take the parts they like, change them a little maybe to suit their style ect chop and change...

You'll get a large number of people that rarely shoot the street voting, it won't say a great deal. I think the info is in the advice matey

[Streetshooter]

poll...smoll...I hate voting......just read and learn...that's it....

by the way...just got back from the shore, made some nice images...not processed yet just to DNG...but I lost the hood for the 24-105.......bummer...must have fallen off when I wasn't noticing...I'm very careful about my camera but the hood is gone....$60.00 from amazon with next day shipping....bummer...later...don

[condyk]

OK, I started bullet pointing these and after the first page I realised that I was mainly just editing some of the fluff out. So, didn't see that much added value in continuing, so I'm not going to do it.

Also I'm not going to bother with a poll. People can work through and pick and choose tips as they like. A poll could lead to people thinking they need to do certain things to shoot street/candid shots rather than experimenting and just trying stuff out and finding what works for them.

So, let's get on with the tips ...

[Claire]

Since I started doing more street and urban photography I've been taking quite a few photos. They're not all keepers, and they're not all stunning candids and wonderfully captured moments. In fact, majority of the content is probably very everyday life boring and mundane stuff.

Before I only wanted to get the great candids and frozen moments. I aimed for the artistic stuff. Then when I began to shoot regularly I realised I should post the mundane stuff as well. After all, they do reflect how things are nowadays, at this time and age, as well as how everyday life is. So, I force myself to fire off shots here and there. Sometimes you end up with some great keepers!

[Streetshooter]

Claire.....unny you mentioned that way of working...it's the most justified...for the future...

years ago around 1970 I became aware that in the future, the images I made would have more interest in the future than in the present...the images I am talking about is a series that I have been doing for over 35 years...a survey of sorts of where my life is and has taken me...I never thought of the work as fine art or anything but survey work...it keeps me busy when nothing excites my vision and has made me lots of money...I have images of Philadelphia before the current historic renovation....

anyway...it's a great thing to do and keep busy photographically......historically...well, somebody has to do it....

we should start a survey here on the forum..very interesting idea.....hmmmmm don

[BottomBracket]

.........So,out of curiosity,when you all are out shooting street/urban stuff,what do you find yourselves mainly shooting? Buildings? People? Crowds? etc. Do you see a pattern? Where do you like to shoot? Can we perhaps get tips on good type of places,or how to handle shooting in a certain situation/place.

l've found myself taking majority of shots in cafes and trainstations.


I have a set of subjects that I like to take pictures of. Street musicians, menidcants, hydrants, street art and greaffiti, interesting doorways, vendors, bikes, to name a few get me into camera mode. From these I expand into whatever looks interesting, it's an easy leap once you get into the groove. The key is to just take pictures of anything, and from all sorts of angles and compositions.

[elTwitcho]

So,out of curiosity,when you all are out shooting street/urban stuff,what do you find yourselves mainly shooting? Buildings? People? Crowds? etc. Do you see a pattern? Where do you like to shoot? Can we perhaps get tips on good type of places,or how to handle shooting in a certain situation/place.

I walk around aimlessly. When I find something I catch myself looking at and that my attention is drawn to, I question myself why I found it interesting, and then how to capture that with my camera. I find our eyes generally already know what is interesting, it's just linking that process with the actual picture taking process that becomes tricky for some.

[condyk]

I find our eyes generally already know what is interesting, it's just linking that process with the actual picture taking process that becomes tricky for some.

Agreed ... there is a certain Zen to this AFAIC but our perception is most often part conditioned by what we're look for too. Being open to all possibilities is the aim I suppose, as well of not losing sight of what you specifically want to shoot. Not always neasy.

There is also our internal and very subjective beliefs which dictate what is acceptable in a given situation. I may see something of interest but then I also may feel it is not right to take a shot. Some will take a shot in any situation and that is OK for them.

Nouna hits on an interesting point about the mundain. History may give todays mundainity a coating of fascination. I have a little project recording the many changes around my area and a few days back I found a guy on pBase with a dozen or shots of the same area but taken maybe 30 years ago. Was fascinating for me to see.

[Sp00ks]

I love capturing images of children. No I am not a pedophile. They exude a brilliance that can be captured no where else. Not to mention you can catch them doing some really funny stuff. I've done most of this either on the street or sitting back unnoticed at friendly function. Let's face it, parents are very, very aprehensive about letting their children be photographed, and they should be.

I always carry a pen and paper with me. If I get "caught" taking shots of anyone on the street or if I capture a shot that I think is going to turn out really well, I will ask that person if they have an email address and offer to send them a copy of the image. I figure, A: they have every right to a copy of an image that they are modeling for (knowingly or unknowingly) and B: I think it is just a nice jesture.

This scenerio pretty much includes any shots I take of people. I have found parents and couples are most apprecative. Ofcourse there are people that are just belligerent about being photographed. In these cases I will show them that I deleted the picture.

[Sean-Mcr]

Helen Levitt captured kids on the Streets of New York in a way that few ever have, if at all. You should get "Cross Town" it's a beautiful book by a truly gifted artist

It's a shame that you had to say that "you're not a paedophile" you shouldn't have to say that, media driven head lines ect has people scared. Sells papers of course

[Calzinger]

I have a bit of a problem when I shoot candids. I don't know if it's down to my fear of being noticed and then confronted, but I find myself with a lot of shots of people from behind or from the side, rarely from head on. I hardly attempt to take a picture of a person from right in front of their face. Though I would like to, let's face it, it's difficult to not be noticed.

The times that I have nailed a shot of someone from head on is when I shoot while walking, taking the shot in no longer than one second. Once I stand aside and set up a shot, I become noticed and the shot disappears. For instance, I was at Central Park a few days ago and wanted to take a picture of someone from the side, but she apparently saw me and turned around, back facing me. Lucky enough, she ended up laying down to read a book, which made a fantastic shot. Not the original one though.

If I'm doing a shot from head on, is it absolutely essential to be extremely quick in taking the shot? By "quick", I mean a total setup and shooting time of three seconds or less. I know I could be more agressive, and I know I should have been, but I still fear hostile confrontations which could easily happen in a place as diverse as NYC.

If someone clearly doesn't want their picture taken, for example like that gal who turned around, should I apologize? walk on and look for another shot? or still try to take the shot if it's even possible?

[Claire]

I think many times I end up taking shots of people from the back or side, but it gets quite boring eventually. So, I just shoot from the hip and cross my finger that the framing is ok. :) Or I just bring the camera up really quickly and if I see the persons looking at me, I may move around and pretend I'm looking for some other subject to shoot. Then back to the original subject.

If the person doesn't want his/her picture taken, then I just move.

[Sean-Mcr]

A boring shot from the the front is as equally as boring as a shot from behind, or side or any other way Chris. It's a simply a matter of time before you'll get the idea out of your head that them noticing you is cause for concern.

Your city is diverse, your city city helped put this genre on the map. It has been one of the pillars of this art. The diversity of your city is one of the very reasons why you should be out there capturing it. Know that Chris, and have faith in what you're doing and it will show in your photographs

[I Simonius]

Ok, here is the aspiration:

To get more people out shooting 'the streets/candids', doing it better than they have before and also enjoying shooting more than before.

Here's the process:

If you're a 'streets/candids' type shooter, all the time or just now and again, then drop in a tip or a load of tips here. I don't want pointless discussion about 'what is PJ, what is street, what is urban, what is candid, etc' - do that somewhere else. Lets just focus on delivering tips and let the punters, including all of us here, learn from them.

Remember the aspiration ;) KISS!! If you don't agree then start your own thread :p

Who's first - and examples are optional?

1.6 crop is best as the 85mm gives small canids lens of 135 - just right , but keep the 50mm handy too

I find if I use the iPOd too people take less notice of me, at least I don't hear them objecting

[condyk]

I think many times I end up taking shots of people from the back ...

I think you're just after blokes bum shots Nouna man :p But I agree that this is a big deal for street shooting, especially (maybe specifically) for we sensitive flowers who don't like to offend ;)

Anyway, I am still 'practicing' my approach to these situations (sh*t, I usually shoot wildlife for Gods sake!!!) but I decided that being in a busy place and ignoring the people streaming by, other than the person/people you want to shoot, can work very well. This will take effort initially, but after 'testing' this idea I know people walking by don't care about me/you standing there with a camera.

Second, scan long distance for interesting types but pretend you are looking and shooting elsewhere if they look towards you. As they pass you can continue to look as if you are shooting ahead.

Third, I now carry a bit of paper and pen and if I really want to shoot someone and they challenge me I will offer to email a shot to them, or burn to CD and send it (very cheap). Of course, I will also delete if they ask me to.

[Claire]

I think you're just after blokes bum shots Nouna man :p But I agree that this is a big deal for street shooting, especially (maybe specifically) for we sensitive flowers who don't like to offend ;)

Third, I now carry a bit of paper and pen and if I really want to shoot someone and they challenge me I will offer to email a shot to them, or burn to CD and send it (very cheap). Of course, I will also delete if they ask me to.

I think the whole offering to email, burn a CD and send the photo to them if they challenge you is a good plan. Same with the deleting. I have thankfully never been challenged apart from being asked to leave a McDonalds.

And no, I am not trying to shoot male bums. Sorry, but that's not exactly the first thing I look at when checking out a guy (yeah, yeah, there goes your whole image of me as some glamour/nude-crazed male hunter). I actually put eyes and a nice smile as my main point of focus for attractiveness. Faces my friend, faces.

[Calzinger]

A boring shot from the the front is as equally as boring as a shot from behind, or side or any other way Chris. It's a simply a matter of time before you'll get the idea out of your head that them noticing you is cause for concern.

