NEW 5D RUMOUR !!

[kristofor]

indeed leak it quickly so we know what's coming and can save up more money for it

[Sprout Crumble]

er.. the FF sensor...;)


Isn't that the same size as a bit of film.........:p

[lowcrust]

Strange... I had a reply tucked inbetween Yohan Pamudji and JohnnyG but now it's gone. I have no clue why it was deleted, all I said was that a flash comes with a price, either in hard cash or other features.

To elaborate; That's why I don't want to see a flash, it makes no sense to have one on a semi-professional camara (I don't even use the built-in on my 350D).

[I Simonius]

Isn't that the same size as a bit of film.........:p

not quite;)

have a look at some of the online instructions for sensor cleaning (http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/) and you'll see there's a lot more to it than a thin bit of 24mm by 36mm film, there's the various filters and electronics that go with it making it a lot more bulky than a single frame of 35mm film

[Sprout Crumble]

Theres no more stuff in the pentaprism than before though and thats where the flash would be. I think its a percieved thing within Canon to distinguish between what they call pro and amateur.
In reality that distinction has blurred away to almost nothing.

[JohnnyG]

Bottom line: I think it's pretty crappy that Canon can't afford to put a flash in a 5D! Yeah, right!!! It's just their way of saving a buck and screwing the consumer.

I hear this stuff about that the 5D is a pro-sumer level camera and pros don't want the flash. Well fine! But, what about the consumer part of that equation??? I would imagine that most consumers want it.

Oh well, what's new!

[I Simonius]

Theres no more stuff in the pentaprism than before though and thats where the flash would be. I think its a percieved thing within Canon to distinguish between what they call pro and amateur.
In reality that distinction has blurred away to almost nothing.

Bottom line: I think it's pretty crappy that Canon can't afford to put a flash in a 5D! Yeah, right!!! It's just their way of saving a buck and screwing the consumer.

I hear this stuff about that the 5D is a pro-sumer level camera and pros don't want the flash. Well fine! But, what about the consumer part of that equation??? I would imagine that most consumers want it.

Oh well, what's new!

I think you chaps may have not got it right here because the larger sensor=larger mirror=larger VF space

[Little Rocker]

Bottom line: I think it's pretty crappy that Canon can't afford to put a flash in a 5D! Yeah, right!!! It's just their way of saving a buck and screwing the consumer.

I hear this stuff about that the 5D is a pro-sumer level camera and pros don't want the flash. Well fine! But, what about the consumer part of that equation??? I would imagine that most consumers want it.

Oh well, what's new!


I think most 5d users would use a slave. Besides the fact they provide better flash, they also don't wear down the camera battery(which is already on the weak side on the 5d).

Little Rocker

[Yohan Pamudji]

I think you chaps may have not got it right here because the larger sensor=larger mirror=larger VF space

I think it might be artificial differentiation by Canon. The Elan 7 has a pop-up flash despite its full frame "sensor", while the 3 and 1V do not. Is there something from a technical perspective stopping Canon from putting a pop-up flash on a 5D or 1D-series? Not as far as I know, but I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

[narlus]

Just saw this...

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/purported-shots-of-canon-5d-mark-ii-surface-online/

Rumour at this point, so take it with a grain of salt


how could i live w/o the direct print button?

[CoolToolGuy]

Bottom line: I think it's pretty crappy that Canon can't afford to put a flash in a 5D! Yeah, right!!! It's just their way of saving a buck and screwing the consumer.

I hear this stuff about that the 5D is a pro-sumer level camera and pros don't want the flash. Well fine! But, what about the consumer part of that equation??? I would imagine that most consumers want it.

Oh well, what's new!

One issue might be the lenses that typically go on a FF body like the 1 series and 5D. I cannot use the built-in flash (on either the Digital Rebel or the 20D) with my EF 24-70 f2.8L due to the length and diameter of the lens barrel - the lens creates a shadow that shows up at the bottom of the frame, even with the hood off. I have the same issue with the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS at the extreme wide end. To fix it would require the built-in flash to pop up farther, and unless they come up with some sort of scissors affair it would require the closed-up flash to protrude farther forward over the lens.

My 2 cents.

Have Fun,

[I Simonius]

I think it might be artificial differentiation by Canon. The Elan 7 has a pop-up flash despite its full frame "sensor", while the 3 and 1V do not. Is there something from a technical perspective stopping Canon from putting a pop-up flash on a 5D or 1D-series? Not as far as I know, but I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

Don't know but personally would much rather it didnt have a pop up, if nothing else it would make it less waterproof:cry:

[I Simonius]

how could i live w/o the direct print button?

hmmm.. can anyone see the MLU button?
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/06/purported-shots-of-canon-5d-mark-ii-surface-online/

maybe the print menu's been relegated top the CF menu as well?

[Yohan Pamudji]

Come on, guys. Let's stop staring at the "leaked" photo. The author of it admitted it was fake, and even posted an animated gif of various stages of his photoshop work. Very impressive work, but fake.

[I Simonius]

Come on, guys. Let's stop staring at the "leaked" photo. The author of it admitted it was fake, and even posted an animated gif of various stages of his photoshop work. Very impressive work, but fake.

Aw I like 'leaked' photos- even fake ones!;)

:D :D

[JohnnyG]

Aw I like 'leaked' photos- even fake ones!;)

:D :D
Me too! I just love all this rumor stuff! It's really very entertaining and it will be terrible, in my opinion, once it's over.

So let's enjoy it while it lasts or at least let us enjoy it while it lasts!

[Yohan Pamudji]

Aw I like 'leaked' photos- even fake ones!;)

:D :D

Gotta admit, the guy did some amazing photoshop work, didn't he?

[I Simonius]

AT LAST some real rumour that there will be a new 5D at Photokina! Hurrah!

[kristofor]

AT LAST some real rumour that there will be a new 5D at Photokina! Hurrah!

Any links to this rumour?

It really does need an update.

[JohnnyG]

AT LAST some real rumour that there will be a new 5D at Photokina! Hurrah!
You're looking at the fall of 08 so soon???

