NEW 5D RUMOUR !!

[Meaty0]

Damn! I just dropped my popcorn.

[herbe_nelson]

lol :)

[lowcrust]

Where can I find info on he 800 5.6?

[herbe_nelson]

press release on canon USA website

there is also info on 200mm f2L

Nelson

[blighty]

So basically, after all this time, Canon have given us a 350D with a Sport Pack. I need full-frame, and I've wasted enough time waiting for a realistically priced one from Canon (I can afford to walk out and buy a 1DsMk3 right now, its just too damn much money for a camera, I'm not a Pro).
I'm not buying a 4-year-old model 5D. I wasn't going to buy any new one today, so Canon have got maybe a week, after that I'll be looking at the Nikon alternatives. If a new 5D was coming out, they could probably hold on to a few customers by leaking that it was coming out (I'd rather not learn Nikon's menu system) but it would probably be lost amongst the cacaphony of speculation on boards like this.

To be absolutely honest I don't believe that Canon could realistically expect to compete with no new entry-level zero-crop for four years so I'd expect something this year, I just can't wait any longer, I'm starting to forget how to do stuff and I've got a to-do list of shoots and locations as long as my arm.

[herbe_nelson]

2.5yrs old, but still far too old!

Really wanted something new apart from a XXXD camera or P&S models this week. :(

Tomorrow maybe?

Nelson

[gpx4]

That's all folks!

450D is all they got for PMA.
Better luck next time.

[blighty]

Not likely, just lucky Nikon this time.

[lowcrust]

press release on canon USA website

there is also info on 200mm f2L

Nelson

Oh, I thought they had some sort of updated info as you guys brought it up today.

[herbe_nelson]

yeh they do. In the release today it states the physical size and weight of the lenses as well as the MSRP and the release date on the lenses. That is the new info.

Nelson

[bbbig]

Now all we need is Nikon's answer to 5D, for $3k - game over for Canon I guess.

[cosworth]

$6000 for the 200 I read.

[wernersl]

$6000 for the 200 I read.
bit much if you asked me. hell...the 1.8 wasnt even that much.

[lowcrust]

yeh they do. In the release today it states the physical size and weight of the lenses as well as the MSRP and the release date on the lenses. That is the new info.

Nelson

OK, now I see it. Here we go;
http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20080123_eflens.html

[lowcrust]

bit much if you asked me. hell...the 1.8 wasnt even that much.

IS and weather resistance comes at cost greater than the .2 aperature savings it seems!

[cosworth]

Don't forget MSRP and what it sells for are quite different. We'll see high demand on this lens initially, then a nice rebate. The 300 2.8 will still have the price advantage for some time.

Actual price you'll pay is still unknown. I predicted $3995 long ago.

[bsmotril]

firstly i'm not bashing nikon in anyway! The D300 and D3 are superb cameras and create great competition. We were debating about this is another thread and Nikon designs the D3 sensor but does not make it!

Sony makes the sensor.

That is not uncommon at all in the electronics business. It takes a huge capital investment to build a wafer fab facility to manufacture chips. Here in Austin, there are several such fab plants, and about 40% of their production capacity is for chips that are not their own designs.

[Punisher77]

Well, that does it. I just bought a 5D+grip to take advantage of the double rebate ($740) currently available in Canada.

[narlus]

Well, that does it. I just bought a 5D+grip to take advantage of the double rebate ($740) currently available in Canada.


<shakes fist at canadian rebates>

[xiskool]

Did anyone else look at the picture (http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/images/hiRes/20080123_hiRes_xsi_back.jpg) of the new camera announced today? Looks like the printer button is multi-function on that body. Could this be a sign of things to come?? : )

[wernersl]

you know...the old (suspected) fake 5D II pic that was floating around looks somewhat similar in layout as the newly anounced 450d.
http://bp3.blogger.com/_WVBmLmn9XpM/Ro7tvGcncPI/AAAAAAAAAEc/OsKegwgDcRs/s1600-h/5D-Mk2-back.jpg

[John_TX]

you know...the old (suspected) fake 5D II pic that was floating around looks somewhat similar in layout as the newly anounced 450d.
http://bp3.blogger.com/_WVBmLmn9XpM/Ro7tvGcncPI/AAAAAAAAAEc/OsKegwgDcRs/s1600-h/5D-Mk2-back.jpg


If that is indeed a 5D II, it probably doesn't have live view since it's missing the LCD face detection feature that turns it off when you bring it up to your eye.

