NEW 5D RUMOUR !!

[narlus]

keep searching...i found a low click/mint condition one for 1600.

[lowcrust]

How trustworthy are those click counts?

[Blue S2]

BUy one, enjoy it, and if the shutter goes after a few years, spend a couple hundred and have it replaced. Good for another 100,000 shots.

Another post said for the age, $2000 is not right, and finding the "right price" used is not easy.

A leica M3 is still hard to find for less than $1,500 used and its well over 20 years old! Its about half what it went for new. The 5D is reaching the half way mark from its debut price. How much further will it really go?

I bought a factory refurbished 350D for $300 to convert to infrared. I would have rather had a 30D or 5D converted but the price for novelty just wasn't justifiable in my mind. I could have waited forever, they just weren't going to drop to the price I felt like spending. Quality holds value. Browse for an old Large Format film camera. They are still more than most SLRs.

Buy what you need and enjoy it. Live for today, you never know what happens tomorrow.

[MrChad]

BHphoto has the 5D for $2099, they also have a rebate again for $200 with a printer that ends in April.

Odd, but then again the 3.3MP D30 did debut in April 2000....

...flame the rumors!!!

[Meaty0]

I would trade a 40D in a heart beat for a 5D.

Whoa there boy! I have both and I can tell you from experience, the 40D is one fine camera. I use both regularly depending which lens I'm going to be using. Both produce fantastic images. I won't be dumping the 40D any time soon....but I will dump the 5D for a 5DMkII in a heartbeat...if it ever comes out that is!

I have found that 40D and 5D are a wonderful match.

[dragulaz]

I would love to get a 5D but my thoughts are:
a. I can't find the right price point: condition/price to suit me
b. If I buy new, then the gamble is when the new one comes out, just how much will it depress the current one's used price. I don't want to lose a huge amount. If the new one comes out for around the price of a new one now, that will tank the old one's price. If the new one comes out for let's say around $3000.00 then the used price of the old one won't be hurt too bad. So, it's basically a gamble to buy new now.

Unless of course one buys now and says the heck with the new one. The current one is too good to worry about the new one. But, I tend to always want the latest and that's just the way I am I guess. I love new!!!

Bottom line: I think the 5D is one of the finest cameras ever made and I would love to have one!

The price won't tank, and even if it does...who cares! The camera isn't going to suddenly stop functioning because it's market value goes down. Buy it, shoot it, you'll LOVE it!!

[MrChad]

Heck for all anyone knows it could be another year to 18mo's before a new 5D appears. I watched 3 major show seasons appear without a new model. :p

Heck, I purchased my 30D during a rebate period and rumor was it was going to be replaced. I had to wait an additional year before that happened.

Ignore rumors buy gear you need, now.

$2100 for a new 5D is a smoking deal. That is cheaper then D30 was new. And the 5D is amazing. FF for that price is a flipping steal. The next cheapest FF on the market is more then double the price. A 5D, 24-105mm kit and 580EX II are still cheaper then the next pricest FF model from anyone.

[I Simonius]

Heck for all anyone knows it could be another year to 18mo's before a new 5D appears. I watched 3 major show seasons appear without a new model. :p

Heck, I purchased my 30D during a rebate period and rumor was it was going to be replaced. I had to wait an additional year before that happened.

Ignore rumors buy gear you need, now.

$2100 for a new 5D is a smoking deal. That is cheaper then D30 was new. And the 5D is amazing. FF for that price is a flipping steal. The next cheapest FF on the market is more then double the price. A 5D, 24-105mm kit and 580EX II are still cheaper then the next pricest FF model from anyone.

I think Canon have something up their sleeve with the next 5D that they were hoping to keep til later and can now that even Noinks offerings wee'nt enough to knock the confidence in the current 5D, and so now they're going to wait until the 5D has fully run its course and the 1Dsmk3 sales have peaked

My guess is that , as the 5D is all about IQ over and above MP that they will have improved sensor technology rather than just MPs, 14bit and Digic 3 to impress with the next version. But I predict next spring (sadly:cry:) - a long wait

[MrChad]

I think Canon have something up their sleeve with the next 5D that they were hoping to keep til later and can now that even Noinks offerings wee'nt enough to knock the confidence in the current 5D, and so now they're going to wait until the 5D has fully run its course and the 1Dsmk3 sales have peaked

My guess is that , as the 5D is all about IQ over and above MP that they will have improved sensor technology rather than just MPs, 14bit and Digic 3 to impress with the next version. But I predict next spring (sadly:cry:) - a long wait

Do you own or use the current 5D by chance?

I'm just curious - not to point fingers at you are anyone in particular - but I get the feeling the majority of folks with complaints about the current 5D, have never used one.

The current 5D though some may say old by 2.5years now. Is still the 2nd highest resolution model currently on the Canon shelf. It does only 3fps, oh how we forget that was the digital norm until the 20D for most owners. Aside from the fps, I can't think of a single flaw for why users needing FF shouldn't own one.

I shot sports with a Digital Rebel for over 2 years so you can't say that 3fps is impossible for shooting action either per say.

For about 2k, it's one heck of a camera and FF to boot.

If someone is shooting Canon gear and wanting FF but not upgrading because of the so-called rumors or gripes on the forum, that would be a darn shame IMO.

[Meaty0]

Okay...I bought a 5D about two weeks ago, which means the upgrade MUST be coming out within a week. :-D

[John_TX]

Okay...I bought a 5D about two weeks ago, which means the upgrade MUST be coming out within a week. :-D

Way to take one for the team!

[Meaty0]

Way to take one for the team!

I'm such a selfless cat!;)

[I Simonius]

Do you own or use the current 5D by chance?

Not by chance at all - entirely by design:p

Okay...I bought a 5D about two weeks ago, which means the upgrade MUST be coming out within a week. :-D

guaranteed! - I'll let Chuck know it's ok to release it now;)
:lol:

[Meaty0]

Conversation with Chuck:

CHUCK: Hey Paul, just thought I'd ring to see if you'd caved and bought that 5D yet?

ME: <suspicious tone> Yeeeeeah....why do you want to know?

CHUCK: Oh...no reason...bye... CLICK. (Hearing oriental sniggering in background before phone is hung up.)