Yeah, you're right though. It may be then before the new 5D comes out. Yikes! and i'm worried about this fall for the 40D..... If it happens then because I don't see any serious "leaked" rumors yet.:(

[kristofor]

You're looking at the fall of 08 so soon???

Yeah, you're right though. It may be then before the new 5D comes out. Yikes! and i'm worried about this fall for the 40D..... If it happens then because I don't see any serious "leaked" rumors yet.:(

I doubt we will get any leaked rumors untill after nikon make their announcements this week. That way Canon can steal some spotlight

[JohnnyG]

I doubt we will get any leaked rumors untill after nikon make their announcements this week. That way Canon can steal some spotlightDarn, I'll clutch at any straw I guess, even a nikon one.....

[I Simonius]

I doubt we will get any leaked rumors untill after nikon make their announcements this week. That way Canon can steal some spotlight

Yup that's what Canon do every year :lol:

Darn, I'll clutch at any straw I guess, even a nikon one.....

me too!;) :D :lol:

[Meaty0]

Okay folks...release date for the new 5D must be soon now. Two of our larger Canon agents here in Brisbane have just dropped their prices on the current 5D to "ridiculuously" low levels. Ooooo I can hardly wait!

[lowcrust]

How low is that, exactly?

[kristofor]

I agree,

Where in brisbane. If it's a good price I want one!!

[I Simonius]

I like this: oh yers...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/7d.htm
;):p

[Stergiopilus]

I agree,

Where in brisbane. If it's a good price I want one!!

Photocontinental have the 5D body only for $3190 AUD at the moment. I e-mailed them whether it was a special or what, and they said there had just been a price drop, so that is the new price.

[Meaty0]

I agree,

Where in brisbane. If it's a good price I want one!!


Sorry for the late reply. Yes Photocontinental have them and so does THIS ONLINE DEALER NEAR BRISBANE. (http://www.camerasdirect.com.au/index.php)

[I Simonius]

RIGHT- THAT DOES IT!

40D rumour is out and I wnat the 5D rumour out NOW!

(Slams dusty old hat on floor and stamps on it)

Whee is the 'official' leak for the 5D?:p

[Rubi Jane]

I was just booking a rental with Vistek in Toronto and the rep fed me that the 5D MkII would be out this Fall with the same 16MP full-frame sensor as the Canon 1Ds Mk II. In the same breath he confirmed the 40D would be out in a matter of weeks.

Hmmm, to buy a current 5D when the price drops or the 5D MkII. I doubt I really need 16MP so I'll see what other goodies get added before I decide.

[I Simonius]

I was just booking a rental with Vistek in Toronto and the rep fed me that the 5D MkII would be out this Fall with the same 16MP full-frame sensor as the Canon 1Ds Mk II. In the same breath he confirmed the 40D would be out in a matter of weeks.

Hmmm, to buy a current 5D when the price drops or the 5D MkII. I doubt I really need 16MP so I'll see what other goodies get added before I decide.

You can buy mine secondhand (but in XLent condition) when I upgrade!;):D

[Yohan Pamudji]

I was just booking a rental with Vistek in Toronto and the rep fed me that the 5D MkII would be out this Fall with the same 16MP full-frame sensor as the Canon 1Ds Mk II. In the same breath he confirmed the 40D would be out in a matter of weeks.

That would be a step back in my opinion. High ISO noise is better on the 5D than the 1DsII. I'd rather have a cleaner 12MP than a noisier 16MP. Here's hoping that it's 16MP but in a redesigned sensor instead of reusing a sensor with older tech.

[I Simonius]

That would be a step back in my opinion. High ISO noise is better on the 5D than the 1DsII. I'd rather have a cleaner 12MP than a noisier 16MP. Here's hoping that it's 16MP but in a redesigned sensor instead of reusing a sensor with older tech.

Digic III !;):D

[Yohan Pamudji]

Digic III !;):D

Digic III isn't magic :) The 1D III has better high ISO performance than the IIN because of redesigned microlenses as well as Digic III processing. The 5DII won't have that benefit if it reuses the 1DsII sensor.

[Rubi Jane]

You can buy mine secondhand (but in XLent condition) when I upgrade!;):D
Upgrade before Christmas then, that way I can get my Mum to bring it over when she comes to visit (she's in Lincolnshire). Hmm, maybe it could be my birthday/Xmas pressie from her since they are only 2 days apart ;)

[fr0z]

5Dmk2 is 7D? -> http://www.upcdatabase.com/item.asp?upc=0013803086706

[welangle]

Interesting. I hope the 5D upgrade won't be noisier than the original.

-billy

www.goodpersontest.com

[SunTsu]

Ditto. I really really hope Canon doesn't just plop the old 1D sensor in there thinking higher MP is the end-all.

[I Simonius]

Digic III isn't magic :) The 1D III has better high ISO performance than the IIN because of redesigned microlenses as well as Digic III processing. The 5DII won't have that benefit if it reuses the 1DsII sensor.

yeah I knew that;):p

[I Simonius]

Upgrade before Christmas then, that way I can get my Mum to bring it over when she comes to visit (she's in Lincolnshire). Hmm, maybe it could be my birthday/Xmas pressie from her since they are only 2 days apart ;)

sounds good;)

[I Simonius]

Interesting. I hope the 5D upgrade won't be noisier than the original.


Hussssh, quiet upgrade in progress;):lol:

Ditto. I really really hope Canon doesn't just plop the old 1D sensor in there thinking higher MP is the end-all.

AGREE!:evil:;)

[I Simonius]

I was just booking a rental with Vistek in Toronto and the rep fed me that the 5D MkII would be out this Fall with the same 16MP full-frame sensor as the Canon 1Ds Mk II. In the same breath he confirmed the 40D would be out in a matter of weeks.

Hmmm, to buy a current 5D when the price drops or the 5D MkII. I doubt I really need 16MP so I'll see what other goodies get added before I decide.


At last we now know what the 5D upgrade will have!

It will have all the 40D features including the 'improved' weather resistance (not weatherproofing!)- the only difference being more MPs (16.7?)

And that's it.



but where is it ??? :confused: :cry:

[Punisher77]

It will have all the 40D features including the 'improved' weather resistance (not weatherproofing!)- the only difference being more MPs (16.7?)