Your city is diverse, your city city helped put this genre on the map. It has been one of the pillars of this art. The diversity of your city is one of the very reasons why you should be out there capturing it. Know that Chris, and have faith in what you're doing and it will show in your photographs
Sean, I think the diversity of a place like NYC is the exact reason that I have such concern. Some people may give you that look (you all know the "look" that I'm speaking of), but you don't know if someone is going to start confronting you, god forbid physically. I think you're right though Sean, that I don't have the confidence or aggression to do what I'm doing in the city, yet. I still wonder if my struggle to capture a life is because of my lack of strategy to getting a photo or my lack of confidence in violating someone's space.

Anyway, I am still 'practicing' my approach to these situations (sh*t, I usually shoot wildlife for Gods sake!!!) but I decided that being in a busy place and ignoring the people streaming by, other than the person/people you want to shoot, can work very well. This will take effort initially, but after 'testing' this idea I know people walking by don't care about me/you standing there with a camera.

Second, scan long distance for interesting types but pretend you are looking and shooting elsewhere if they look towards you. As they pass you can continue to look as if you are shooting ahead.

Third, I now carry a bit of paper and pen and if I really want to shoot someone and they challenge me I will offer to email a shot to them, or burn to CD and send it (very cheap). Of course, I will also delete if they ask me to.
Dave (you are Dave, right? ;)), I have tried such techniques as you mentioned secondly, and I must admit, it can work nicely if you don't want anyone to throw comments at you. Sometimes it doesn't work too great, especially if the traffic of people is moving quickly. It's very obvious for someone to see that I'm "panning" with them as they walk towards me (I face the opposite direction of traffic). I usually continue to shoot, find another subject behind to make it look like I'm just shooting everone. Still though, they tend to look at me as I pan with them, which tends to ruin the shot.

How do you mean by someone that "challenges" you? I've mostly engaged in peaceful conversations with people that show interest in what my cousin and I are doing with our "big" cameras. I have even given a few the address to my website (which one surprinsingly kept through memory, calzinger.net isn't too easy to remember ;)) to see the photos that I take.

Recently I made a series of wallet sized prints of me while I'm shooting ([link] (http://photo.calzinger.net/_sitecontent/_cache/_photos/me/864.576._MG_0947.jpg)). I write my email address and website address on the back just incase anyone shows interest and would like to actually see my photos. You can look at it as a business card. That may be easier than pen and paper, not to mention more fancy and professional.

People ask you to delete your picture of them? How are they even supposed to know if you actually deleted it? Sure, it's out of respect, but if someone is going to start attacking my hobby, I'm not sure if I owe them the respect of deleting the shot.

I think the whole offering to email, burn a CD and send the photo to them if they challenge you is a good plan. Same with the deleting. I have thankfully never been challenged apart from being asked to leave a McDonalds.
You were asked to leave a McDonalds? I find that a bit extreme. Were you taking pictures inside?

[Sean-Mcr]

It's always been diverse Chris and its always been shot. You're not invading people personally space, you're on the streets of NYC the great metoropolis. You share that space you're in that space. It is best in a crowded space because personal space is diminished.

Never for one second does it enter my head that i'm disturbing anybody. That would be too distracting Chris.

Just try this, stick the kit lens on, get somewhere crowded somewhere that would not be unusual to find a photographer and just shoot. Stand proud change your lens back and forth look like you're working and you will just shoot trust me, it will happen

Practice with that kit lens

[Sean-Mcr]

The shot below, the kid did not notice me nor did the "artist" it's a matter of timing.

http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/image/58839140

This shot
http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/image/58783938

I had to wait until two things happened, firstly that were engrossed in what they were doing, and most importantly that they actually did something worth capturing

It really is a waiting and timing game

This person totally engorssed in what he was doing
http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/image/58787487

This last shot, i could not really have been any closer. She was engrossed in what she was doing on a very crowded street http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/image/58786200

Choose your subjects wisley , you need to train your eye to spot the little things that are best seen when you're close to somebody.

[Calzinger]

I don't struggle as much in a crowded area for the obvious reasons. My problems seem to occur when I start shooting in a more isolated area, for example, Central Park. There were plenty of shot opportunities of people relaxing on the massive boulders throughout the park, just enjoying the beautiful day. It's very easy to become noticed when not that many are around and I'm pointing in their direction. It's very apparent that I'm not taking a picture of a tree next to them.

I don't want to disturb their peace, I just want to capture it. How do you suggest I go about doing that Sean?

I must agree that shooting those that are engrossed in what they're doing can be easiest. Whether that be someone smoking a cigarette (http://photo.calzinger.net/_sitecontent/_cache/_photos/nyc_candid/864.576._MG_3108_bw.jpg) or someone fixing her hair (http://photo.calzinger.net/_sitecontent/_cache/_photos/nyc_candid/864.576._MG_3103_bw.jpg), their distraction can make things easier to get a natural photo. Not saying that those shots are any good, they are quite boring to be honest, just using them as an example.

I understand you have to time your shots perfectly, but how do you time them properly and still shoot quickly and efficiently? Obviously you cannot stand there next to someone for too long before they notice you, no matter how distracted they may be. Is that just part of a photographer's skill? You say it is a "waiting" game, but how much waiting does one actually do? How much waiting can one actually do?

This is one of my more perfectly timed shots. the Feeling of Music (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160315)
I of course had plenty of time to make sure I hit the moment. These street performers won't stare at you or talk to you since they're obviously busy with their thing, no matter how close you are to them or how long you stand shooting them. For me, shooting people has been a much more different (and even difficult) experience, especially in more isolated areas like the previously mentioned Central Park.

[Sean-Mcr]

Well the street performers are used to being shot Chris so you know that even if you are noticed that they won't be a problem. Not that their is a problem anyway if people do notice you. Like everything there is a wrong place and a right place. I'd not walk in to the middle of a field and shoot a couple i spotted- but if i was sat next to them in that field having a picnic, chilling out ect then i'd shoot them for sure

I meter of my hand constantly to get the exposure i need , i always shoot in manual . I use my 35mm and i know pretty much what i'll see before i lift the camera to my eye. So i know where to be and where to set the focus point before i lift the camera and i know the exposure is going to be right-well 95% of the time

Alls that i can really say about disturbing somebody is that sometimes you can't make omelets with out cracking eggs. One of the things that all us are going to encounter when we shoot the street ect is that might have to explain ourselves. I'll tell you that the vast majority will be flattered that they've just played a part in this art. There are many many people that i have emailed shots to, there are people that have noticed me shooting others and asked me to shoot them, which i did.

"You've just played a part in art" is going to be the tag line on some cards that i'm going to have made for me

[jafrknb]

Interesting thread here,thanks for starting this and also for those who shared thier tips and tricks
Now for a couple questions
1.In one of the post's someone mentioned they had made good money with streetphotography, what is the Market for this?

2.Is there a Market for Stock Editorial?

3. On the confrontation issue I think my big concern would be getting robbed and losing gear that financially would be hard to replace.Can an Amature get insurance to cover replacement cost?
4.I did not see anyone mention model release's,so this must be editorial right?

[Calzinger]

Sean, while I haven't confronted anyone because of my shooting, I do wonder how such a confrontation would take place. I don't mind explaining myself. As you have said, we are doing the right thing by shooting the streets. Let's face it though, there are the fair share of ignorant beings that see what they see and don't need an explanation. They judge on sight and make their own comments. Of course I must be as ignorant as they are in that case, but what if one is to go beyond words? for instance, putting their hand in front of my camera, following you around until you reach an empty area. I guess that wouldn't be an issue in a crowded area, but must I limit my candids to crowded areas? As you said though, there is a right place and a wrong place. Even though a good shot opportunity may be in the wrong place, should I just sigh and walk on?

Should I do anything if someone turns around when I point the camera towards them? Am I obligated to apologize? Should I introduce myself as a photographer and explain why I wanted to take their picture? even give them one of my "business cards"?

The whole "turn around" thing has happened to me countless times Sean, and I always wonder what I should do in that situation. Usually I'll just walk on and find another shot, not too difficult in Manhattan anyway.

[BottomBracket]

Chris, try using a wide lens. This allows you to put the subject on the side of the frame nicely without actually pointing the camera directly at the person. You can build confidence from this technique, work towards actually pointing the camera directly at the subject nonchalantly.

Anyway, I would just point the camera and shoot. Most will smile, some will look away, very few will get really angry. If the person really gets mad and shouts, just walk away. This rarely happens though.

[Sean-Mcr]

had a serious fight Chris when my judgement went out the window, i went against everything that i normally do. I shot two guys hugging, i crossed an entrance of empty side street on my way to some bars with some friends. A few hundred feet Up the entry as we call it was these two guys hugging

I had just a second to think and i shot them, and i was that far away that i could not tell that they were drunk... They noticed me and ran towards me, i had time to get the camera off my neck give to to my partner and she ran off with her friend my friend stayed. They were pretty drunk and i tried to calm them down, but one of them fancied himself as a bit of a tough guy. Basically ended knocking him flying because he was in my face too much. Trust me i'd tried to reason with the guy but it it was my only option by this point

Now, with in half an hr i was back shooting people;

I was too far away to judge the scene, i never had enough time to judge it. I've i'd have been with them outside at bar or at a concert i know for sure i'd have got them and notice me or not they would not have been a problem.

Alls i can tell you is that the only time i have ever had any trouble was that day and that was when i was too far from the subject.