ME: Oh cwap!

[Jannie]

They won't come out with a 5DII, they'll come out with a 6D or 7D and it will be a different offering like the MkIII which stepped back from FF to 1.3 and 10MP from the 5D's 12+ and, and, and...

So what if the next Canon camera is a larger than FF format, not medium but something even more impressive-maybe even uses some of the same "L" lenses or is a superwide with one impressive lens. Who knows but I can't wait!!! THEY WANT OUR MONEY AND WE SO DESPERATELY WANT TO GIVE IT TO THEM!

They are not going to leave us without satisfying our "wanting to want".
Jannie

[John_TX]

That would be interesting if Canon came out with a FF+ format. That might be a creative way to capitalize on people forced to move towards medium format, but who might not actually need a full medium format setup.

I don't know much about the medium format specifics, but maybe Canon could come out with a cropped medium format setup around 30x42mm.
I think this would be ideal! Even a 28x40mm would be pretty sweet.

Initially, if they released an ultra wide zoom and maybe a standard zoom that would work with this new body, I'd bet they'd sell this combo by the boatload if it gave those $25,000+ Hasselblad setups a run for their money.

Reference: A 35mm FF sensor is ~24x36mm and the largest medium format sensor is currently 36.7x49mm.

[Blue S2]

Yeah but then only the tilt-shift lenses would work...but not traditionally or practically. The imaging circle of a 35mm lens is not big enough for a much larger sensor. Same reason EF-s are not designed for a FF.

[Meaty0]

Dead right. Some of the current "L" series lenses don't even do well on a FF sensor, let alone a larger one.

[I Simonius]

Conversation with Chuck:

CHUCK: Hey Paul, just thought I'd ring to see if you'd caved and bought that 5D yet?

ME: <suspicious tone> Yeeeeeah....why do you want to know?

CHUCK: Oh...no reason...bye... CLICK. (Hearing oriental sniggering in background before phone is hung up.)

ME: Oh cwap!

rofl:lol:

[mattograph]

Dead right. Some of the current "L" series lenses don't even do well on a FF sensor, let alone a larger one.


Huh?

[jonnythan]

I think he's saying that some of Canon's current highest-end lenses have noticeable vignetting on a full frame sensor already, and that using a larger sensor in a camera would render a large portion of Canon's lenses virtually unusable.

[I Simonius]

That would be interesting if Canon came out with a FF+ format.

Initially, if they released an ultra wide zoom and maybe a standard zoom that would work with this new body,

Yeah but then only the tilt-shift lenses would work...but not traditionally or practically. The imaging circle of a 35mm lens is not big enough for a much larger sensor. Same reason EF-s are not designed for a FF.

See red above;)

[John_TX]

Yep, if they went bigger than FF, they'd definitely have to release new lenses for it. These new lenses would be more expensive as they would require larger objective diameters to get more light to the sensor.
The exact opposite of the EF to EF-S progression which allowed them to lighten lenses by reducing the amount of light needing to cover the sensor.

[Blue S2]

If they are going to a FF+ with all new lenses, then they might as well just be in the medium format market. What is the point of going in between, unless they have some new fantastic ideas. If they go MF, ide rather it be compatible with a variety of MF gear already out than just be an entirely new closed system that needs reinvestment in new lenses.

Unless...they can give better results than the Phase One digital backs, while being a LOT CHEAPER. Ya never know...

[Meaty0]

I think he's saying that some of Canon's current highest-end lenses have noticeable vignetting on a full frame sensor already, and that using a larger sensor in a camera would render a large portion of Canon's lenses virtually unusable.

Yeah; what he said.

[I Simonius]

Yeah; what he said.

of course using a larger sensor would render most lenses unusable - they were designed for 35mm:rolleyes:

The vignetting we currently see from FF sensors only applies to fast lenses at their widest apertures;)

[I Simonius]

If they are going to a FF+ with all new lenses, then they might as well just be in the medium format market.

yup:rolleyes:


If Canon want to go MF all well and good, but Im sticking to 35mm , there's no way Im lugging an MF body round when I already find the 1D series cameras too heavy;)

[Blue S2]

Aside from 16bit imaging...I think Canon is either going to have to "redesign" the medium format concept entirely, or really revolutionize the 35mm full frame chip drastically.

You can only realistically put so many pixels on a chip. The 5D has the largest pixels of any digital with the exception of 2 phase one MF backs costing $25,000+ each. Canon found a way to make them more efficient and squeeze in more of in a similar space...but that can only go so far. Whats after this next generation? Or maybe the generation after it?

I think we will begin reaching the same issue as film sizes. A large format piece of film prints an 8x10 negative. Compare that to 36mm...and yeah one really does have a lot more detail! I think we are about to hit this issue in the next 5 years in digital. If people want clean, noiseless images with smooth gradation, mp, etc... its time to get bigger. Either that, or something unheard of to revolutionize digital imaging.

This is the reason the 5D hasn't been going anywhere and an upgrade is so slow to reach market. A "features upgrade" would be fun...but not truly necessary in the grand scheme of things. In terms of quality, a 5D with nothing different except digic 3 and 14 bit would be the best looking 35mm available with no question. Consumer "ideas" of quality drive this market though, so without all the bells and whistles for sales people to compare, it won't happen. Its marketing, not science that sells cameras.

For all those debating whether to get a 5D or not...it has almost twice the size pixels as other Canons. Even the new 1ds MKIII shrunk in pixel size to the size of a 40D...but got better image processing to compensate. I honestly believe Canon is at least shooting to score "image quality on the level of" a Phase One digital back with this next camera release. It wont be for the sport shooters, or the commandos,...it will be for the studio and landscape, and other fields demanding gradation rendition, and utmost quality of image recorded.

[I Simonius]

For all those debating whether to get a 5D or not...it has almost twice the size pixels as other Canons. Even the new 1ds MKIII shrunk in pixel size to the size of a 40D...but got better image processing to compensate. I honestly believe Canon is at least shooting to score "image quality on the level of" a Phase One digital back with this next camera release. It wont be for the sport shooters, or the commandos,...it will be for the studio and landscape, and other fields demanding gradation rendition, and utmost quality of image recorded.

sounds good to me;)

As I understand it ( which I accept may be way off the mark) they do have room for manoeuvre with the 5D pixels in that even if the keep them the same size they can cut down on the space between them

As far as te 1Ds goes , apparently they have already got 50MP prototypes

[Meaty0]

Basically, the current 5D is a 20D with a FF sensor and a bigger LCD screen.