And that's it.

but where is it ??? :confused: :cry:

I hope it has more than the 40D otherwise the only point in owning it is full frame. The current 5D has much better tonal control and DR as well as lower noise than the 30D which is another reason (other than FF) that makes it very attractive.

I'm hoping it's out early next year. I've been waiting for it for 9 months now and I'm tempted to get a 40D to hold me over... ;)

[Tom W]

Next February - it'll be around next February. At least that's my guess.
Sensor should be based on that of the 1D3, just as the 5D was based on the 1D2. Around 15.5 to 16 Mpx.

I expect a few additional features over the 40D, but not much. ISO 50 and 6400, perhaps an improved viewfinder over the present 5D (maybe with an available split-image focus screen??), a few invisible "assist" AF points around the center like the present 5D. I'm going to guess 4 frames per second, with a bit larger buffer than present.

I would hope that it's at least as noise-free as the present model, if not moreso.

[Punisher77]

Sensor should be based on that of the 1D3, just as the 5D was based on the 1D2.

1D3 is a 1.3x sensor, not FF.

[JohnnyG]

I read that the 5D would be the 3rd new DSLR announced this fall!

[fi20100]

Naah, I think we need to wait for 2008... February perhaps.

[amoergosum]

I'm gonna wait for the new 5D...it's gonna be off the hook

[Tom W]

1D3 is a 1.3x sensor, not FF.

If you read the white paper for the original 5D ( http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_EOS_5D_White_Paper.pdf ), the basis for the 5D's sensor is the same "wafer" that is used to make the sensor for the 1D2 (which is also a 1.3X camera). They are cut from the same basic mold (though I believe that the 5D's sensor is actually 2 half-pieces fused together). Obviously, the end product is not the same size, but the technology and raw materials come from the same resources. Note that the 5D and 1D2 have the same pixel size and density.

They also share very similar performance characteristics on a per-pixel basis. I've had both, and compared extensively before deciding on the 5D as my camera.

I would expect a similar path to be followed for the replacement for the 5D since it would make more sense for Canon to standardize some parts of the production process.

[Yohan Pamudji]

If you read the white paper for the original 5D ( http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_EOS_5D_White_Paper.pdf ), the basis for the 5D's sensor is the same "wafer" that is used to make the sensor for the 1D2 (which is also a 1.3X camera). They are cut from the same basic mold (though I believe that the 5D's sensor is actually 2 half-pieces fused together). Obviously, the end product is not the same size, but the technology and raw materials come from the same resources. Note that the 5D and 1D2 have the same pixel size and density.

They also share very similar performance characteristics on a per-pixel basis. I've had both, and compared extensively before deciding on the 5D as my camera.

I would expect a similar path to be followed for the replacement for the 5D since it would make more sense for Canon to standardize some parts of the production process.

The 5D and 1DII have identical photosite sizes and similar noise performance. If the pattern holds, I agree with Tom that the 5D replacement's sensor will basically be a 1DIII sensor extended to fullframe--almost identical noise performance but with more pixels. That would put it at, what, 15MP with a top ISO of 6400? Sounds good to me.

[SOX 404]

I read that the 5D would be the 3rd new DSLR announced this fall!
Read from?

[JohnnyG]

Read from?
Good question however my memory is so vast and deep and pornographic that it could be most anywhere because I read a lot but I'll try and find it.:rolleyes::rolleyes: It wasn't official but of course, what is anymore???

I think it was on DPReview or Northlight but I'm not sure. It was by some guy that supposedly knows what he's talking about. I read that quote before the 40D and the 1Ds Mark III was announced so he is 2 out of 3 so far so I would expect him to be right but who really knows for sure??? That's how rumors are, well......... they're rumors!

[Seamless]

my memory is so vast and deep and pornographic

Choice Freudian slip.
Or your photographic portfolio is better than most. ;)

[NickSimcheck]

Good question however my memory is so vast and deep and pornographic that it could be....

*cough*Yeah he said he has a deep photographic memory!*cough*

[I Simonius]

If they do oNE ting different with the 5D it has to be MLU!;):cool:

[Scottes]

The 5D doesn't have mirror lock-up??

[I Simonius]

The 5D doesn't have mirror lock-up??

Of course BUT - Not unless you trawl through the CFns

sorry my bad- I meant MLU *Button*;):D

[Atlasman]

A twin Digic III would certainly peak my interest.

[Scottes]

Of course BUT - Not unless you trawl through the CFns

sorry my bad- I meant MLU *Button*;):D
OK, that's the same way the 10D and 20D work, so that's not a problem.

What other cameras have an MLU button?? Personally I think a dedicated button for MLU would be a waste...

[Tom W]

Of course BUT - Not unless you trawl through the CFns

sorry my bad- I meant MLU *Button*;):D

Well, you can set that up now with the custom mode setting - just turn on mirror lockup and any other mode settings you want and then register the settings. Whenever you put the mode dial to "C", you will have all those registered settings including mirror lockup if you've registered it that way.

The next rendition, if the 40D is any indication, will have 3 such custom modes, and will also allow mirror lockup through the live preview mode.

[I Simonius]

Well, you can set that up now with the custom mode setting - just turn on mirror lockup and any other mode settings you want and then register the settings. Whenever you put the mode dial to "C", you will have all those registered settings including mirror lockup if you've registered it that way.

The next rendition, if the 40D is any indication, will have 3 such custom modes, and will also allow mirror lockup through the live preview mode.

true - except it means you have to have MLU on every registeredsetting you'd fancy .. not ideal. either MLU button or more registerable settings required!:D

[Scottes]

Simon, do you often shoot with a shutter speed between 1 sec and 1/30th? Those are the only times you really need MLU. I do a lot of low-light shooting and night shooting yet I almost never enable MLU.

[I Simonius]

Simon, do you often shoot with a shutter speed between 1 sec and 1/30th? Those are the only times you really need MLU. I do a lot of low-light shooting and night shooting yet I almost never enable MLU.