The real thing is this, it is not going to be being disturbed that upsets people. It's the objection to having their photo taken. Now that has happened to me once out 100's if not 1000's of times. Basically as i see it is, i'm close enough to you and you look up or move your head then with in half a second you're going to see me, and i will give you the chance to refuse the shot or to ask me to delete the one i've taken... Nobody ever has Chris when i've used that approach, and i've been spotted a good few times after the event

Shooting people on the street up close takes confidence it's not for the faint hearted that is for sure. But it's something that comes naturally after time, it's not simply down to personality. Robert Frank was a very shy man, also had that touch of madness and genius that great artists have. Hardly ever gave an interview, yet the work he produced is just astounding.

Every thought you give to being noticed will have domino effect on how you shoot for the rest of the day. You do something enough it will become second nature to, it is to me now.

I know you like using the 70-200. Try this just for one day, stick the kit lens on and leave the zoom at home, just for one day. Don't worry about sharpness and all that jazz.

Just use it for a day, set yourself some goals, take say 50-100 shots doesn't matter how good or not they are just shoot. Do it in the crowds, don't shoot street acts, shoot ordinary people, try to tell small stories in your photos. It's when you're up close to people that you often spot the little things that can just make an image

Just try it for a day or a week, it will be a good exercise

[I Simonius]

Chris, try using a wide lens. This allows you to put the subject on the side of the frame nicely without actually pointing the camera directly at the person. You can build confidence from this technique, work towards actually pointing the camera directly at the subject nonchalantly.

Anyway, I would just point the camera and shoot. Most will smile, some will look away, very few will get really angry. If the person really gets mad and shouts, just walk away. This rarely happens though.

If Im shooting buskers ~I usually give em som e change before I start shooting, biut for most people I just look at something behind them once I hacve takenmy eye from the camera ( If I dont want them to think im shooting them, sometimes they dont mind of course!

[BottomBracket]

If Im shooting buskers ~I usually give em som e change before I start shooting, biut for most people I just look at something behind them once I hacve takenmy eye from the camera ( If I dont want them to think im shooting them, sometimes they dont mind of course!

Yes, that's a good trick, look past the person, and pretend to be interested in something else. That would give them the illusion that they weren't the subject, and hesitate in confronting you. In that moment of that hesitation, move on.

[I Simonius]

Yes, that's a good trick, look past the person, and pretend to be interested in something else. That would give them the illusion that they weren't the subject, and hesitate in confronting you. In that moment of that hesitation, move on.

If they head my way looking grumpy or say anything I give em a look which says ' you? Interesting? Forget it!':lol:- as if they must be crazy to think I'd want their pic

[Calzinger]

Pio, I used to do that before I got my 70-200, and it worked pretty well. Since it's fairly wide, I could put people to the side of the frame (as I normally would), and it would seem that they were even in the frame. But with the 70-200, you know that you're getting your picture taken from a mile away. There's no saying that I was pointing to someone next to you or behind you, you know that you're getting your picture taken.

Sean, it must be my lack of aggression to talking a shot. It must be my fear of confrontation that has been preventing me from really capturing a life. As you said, you must of course be aggressive but efficienty, smart and not stupid. I plan to go for shots more and not just hesitate to avoid invading someone's space. To be honest, I have stepped down from a few shots just because I didn't want to bother the person. And I think those shots really could've been something. I must be more aggressive, but I must know when and where to be aggressive and when and where I have to let go and step down.

Did you suggest that I should give them the chance to refuse before I take the shot? Or should I just take it without question and move on?

By the way, that's some story there Sean. Actually, that's exactly what I would like to avoid. I only wonder what could happen if my judgement is poor as it was for you at that time. I always have my monopod with me, but it shouldn't have to come to that. How exactly do I judge a situation as welcoming or obtrusive?

I'm going back to Manhattan again tomorrow. It's supposed to rain like heck, so looks like I won't be able to exercise my aggression until a few weeks, or months unfortunately, later. I'll be indoors for the day though. Good thing is that there are more people in this crammed building (Jacob Javitts Center) than there would be in the streets.

[Sean-Mcr]

It's not aggression Chris, i don't think to myself, "you're getting you photo taken like it or not" i just think about the shot. No i don't think you should ask first, i just mean being that close is going to increase the chance of you being seen and if, but there really is nothing wrong with that. They'll very rarely know you ever shot them, but if you do give them the shot or delete the shot. Get everything else out of your mind that's all i can tell you

If you walk around crowds you'll have that little time when something happens close to you that you'll take the shot instinctively. Could i have got the below shot at 3am in the morning in the a deserted square, pretty much doubt it.
http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/image/58942820

Could not walk this close to a family if they were sat in deserted street and shoot them.
http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/image/58836424

Would be unwise to shoot children at certain times, but public events ect is no problem
http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/image/55663619
http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/image/58289539

The above shot was passed on to the parent of the kid far right

You do something often enough it becomes natural to you, that's all i can really say

[signet35]

Speaking of confrontations -

1 in the morning, just finished work and my assistant is dropping me off in front of my building, which is across the street from a tony private political club;

we're chatting about the session, and I casually stick the camera out the window to snap a test shot of a manual focus lens I just got for my 20D - there's a tree planted in the foreground, and the masssive wood/brass door of the club, both moodily lit by a streetlight; perfect test shot.

The door to the club opens a moment later someone leaves, I keep snapping, think nothing of it.

We keep yakking, and a while later, there's a rapping on my window, and this very irate little man says "I want you to know the police have been called!"

WTF?!?

He says that when he opened the door, I started taking photos; and that he's been watching me take pictures from his office; and we're obviously spying

I say NO - I was taking photos when YOU opened your door.
And I happen be your neighbor for 8 years, and I'm trying out a new lens by shooting your beautiful oak & brass door.

By the time the cops arrive (dressed like a Baghdad military patrol) the little twerp is peeing himself in outrage, and I'm laughing at the absurdity of the moment

The cops hear his side, my side, and then say "so no problems?"

Yep, no problems - goodnite.

Good thing they didn't check the car; we'd just finished a particularly odiferous bit of hydro....

[I Simonius]

Good thing they didn't check the car; we'd just finished a particularly odiferous bit of hydro....

:lol:

[Wino]

In Japan, I used to shoot some of the same areas frequently and I would come back later and give prints to the shoeshine lady, or the guy in the noodle stand if I got a good shot of them. Once you've done that, they tend to not get so nervous when you are around and you can start hanging around their shops grabbing photos of them and customers.

I would also sometimes go to a park near my office at lunchtime and photograph children at play. A man pointing his camera at children tends to make people very nervous, but I would bring really cute prints of the kinds and hand them to the mothers. Pretty soon they started waving and saying "Hi" to me when I showed up, and didn't get at all suspicious to see me there with my camera.

Similarly, you could put a small photo album of your best street photography in your backpack, and if someone calls you out for what you are doing, show them the "art."
It will often chill them out fairly quickly.

[I Simonius]

In Japan, I used to shoot some of the same areas frequently and I would come back later and give prints to the shoeshine lady, or the guy in the noodle stand if I got a good shot of them. Once you've done that, they tend to not get so nervous when you are around and you can start hanging around their shops grabbing photos of them and customers.

I would also sometimes go to a park near my office at lunchtime and photograph children at play. A man pointing his camera at children tends to make people very nervous, but I would bring really cute prints of the kinds and hand them to the mothers. Pretty soon they started waving and saying "Hi" to me when I showed up, and didn't get at all suspicious to see me there with my camera.

Similarly, you could put a small photo album of your best street photography in your backpack, and if someone calls you out for what you are doing, show them the "art."
It will often chill them out fairly quickly.

S'right... Iwanted to shoot some travellers so yesterday I shot NEAR them , shots of just a chair in a field etc, -got talking, now when I go back they will not find me threatening;)

[Sekabin]

In Japan, I used to shoot some of the same areas frequently and I would come back later and give prints to the shoeshine lady, or the guy in the noodle stand if I got a good shot of them. Once you've done that, they tend to not get so nervous when you are around and you can start hanging around their shops grabbing photos of them and customers.

I would also sometimes go to a park near my office at lunchtime and photograph children at play. A man pointing his camera at children tends to make people very nervous, but I would bring really cute prints of the kinds and hand them to the mothers. Pretty soon they started waving and saying "Hi" to me when I showed up, and didn't get at all suspicious to see me there with my camera.

Similarly, you could put a small photo album of your best street photography in your backpack, and if someone calls you out for what you are doing, show them the "art."
It will often chill them out fairly quickly.

I've thought about doing this before. And now you've said it works... I think I will! Great advice.

[condyk]

I invented a new one yesterday. I walk around with camera on a handstrap at my side usually and that is reasonably unobtrusive. By coincidence I had my camera in a double sainsbury's bag with my cheque book so when I took it out and was walking around with camera and empty bag in hand no one noticed I had the camera. Very easy to lift and shoot for some nice candid style shots.

[Streetshooter]

it's almost impossible to go un-noticed with a camera...so I do the opposite....
I dress kinda like a tourist and act like a tourist...even in my own city....who pays attention to tourist anyway?

that way, you actually become invisible because you are the same as the background people...it allows me to get very close if I want to and allows me to act as if I don't know what I'm doing...sometimes when there's a scene developing...I fiddle with my camera like it's doing something that i don't understand....then when the scene is right...I release....works everytime.....

a few weeks ago I was making images and did a great image of a guy fighting with a woman...I got close....and then he said to me..."what the F**K are you doing man?"