I'd be happy if the "5D MkII" was a 40D with a FF sensor.

[I Simonius]

Basically, the current 5D is a 20D with a FF sensor and a bigger LCD screen.

I'd be happy if the "5D MkII" was a 40D with a FF sensor.

Me too, except I do want higher resolution (i.e. more MP - 18 please , no more);))

[Blue S2]

Yeah, they are closing the distance between pixels now. Based on how the 1Ds3 ended up, the 5D doing the same thing should end up around 17 or 18mp. Roughly a 1/3 gain from its current 12.8.

Time will reveal all soon enough.

[I Simonius]

Yeah, they are closing the distance between pixels now. Based on how the 1Ds3 ended up, the 5D doing the same thing should end up around 17 or 18mp. Roughly a 1/3 gain from its current 12.8.

Time will reveal all soon enough.

but will it still have fat juicy pixels like before or ones that have been on a diet -or... will there be some new techo-wizardry that is yet to be unveiled?

Don't miss next weeks exciting episode.....;)

[Meaty0]

5D replacement very close now. I feel it in me water!

[lowcrust]

If you by close mean after the summer, then me too!

[I Simonius]

5D replacement very close now. I feel it in me water!

In which case I hope it's waterproofed!;)
:lol:

[Chandler.]

5D replacement very close now. I feel it in me water!

I hope your water breaks soon then.

[nureality]

Well maybe not entirely impossible. You can group 2 or 3 pixels together to record different areas of the specter. This has been done already, but i cant remember by who.

I actually do think that the coming upgrade to the 1Ds will have larger DR - time will tell.

Sounds like you're thinking of the Sigma SD14's Foveon X3 14MP sensor which captures the whole sensor's size of pixels for EACH color... so each pixel has its Green Value, its Red Value, and its Blue Value for that pixel site. Whereas standard sensors do not do this. But IQ tests have proven that this doesn't generate better IQ. Perhaps if someone took a different approach at capturing more DR someone would achieve better results.

[red hot sheep]

Just ordered a 5d! Great value with the 24-105 kit and rebates.

[Blue S2]

The 24-105 is such a great lens on its own, paired with the 5D makes it a really hard combo to not own!

[I Simonius]

Just ordered a 5d! Great value with the 24-105 kit and rebates.

The 24-105 is such a great lens on its own, paired with the 5D makes it a really hard combo to not own!

This is definitely the time to be buying a 5D!:D

[Chandler.]

It's everywhere on the net, but it deserves to be in this epic thread:

New 5D will have:

* 15.3 MP full frame CMOS sensor (vastly improved light-gathering capacity per pixel: improved micro lenses; miniaturized micro circuitry; enhanced signal/noise ratio)
* Weather sealing same as 1Ds Mark III
* Dual Digic III with all-new "CXR" NR system reported to best 3rd party NR software. Available as a C.F with 4 levels of customizable parameters.
* 14 bit A/D conversion
* ISO 12800 (C.F. up to 25600)
* Reported 1 2/3 stop sensitivity improvement
* All-new 29-point TTL CMOS sensor with 12 cross-type for F/2.8 or faster lens (35% faster than 40D)
* Micro lens fine adjustment for up to 14 lenses
* 300,000 exposure shutter durability
* 6.0 / 3.0 fps
* 3.0" LCD 922,000 pixels
* EOS Integrated Cleaning System
* Live View (improved from 450D; latest generation)
* 6/3 fps continuous shooting for up to 68 frames
* MSRP $3499, available June 2

[Belmondo]

Yup, I've seen that quite a lot.

If true (and it seems plausible), I guess I'll buy one.

[JohnnyG]

I do not understand the proposed new 5D feature of:

Reported 1 2/3 stop sensitivity improvement


Can someone please explain???

[fi20100]

I do not understand the proposed new 5D feature of:

Reported 1 2/3 stop sensitivity improvement


Can someone please explain???

They are probably talking about how good high ISO looks. Meaning ISO 6400 looks a little worse than ISO 1600 on the current 5D :)

[Trout Bum]

I do not understand the proposed new 5D feature of:

Reported 1 2/3 stop sensitivity improvement


Can someone please explain???


Increase in dynamic range? :confused:

[Chandler.]

Increase in dynamic range? :confused:

Nope. This was in reference to the Noise at high ISO ranges.

The rumor also states that Canon is "underpromising" here. There is actually a two stop improvement, but Canon wants people to find this out through testing, and be impressed, so Canon can regain their trust.

[Chandler.]

Yup, I've seen that quite a lot.

If true (and it seems plausible), I guess I'll buy one.

If this is true, I'll buy one eventually. It would be a camera I could keep for a long, long time.

[Blue S2]

I'de be sold on those specs.

[Radtech1]

It's everywhere on the net, but it deserves to be in this epic thread:

New 5D will have:
* 15.3 MP full frame CMOS sensor (vastly improved light-gathering capacity per pixel: improved micro lenses; miniaturized micro circuitry; enhanced signal/noise ratio)
* Weather sealing same as 1Ds Mark III
* (Lots of other stuff)
* MSRP $3499, available June 2



But what about a name?? What is it's name? 5.5D? 3D? 5Ds? 5DMkII? 7D? What? WHAT?

That's the only spec that really matters!

[lowcrust]

OBVIOUSLY it will be called Canon EOS Hug 5.7 mkIII

[Chandler.]

But what about a name?? What is it's name?
5.5D?
No way.

3D?
Plausible, but too close to "D3"

5Ds?
The "s" denotes a huge difference. Consider the 1D vs. 1Ds. Totally different cameras for different purposes. This camera will not be for a different purpose than the 5D.

5DMkII?
Even though the rumor says no, I think this will be it. People trust and love the 5D name, so why move away from it?