I don't use much for niight shots , sure do for landscapes though mostly f11 and smaller (often with CP) especially when doing HDR (i.e. bracketed) shots
Its really important to me to make sure the images areas sharp as possibl, that's why I bought the best lenses after all. It does make a difference on non IS lenses on enlargements when shooting with a tripod and MLU v HH @30 th sec etc

So yes it is something I have always used , as a matter of course;)

[I Simonius]

Now that the new Noinks havecome out Canon will have to update the 5D!

Thy can't allow a 12+MP noink and a FF comparitavely cheap (almost half the 1Ds3 cost)noink knock the spots off them.. they will respond Im sure

[mcmadkat]

Anyone here believe that Canon is going to throw the 1DsmkII 16mp sensor in the 5DII? It would seem an easy way for them to make a super camera.

[NickSimcheck]

Anyone here believe that Canon is going to throw the 1DsmkII 16mp sensor in the 5DII? It would seem an easy way for them to make a super camera.

You would think so.

Wouldn't most people be happy with a $2,500 16MP FF camera? (Not 1Ds MKII owners though!)

Make it cheap and use existing hardware. 14 Bit is for the future, so it's nice to have but it's not a must. A larger LCD is always welcome, a AF-ON button is most needed and could be added without much cost.

[lostdoggy]

I believe it could happen!!! At this point in the game its not about 1DsMII its about market share. Besides even if the 5DMII gets the 16MP sensor its still not a 1DsMII.

[Tom W]

Anyone here believe that Canon is going to throw the 1DsmkII 16mp sensor in the 5DII? It would seem an easy way for them to make a super camera.


No, I wouldn't think so. I think that Canon's tooled up for something based on more current technology. The current 5D's sensor is based on that of the 1D2, but in full-frame size. My guess would be that the next rendition of the 5D would use a sensor based on the technology used on the 1D3.

Besides, I think that the low-light high-ISO performance of the current 5D is better than that of the 1Ds2, and I wouldn't want Canon to take a step backwards in that area.

[Yohan Pamudji]

No, I wouldn't think so. I think that Canon's tooled up for something based on more current technology. The current 5D's sensor is based on that of the 1D2, but in full-frame size. My guess would be that the next rendition of the 5D would use a sensor based on the technology used on the 1D3.

Besides, I think that the low-light high-ISO performance of the current 5D is better than that of the 1Ds2, and I wouldn't want Canon to take a step backwards in that area.

Agreed. The 1DsII sensor would be a step backwards in noise performance. We'll see a 1DIII sensor extended to fullframe on the 5D replacement, just like the 5D's sensor is a 1DII sensor extended to fullframe.

[Meaty0]

We might even see a 1Ds Mk111 sensor in the new 5D!

[lowcrust]

Although probably not at 21.026.304 pixels (sorry I just felt the urge to type all of those pixels out!).

[Poe]

I like this: oh yers...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/7d.htm
;):p

When did Ken Rockwell decide to buy Canon gear?

[gpx4]

I hope it has pro AF points like D300:)

[I Simonius]

When did Ken Rockwell decide to buy Canon gear?

Friday;):lol:

[lowcrust]

I'd love to have faster data transfer via the USB port, and preferably, a Firewire 800 port.

Except USB 2 transfer rate is about 50% faster than the fastest CF card on the market.

[Poe]

Friday;):lol:

Must be that his declining nikon referrals have forced him to revamp his business model.

[I Simonius]

I sincerely hope the VF is upgraded to the 100% like the 1D cameras but highly unlikely

That is the ONE trhing I would like more than anything else (except for more MP)

I still find the 5D VF difficult to compose with as I can't see the whoe thing in one glance , unlike the 1Dsmk2 that I looked through (at the shop)

[AngryCorgi]

No, I wouldn't think so. I think that Canon's tooled up for something based on more current technology. The current 5D's sensor is based on that of the 1D2, but in full-frame size. My guess would be that the next rendition of the 5D would use a sensor based on the technology used on the 1D3.

Besides, I think that the low-light high-ISO performance of the current 5D is better than that of the 1Ds2, and I wouldn't want Canon to take a step backwards in that area.

Here we go...

1D2 = 1.25x crop @ 8.2MP (8.2 x 1.25^2) = 12.8MP = 5D
1D3 = 1.25x crop @ 10.1MP (10.1 x 1.25^2) = 15.8MP = 5D2

That's the theory you just proposed...so the 5D2 is not going to be 16MP, it will be 15.8MP? Sounds good enough for me! ;)

[SuzyView]

Oh, I would love that. 15.8 mp. I already own 4 4gb cards, I can't imagine I can get 180 shots on one of those with 15.8. :(

[I Simonius]

Here we go...

1D2 = 1.25x crop @ 8.2MP (8.2 x 1.25^2) = 12.8MP = 5D
1D3 = 1.25x crop @ 10.1MP (10.1 x 1.25^2) = 15.8MP = 5D2

That's the theory you just proposed...so the 5D2 is not going to be 16MP, it will be 15.8MP? Sounds good enough for me! ;)

There'll have to be more than that and DD (de-dust) for me to bother upgrading!;)

[Tom W]

Here we go...

1D2 = 1.25x crop @ 8.2MP (8.2 x 1.25^2) = 12.8MP = 5D
1D3 = 1.25x crop @ 10.1MP (10.1 x 1.25^2) = 15.8MP = 5D2

That's the theory you just proposed...so the 5D2 is not going to be 16MP, it will be 15.8MP? Sounds good enough for me! ;)

yeah, give or take a few tenths of a megapixel.... The 1D3's crop factor is slightly more than 1.25, I think around 1.28 or so based on the actual sensor dimensions vs. 36 X 24 mm. I could go for that if the ISO-6400 is clean, although I will need much more storage space.

[AngryCorgi]

yeah, give or take a few tenths of a megapixel.... The 1D3's crop factor is slightly more than 1.25, I think around 1.28 or so based on the actual sensor dimensions vs. 36 X 24 mm. I could go for that if the ISO-6400 is clean, although I will need much more storage space.

It's 1.254x crop (based on sensor size), and 1.262x crop based upon comparing effective pixels of the 5D vs effective pixels of the 1D3.

[Tom W]

It's 1.254x crop (based on sensor size), and 1.262x crop based upon comparing effective pixels of the 5D vs effective pixels of the 1D3.