[SunTsu]

2.5yrs old, but still far too old!

Really wanted something new apart from a XXXD camera or P&S models this week. :(

Tomorrow maybe?

Nelson
I just checked the Canon Museum and the 1Ds Mark II came out in November 2004, so it was replaced about three years later. The Museum says the 5D was announced in October 2005 so that makes that body almost a year newer. Somehow I thought the 5D was older - does anyone remember for sure when the above bodies hit the streets? If the 5D really is one year "newer" then maybe Canon marketing feels the 5D series should follow a longer life cycle like their pro 1D bodies.

That's all folks!

450D is all they got for PMA.
Better luck next time.
Is there any chance it will still be announced before the end of PMA? Does anyone have any recollection of when Canon has done their announcements in conjunction with PMA?

Well, that does it. I just bought a 5D+grip to take advantage of the double rebate ($740) currently available in Canada.
Do you mind me asking where you bought yours from and what you paid? I want a second body and might have to get another 5D. I would have gotten the 1D, but the AF issues still scare me.

[maxpower2078]

I just checked the Canon Museum and the 1Ds Mark II came out in November 2004, so it was replaced about three years later. The Museum says the 5D was announced in October 2005 so that makes that body almost a year newer. Somehow I thought the 5D was older - does anyone remember for sure when the above bodies hit the streets? If the 5D really is one year "newer" then maybe Canon marketing feels the 5D series should follow a longer life cycle like their pro 1D bodies.




I would think the sales (popularity) would go 1d/1ds, 5d, 40d, rebel or the respective model at any given moment. With this in mind I would think they would have an appropriate lifecycle to following this.

300d Announced 20-Aug-03 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0308/03082005canoneos300d.asp)
350d Announced 17-Feb-05 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05021704canon_eos350d.asp)
400d Announced 24-Aug-06 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06082416canoneos400drebelxti.asp)
450d Announced 24-Jan-08
18 month lifecycle

D30 Announced 17-May-00 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0005/00051709canoneosd30.asp)
D60 Announced 22-Feb-02 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02022207canoneosd60.asp)
10D Announced 27-Feb-03 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0302/03022710canoneos10d.asp)
20D Announced 19-Aug-04 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0408/04081909canon_eos20d.asp)
20Da Announced 01-Jun-05 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0506/05060101canon20da.asp)
30D Announced 21-Feb-06 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022114canoneos30d.asp)
40D Announced 20-Aug-07 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082010canoneos40d.asp)

12 - 18 month lifecycle

1D Announced 25-Sep-01 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0109/01092502canoneos1d.asp)
1Dii Announced 29-Jan-04 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012904canoneos1dmkii.asp)
1DiiN Announced 22-Aug-05 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0508/05082208canoneos1dmkiin.asp)
1Diii Announced 22-Feb-07 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022208canoneos1dmarkiii.asp)

18 month lifecycle

1Ds Announced 24-Sep-02 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0209/02092404canoneos1ds.asp)
1Dsii Announced 21-Sep-04 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04092104canoneos1dsmkii.asp)
1Dsiii Announced 20-Aug-07 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082009canoneos1dsmarkiii.asp)

2 - 3 year lifecycle

From this comparison the bread and butter are in the XXD series, but I know they sell more rebels which cycle a lot. The point is that the upper range 1 series don't cycle as often as it is only 5% of their sales at least the 1ds that is, but man 2.5 years and counting on the lifecycle of the 5d. There are plenty of people out there ready for the new one.