I replied..this friggin' camera is a piece of crap....and kept fiddling with it...like it was broke or something...in 2 seconds...he forgot all about me....

the tension was released in a few seconds and so was the shutter.....don

[Sean-Mcr]

Depends where i am in town, but i know this town it's my home, i know where it doesn't do to look like a tourist, because a tourist would be fair game. The streets are my home, they're where i played as a kid, i was brought up in the inner city i have that mentality no matter where i go. If i'm noticed it's almost 99% that i'll have the shot already, i won't stop during a shot that's for sure.

I've got faith in what i'm doing, And yes its true that i have a cocky nature and it does help. Ultimately i'm willing to defend that belief

[B-Brother]

I really love this thread, cuz i have a different case, maybe u will love to hear it.

Im originally from UK, i dont like english, so u may say im a tourist when im taking candid shots, but for some who see me daily, Its NOT lol, first, i was happy cuz no one asked me, and i was like a tourist, but since im studying here for long, and always i have my cam in my bag, people knew me :p, and then started asking me, why youre taking photos, are u in a magazine ? or what ?

I dont know if my answer is enough when i say "Its my hobby, i dont publish photos without permissions :|", but most of them are like "Its ok then"...

Now i feel more comfortable using 400 mm or more to take candid shots, cuz nobody even mentions this. And if it happened, u say i take photos for all over the place !!!!

I was in trouble before with skaters, one asked me to give him 5 pounds for the photo, and i was like, hell no, do u think im taking photos for tony hawk ?? here is ur photo has been deleted, and i showed him that i deleted his photo .......

But, till now, i got maybe 5 or more candid photos, one won the 2nd place in the #41 POTN candid competetion :p . I use manual mode as well, i try before, and keep is as the conditions didint change...

[Bu Yao]

Fit in with area and work fast. If someone see you maybe you dont fit in or you not fast.

[I Simonius]

Ok, here is the aspiration:

To get more people out shooting 'the streets/candids', doing it better than they have before and also enjoying shooting more than before.

Here's the process:

If you're a 'streets/candids' type shooter, all the time or just now and again, then drop in a tip or a load of tips here. I don't want pointless discussion about 'what is PJ, what is street, what is urban, what is candid, etc' - do that somewhere else. Lets just focus on delivering tips and let the punters, including all of us here, learn from them.

Remember the aspiration ;) KISS!! If you don't agree then start your own thread :p

Who's first - and examples are optional?

I thought there already was a whole thread on street shooting?

I don't mind another! Ahhh wiat 0 this is it!- who's mad? Who's maaaaaad?

MY TIP: get out there!

[I Simonius]

I invented a new one yesterday. I walk around with camera on a handstrap at my side usually and that is reasonably unobtrusive. By coincidence I had my camera in a double sainsbury's bag with my cheque book so when I took it out and was walking around with camera and empty bag in hand no one noticed I had the camera. Very easy to lift and shoot for some nice candid style shots.

But where do you put the S's bag while you're shooting? ( and don't say on your head!)

[I Simonius]

it's almost impossible to go un-noticed with a camera...so I do the opposite....
I dress kinda like a tourist and act like a tourist...even in my own city....who pays attention to tourist anyway?

that way, you actually become invisible because you are the same as the background people...it allows me to get very close if I want to and allows me to act as if I don't know what I'm doing...sometimes when there's a scene developing...I fiddle with my camera like it's doing something that i don't understand....then when the scene is right...I release....works everytime.....

a few weeks ago I was making images and did a great image of a guy fighting with a woman...I got close....and then he said to me..."what the F**K are you doing man?"

I replied..this friggin' camera is a piece of crap....and kept fiddling with it...like it was broke or something...in 2 seconds...he forgot all about me....

the tension was released in a few seconds and so was the shutter.....don

needs a film making of streetshooters and their art. That would be a classic scene!

[condyk]

I thought there already was a whole thread on street shooting?

I don't mind another! Ahhh wiat 0 this is it!- who's mad? Who's maaaaaad?

MY TIP: get out there!

I think you've lost the plot kid ... you already posted a tip in this one if you look. Are you confused? At least you realised!

Anyway, I put the bag in my pocket or hold it in my hand when I shoot. It is my default carry bag for gear, but then I don't walk around with a 500mm and 20 other lenses everytime I go out like some of these 'members' (that's a tip BTW ... don't do it ... travel light!)

[I Simonius]

I think you've lost the plot kid ... you already posted a tip in this one if you look. Are you confused? At least you realised!

Anyway, I put the bag in my pocket or hold it in my hand when I shoot. It is my default carry bag for gear, but then I don't walk around with a 500mm and 20 other lenses everytime I go out like some of these 'members' (that's a tip BTW ... don't do it ... travel light!)


I got to the thread by a different link and thought it was a new thread, it wasn't til I looked at it properly ( after I had posted!) that I realised my folly.:rolleyes:

Like you I don't carry lots of lenses while Streetshooting, I usually choose just one but may sometimes take one spare.

If I take a zoom (e.g. the 17-40 what I will do is set it at one FL and leave it there. I find changing lenses in a hurry to get a street shot very rarely works, you either have the FL you need on, or you don't. So I prefer to work at one FL, it also helps me visualise better I find

In preparation for aquiring the 35 f1.4 I have been using my zoom at 35 mm and I like it! ( the FL)

50mm was always my preferred default FL in the past but I think 35mm may be set to be the new preferred FL for me!


I'd like to know what the preferred FL is for other shooters

[Bu Yao]

I don't have problem take street picture because nobody here suspicious of any body. I live in small city of 5 million, one million live in urban area. Fact, parents pick up children for you take picture. Complete stranger and I take picture of child. Everyone proud and happy you take picture.

No problems with theft unless you leave camera unwatched on street. Noboidy stranger here because we all fit in. You dont fit in, you get run over by taxi or pedicab.

[I Simonius]

I don't have problem take street picture because nobody here suspicious of any body. I live in small city of 5 million, one million live in urban area. Fact, parents pick up children for you take picture. Complete stranger and I take picture of child. Everyone proud and happy you take picture.

No problems with theft unless you leave camera unwatched on street. Noboidy stranger here because we all fit in. You dont fit in, you get run over by taxi or pedicab.

yeah used to be like that here once!

[Sean-Mcr]

If you're any good you should be able to fit in anywhere.

[I Simonius]

If you're any good you should be able to fit in anywhere.

Great quote from Diane arbus in your sig.... but didn't she kill herself?:(

[condyk]

If you're any good you should be able to fit in anywhere.

You ever shoot in a women only sauna Seany?

:p

[Sean-Mcr]

I'm sure i could find a place to fit in my boy;) :p

[Sean-Mcr]

Great quote from Diane arbus in your sig.... but didn't she kill herself?:(


She did yes, a tortured genius.

[I Simonius]

She did yes, a tortured genius.

Tortured definitely:(

[Streetshooter]

(just watchin' and readin'...waiting for something interesting to happen.....)

[Sean-Mcr]

Tortured definitely:(




Genius definitely and tortured, as so many geniuses have been in the past from Hemingway to Van gogh

As Richard Avedon once said

Nothing about her life, her photographs, or her death was accidental or ordinary.

I see you're a fan of Winogrand, another genius. You should buy if you haven't already "Figments from the Real World' . It's actually Gary and not gerry by the way;)

[I Simonius]

Genius definitely and tortured, as so many geniuses have been in the past from Hemingway to Van gogh

As Richard Avedon once said

Nothing about her life, her photographs, or her death was accidental or ordinary.

I see you're a fan of Winogrand, another genius. You should buy if you haven't already "Figments from the Real World' . It's actually Gary and not gerry by the way;)

I aslways thought it was gary but see it spelled differently in different places- I research it when I get time ( when will that be?:??????)

[Meaty0]

In general, what ARE the rules if someone gives you the evil look and says they don't want their photo taken? I was under the impression that public spaces are open season, but if someone objects, do you HAVE to delete the photo?


Unfortunately, many years ago, I had a bad experience with urban photography and had one very nasty person smash my camera. Thankfully it was only an Olympus OM10 (a cheapy), but the lens was ruined and that wasn't cheap.

[Calzinger]

While I don't know the exact rules, I would ALWAYS delete a picture if someone objects. I'd rather lose a shot than a camera or lens or even my life. I'd also assume that the rules or laws vary from country to country. You can get away with it in NYC as long as you stay smart.

I assume you didn't have the next strap on then, eh? Maybe that was a good thing. It could've been your camera and your face that were smashed. :|

[Meaty0]

I assume you didn't have the next strap on then, eh? Maybe that was a good thing. It could've been your camera and your face that were smashed. :|

Well I offered to remove the film...not good enough apparently...I was to be "taught a lesson". And no neckstrap.

[bachscuttler]

I am a relative newcomer to street photography.
I really wish I'd read this thread first as I taught myelf the hard way and made mistakes along the way.

Apart from the technical aspects I just applied commonsense and learned from my mistakes.

I was very nervous and uncomfortable at first but am growing in confidence now I have a better understanding of how people will react.

I still have a very long way to go but the rewards are worth it.

The first mistake I made was taking pictures on a local fairground.
I was actually inerested in the rides and the lighting but inadvertantly got lots of kids in the shots.
I was treated with suspicion and accused of being a phaedophile and ended up with a group of around 20 adults around me.

The best option under the circumstances was to use my judgement on the spot and delete the shots in their presence, although I could have stood my ground legally.

One of the lessons I learned was not to look so nervous and suspicous and that when confronted, honesty and open-ness is always the best policy...arouse their suspicions even further and you could be in deep trouble!

The other was avoid shooting kids!

Sometimes I get people deliberately standing in my line of view to sheild my intended subject (wives/girlfreinds etc) on other occasions (happened only last weekend) people if in a small group will ask me to take their photograph.