The sensor in the Mk III is slightly smaller than that of the Mk II - 28.1 X 18.7 mm on the Mk III vs. 28.7 X 19.1 mm on the Mk IIn. This is from Canon USA (for the Mk III) and the Canon Camera museum (for the Mk IIn). 36/28.1=1.28 - that's where I got that number from, though I was basing it on the full 36X24 mm film frame size vs. the image size specs from Canon.

I suppose it depends on how you calculate the ratio, though. The 5D's sensor is a bit smaller than 36X24 as well - 35.8 X 23.9 mm. And 35.8/28.1=1.27. Of course, if you're calculating the ratio by area instead of linear dimensions, then you would have to square the multiplier, in which case you'd find that the 5D's sensor has 1.61 times the area of the 1D3.

Math is hard - I'm going shopping! :D

[AngryCorgi]

The sensor in the Mk III is slightly smaller than that of the Mk II - 28.1 X 18.7 mm on the Mk III vs. 28.7 X 19.1 mm on the Mk IIn. This is from Canon USA (for the Mk III) and the Canon Camera museum (for the Mk IIn). 36/28.1=1.28 - that's where I got that number from, though I was basing it on the full 36X24 mm film frame size vs. the image size specs from Canon.

I suppose it depends on how you calculate the ratio, though. The 5D's sensor is a bit smaller than 36X24 as well - 35.8 X 23.9 mm. And 35.8/28.1=1.27. Of course, if you're calculating the ratio by area instead of linear dimensions, then you would have to square the multiplier, in which case you'd find that the 5D's sensor has 1.61 times the area of the 1D3.

Math is hard - I'm going shopping! :D

That's what I get for trusting Phil Askey...his quoted specs for the 1D3 is "28.7 x 18.7 mm" and lists the 5D as a full "36 x 24 mm". Phil, you freaking liar!! :-P

My math is fine...my sources are fubar. :rolleyes:

[Tom W]

Ahhh, that's OK. I wasn't intending to turn it into a major quibble anyway - I mean, it's about 16 mpx if Canon decides to base the 5D's sensor on the 1D3. I have no way of knowing if they are actually going to do that, but I would think that it might make sense from a manufacturing efficiency/cost point of view.

BTW, I did go shopping, but just for groceries. I still find time to eat between posts. :)

[I Simonius]

well some things we know for sure is that it will have is:

- Highlight Tone Priority
- Dust removal system

anything else to be added as a for sure???

[EOSAddict]

When did Ken Rockwell decide to buy Canon gear?

Gotta love this quote from that article ;)

but the resolution of my 5D is so high I usually turn it down anyway

[Headcase650]

Take a 40D, give it a 15.8mp full frame sensor and VF, take away the flash, slow it down to 4 frames a second. What do you have?
Ummmmmm..............5D MK II
Ding Ding Ding!!!! We have a winner!!!

[I Simonius]

Take a 40D, give it a 15.8mp full frame sensor and VF, take away the flash, slow it down to 4 frames a second. What do you have?
Ummmmmm..............5D MK II
Ding Ding Ding!!!! We have a winner!!!

Hmm put lik that doesn't sound so great does it?;)

[Headcase650]

Its the truth though, I know we love to dream and fantasize about what it could or should be but we all know what were gonna get.
Take a 30D give it a 12mp full frame and VF, take away the flash and slow it down to 3 frame a second and you have a 5D. Every one should know exactly what to expect from the MK II.

[I Simonius]

Its the truth though, I know we love to dream and fantasize about what it could or should be but we all know what were gonna get.
Take a 30D give it a 12mp full frame and VF, take away the flash and slow it down to 3 frame a second and you have a 5D. Every one should know exactly what to expect from the MK II.

such sober words......:(

[Punisher77]

Take a 40D, give it a 15.8mp full frame sensor and VF, take away the flash, slow it down to 4 frames a second. What do you have?
Ummmmmm..............5D MK II
Ding Ding Ding!!!! We have a winner!!!

Sounds good to me! :) I'd also like a few more cross type AF points to choose from. Maybe 15 instead of 9?

[Headcase650]

Sounds good to me! :) I'd also like a few more cross type AF points to choose from. Maybe 15 instead of 9?

Maybe they will give you the 4 "INVIABLE" focus points around the center that no one has actually ever proven exist. That would boost you to 13 points in theory.

[Yohan Pamudji]

Take a 40D, give it a 15.8mp full frame sensor and VF, take away the flash, slow it down to 4 frames a second. What do you have?
Ummmmmm..............5D MK II
Ding Ding Ding!!!! We have a winner!!!

Sad that this is probably what will happen. Not so sad if it comes out at $2500 though :D

[Tom W]

Hate to give up the 6 hidden "assist" AF points though. I use them regularly when I'm tracking.

Can't say I'd jump at an update without some good ISO-6400 performance either. Maybe even an autofocus scheme that can AF with an f/8 lens.

I do like the 40D features set, though. Lots of positive features there!

[Yohan Pamudji]

Hate to give up the 6 hidden "assist" AF points though. I use them regularly when I'm tracking.

Can't say I'd jump at an update without some good ISO-6400 performance either. Maybe even an autofocus scheme that can AF with an f/8 lens.

I do like the 40D features set, though. Lots of positive features there!

Based on the idea that the 5D sensor was basically a 1DII sensor expanded to fullframe, and continuing that thinking to the 5DII being a 1DIII sensor expanded to fullframe, I'd expect ISO 6400 similar to the 1DIII on the 5DII.

I don't need AF to f/8, but I do need AF points placed better in the frame than the current diamond scheme. It'll be a tough, tough choice for me if the 5DII has basically the 40D feature set + ISO 6400--those 9 AF points are spread out ok on the 40D but not on a fullframe sensor. Putting pro AF into the 5DII (yeah, wishful thinking again I guess) would make the decision a whole lot easier for me.

[I Simonius]

Sounds good to me! :) I'd also like a few more cross type AF points to choose from. Maybe 15 instead of 9?