7D?
This could be it. In the consumer and prosumer lines, a higher number denotes an upgrade. However, in the pro line, 1 is obviously the highest. The 5D is split between pro and consumer in who it is targeted at, IMO. Of course, many many pros do use it. This new body, with its rumored weather sealing, could be more a lot more "pro" than "consumer," which means a higher number would suggest a downgrade. But 3D sounds weird, besides being confusing with the D3. But 4D? That sounds just as weird.

I don't think Canon has ever used 4 in a camera's name. Anyone know for sure?

[Meaty0]

I don't think Canon has ever used 4 in a camera's name. Anyone know for sure?

Yup! 40D!:D

[Blue S2]

"forty" is different than "four" I believe. I had hear the word "four" either means something else, or has some kind of superstitious background in China or Japan.

[I Simonius]

It's everywhere on the net, but it deserves to be in this epic thread:

New 5D will have:

thank for this but... but... where's the linkypoos?;):p

Nope. This was in reference to the Noise at high ISO ranges.

The rumor also states that Canon is "underpromising" here. There is actually a two stop improvement, but Canon wants people to find this out through testing, and be impressed, so Canon can regain their trust.

that'll do me:D

[Meaty0]

"forty" is different than "four" I believe. I had hear the word "four" either means something else, or has some kind of superstitious background in China or Japan.

Okay then ....what about the FOUR hundred D. (400D...now 450D I believe).:D

[I Simonius]

thank for this but... but... where's the linkypoos?;):p
ah here they be:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d2_3d_7d.html
and
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=27125455

[Meaty0]

ah here they be:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d2_3d_7d.html
and
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=27125455

Yeah...but those are just bull**** rumours too, replete with sayings like, "From a source I'm not willing to disclose" (read: from his imagination).

This thread has a much better quality of rumour than either of those threads.:D

[surfjungle]

ah here they be:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d2_3d_7d.html
and
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=27125455


Thats rather circular Simonius - answering your own questions :P

[I Simonius]

Yeah...but those are just bull**** rumours too, replete with sayings like, "From a source I'm not willing to disclose" (read: from his imagination).

This thread has a much better quality of rumour than either of those threads.:D
true oh so true...;):p

Thats rather circular Simonius - answering your own questions :P

'Circular Simonius', not easy to say three times in a row if you've had a drink;)

[Chandler.]

Yup! 40D!:D

Okay then ....what about the FOUR hundred D. (400D...now 450D I believe).:D

Oh yeah, forgot about those. :oops:

[Chandler.]

The only thing that seems fishy to me are the dual processors. Is that necessary?

[Blue S2]

They probably are if you want 6 frames per second from from the 5D. Especially if they are saying its a new sensor design completely. Maybe it requires the horsepower.

I do know that 12800 iso is going to make concert shooting in dim nightclubs sooooo much easier! Larger venues have brighter lights, but smaller clubs don't always have the luxury.

I've shot in clubs at ISO 3200, 1/60, and f1.8 just to get something I could push later because the lighting was so dim. I couldn't bear a slower shutter because it would just blur from energetic musicians moving around. 2 more stops brings me to 1/125, and f2.8 or so. Decent enough to get a little more focus and less movement.

[I Simonius]

The only thing that seems fishy to me are the dual processors. Is that necessary?

and the 6fps, that sounds fishy to me too, how are they going to shift a FF shutter that fast with normal batteries? I don't see it

(don't need 6fps anyway - what's that for - a rapidly moving bride?:rolleyes:)

[Blue S2]

Well a 1.3 crop shutter is moving at 10 or 11fps...why couldnt a slightly bigger FF shutter move at half that speed? The 1v shutter moves at 10fps and its "full frame."

As long as they can process the images fast enough, the shutter won't be the issue. I don't think battery will be the issue either. Its processing. I figure thats where the dual-digic 3 is coming in too.

[Yohan Pamudji]

and the 6fps, that sounds fishy to me too, how are they going to shift a FF shutter that fast with normal batteries? I don't see it

(don't need 6fps anyway - what's that for - a rapidly moving bride?:rolleyes:)

Actually had one of those this weekend. Ok, so they were just walking-down-the-aisle shots, but I was thankful for the 8fps and deep buffer of my 1DII.

This newest "strong" rumor is really too good to be true. It hits every point on my wishlist and more (well, except for 100% viewfinder which still might be in it, but the noise performance, AF, frame rate, and weather sealing more than make up for that). For now it's hopeful skepticism for me. It would be like Christmas in April (or June when it's rumored to start shipping) if true.

Nice Wodehouse quote, by the way :)

[Blue S2]

It doesn't seem to good to be true at all. It's the current 5D brought up to today's newest features. Technology has changed since 2004/05. Why do people find such things so hard to believe?

Most of these features are in the D3 as well. Why can't Canon pull it off in their own style. Pentax is weather sealing their bodies, everyone's frame rates are improving, everyone's noise is getting better, processing has gotten better, focusing has gotten better (no 1d jokes here...), etc...

Its not unrealistic for a manufacturer to put out a product below the flagship that shows off the best of what they can do. I think the term "flagship" in cameras is a little off as well. Its a different style of tool. To many professionals, the 5D offered better functionality and quality than the 1dsmkII. The 1Ds is their most expensive tool offered, not necessarily the "one camera to rule them all." The new 5D will have a different market and will cater heavily to it as the first one did.

[Yohan Pamudji]

It's too good to be true because it bucks the established Canon mentality of holding back so-called "pro" features from the non-pro lines--100% VF, pro AF, weather sealing, etc. I've been saying ever since the Pentax K10D that Canon are skimping on weather sealing and multiple cross-type AF sensors for no reason if Pentax can pack them into a cheaper camera than the Canon 30D, and ever since the Nikon D300 came out that now Canon have no excuses as far as keeping pro features to the 2 most expensive cameras in their lineup (I think it's safe to say that feature-wise aside from sensor size, the D300 makes the 5D look like a joke). It's really high time Canon came out with a camera with the rumored specs--long overdue and merely reacting to market pressure instead of leading the market IMO.

There's really no financial or technical reason (aside from the gaudy noise performance claims maybe) that Canon can't come out with a camera like this right now, so in that sense it's not too good to be true. It's just that it'd be a real change in attitude from them, so I'll believe it when I see it.