I try to rely on my instincts.
Here is a case study (http://www.bachs.shutterschool.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_1186.jpg) of a clown in Aberdeen city centre a few weeks ago...
He was tanked up on alcohol and showing off his Kung Fu skills much to the amusement of passers-by.

I took this shot from behind and many would immediately say 'you should have got a frontal shot'
The circumstances dictated otherwise.
It was taken in a Scottish City on the day of Englands' last game in the world cup.
Many Scotland fans including the subject were supporting the opposing team (Portugal) much to the annoyance of the English.
Shortly after this shot was taken, things turned sour.
If I had got in front of him and he had challenged me and heard my English accent I could have been in trouble, compounded by the fact I had my family with me...a situation I really wouldn't want to put them in.

The point I am trying to make is be bold, but trust your instincts.
For the 2 or 3 dodgy experiences I have had, they are far outweighed by the positive and sometimes amusing experiences.

Seany and others have covered everything else I could have added.

[I Simonius]

If you're any good you should be able to fit in anywhere.

aha! try telling a troll that !:lol:
(a REAL troll not a web troll)

[I Simonius]

I am a relative newcomer to street photography.
snip

The first mistake I made was taking pictures on a local fairground.
I was actually inerested in the rides and the lighting but inadvertantly got lots of kids in the shots.
I was treated with suspicion and accused of being a phaedophile and ended up with a group of around 20 adults around me.


yeah - I am REALLY fed up that the simple act of a MALE pointing a camera at a kid now instantly labels you as a perv

Kids used to be some of the best subjects for candids, it was innocent and no one assumed otherwise - now it's OTT (over the top!) knee jerk reactions

NOT EVERY MALE WITH A CAMERA IS A PERV!

God it makes me angry that the media has dooen this to society -
it is one thing to inform , quite another to stigmatise.There is a BIG difference between common sense precaution and paranoia!

You're right too that you feel so nervous of getting a kid in your shot if you do and someone challenges you you look guilty because you're nervous to begin with:rolleyes:

However the issue of what one's rights are with regard to taking pic in public , I would argue that if someone objects to you shooting kids _STOP. , but if it s adults it really depends on how big they are!

Generally if someone is aggressive I tend to stand my ground, but if they're polite I will do as they ask or apologise. Aggressive people tend to evoke an aggressive reaction from me I'm afraid, although Im a lot more mellow now Im over 50.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz OH what was I saying ? Oh yes... (;) :lol: ;) :lol: ;) )

It's rare though for me to get any more than a raised eyebrow or slight look of annoyance, but by then Ive usually got what I wanted anyway

I doubt I would keep shooting someone who was decidely objecting, unless they were doing something illegal or offensive, in which case it goes back to how big they are!:D :D

[I Simonius]

Genius definitely and tortured, as so many geniuses have been in the past from Hemingway to Van gogh

As Richard Avedon once said

Nothing about her life, her photographs, or her death was accidental or ordinary.

I see you're a fan of Winogrand, another genius. You should buy if you haven't already "Figments from the Real World' . It's actually Gary and not gerry by the way;)

I went to the photographers gallery in londonium (LONDON) recently and bought a compilation of three books by Lewis baltz and a book 'sticks and stones' by Lee Freidlander

I didnt see theone you mentioned for Winograd but will look out for it again on my next trip

I didnt mean to be doing a put down on Diane Arbus earlier, its just that I had to blank her in my mind a long time ago. I read her biograpghy and (Im not joking) it made me so depressed I couldn't handle it. (sh*t was happening in my life too). Since then I had blocked her - I only now realised it.

[Carlson]

Well ive probably taken about 5000 street/candid shots in the last year mostly in the same place. I Before I had a P&S so couldnt help but get close.

1. Dont be afraid. If they dont want you to take there picture belive me they will tell you. Just dont be rude when doing it. If they are on the doing something and you taking there picture might interupt them, wait.

2. A good Zoom lens is always good for Candid shots. 200-300 works good

Portait/Candid shots in Harjuku (http://picturetokyo.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=24), Ive even spent an entire day on the other side of the most crowed intersection in the world and just take pictures because i had nothing else to do. a couple of those can be seen here (http://picturetokyo.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=30). On my new site i will post lots more. I love to take pictures of people I dont even know (http://picturetokyo.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=23)or only meet for a couple mins.

[Plan9]

For me, when I am out photographing, I will often times look for a good composition first, then wait for a scene. Wait long enough and you're almost guaranteed to make a good picture.

Try to break the 6 foot 6 rule. That is, when most people are taking photos, they will stand a normal height and 6 feet away. Try to find different angles. Down low, up high, close up, far away framed by something, or a combination of it all.

[sandro9mm]

that's the only field that interests me... I hate landscapes and nature photos... human is always my main subject :)

I mainly shoot in AV mode, bokeh control is very important for me... sometimes u want to isolate ur subject to stress personal features and sometimes u want to include person in his natural setting... so its VERY IMPORTANT!

good hunting everyone!

[witkedpix]

Hello, this is my first post and I'd just like to say that I am so glad that I have FINALLY found a photog forum where it isn't a bunch of whiney people fighting over what camera is "the best". I found this wonderful place a week or so ago and I absolutely love it :)

I always shoot street. Some of the things I do are the following:

EXPLORATION

I decide on a starting neighborhood. Sometimes I feel like Chelsea, sometimes like the East Village. Each neighborhood here has its own vibe. Ritzy, poor, arrogant, devil-may-care, you'll find a mix of each anywhere you go. Sometimes I like to start anywhere and just wander around until I am lost. Getting lost allows me to explore. I get to see things that I would normally never see.


BEING THE LION, BEING THE CHAMELEON

When I have found an area I want to shoot, I let myself be "seen". That is, I get in my shooting position (usually squatting with the elbow of my camera-holding hand resting on my knee) and scan the area. People see me. The artist. doing what he does. They may not understand it, but they respect it. In a matter of minutes, they are used to me. If someone has that worried look on their face that I am about to take a photo with them in it, I quickly point my lens down and scan the area again. When they are relieved and continue doing what they were doing, I take the shot, and I am gone.

Sometimes, however, I don't want to be noticed too much. Either too many people are looking at me (innocently though, as one might observe and artist painting a park scene outside) or I don't want to disturb the neighborhood or the people at work (like in chinatown alleyway fish markets) so when it comes to that I like to blend in as much as possible. I'll get into and remain in the shooting position against a wall for as much as 5 minutes, waiting for the perfect subject. Or studying my intended subject. Sometimes instead of staying in the shooting position I walk around the area my subject is, looking for the best angle to shoot them from. They see me as quick as they forget about me. Then I return to my chosen spot and take the shot.


INSPIRATION

I love to listen to music when I shoot. Music helps me maintain that "shooting groove" I get after an hour of taking in the streets I want to shoot. I usually go for something cool and relaxing, from the Jazz and Trip Hop genres like Miles Davis and Portishead. Sometimes, though, I opt to not listen to music at all and use the sounds of the city as my inspiration. The hustle and bustle. The sounds of traffic. Of alarms and public transportation. The mixed talking of the crowds, though incomprehensible, can tell you the mood of the area if you listen to it closely enough.


I'll definitely add more later. This is my favourite subject ;)

[Plan9]

that's the only field that interests me... I hate landscapes and nature photos... human is always my main subject :)

I mainly shoot in AV mode, bokeh control is very important for me... sometimes u want to isolate ur subject to stress personal features and sometimes u want to include person in his natural setting... so its VERY IMPORTANT!

good hunting everyone!

If control is so important to you...have you ever considered shooting M mode? It lets you control a lot more than just depth of field, which is what I think you meant when you said bokeh...

[T-rev]

I am only a newbie to photography as a serious hobby, but I do think that it is very unprofessional/rude/impolite to take a photo of a person without their prior consent.

Do you not think that a person has a right to say whether they can be photographed or not? Surely they do.

Anyone anything to say on that?

[bachscuttler]

I am only a newbie to photography as a serious hobby, but I do think that it is very unprofessional/rude/impolite to take a photo of a person without their prior consent.

Do you not think that a person has a right to say whether they can be photographed or not? Surely they do.

Anyone anything to say on that?

This is a hang-up I have too and until I overcome it, I'l never make a candid people shooter.

You would be amazed at how many members of the general public don't share our view though and I've even had people trying to get in a shot.
Most have the sense to realise we are not doing anything covert or sinister.

Your body language will help a lot in this.
If you look like you are up to no good, people will be suspicious.
The experienced people here know how to guage peoples' reactions.

It is unprofessional/rude/impolite if you continue to shoot when your subject has given you the signals that they don't want to be photographed.

[T-rev]

Yeah I suppose you're kinda right, but I would have to let them know that I had taken a phot of them. Even if they looked like they didnt mind. Its just the way I am.

Think I might try it at the weekend, see how it goes.

[bachscuttler]

In situations like this, make sure you use a long lens.
This guy was a nutter :confused: ;)
I didn't ask him if it was OK after taking the shot :lol:
If I can do it, so can you.

http://www.bachs.shutterschool.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_1186.jpg

[Sean-Mcr]

I've already given my two pence at the start of the discussion. Plenty to be read here

http://2point8.whileseated.org/?p=3

[Plan9]

I am only a newbie to photography as a serious hobby, but I do think that it is very unprofessional/rude/impolite to take a photo of a person without their prior consent.

Do you not think that a person has a right to say whether they can be photographed or not? Surely they do.

Anyone anything to say on that?



I have to say that if they are out in public - fair game. And yes they have they right to ask not to be photographed, it's called freedom of speech. But there is no specific right protecting you from being photographed in public, although there are guidelines governing how such pictures can be used.