This is another super important point for me, croos type sensor for the eyes in portrait mode - Im fed up having to focus/recompose!;)

Based on the idea that the 5D sensor was basically a 1DII sensor expanded to fullframe, and continuing that thinking to the 5DII being a 1DIII sensor expanded to fullframe, I'd expect ISO 6400 similar to the 1DIII on the 5DII.

I don't need AF to f/8, but I do need AF points placed better in the frame than the current diamond scheme. It'll be a tough, tough choice for me if the 5DII has basically the 40D feature set + ISO 6400--those 9 AF points are spread out ok on the 40D but not on a fullframe sensor. Putting pro AF into the 5DII (yeah, wishful thinking again I guess) would make the decision a whole lot easier for me.

the most annoying thing for me is the difficulty in focussing on te eyes in portrait with a very wide aperture, , I use the centre point for accuracy but have to recompose i.e. I don't trust the edge of the diamond Af points for hyper critical AF

[Andy_T]

What might really help is that kind of logic that identifies a face when you want to shoot a portrait and focuses on the eyes :p

Or do I get burned at the stake now for this suggestion ?

Best regards,
Andy

[I Simonius]

Based on the idea that the 5D sensor was basically a 1DII sensor expanded to fullframe, and continuing that thinking to the 5DII being a 1DIII sensor expanded to fullframe, I'd expect ISO 6400 similar to the 1DIII on the 5DII.

I don't need AF to f/8, but I do need AF points placed better in the frame than the current diamond scheme. It'll be a tough, tough choice for me if the 5DII has basically the 40D feature set + ISO 6400--those 9 AF points are spread out ok on the 40D but not on a fullframe sensor. Putting pro AF into the 5DII (yeah, wishful thinking again I guess) would make the decision a whole lot easier for me.

What might really help is that kind of logic that identifies a face when you want to shoot a portrait and focuses on the eyes :p

Or do I get burned at the stake now for this suggestion ?

Best regards,
Andy

How would it work though?
It would still be using an edge focussing point

What's needed is a croos type AF point at teedge with extra invisible 'helper points just like the middle has, except I bet just as many people need it for portraits as do tracking birds in flight and sports - so it's high priority IMO;)

[Punisher77]

What might really help is that kind of logic that identifies a face when you want to shoot a portrait and focuses on the eyes :p


They have this already in Digic 3 on the P&S models. It's automatic face detection.

[Yohan Pamudji]

They have this already in Digic 3 on the P&S models. It's automatic face detection.

Ugh! Where's the throw-up smiley when you need it? :D

[Punisher77]

Ugh! Where's the throw-up smiley when you need it? :D

Yeah, that's one feature I DON'T want on the 5Dmk2. ;)

[I Simonius]

JUST realised when the new 5Dmk2 is coming out!

It will be announced as soon as canon have cleared their inventory of 1DsMkII's, they won't want another FF 16MP camera n the market until they've flogged the back log!

Now if only we knew how many were still out there on the shelves...and how fast they're selling now the price has dropped...(counts on fingers..)

[drogos]

it makes sens but i have the fealing we won't see 5D untill spring at least ..they have announced enough camera this year ...they have to leave some for next year

[fi20100]

It might also be that a 5D MkII was already ready, but Canon now has to revamp it. Looking at the AF system N*kon put in their two latest, maybe 5D MkII would need a AF system closer to the 1D?

[Milan]

What about a 5D MKII and a 5Ds MKII just like the 1D bodies. The 5D MKII would compete with the D300 from Nikon (and Kick it’s a..) with a crop sensor. The 5Ds MKII would be the full sensor and in a class of its own. The 40d would beat their D80 and canon would rule because it offers more options for everyone. I feel this middle section is kind of lacking and this would strengthen their positioning.

[I Simonius]

It might also be that a 5D MkII was already ready, but Canon now has to revamp it. Looking at the AF system N*kon put in their two latest, maybe 5D MkII would need a AF system closer to the 1D?

Now that makes sense to me!;):D

[I Simonius]

What about a 5D MKII and a 5Ds MKII just like the 1D bodies. The 5D MKII would compete with the D300 from Nikon (and Kick it’s a..) with a crop sensor. The 5Ds MKII would be the full sensor and in a class of its own. The 40d would beat their D80 and canon would rule because it offers more options for everyone. I feel this middle section is kind of lacking and this would strengthen their positioning.

I doubt that will happen, theres no way they would seel enough of two tpes of a middle range camera (i.e. not flagship);)

[Tom W]

Looking at the AF system N*kon put in their two latest, maybe 5D MkII would need a AF system closer to the 1D?

Well, the way the new AF system is apparently working on some 1D3's, I'd prefer they keep it just like it is. Or maybe, upgrade to something like that of the 40D. I like the "invisible" AF assist points, though.

[I Simonius]

Well, the way the new AF system is apparently working on some 1D3's, I'd prefer they keep it just like it is. Or maybe, upgrade to something like that of the 40D. I like the "invisible" AF assist points, though.

Whilst on the subject of AF assist points what I really want really really want, is a cross type sensor with AF assist point in a position for the eyes in portrait mode;)

[drogos]

40d has that right? ..if yes than 5d will defenetly have that too

[I Simonius]

40d has that right? ..if yes than 5d will defenetly have that too

The 40D has cross type AF sensors at the left or right hand extreme sides (in landscape mode - top or bottom in portrait mode)??? Ididn't know that!:)

[EOSAddict]

From the 40D White Paper..

All 9 points are cross points with the centre also having diagonal sensitivity.

[I Simonius]

From the 40D White Paper..

All 9 points are cross points with the centre also having diagonal sensitivity.

Allrighty! That sounds very promising for the next itteration of the 5D!:D

[I Simonius]

The one other thing I would LOVE is the 1Ds's VF, with its super clear view!:twisted:

Now if they put that in the next 5D it would be seriously cool:cool::D

And while wre at it apparently digic4 is nearly there, but I guess it won't hit the 5D before the 1D series:(

[I Simonius]

Who thinks the 5D is being kept back so the sales of the 1Ds can not get stepped on , annd that the next 5D (or 3D or whatever they call it) will actulaly have 21MP sensor the same as the 1Ds 3??