[fi20100]

I think Canon needs to do what Nikon did with the D300 and D3, that is come out with something far ahead expectations. Being the lead dog for some years has perhaps made them too careful, and it's time to wow the Canon users again :)

[Yohan Pamudji]

You're nicer than me. "Careful" isn't the word I would've picked :D

[Blue S2]

Well, Canon now has competition, especially with Sony offering FF sensors soon, and probably will sell them to others.

Times are changing in the digital camera market as well. Certain features they will hold back for technical reasons. You will not see a 100% viewfinder in an XT or 40D, etc... It has to do with the prism housing, and I suspect the on-board flash.

The market for the XT just doesn't require 49 point autofocus with breath-taking tracking. Its entry level. The 5D has a 97% VF or close. Not 100%...but its VF is way better than the entry level. Its marketing position is inline with that. The other cameras will get upgraded features, but what was once a "pro feature" may soon become outdated by the market or new innovations. Weather sealing has shown to be a demand and other manufacturers made the first move to offer it to non-top-end models. Canon will follow suit eventually. 11fps won't be in a lesser body. An entry level designation assumes "entry" or "new." 3 or 4 or 5 frames per second will be plenty for someone in an "entry level."

I don't think Canon is holding anything back. They are placing their products where they should be. I find their offerings to be strong and decently competitive. And now that they finally have real competition, I believe they will become even stronger in the next round.

Everyone wants every top end feature in a $600 camera. This is the whole digital age consumer mentality. The constant upgrade march. Funny how people could use a Mamiya 645 or a Leica M, or Nikon F, or 4x5 field cameras for 20 years and not technically have an upgrade and still produce all the pictures we see published all around the world. Then digital comes along and people are upside down about features.

[I Simonius]

Its processing. I figure thats where the dual-digic 3 is coming in too.

If you say so..;)

but I was thankful for the 8fps and deep buffer of my 1DII.

must'ave been walking quickly eh? I hope they didn't hit your buffers:p;)



This newest "strong" rumor is really too good to be true. It hits every point on my wishlist and more (well, except for 100% viewfinder which still might be in it, but the noise performance, AF, frame rate, and weather sealing more than make up for that). For now it's hopeful skepticism for me. It would be like Christmas in April (or June when it's rumored to start shipping) if true.

a 100%VF is a super strong wish for me, people rarely coment on what a difference it makes but to me it rates as one of the highest on the list for improving not only the photography but the quality of the experience of using the camera

Nice Wodehouse quote, by the way :)

:Dta everso;)

I think Canon needs to do what Nikon did with the D300 and D3, that is come out with something far ahead expectations. Being the lead dog for some years has perhaps made them too careful, and it's time to wow the Canon users again :)

yup about time canon , c'mon... wow us!

[Yohan Pamudji]

must'ave been walking quickly eh? I hope they didn't hit your buffers:p;)


If it were just the bride + groom no problem, but the attendants were jumping the gun and starting their getaway walks before the previous couple finished theirs, so I was shooting in lots of short bursts for a few minutes solid--no time to let the buffer cool down :)

[Yohan Pamudji]

Well, Canon now has competition, especially with Sony offering FF sensors soon, and probably will sell them to others.

Thank goodness for competition. And that's my point--unfortunately Canon seem to be lagging behind in quite a few areas, leaving innovation and risk taking to other manufacturers and following suit once demand for a feature is clearly established. If the 5DII materializes with these specs as rumored, we can thank Nikon as the main agent of change, and Pentax and Olympus to a smaller extent. It's disappointing that it takes a shakeup from other camera makers for Canon to wake up, but regardless of the reason, the sooner it happens the better.

Everyone wants every top end feature in a $600 camera.

Why not? Wouldn't you? Be honest ;) But I'm setting my sights a lot lower than that. I'd just like to have a $2200-$3500 camera that isn't far eclipsed in features by $700-$1800 cameras. I know a lot of top-end features won't make it into the 5DII, and I won't be disappointed if they don't--product segmentation demands that cameras at different price points contain varying levels of features. That's just normal. But as you said, times change and technology marches on. It's time for the 5DII to be much more than a 40D with a FF sensor, the way the 5D was basically a 20D with a FF sensor. Other manufacturers have raised the bar, and the rumored 5DII specs are exactly what they need in this current market environment.

Really, we agree more than we disagree :)

[Blue S2]

I agree.

In terms of getting the best for the lowest price...i've been on both sides of this as the consumer and as a producer.

I honestly would love to pay $100 and have a Leica M7 sized camera with Phase One P25+ processing. Then there is reality.

There are trade offs. The entry level cameras have a crappy button layout, horrendous viewfinder, cheap materials, and uncomfortable proportions. It only makes sense that something has to give when adding features.

Why can't the viewfinders in these cameras be half decent? You would think even for the cost of a 5D you get a decent view. Nope. I spent a good deal of money on a Brightscreen replacement and I just ordered their viewfinder as well. Why should I have to pay? Why can't Canon offer good viewfinders when entry level cameras from the 60s and 70s have better screens??

The other reason so many people complain is because this is not a professional tool...its a hobby. A passion, an artform, etc... Professionals that make a decent living can right off the expense of equipment, finance large purchases, and have the income to justify tools to offer the highest level of quality.

Someone who does this in their spare time will obviously not always have the means to deal with this. Its like racing. A race team spends millions to ensure their cars run weekly. I can go to the track weekly too...but as a hobby, the cost is just prohibitive, even on such an amateur basis. I've never heard anyone complain about their $2000 set of tires (not rims...rubber). I could easily go through two sets in a season. I make sure I don't! And i'll sure as heck not use entry level rubber! HAHA.

[mattograph]

and the 6fps, that sounds fishy to me too, how are they going to shift a FF shutter that fast with normal batteries? I don't see it

(don't need 6fps anyway - what's that for - a rapidly moving bride?:rolleyes:)

Yep, runaway brides!!!:)

[I Simonius]

If it were just the bride + groom no problem, but the attendants were jumping the gun and starting their getaway walks before the previous couple finished theirs, so I was shooting in lots of short bursts for a few minutes solid--no time to let the buffer cool down :)

Know what you mean ! Tha's why I stopped doing weddings - I remember now - too stressful!;)

[I Simonius]

Yep, runaway brides!!!:)

:lol: gonna catch me one of those!:lol:;)

[BugEyes]

These new speculations sounds more like wishful thinking than inside info to me but I would not mind at all being wrong about that.