[I Simonius]

There is no leak from Canon because there is nothing exciting enough to leak.
It will take them another year to just catch up with Nikon.
:cry:


Hmmm. Methinks I shall have to actually GO to PMA next year ('09). They even have a monorail...woohoo! Maybe the 5D MkII will actually be released by then.
:cry:

I'm actually starting to think that Nikon's D3 and D300 actually made the Canon R&D people get back to the drawing board...
:cry:

Sorry Canon, next thursday I'll place my order for a D3.
The best Canon is called Nikon.

Silly billy:rolleyes:

That's all folks!

450D is all they got for PMA.
Better luck next time.
:cry:

$6000 for the 200 I read.

yowch!:eek:

The point is that the upper range 1 series don't cycle as often as it is only 5% of their sales at least the 1ds that is, but man 2.5 years and counting on the lifecycle of the 5d. There are plenty of people out there ready for the new one.

I'm depressed:~(

[VTSHEP1]

I would think the sales (popularity) would go 1d/1ds, 5d, 40d, rebel or the respective model at any given moment. With this in mind I would think they would have an appropriate lifecycle to following this.

............................

From this comparison the bread and butter are in the XXD series, but I know they sell more rebels which cycle a lot. The point is that the upper range 1 series don't cycle as often as it is only 5% of their sales at least the 1ds that is, but man 2.5 years and counting on the lifecycle of the 5d. There are plenty of people out there ready for the new one.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/scsheppa/Canon.xls

"Launch date" is really the announcement date, put together in my spare time over the last year so i dont swear by any of the facts....Enjoy analyzing....

[maxpower2078]

Just an FYI, but is seems like this has been talked about before, oh... say less than 6 months ago.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=366836&page=5

[JohnnyG]

According to Dpreview, the 5D was announced 08/22/2005 and they're usually pretty accurate.

[Meaty0]

:cry::cry:I'm depressed:~(

Yes my little gnome-like friend. I think the end of this thread is near....at least until then end of the year:cry::evil:

[maxpower2078]

According to Dpreview, the 5D was announced 08/22/2005 and they're usually pretty accurate.

Yep, that's why we are all saying it is about 30 months old, or 2 1/2 years old. I use this for referencing:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/

It has them listed in order they were announced.

[Punisher77]

I'm depressed:~(

You know what cheered me up? Ordering a 5D! :D

[Yohan Pamudji]

Canon's put me in a tight spot (yes, I know Canon hasn't gone out and done this out of spite to me personally :)). I was hoping to move from my 1DII bodies to detachable grip bodies with somewhat comparable features (AF closer to 1-series than 40D, 100% viewfinder, weather sealing, 5-6 fps, detachable grip--you know, a D300 with a much better sensor), but Canon's lost at sea with the 5D replacement. Pure speculation, but I really do think they had something ready to go before they saw the Nikon D3 and D300 (probably a 40D feature-set with lower fps and a fullframe sensor), and decided to go back to the drawing board. In the long run that's much better IMO than putting out a 40D with fullframe, but every day they delay is another day my cameras lose more resale value.

[macroshooter1970]

Canon's put me in a tight spot (yes, I know Canon hasn't gone out and done this out of spite to me personally :)). I was hoping to move from my 1DII bodies to detachable grip bodies with somewhat comparable features (AF closer to 1-series than 40D, 100% viewfinder, weather sealing, 5-6 fps, detachable grip--you know, a D300 with a much better sensor), but Canon's lost at sea with the 5D replacement. Pure speculation, but I really do think they had something ready to go before they saw the Nikon D3 and D300 (probably a 40D feature-set with lower fps and a fullframe sensor), and decided to go back to the drawing board. In the long run that's much better IMO than putting out a 40D with fullframe, but every day they delay is another day my cameras lose more resale value.


resale value. why treat it like a car?

[Yohan Pamudji]

resale value. why treat it like a car?

Because as much as I'd love to live with no regard to budget, bottom line, etc., unfortunately I don't have the means to live such a life.