And I hardly think its unprofessional or rude to take a picture of someone without their consent. What, is the camera going to steal their soul?? :lol: The idea of a candid photo IS to get it without their consent, so the photo is natural. I only really shoot candids, and if I'm out shooting and see that someone I'm shooting start to pose I will drop the camera to my hip and stop until they go back to what they were doing. Totally ruins the pictures for me. Not to mention that while not rude or unprofessional, it's probably more awkward for the person being photograph if you DO ask first. Besides, what they don't know won't hurt them.

[Echo63]

I am only a newbie to photography as a serious hobby, but I do think that it is very unprofessional/rude/impolite to take a photo of a person without their prior consent.

Do you not think that a person has a right to say whether they can be photographed or not? Surely they do.

Anyone anything to say on that?

it is a little impolite, however if they didnt want their photo taken they shouldnt be out in public

how many times were you photographed today ?
with all the security cameras in our citys now the photographers on here would be taking probably 1% of the images of that person everyday.

the building i used to work in had 14 security cameras i had to walk past from the carpark to the Room i picked my gear up from.

[jcw122]

Hey everyone,

I'm definately very anxious to try street/candid photography after reading through this whole thread.

I live in the suburbs, so there's not nessesarily as central an area for people to hang out as there would be in an urban city.

What would be a good place to go? The mall says they forbid photography, so that's a no...hmm...

[andym172]

What would be a good place to go? The mall says they forbid photography, so that's a no...hmm...

I'd recommend you head to your nearest street market, or car boot sale.

I had my first attempt at street photography a few weeks ago when I was heavily jet lagged having just arrived in Thailand from the UK.

Given that I was shooting at 5am, I strapped my 35mm f1.4 onto my 5D and wandered to the local street market.

The results:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/127/323786238_073a74cac4.jpg http://farm1.static.flickr.com/138/323786319_188cd93eec.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/138/323786511_eb7d6ab8f2.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/138/323785923_45bca95ce0.jpg http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/323786578_b814e91fc3.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/323786149_4e1118c5b6.jpg

Whether they're considered good or bad for this genre, I don't know. I quite enjoyed the experience, but am not sure it's one I would repeat.

The whole "photographing somebody who may not want to be photographed" doesn't lie too well with me. I know I wouldn't particularly like being photographed if I was out and about, but I also see the flip side that it is important todays society is well documented for future generations.

At the end of the day I'm split. I tried it, liked it, but am not at pains to get out there and shoot again :)

My recommendations:

- don't photograph children
- wrap your camera strap round your wrist, and let yourself be seen
- smile, and be non-aggressive
- if somebody reacts positively to you shooting them, show them the frame
- consider using a higher ISO than you would consider normal - even in bright sunlight consider using ISO400 to increase the chances of getting a shot even in dim shadows
- use a wide angle lens - my 35mm was ideal
- and again, smile. A smile can open many doors! :)

[kwokhua]

You need patience when it comes to taking street candid shots. I always find it a challenge to take street shots without offending people. This is especially so in an asian country where people tend to be more reserved. However, the satisfaction of capturing the true emotions of a person is worth the hassle.

I am currently using the Canon A80 and I must say that it is a slow camera to capture candid shots. Can anyone introduce a better camera? My budget is around that of the price of an A80. :-)

Thanks alot and happy new year!

[sebmour]

andym172:
Love your pictures...Especially 3 and 4. I usually shoot faces in street photography but I will be trying this wide angle idea this week-end. It opens a new world of perspective. I tend to love faces to show emotion and see the amazing eyes that some people have. But i like how your pictures show a story, feeling, like being there and living it!

[gkuenning]

What would be a good place to go? The mall says they forbid photography, so that's a no...hmm...

It's not clear to me that the mall has a legal leg to stand on--especially because they're photographing YOU all the time you're there. I suspect a test case will wend its way through the courts in the next decade, what with all the camera phones around. (And if they make a habit of ignoring camera phones, they don't have a good case for prohibiting other types of cameras.)

As a more practical matter, if you're a good candid shooter the mall security guards shouldn't ever become aware of you. If they do, just apologize, say you didn't realize it was prohibited, and head to some other mall.

[andym172]

It's their private property. If you choose to visit/shop there, then sadly you have to stick to their rules (within reason).

[gkuenning]

It's their private property. If you choose to visit/shop there, then sadly you have to stick to their rules (within reason).

That may be true in the UK; I'm pretty unfamiliar with British law. I was speaking of the U.S. rules, where things are more complicated (and still in flux). It's not clear whether a U.S. mall can prohibit taking street shots.

The opposite extreme I've heard about is France, where people have an expectation of privacy even when they are in public. My understanding is that if you take a street photo in France, you may be breaking the law even if you don't publish the photo. I have no idea how the French courts deal with taking a picture of a Paris building that happens to capture an interesting person as well, nor with what they'd say if you then cropped the shot to contain only the person. But I'm sure it'll keep some lawyers busy! ;)

[terrafirmay]

Hey everyone,

I'm definately very anxious to try street/candid photography after reading through this whole thread.

I live in the suburbs, so there's not nessesarily as central an area for people to hang out as there would be in an urban city.

What would be a good place to go? The mall says they forbid photography, so that's a no...hmm...

I'm a lawyer in the United States and a street photographer. A shopping mall is private property: they can forbid photography; they can ask you to leave; if you cause a disturbance, they can call the police; and they can, if they choose, they can press charges against you. You can ask the mall for permission to take photographs but they are unlikely to give you permission because it could create liability for them. My free advice: don't shoot in a mall or, if you do, shoot quickly, be unobtrusive, and don't stay long in any spot.

[gkuenning]

Sometimes procrastination can actually pay off: I was catching up on 6-month-old (literally!) e-mail, and found the following links:

First, here's
a 5-page PDF explaining the law in remarkable detail (http://www.kantor.com.nyud.net:8080/blog/Legal-Rights-of-Photographers.pdf).

Second, here's a handy quick reference (http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm) that includes a link to a downloadable one-page sheet advising you of your rights, and what to do if confronted.

The short version: In the U.S., as long as it's a place open to the public and you're not violating privacy, you can shoot freely. If you're on private property, they can ask you to leave the premises for pretty much any reason--including photography--but they can't prohibit photography in advance, nor can they detain you or confiscate anything, nor can you be prosecuted (unless you refuse to leave when asked).

Terrafirmay's comment about liability is misleading: a shopping mall can claim to be worried about liability, but there is no actual liability caused by having someone snapping pictures on the premises, for the simple reason that (with very narrow exceptions) taking pictures does not constitute a tort.

So feel free to take your candids at the mall, but first download that one-page summary of your rights and stick it in your pocket! Terrafirmay's advice to be discreet is also probably wise, since many security guards are going to be unfamiliar with the law.

[angryhampster]

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I just read the whole thing and got a lot out of it. :)

[david lee]

In my opinion This guy is a master http://www.pbase.com/billharris/image/62236124
He has the uncanny gift of being able to capture not only a perfect subject with his impecable timing but also he manages to combine the background or other objects into the scene to complement the story he is telling.
Take a look at his site.

[Miyagi-san]

In my opinion This guy is a master http://www.pbase.com/billharris/image/62236124
He has the uncanny gift of being able to capture not only a perfect subject with his impecable timing but also he manages to combine the background or other objects into the scene to complement the story he is telling.
Take a look at his site.



WOW! That is a killer collection....that guy has a great eye....

[blackviolet]

this is a great video (http://www.joelmeyerowitz.com/photography/interview_06.html) to give you some really good ideas. personally, i don't like the way he weaves in and out - that's not 'invisible' to me. but if you notice as he's taking the photos, everybody ignores him. that's the way it generally is on the street. i used to be a chicken. but i found that i seldom got bothered, especially with earphones.

[Miyagi-san]

that was a pretty good video, thanks :)

definitely got me motivated to get out again for a shoot. (not that it takes much to motivate me, it's fun fun fun)

i am used to the reach of my sigma 150 macro (now sold)...man i wish i kept that lens.

but the 35mmf2 is on the way....can't wait to learn to use it downtown (use it=not be noticed)

[Vinni]

That was a great video, though I found the guy pretty creepy. I'll listen to his advice, but he's making a spectacle of himself on the street.

[elses_pels]

Thanks a million for all these tips.
I came to this thread quite late but I made good use of it!!
Went to an event a couple of weeks ago and had a lot of fun shooting people. Here is what I tried on that day
1) no hiding! Yep, it works! The least you hide the least people care …some had a half smile when they noticed I was taking a picture of them. Of course it helped it was a public event but nevertheless
2) When I was asked anything, I just said “just taking a nice picture” everyone then posed for an impromptu portrait. it does not happen all the time but most of the time. (pity I screw some of them up by shaking my camera but…)


3) And definitely the best tip ever!! “Use the kit lens”. Short close and personal. My 350D makes not much noise and it is all together small and discreet. (that’s why I am not buying a MK3, it’s not the price or the wife!!!)
I know my pics are not strictly street photography (most anyway) but I am just trying to learn and refine my photos al the time.
Thanks to all for the ideas, I will post some of my own when I reach the point of giving tips! ;-)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elses/sets/72157600201526349/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elses/sets/72157600201526349/


================
350D sigma 28-300 workhorse, kit lens , that's it folks

[uniktangerine]

Here's a question...I really want to start doing candids and street photography. Depending on what lens I chose...how would I go about getting a close-up image while worrying that the subject would hear the sound of the picture being taken? I wish I could easily turn that off like you can with the beep made my the auto focus.