It's just possible non?;)

[drogos]

Keep on dreaming

[I Simonius]

Keep on dreaming

nothing can stop me;):D


I do really fancy the multi AEB options of the 1Ds' too;)

[Jon_Doh]

Canon needs to desperately upgrade their metering system. Although they've added to the number of grids, the algorithms haven't been upgraded since the early 90's. Meanwhile Nikon has upgraded their Matrix metering to take into account color, distance and now contrast. Canon's system is ancient by comparison.

I would like to see the new 5D get the 16mp sensor from the 1ds, but upgraded with better light gathering microlenses and the 14 bit DIGIC processor. Autofocusing should be upgraded as should the meter. The LCD screen needs to be upgraded to 307,000 pixels if they are going to make it 3 inches and the print button should be changed to mirror lock up. Although the sensor cleaning system doesn't work (just ask the 40D owners) they'll have to include one just to stay competitive. It would also be nice if they would upgrade the highlight tonal system (the one in the 40D sucks) along the lines of Nikon and also give us autofocus adjustment like Nikon.

[I Simonius]

Canon needs to desperately upgrade their metering system. It would also be nice if they would upgrade the highlight tonal system (the one in the 40D sucks) along the lines of Nikon and also give us autofocus adjustment like Nikon.

For someone that hates Canon as much as you, what are you doing on this forum? Shouldn't you be on a noink forum? You could spread your manure there!:D

I think some of those suggestions are bang on - good for Noink for providing the competition!

[lostdoggy]

For someone that hates Canon as much as you, what are you doing on this forum? Shouldn't you be on a noink forum? You could spread your manure there!:D

Thats cause Noink is good in parts and have no complete Camera so therefore Nikonian can only envy Canon owners.

[Sprout Crumble]

Now, now kiddies..no fighting over toys.

I don't agree with the metering comment or the autofocus one. In the real world, Canons metering doesn't lag Nikons and the autofocus certainly doesn't.

The LCD should be in and the Print button should die a death but in general this view that Canon is lagging behind Nikon mystifies me.

[Skip Souza]

Let's not "Run with Scissors" on the playground.

Step back, take a breath, try not to hurt someone.

[I Simonius]

£135 cash back, hmm not much in itself but it portends good, it augers well doth it not for a spring revival, an upgrade , a new model?

methinks the:
"
Live View
Dust Reduction Sensor
DIGIC III
3? LCD (the 5D has a 2.5? LCD)
I expect to see these features as a gimme and maybe a 2MP or so boost, up to 14-15MP. I imagine that there would be a few other tweaks along the way; however, I don’t really expect the current “form” to change a great deal. It’s most likely to be an evolution of the current generation 5D (e.g., 30D to 40D)."

..proejection is probably realistic

but wouldn't it be nice if the tweaks were what brought it above not only te competition , but our expectations?

i.e. weatherproofing, extra registerable functions, mirror lock up button,
mirror lock up WITH AEB at one touch

---------
I don't agree with this tough...

from
"http://athos99.romandie.com/post/1656/37362

about the next 5D in french

it says that two versions of the 5D will be available for PMA 2007
- 5Dmk1, the same as the one now, plus a self cleaning sensor system, and cheaper.
- 5Ds with 16MP, and 5fps."

nah..;)

[Balliolman]

Here are the glasses:

http://terraweb.wr.usgs.gov/TRS/kids/glasses.GIF

:lol: :lol:

:D Free with every camera, I hope! Though red/cyan would be better. :lol::lol:

[rang]

My colleague just showed me a Canadian Coupon for the 5D kit and a slew of glass and grips and flashes (ring and shoe mount).

Supposedly this coupon will be applied to the US in the next couple of weeks.

Which leads me to believe even more so that the replacement/upgrade to the 5D will be announced at PMA in Feb 2008.

[rang]

My colleague just showed me a Canadian Coupon for the 5D kit and a slew of glass and grips and flashes (ring and shoe mount).

Supposedly this coupon will be applied to the US in the next couple of weeks.

Which leads me to believe even more so that the replacement/upgrade to the 5D will be announced at PMA in Feb 2008.


Here is the link:

http://www.paxtonprints.com/extras/canon_double_rebate_2007.pdf (http://www.paxtonprints.com/extras/canon_double_rebate_2007.pdf)

[I Simonius]

Here is the link:

http://www.paxtonprints.com/extras/canon_double_rebate_2007.pdf (http://www.paxtonprints.com/extras/canon_double_rebate_2007.pdf)

I think we must be on for PMA - hurrah!

Now then it has come to my attention ( beause it is driving me crackers and all of my alter egos and spilt personalities have reported this) that there is an even more pressing issue that needs resolving with the 5D's replacement, namely:

the ON/OFF switch - It drives me crackers that this turns itself on an off by turns while I am walking with the camera - if I set it to 'off' it will turn 'on' and if I set it to 'on' it will turn 'off'

Consequestntly when I think the camera is ready for a quick shot - it isn't and when I think it is off ot preserve battery - it isn't

This happens because the camera rubs againt my body as I walk and the switch is so placed that it can be so easily reset by the smallest rubbing or pressure on clothing

There is the same problem with the eyepiece diopter adjustment, it has changed everytime I get the camera back out of the bag, either my hand touches it inadvertantly or someting in the bag rubs against it.

Please someone tell Chuck about this! ( I have no idea how to)

[narlus]

Here is the link:

http://www.paxtonprints.com/extras/canon_double_rebate_2007.pdf (http://www.paxtonprints.com/extras/canon_double_rebate_2007.pdf)


nice...$700 off a body...this changes my mind about renting one now, i think. now the only decision i need to make is either to get the 16-35 or 24-70

[lostdoggy]

nice...$700 off a body...this changes my mind about renting one now, i think. now the only decision i need to make is either to get the 16-35 or 24-70

Hope you know someone in Canada!!!

[narlus]

yeah, i figured it out.

still, why would they skip over the US? i;m thinking that this is gonna happen. maybe it's overly optimistic.


but getting a 5D w/ $700 off a near 2K retail price, and selling it when the new one comes out....i see that as a viable plan, esp when the rental charge for these bodies is pretty damned high and i could use it right now.

[Nortelbert]

still, why would they skip over the US? .