6 fps, why not? Nikon does it and I don't think it's a shutter technical limitation but a processor speed one on the 5D.

15-16 mp is where we all expect it to be resolutionwise.

But the dual processor and weather proofing in the rumor makes me doubt it strongly.

[PiRho]

we all know that the "announcement" will be made on April 1, as an april fools joke!
LOL

I agree that there are a lot of things in the rumor that make me doubt the whole thing. besides my cannon insider has told me nothing about this! LOL

~Z

[fi20100]

I guess Canon came out with a new firmware for the old 5D instead of a 5D Mk2 :D

[Yohan Pamudji]

The "other" 5DII thread is gaining steam, but I'm staying loyal to this one... for now :)

I saw that the originator of the latest 5DII rumor has changed the number of cross-type AF sensors from 12 to 13 claiming a typo in his original.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=27164290

Which is good, because I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how 12 points would be arranged. An odd number makes more sense. Unfortunately the best I can currently envision with 13 points is an expanded diamond layout--I hate that diamond layout. Well, unless they manage to spread it out to cover more of the frame and put points at or close to the rule-of-thirds intersection points, at which point I wouldn't mind so much.

Please excuse my lack of text-drawing skills, but I"ll give it a shot anyway:


*
* * *
* * * * *
* * *
*

[Meaty0]

Hey maybeeeeee Canon is planning a 5D Mk II with a High Dynamic Range sensor...one of my big wishes.. a camera that can capture detail over at least 10 stops (or more) range with no blown out areas...

[Tom W]

I saw that the originator of the latest 5DII rumor has changed the number of cross-type AF sensors from 12 to 13 claiming a typo in his original.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=27164290


*
* * *
* * * * *
* * *
*


Well, the original post (before he changed it) did state that 12 were cross-type sensitive with f/2.8 or faster, but it didn't mention whether the center AF sensor was perhaps a cross-type that was sensitive to f/4, f/5.6, or f/8 lenses.

[Sfordphoto]

* 15.3 MP full frame CMOS sensor (vastly improved light-gathering capacity per pixel: improved micro lenses; miniaturized micro circuitry; enhanced signal/noise ratio)
* Weather sealing same as 1Ds Mark III
* Dual Digic III with all-new "CXR" NR system reported to best 3rd party NR software. Available as a C.F with 4 levels of customizable parameters.
* 14 bit A/D conversion
* ISO 12800 (C.F. up to 25600)
* Reported 1 2/3 stop sensitivity improvement
* All-new 29-point TTL CMOS sensor with 12 cross-type for F/2.8 or faster lens (35% faster than 40D)
* Micro lens fine adjustment for up to 14 lenses
* 300,000 exposure shutter durability
* 6.0 / 3.0 fps
* 3.0" LCD 922,000 pixels
* EOS Integrated Cleaning System
* Live View (improved from 450D; latest generation)
* 6/3 fps continuous shooting for up to 68 frames
* MSRP $3499, available June 2

hubba hubba. To me, 15mp makes sense, since 20D was 8mp and 5D was 12mp...50% increase over xxD. Not terribly sure about 6 fps and dual digic though...but at $3500... maybe.

[I Simonius]

hubba hubba. To me, 15mp makes sense, since 20D was 8mp and 5D was 12mp...50% increase over xxD. Not terribly sure about 6 fps and dual digic though...but at $3500... maybe.

upon further reading I doubt 6fps could be managed but 5, yes.
I'd be surprised if they included dual digic but wouldn't rule it out. That's more of a question of expense though rather than tech possibility, can't see it at the suggested price point - unless of course that'ss the way canon will be going with all future models inc maybe even the 40/50D

The "other" 5DII thread is gaining steam, but I'm staying loyal to this one... for now :)

Which is good, because I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how 12 points would be arranged. An odd number makes more sense. Unfortunately the best I can currently envision with 13 points is an expanded diamond layout--I hate that diamond layout. Well, unless they manage to spread it out to cover more of the frame and put points at or close to the rule-of-thirds intersection points, at which point I wouldn't mind so much.

Please excuse my lack of text-drawing skills, but I"ll give it a shot anyway:


*
* * *
* * * * *
* * *
*


This thread is the greatest! yay! (thread loyalty - aint that something?;):D)

the arrangement of focussing points is a big bone of contention AFAIC. They are only useful in diamond pattern in landscape format IMO, once you switch to portrait orientation the cantre AF point is the only one you can use. WE definuitely need an arrangement where in portrait mode it gives point located at the left and right eye. Focus recompose wit the slow focussing 85Lmk2 is a nightmare hit or miss situation and not much better even with other lenses!

So fingers crossed on the AF pattern for te next itteration of the 5D - lets have more choice at eye level of the sitter

[I Simonius]

I guess Canon came out with a new firmware for the old 5D instead of a 5D Mk2 :D

talkingof which: 5D firmware update to 1.1.1 (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eos5d/eos5d_firmware-e.html)
to recognise the latest lenses in the exif:

[fi20100]

talkingof which: 5D firmware update to 1.1.1 (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eos5d/eos5d_firmware-e.html)
to recognise the latest lenses in the exif:

Yeah :) I tried to be ironic ;) :p

[I Simonius]

Yeah :) I tried to be ironic ;) :p

I know - just thought I'd mention it in passing anyway as I hadn't seen it myself...:p

[lowcrust]

How about:


* * * *
* * * * *
* * * *


or...

* * *
* *
* * *
* *
* * *

[Jim G]

How about:


* * * *
* * * * *
* * * *

or...

* * *
* *
* * *
* *
* * *


Hrm, that first one isn't a half bad idea...

[I Simonius]

How about:


* * * *
* * * * *
* * * *


or...