[gkuenning]

Here's a question...I really want to start doing candids and street photography. Depending on what lens I chose...how would I go about getting a close-up image while worrying that the subject would hear the sound of the picture being taken? I wish I could easily turn that off like you can with the beep made my the auto focus.

Some P&S cameras can be made quite silent. I keep the sound of my G3 turned off, and you can hardly hear it even when it's against your face.

With a DSLR, you could set up the self-timer and see how far away you have to be before you can't hear it. Remember that noisy situations (e.g., city streets) are also helpful in masking camera noise. Or you can do like some of the other posters, and not try to hide at all.

[TomMessenger:Photo]

I find no-one hears my 350d (XT) go off in the street. It gets muffled by the general noise aruond you.

[condyk]

Most people seem to use an 'iPod' derivative these days so maybe it's all academic :-)

[Streetshooter]

The important thing to remember is that the image is already made by the time the sound is heard. So, if that is really your concern, just take your time, and make 1 image, then move on......this will teach you many things about seeing/thinking/recording.

I am now using an Epson R-D1s on the streets, and it's not that quiet but I am not having any problems.........just work smartly....don

[ramblingman]

What are the laws on taking candids? I think you're pretty much open to shoot anyone in the public domain. Right?

Has it ever happened that someone's gotten upset after they've noticed that you've taken their picture?

[gkuenning]

What are the laws on taking candids? I think you're pretty much open to shoot anyone in the public domain. Right?

In the U.S., yes, that's right. The basic rule is that people in public have no expectation of privacy, so you can shoot them freely. There are subtleties, though. Two good links are http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf and http://www.kantor.com/useful/Legal-Rights-of-Photographers.pdf. The first is good to carry around in your bag.

Other countries have different rules. The most restrictive I know of is France, where (in my understanding) it's just plain illegal to take pictures of strangers in public. I don't know how their law deals with things like crowds at sports events.

Has it ever happened that someone's gotten upset after they've noticed that you've taken their picture?

Hoo, yeah. Last winter, in San Jose, I was taking several shots of a rather oddly dressed woman. She spotted me and objected loudly, with a threat to break my camera. I just shrugged and turned away; I figured that it was best to let her have the last word and not confront her, and that the people around me would warn me if she actually came at me. I didn't delete the shots, but I'm not going to post them anywhere. I can still study them to learn from my mistakes.

A few days ago I was shooting on my daughter's school playground, at an after-school event. I noticed a woman watching me, but she didn't say anything so I let her be. Later the principal (whom I know) came up and said, "You scared one of my parents!" She had calmed the woman down and didn't seem to think it was a terribly big deal. Apparently the woman had said, "I don't want my kid's pictures posted on the Internet." Unfortunately she didn't bother to tell me which kid was hers, so I can't do much to make her happy if any of the shots come out. (Too bad: I was fantasizing about being able to tell her that I hadn't photographed her child because he was too ugly. :D)

Of course, if her kid's picture appeard on the front page of the local weekly, she would probably be ecstatic. There's no logic in this, just emotion. I figure that you just need to defuse the anger, be a bit considerate about how you use the pictures, and not worry too much.

[nemezote]

Hello, just joined the forums, and this topic, I just wanted to add something about photographing people head on.

Most of the time when I want to take someones headshot I just stand next to a doorway or in a corner and just look at the direction people are coming, sometimes when my camera "up and ready" and sometimes not. The point is that most people tend to think of this as a "he was already there so i cant get mad" kind of situations, and that works most of the time.

And till this day I never had anyone complain about what I do. Regarding the "what do I say when im asked about why I take photos" story, I just say im a photography student, even though im not. I do think that the best thing to say is the truth.

Anyway, its my second post and im still getting the hang of how things work around here.

Cya!

[ramblingman]

In the U.S., yes, that's right. The basic rule is that people in public have no expectation of privacy, so you can shoot them freely. There are subtleties, though. Two good links are http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf and http://www.kantor.com/useful/Legal-Rights-of-Photographers.pdf. The first is good to carry around in your bag.

Other countries have different rules. The most restrictive I know of is France, where (in my understanding) it's just plain illegal to take pictures of strangers in public. I don't know how their law deals with things like crowds at sports events.

Hoo, yeah. Last winter, in San Jose, I was taking several shots of a rather oddly dressed woman. She spotted me and objected loudly, with a threat to break my camera. I just shrugged and turned away; I figured that it was best to let her have the last word and not confront her, and that the people around me would warn me if she actually came at me. I didn't delete the shots, but I'm not going to post them anywhere. I can still study them to learn from my mistakes.

A few days ago I was shooting on my daughter's school playground, at an after-school event. I noticed a woman watching me, but she didn't say anything so I let her be. Later the principal (whom I know) came up and said, "You scared one of my parents!" She had calmed the woman down and didn't seem to think it was a terribly big deal. Apparently the woman had said, "I don't want my kid's pictures posted on the Internet." Unfortunately she didn't bother to tell me which kid was hers, so I can't do much to make her happy if any of the shots come out. (Too bad: I was fantasizing about being able to tell her that I hadn't photographed her child because he was too ugly. :D)

Of course, if her kid's picture appeard on the front page of the local weekly, she would probably be ecstatic. There's no logic in this, just emotion. I figure that you just need to defuse the anger, be a bit considerate about how you use the pictures, and not worry too much.

Geoff,

Thanks for the great response. It was very infomative as were the links you sent me. Feel free to send me any more information you have on this subject.

Thanks for sharing about some of your experiences. I think sharing examples or stories allow people to learn a lot. I do think that you have to watch when you shoot around children these days because people have been hypersensitive due to all these pedophile shows and news programs. It's a shame that these guys ruin the innocence of others. Recently, an off-duty police officer had problems with some parent after he was caught taking pictures of his daughter. See article:
Off-Duty Cop Accused Of Taking Photos Of Kids

(CBS) LOS ANGELES An internal investigation will be conducted into allegations that an off-duty Los Angeles police officer was taking photos of young children at a strawberry festival in Garden Grove, an LAPD spokesman said Tuesday.

The officer, whose name was not released, was chased and tackled by a father, who seized the officer's camera and a gun about noon Saturday. Mark Dornan said that he noticed the man taking pictures of his daughter, 5, and son, 3, at the Strawberry Festival in Garden Grove.

"He came up and tried to sneak a picture of my daughter climbing out of this wagon in a short dress," Dornan told the news station.

Dornan chased the man and said the off-duty officer was trying to delete photos from his camera as he fled. Dornan caught the man and tackled him, finding a semiautomatic .45-caliber Colt pistol tucked in the man's shorts.

Garden Grove police took the camera as possible evidence, but let him keep the gun. "Right now, this whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion," Garden Grove police Sgt. Jim Fischer said. Police said the images themselves did not constitute a crime.

Garden Grove police detectives are investigating the run-in and will decide whether to seek charges.

An internal LAPD investigation will be conducted, Sgt. Lee Sands of the Los Angeles Police Department's Media Relations Section said.




http://wcbstv.com/kcbs/topstories/local_story_149123114.html

[gkuenning]

Off-Duty Cop Accused Of Taking Photos Of Kids

At first I was appalled. But on second reading, I was struck by two things. First, the father claimed:

"He came up and tried to sneak a picture of my daughter climbing out of this wagon in a short dress,"

If the guy really was trying to get underwear shots, he was breaking the law (and decency) and I have no sympathy.

The second thing I noticed in the article was this:

"Right now, this whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion," Garden Grove police Sgt. Jim Fischer said. Police said the images themselves did not constitute a crime.

In other words, the cops knew the law. If there was nothing wrong with the images, look for this case to be quickly dismissed, the LAPD investigation to be quietly closed, and the father who initiated the chase to be hit with a huge lawsuit for assault and a whole bunch of other things.

Personally, I'd like to see that happen, with a lot of attendant publicity. People need to learn that it's not OK to go around tackling people and making false accusations just because the nightly news loves to sensationalize.

Nevertheless, this reinforces what's been implied in some other threads: taking candids can be dangerous in unusual circumstances. I think that the most important defense is to not act guilty. In the story you quoted, the photographer supposedly ran, while deleting pictures. If he was truly blameless, he should have stood his ground and tried to calm the father down. (He's a cop, he's trained in that!) My experience is that if you're up front, people may berate you but they won't escalate because they don't fear that you'll "get away". Then you can defuse the situation without bad consequences.

[Vitruvius]

yeah in the situation above you figure worse comes to worse if you stand your ground and be completely honest if the guy is really belligerent maybe you get hit in the face. If your running good chance you get tackled and your gear destroyed in the process or after the fact. Someone mentioned this already, if you want to risk kids for the shot, carry around your card and possibly an album might even get some business instead. Risky though, even if its your own kids but more so if your there solo.

[ramblingman]

Personally, I'd like to see that happen, with a lot of attendant publicity. People need to learn that it's not OK to go around tackling people and making false accusations just because the nightly news loves to sensationalize.

Nevertheless, this reinforces what's been implied in some other threads: taking candids can be dangerous in unusual circumstances. I think that the most important defense is to not act guilty. In the story you quoted, the photographer supposedly ran, while deleting pictures. If he was truly blameless, he should have stood his ground and tried to calm the father down. (He's a cop, he's trained in that!) My experience is that if you're up front, people may berate you but they won't escalate because they don't fear that you'll "get away". Then you can defuse the situation without bad consequences.

This is because the news sensationalizes. I sure hope that a cop was not taking upskirt shots of children, then he deserves what he gets. If he is cleared, then I would agree that the Dad should be sued.

Someone mentioned this already, if you want to risk kids for the shot, carry around your card and possibly an album might even get some business instead. Risky though, even if its your own kids but more so if your there solo.