'probably because of the price differnece between the Aemrican and Canadian markets is on the order of 30-40% but our dollar has jumped from the low 80 cent range to over parity in the last year and a bit. This way Canucks don't have to go shopping to the States.

[xiskool]

still, why would they skip over the US?

I think it is too early to say we are being skipped over.. The past Fall rebates in the US started on Oct. 15th, so why would this year be any different? We should know on Monday, I suppose.

[Rubi Jane]

'probably because of the price differnece between the Aemrican and Canadian markets is on the order of 30-40% but our dollar has jumped from the low 80 cent range to over parity in the last year and a bit. This way Canucks don't have to go shopping to the States.
Another thought why the rebate might be Canadian only is that there has been newsworthy stories of how Canadians consumers have been ripped off by manufacturers for years, with retailing identical goods in Canada at much more than the currency exchange attributes. So much news in fact that there's class action lawsuits being filed against the big 3 auto manufacturers for charging over-inflated prices to Canadians. This isn't going unrecognized in other industries where Canadian consumers are paying upwards of 20% premium to US prices.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070919/consumer_dollar_070919/20070919/

It could be that Canon is cognizant of this and is trying to level the playing field for us Canucks, at least temporarily until the dollar settles and industries watch the current fight with the auto makers. Then again they could be starting the Canadian rebate program a month before the US since our Thanksgiving comes a month earlier than in the US ;)

[wernersl]

i hate to be the pisser on the party, but lets recall last year. same rumors and similar rebates, but no new 5. i would love nothing more than a refresh to this camera, just dont want to get my hopes up too high. just food for thought.
FWIW: Bring on the 3D!

[Yohan Pamudji]

Well last year it would've been about 18 months old if the Spring 2007 rumors for a replacement were true. Now we'll be at 2 1/2 years in Spring 2008! I have a feeling that Canon would've released the 5D replacement in September 2007 alongside the 40D if not for the 1DsIII needing some breathing room and some alone-time as the high-res solution. The 5DII at 15-16MP will make a lot of people who just need the resolution and not the other features think twice about it vs. the 1DsIII.

[wernersl]

yeah that makes sense. i almost dont know if i would want the extra resolution! my computer is choking as it is with 12.8MP! only thing i really want in a new 5 is a more advanced af system and possibly higher frame rate with the digic 3. well see what happens!

[Yohan Pamudji]

You and me both. I'd rather have a 5DII at 5D resolution, but with the microlens and processing advancements of the 1DIII to give it an even cleaner ISO 1600 and above than a 1DIII. 15-16MP is really overkill for my use (still rocking the 8MP 1DII and 20D), and coupled with 14-bit RAW those files will probably be almost 3 times as large as what I deal with now!

5DII with 12MP, super-clean high ISO, 5fps, pro AF, and 100% viewfinder would just about do it for me. Too bad Canon will probably go the other way--increase resolution and not bring other features up to pro level.

[wernersl]

i hear ya. maybe we can send a request list to Canon and have them build a couple just for us. ;) anyone else on board?

[AviP]

2 1/2 years into the current model of which I've wasted the last year by waiting. But now my dilemna is whether to wait for a $3500 5D Mk II or buy the $1700 (with rebates) 5D Mk I. Decisions!!!

[AviP]

5DII with 12MP, super-clean high ISO, 5fps, pro AF, and 100% viewfinder would just about do it for me. Too bad Canon will probably go the other way--increase resolution and not bring other features up to pro level.
That's because they already have the pro-level and adding that to the 5D would probably be a mistake to their bottomline. I hope I'm wrong.

[wernersl]

2 1/2 years into the current model of which I've wasted the last year by waiting. But now my dilemna is whether to wait for a $3500 5D Mk II or buy the $1700 (with rebates) 5D Mk I. Decisions!!!
go for 5d. you wont be dissapointed.

[wernersl]

That's because they already have the pro-level and adding that to the 5D would probably be a mistake to their bottomline. I hope I'm wrong.
nah. dont think that would take anything away from the current 1d/ds. im not askin for a 1d in a 5d suit. i want to keep the rez the same...just add some features, like better af/frame rate and digic3. they already did that to the 40d(relatively speaking).

[Dragos Jianu]

1) D30 was the first "affordable APSC DSLR". The 5D is the first "affordable FF DSLR". Both came out at roughly the same price tag. The D60 was significantly cheaper then the D30. Canon has significantly dropped the price of the 5D. Add the extreme pressure from Nikon and my bet would be that the 5D2 will come out at roughly 2200$.
2)The 5D shared the same sensor production line with the 1D2N. 5D2 will probably share the same production line with the 1D3, thus the same pixel size. I should be around 15MP
3) It MIGHT feature then new VGA Sony LCDs that nikon is using.
4) It will NOT be weather-sealed :(
5) It will have a few more AF points then the 40D and probably a few firmware features enabled compared to the 40D (such as AF microadjustment) and ISO6400

That's as far as logic can take us. Beyond that my crystal ball gets fuzzy.

[I Simonius]

1)
4) It will NOT be weather-sealed :(
.

I agree with yu on those points but hope it has more refinements here and there than the 40D;)

[Dragos Jianu]

Canon will probably want to lower the price in order to remain competitive against a very fierce Nikon attack. Right now , given their corporate psychology (the big flaw being that the 1D team is not the same as the rest, thus creating internal competition - so what if the 5D2 is close tot the 8000E 1Ds3 ? for every 1Ds3 Canon sells they will sell at least 5 5D2, like the 5D sold compared to the 1Ds2) Canon will suffer internal wars, and will not accept things such as a 45AF point on anything lower then a 1D, even if i wouldn't add much to the cost, just like they crippled the 40D firmware out of features, so they will be forced to cut prices. Thus reduce the feature upgrade.

[tuan209]

I honestly think the new 5D will start at 2500 or below. There wasnt a huge market for the 5D at 3200 when it debated a few years ago, so I cant imagine that there will be a market it for it now at 3200. Unless Canon dumps a slew of new technology in it, the price that it well debate for will be close to or cheaper than the current 5D.

[gpx4]

I just hope that it will have everything that D3 has plus a little more.

[wernersl]

i want it to fly me to the moon.