* * *
* *
* * *
* *
* * *


difficult to evaluate without knowing where the frame borders are relative to the side points

IF at the very edge then I don't think it would be very ideal:cry:

[mattograph]

difficult to evaluate without knowing where the frame borders are relative to the side points

IF at the very edge then I don't think it would be very ideal:cry:

Wow.

This is starting to remind me of the whole hoopla surrounding the Segway before it came out.:)

I am now afraid they will NEVER come out with new 5D -- they are just teasing us, like Richard Branson is teasing us with space flight.

[VTSHEP1]

How about:


* * * *
* * * * *
* * * *


or...

* * *
* *
* * *
* *
* * *



Hmmm, I like the second more than the first. For me its important to have them on the intersection of the thirds and one in the center. I just dont need that many clustered around the center, it must be for portrait work I guess. Of course the more the merrier, but i feel like if i had just the 13 below i would be very happy (the end of the frame is the solid lines on either side):


* *
* * * * *
* * * *
* *
* * * * *
* *
* * * *
* * * * *
* *


Ideal would be four more in my opinion:

* *
* * * * *
* * * *
* * * *
* * * * *
* * * *
* * * *
* * * * *
* *


Why are camera makers married to the diamond formation?

Note: Wow this looks terrible i am editing...done...whew...that spacing wasnt fun for the diagrams.

[I Simonius]

Hmmm, I like the second more than the first. For me its important to have them on the intersection of the thirds and one in the center. I just dont need that many clustered around the center, it must be for portrait work I guess. Of course the more the merrier, but i feel like if i had just the 13 below i would be very happy (the end of the frame is the solid lines on either side):


* *
* * * * *
* * * *
* *
* * * * *
* *
* * * *
* * * * *
* *


Ideal would be four more in my opinion:

* *
* * * * *
* * * *
* * * *
* * * * *
* * * *
* * * *
* * * * *
* *


Why are camera makers married to the diamond formation?

Note: Wow this looks terrible i am editing...done...whew...that spacing wasnt fun for the diagrams.

could we get them individualised to stellar configurations or our Astrological star signs?

e.g. Orion or sagitarius:p

[wernersl]

See HERE (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5106806&postcount=76) for my post from about a week ago. this was my guess as to the layout according to that (dare i say silly) rumor of the new 5d. the pretty pink squares represent cross type sensors. there is no logical way for 12 points to be cross sensitive as you can see, so after i posted this the OP of the RUMOR changed his statement and said OOPS...i meant 13 points. anyway...attached is my reasoning for choosing the far right point for the 12th cross sensor...

[lowcrust]

Yes... but that pattern make no sense rumor or no rumor.

[wernersl]

Yes... but that pattern make no sense rumor or no rumor.
expand please

[John_TX]

B&H is out of stock on the 5D Kit (w/24-105L) @ $2899.
Amazon still has it for $2749

Not sure how often these kinda things go out of stock, but you'd think B&H would have a handle on keeping stuff stocked.

I wonder if B&H is purposefully reducing their 5D inventory @ a price premium to make way for the 5D replacement?

[Jim G]

B&H is out of stock on the 5D Kit (w/24-105L) @ $2899.
Amazon still has it for $2749

Not sure how often these kinda things go out of stock, but you'd think B&H would have a handle on keeping stuff stocked.

I wonder if B&H is purposefully reducing their 5D inventory @ a price premium to make way for the 5D replacement?


Nahhh... stores like that seem to run out of stock of a lot of things from time to time - probably as much due to their suppliers as anything else, one would imagine...

[lowcrust]

Might just be as simple as B&H picked up on the rumor and decided true or not they might just keep an eye on the market so that they don't overstock, which is very dangerous for sores like B&H.

[mattograph]

Are we still holding our breath on the April 1 rumor?

[jonas18z]

Hmmm, I like the second more than the first. For me its important to have them on the intersection of the thirds and one in the center. I just dont need that many clustered around the center, it must be for portrait work I guess. Of course the more the merrier, but i feel like if i had just the 13 below i would be very happy (the end of the frame is the solid lines on either side):


Ideal would be four more in my opinion:

Why are camera makers married to the diamond formation?

Note: Wow this looks terrible i am editing...done...whew...that spacing wasnt fun for the diagrams.

or this

************ * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
****** * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* *******


This will cover the most of the viewfinder :D

[John_TX]

I'm thinking something like this ;)



__
/ /\
/ / \
/ / \__________
/ / \ /\
/_/ \ / /
___\ \ ___\____/_/_
/____\ \ /___________/\
\ \ \ \ \ \
\ \ \ \____ \ \
\ \ \ / /\ \ \
\ / \_\/ / / \ \
\ / / /__________\/
/ / / /
/ / / /
/________/ /\ /
\________\/\ \ /
\_\/

[Chandler.]

^^that is awesome :)

I was bored, so I made this one. 13 cross type, 29 total, as stated in the rumor.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9342/5dmkiifocusdiagramyx0.jpg

[AngryCorgi]

The REAL new Canon 5D AF system...92 AF points, 39 cross-type (shown in red)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/2366741903_1ee2cd17af_o.jpg

Should be nice!

[lowcrust]

expand please

Sorry I missed this. Yeah I meant your points are all in cliqued together in the middle. And, as you say, having one lone runner to the right seem silly at best.

[Chandler.]

The REAL new Canon 5D AF system...92 AF points, 39 cross-type (shown in red)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/2366741903_1ee2cd17af_o.jpg

Should be nice!

This looks ideal. Should be the best AF system on the market.

[AngryCorgi]

This looks ideal. Should be the best AF system on the market.

Yeah, I think they captured a very good coverage area with that setup. I like how they spread the cross-type sensors around to maximize their usage.

BTW, I can't say who my source on this is. Canon may fire him if they know he leaked it!!

[Phate]

Noob time!

How does that AF system work? I don't understand it :(

Can anyone give a noob some advice? :) I'll pay you in virtual backrubs :D

[lowcrust]

For starters try not to take anything in this thread too serious. To answer your question more specifically, the answer is blowing in the wind... =)

[Yohan Pamudji]

For starters try not to take anything in this thread too serious. To answer your question more specifically, the answer is blowing in the wind... =)

It's like one of those 3D stereogram pictures--defocus your eyes a bit and you'll see it!