That's a good comment and a good way to find business. I don't shoot children except my own, but for those that do, well then this might work.

[Tee Why]

Wow, lots of yapping but no one's put up the snappings. I saw a few links but no images.
I won't blab on, but will put up some shots.
Lets start with Hollywood.
1. Church of Christ member
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/86104476-M-1.jpg

2. Trumpet on Hollywood
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/72264049-M.jpg

3. Backflipping break dancer
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/77807017-M.jpg

4. WTF???
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/86104475-M.jpg

5. Legs
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/115851396-M.jpg

6. What? Never seen a gorilla in a suit standing on the street?
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/77807022-M.jpg

[condyk]

Great shots ...

Remember folks that this isn't a chatting, discussion or show your shots thread. Therre are other places for all that. It is meant as a tips thread and to enable people to run through tips easier it is generally better to keep the other stuff out.

[Tee Why]

Now onto Santa Monica,
It's not full of only Movie star wanna be types with plastic surgery you know.
1. Farmer's market
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/82021856-M.jpg

2. This man was asleep on a bench with a fresh cut to his head during a Polish festival.
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/82021844-M.jpg

3. T. Rex
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/90089490-M.jpg

4. Sitting on the bench
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/82027494-M.jpg

5. Nice ad for Addidas
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/111087034-M.jpg

6. They often have an "Arlington West" by the pier where a cross represents 10 soldiers killed in Iraq. These A-holes had the gall to just get past the crosses and sunbath. I felt like kicking their teeth in but just took a shot.
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/82021843-M.jpg

7. A trike.
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/82021850-M-1.jpg

8. All bundled up for the heat wave.
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/82021846-M.jpg

[Tee Why]

Great shots ...

Remember folks that this isn't a chatting, discussion or show your shots thread. Therre are other places for all that. It is meant as a tips thread and to enable people to run through tips easier it is generally better to keep the other stuff out.

Sorry to take this thread off topic. I think it would be nice if everyone include a shot that incorporated the tips so we can see it as well.

As for tips.
Probably the most important for me is this old rule of thumb.
99% perspiration, 1% inspiration.
Go back and shoot, shoot, shoot. If you expect a good gallery, I doubt it'll happen with a couple of attempts.

Develop a style that's you.

I prefer wide and close vs sniping tight headshots with a telephoto, so that way it shows the environment of the shot and put s the shot in context.

Shoot Cust fn 4-1 and in AI servo. I prefer shooting from the hip, so about half of these are from the hip without composing.

I prefer to either blend in and disappear to let the people be natural or keep moving so people don't ham it up for the camera, that way I don't get a bunch of strangers with a cheezy smile on their faces.

I personally don't spend more than a few seconds on a subject if I'm in a moving mode. Nothing like standing at one place spraying and praying to ruin the mood and have people get uptight about being shot.

[canonloader]

I just read this whole thread, and nobody mentioned burst mode. I have been mostly shooting birds lately, but in the film days I did a lot of street shooting in Washington DC and NYC, and used burst mode quite a bit, with a motor drive in those days. Now that shooting multiple frames is free, I do it all the time, and it's amazing what you can get beyond that first planned shot.

And the video a couple of pages back is amazing. The guy has a very valid point, the bob and weave thing is perfect. You become invisible, people can see you doing it before they get in range, and by the time they are, they are ignoring you, your just another harmless nut job. :lol:

[mkuriger]

I have photographed your #4 lots of times, really cool guy. However, don't tangle with ELMO!!! He is a meaniehead :-)

(taken with my nikon P&S)

http://www.isuzu-mods.com/pics/elmo_assface.jpg



4. WTF???
http://tomyi.smugmug.com/photos/86104475-M.jpg

[whuband]

A great way to enhance your confidence and get excellent photos is to find a group enjoying a street performer or some other street scene. Put the performer between you and the crowd and shoot. As far as they know, you are photographing the performer.

[jschro]

I will say candid/street photography is something I have struggled with....I just felt nervous about taking pictures of strangers. I recently went on a trip out east to visit a friend in conneticut. We took a day trip to Boston, where I did some street shots. I found it pretty easy to shoot street perfomers/vendors. I made sure to tip the performers.

Then went to NYC, and it just got easier for me to do. The number of shots I took that day were probably 4X what I took in Boston. I did more of the same, took some of random people on busy corners, some on the stanton island ferry....I shot some from the hip which was kind of fun....but my buddy (not into photography) gave me a weird look and asked if I just took that woman's picture. I'm like "yeah, I was looking for some different angles and didn't want to be obvious about it" He shrugged. Whatever. I guess my advice is to get out there and just do it, it will become easier. Start off with performers/interesting vendors, then advance to random people. I will say, it was a lot more fun than I had anticipated. I may not have gotten any "classics", but I got some nice shots IMHO anyway.

If interested here's a link to my galleries, check out the Vacation gallery.
http://jasonschroederphotography.smugmug.com/

[Bootlegger0173]

I had previously stated that most of my shots were candids but was corrected, so apparently, mine are classified more as "location" shots... whatever. Anyway, I like to get shots of people doing something they like doing. I figure that it makes them feel more comfy, as well as revealing something about their personalities at the same time.

[Higha Level]

My attempt at Candid Shots. From my blog.

http://potenchial.com/blog/?p=22

[KJCSPhoto]

I have decided to go into NYC tomorrow for the day as a birthday present, of course I am going to bring my camera, but I do not want to bring my whole camera bag –just my small holster bag. I have 3 lenses: an 18-55mm, 28-80mm, and a 75-300mm, and I am not sure which one to bring. I am leaning toward my 18-55mm lens. I have not done too much street photography, I am mainly a mainly landscape & nature photographer, but I want to do more street photography. Out of my three lenses what would you recommend? Thanks, Kevin

[sjones]

I have not done too much street photography, I am mainly a mainly landscape & nature photographer, but I want to do more street photography. Out of my three lenses what would you recommend? Thanks, Kevin

For street photography, the 18-55 should work well. Also, don't hesitate to keep your ISO as high as 400 or so, since you will quickly find yourself in shaded areas….

[ooo]

Well I just finished reading this 10 page thread and I have a few questions. In the first few pages, someone mentioned taking the exposure as you are walking around, but doesn't the light change as you turn into an alley way or cross the street, etc. Wouldn't it be difficult to get the perfect exposure? I notice many people set their cameras in Av, so do you just find your subject and quickly snap a picture and walk away? Do you generally walk alone or with people? Sorry if the questions are stupid, I'm new to photography.

[canonloader]

Av Mode is great when the light is changing all the time. Set the aperture for general light, and the ISO, and let the camera decide on the shutter speed.

[gkuenning]

Well I just finished reading this 10 page thread and I have a few questions. In the first few pages, someone mentioned taking the exposure as you are walking around, but doesn't the light change as you turn into an alley way or cross the street, etc. Wouldn't it be difficult to get the perfect exposure? I notice many people set their cameras in Av, so do you just find your subject and quickly snap a picture and walk away? Do you generally walk alone or with people? Sorry if the questions are stupid, I'm new to photography.

The only stupid question is the one that's not asked. :)

I generally try to be very discreet. I'm kind of shy, so I don't take the "be open about it" approach. Sometimes being sneaky is a disadvantage, though. In particular, closeup shots from the hip produce weird angles that often don't work. I also got hassled once by a woman in Germany who noticed that I was taking pictures of people.

I almost always go out alone. If you're with somebody, it interferes with your ability to "work" the crowd. In general, I'm not worried about somebody giving me a hard time; if they did, I would just back down and let them go away happy.

I usually preset the focus, choose an aperture that will give me a reasonable DOF range (perhaps 4 to 8 feet), and then try to find an ISO that will let the camera work in either shade or sun. One thing about this kind of shooting is that you're going to wind up with LOTS of loser shots: out of focus, out of frame, wrong exposure, missed the moment, ugly expression, etc. I probably keep fewer than one in four, and I'm very lenient about what I keep.

[vwjoe76]

I've read most of this thread. Great advice. There was one comment about taking pictures of children and the "paranoia" involved these days. I agree...not every MAN w/ a camera is a perv. Unfortunately, the pervs are probably more inconspicuous. But what I wanted to bring up is related to "paranoia" and the post 9/11 era. Recently I was shooting in a train station downtown in Fresno, CA. I probably snapped off 20 shots of people and architecture when a ticket person came up to me and questioned what I was doing. He was very polite and I even showed him what I shot (again, the whole time I was thinking "if I were a terrorist I would probably not be as obvious as I was being). That said, I understand the security thing, but it seems overboard at times. Maybe not, I don't know. I want to travel the local bus routes here in town for candids of people and the interesting light/reflections that are present in a bus. My train station "incident" has made me nervous about public transportation though. Anyone else run into similar situations/problems? --joe

[canonloader]

My train station "incident" has made me nervous about public transportation though.
This comment stems from the fear of our own governments actions, not terrorists. Being worried about what our own people and government are going to think about our actions is what the terrorists want, and got. Unless there is a law against using a camera on a bus or train, don't worry about it.

The ticket person was probably acting out his own imagined fears of what a terrorist would be doing, not some organizational command to question all riders with cameras. Take a picture of him, tell him you work for internal affairs and bug off before he blows your cover. :lol:

[vwjoe76]

Unless there is a law against using a camera on a bus or train, don't worry about it.
Yea, that's the thing...I don't know what is allowed anymore. I read in another post where someone posted a NYC subway shot (a nice shot too) and he said he was told not to photograph there, but he took his couple of shots then scurried off. I hate it being that way. --joe