[Phate]

For starters try not to take anything in this thread too serious. To answer your question more specifically, the answer is blowing in the wind... =)


I'm not, it's just rumours after all! :) But I don't get you...it's nearly 1am and I'm hung over...so do I get any more clues? :P

It's like one of those 3D stereogram pictures--defocus your eyes a bit and you'll see it!

I was never good at those :mad: I'll try though :)

[lbennett]

Hmmm that autofocus smacks of contempt. I like :)
Hint- don't just read one color- which is what i tried to do for about 10 minutes. ha ha!

[I Simonius]

played with the 1Dsmk3 yesterday (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5239515&postcount=641),makes it clear what the 5Dmk2 needs IMO

[wernersl]

Sorry I missed this. Yeah I meant your points are all in cliqued together in the middle. And, as you say, having one lone runner to the right seem silly at best.
yeah i know...then again the whole rumor seems a little silly. besides...was just a guess.

[farrukh]

??????

[stathunter]

blows

[mattograph]

??????


I don't get it. Can someone draw me a picture?

[AngryCorgi]

Was it really that hard to understand?

[Chandler.]

So true. Nikon does dlow.

[mattograph]

Was it really that hard to understand?

No, but now we know why the Corgi is Angry!

[vpnd]

heres what I heard

[~nat~]

haha, good image.

One thing I'd like to go with the 3200iso, a iso independent dial.

[datadump]

this thread is totally trash now.

[BugEyes]

this thread is totally trash now.

Yup, make something up that can have me fooled please ;)
It's more interesting that way.

[mattograph]

What we need is a good hunger strike.

[lowcrust]

this thread is totally trash now.

Yep the first 98 pages were awesome, and now THIS!

Hmmph!

[JohnnyG]

Only a few more and we'll have 100 pages!;)

[John_TX]

Only a few more and we'll have 100 pages!;)

Doing my duty...oh yeah, I was told to expect something "interesting" on April 14!

[mattograph]

While we wait for the big announcement from canon, would anyone like to post any pics they have taken of spam?

[John_TX]

Not mine, but I thought it was fitting!

[Yohan Pamudji]

Doing my duty...oh yeah, I was told to expect something "interesting" on April 14!

So the magic number has changed from 22 to 14? Works for me.

[mattograph]

Not mine, but I thought it was fitting!

Looks like tuna. Perhaps a new feature on the 5DMKII:

Cn 67 -- In camera animal material interpretation. Take a picture of a meat product, and choose from one of the following, and your image will be rendered accordingly.

01-Chicken
02-Tuna
03-Kobi Beef
04-Tofu

[JohnnyG]

So the magic number has changed from 22 to 14? Works for me.
I heard from my trash collector that's heard of Canon cameras that there will be 2 announcements, one on the 14th and one on the 22nd. The one on the 14th will be something and the one on the 22 will be something else!

You heard it here first, now remember that!!!

[lowcrust]

Hmm, what animal was Tofu from again?

[mattograph]

Hmm, what animal was Tofu from again?

Tofu?

Platypus.

[gpx4]

A real entry level DSLR, lower than the 450D to compete with the D40X and D60.:)


I heard from my trash collector that's heard of Canon cameras that there will be 2 announcements, one on the 14th and one on the 22nd. The one on the 14th will be something and the one on the 22 will be something else!

You heard it here first, now remember that!!!

[JohnnyG]

Hmm, what animal was Tofu from again?
I think it's a To, or something like that.

I heard of Toejam before but not sure about Tofu, not sure about "fu".:)

[mattograph]

I think it's a To, or something like that.

I heard of Toejam before but not sure about Tofu, not sure about "fu".:)

The fu is from the ancient art of preparing to. You use Num Chuks, throwing stars, and Ninja swords. Invented by the original Iron Chef, named Kung.

[JohnnyG]

The fu is from the ancient art of preparing to. You use Num Chuks, throwing stars, and Ninja swords. Invented by the original Iron Chef, named Kung.
Ah Ha, Lotus Blossom! Your Mandarin is impeccable!;)

[I Simonius]

having tried the 1dsmk3 all I can say is that whilst I aint lugging that particular brick around I would give my right gonad for that viewfinder to be put on the 5Dmk2:eek:

Stunning:D

[AdamJL]

^ Yep, it's a peach of a camera. I'm struggling to convince myself I don't need one and that I can wait until the 5D successor.

[I Simonius]

^ Yep, it's a peach of a camera. I'm struggling to convince myself I don't need one and that I can wait until the 5D successor.

same boat (£££permitting!;-))

[Chandler.]

It's the 14th. I'm on the edge of my seat...

[I Simonius]

It's the 14th. I'm on the edge of my seat...

Oh yes so you are...:lol:

Not long now my pretties:p:lol:

[pickle1]

Just to bring it back to reality:

I gave up on the 5DII and bought 2 MKIII's. No looking back. I like them a whole lot more than I thought and have used them extensively and am impressed with the ISO 6400.

[pickle1]

Oh, and the announcement on the new 5D is going to be May not April.

Canon had some problems on the first batch of 5DII's and recalled them before they went public. The problem was fixed with a firmware patch and the anomaly is now gone.

Peace out.

[John_TX]

Oh, and the announcement on the new 5D is going to be May not April.

Canon had some problems on the first batch of 5DII's and recalled them before they went public. The problem was fixed with a firmware patch and the anomaly is now gone.

Peace out.

While we're all being pretty flippant :lol: I think there's a limited list of reasons why a full roll-out of XSi's has been delayed until June 15, 2008 according to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-Rebel-Camera-Black/dp/B0012Y88QQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1208232795&sr=1-2).

I'm thinking they either found a significant last minute issue with the XSi's OR they pushed back physical production of the XSi to get the 5D Mk II line running at full tilt (and build up a nice surplus to they can have product on the shelves the day of announcement).

Seeing as those lucky enough to snag some of the first XSi's haven't reported any major issues, I'm guessing all hands on deck were getting the 5D Mk II ready, presumably at the expense of a quicker delivery date for the XSi.

[Chandler.]

Can't we at least get a photoshop version of the 5D with the buttons moved around as a teaser? :)