[Radtech1]

Well, I for one, am a little relieved that there is no 5d replacement out at this time. I have been looking at the iPF6100 printer, and now I don't feel too bad about parting with $2,500 to get it.

Now that I think about it, I gave little thought to the (at the time) $3,200 for the 5d body only, then why have I been agonizing over spending somewhat less than that on a printer. I mean, if the image capture is worth $3,200 shouldn't image production be worth something similar?

My 02¢

Rad

[I Simonius]

Yes my little gnome-like friend. I think the end of this thread is near....at least until then end of the year:cry::evil:

As I predicted waaaay back - no 5Dmk2 til Sept earliest - bwaaagh! Sob,

You know what cheered me up? Ordering a 5D! :D

we should get another one?.. ummm... nah;-)

Pure speculation, but I really do think they had something ready to go before they saw the Nikon D3 and D300 (probably a 40D feature-set with lower fps and a fullframe sensor), and decided to go back to the drawing board. In the long run that's much better IMO than putting out a 40D with fullframe, but every day they delay is another day my cameras lose more resale value.

sounds likely to me;-)

Well, I for one, am a little relieved that there is no 5d replacement out at this time. I have been looking at the iPF6100 printer, and now I don't feel too bad about parting with $2,500 to get it.

Now that I think about it, I gave little thought to the (at the time) $3,200 for the 5d body only, then why have I been agonizing over spending somewhat less than that on a printer. I mean, if the image capture is worth $3,200 shouldn't image production be worth something similar?

My 02¢

Rad

makes sense to me:D

[wernersl]

im more concerned with getting the shot with a camera i love (which is why we all bought into the 5D in the first place) than resale value. im quite sure i will have this camera until it decomposes. 5d replacement? im interested in seeing it, but have no intentions of replacing my 5 to get it. everyday about 10-15 new posts pop up of people agonizing over this release. a lot of people have even sold their cameras in anticipation. to me that is a little silly; to sell the 5D, live with your inferior 20, 30, or 40D and await its RUMORED replacement? i dont get it. maybe someone can fill me in. just for this logic, i hope (if there comes a replacement) that it flops! well, not really, but would serve some people right. anyone in agreement or am i the only a-hole out here?

[tonydee]

Now that I think about it, I gave little thought to the (at the time) $3,200 for the 5d body only, then why have I been agonizing over spending somewhat less than that on a printer. I mean, if the image capture is worth $3,200 shouldn't image production be worth something similar?

Make up your own mind, but you might want to google for Ken Rockwell's ideas on home printers vs using labs. His arguments re home printing being second rate and a false economy sound pretty convincing to me, though dependent on the vendors in the country you're in.

Cheers,

Tony

[I Simonius]

im more concerned with getting the shot with a camera i love (which is why we all bought into the 5D in the first place) than resale value. im quite sure i will have this camera until it decomposes. 5d replacement? im interested in seeing it, but have no intentions of replacing my 5 to get it. everyday about 10-15 new posts pop up of people agonizing over this release. a lot of people have even sold their cameras in anticipation. to me that is a little silly; to sell the 5D, live with your inferior 20, 30, or 40D and await its RUMORED replacement? i dont get it. maybe someone can fill me in. just for this logic, i hope (if there comes a replacement) that it flops! well, not really, but would serve some people right. anyone in agreement or am i the only a-hole out here?

Oi in't selling me old'un ahm 'anging onterit inni?:p

[wernersl]

say what?

[Radtech1]

Make up your own mind, but you might want to google for Ken Rockwell's ideas on home printers vs using labs. His arguments re home printing being second rate and a false economy sound pretty convincing to me, though dependent on the vendors in the country you're in.

Cheers,

Tony

Tony,

Sounds interesting and I havn't pulled the trigger yet. Do you have a URL?

Rad

[tonydee]

Sounds interesting and I havn't pulled the trigger yet. Do you have a URL?

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/printers.htm

Cheers,

Tony

[Yohan Pamudji]

im more concerned with getting the shot with a camera i love (which is why we all bought into the 5D in the first place) than resale value. im quite sure i will have this camera until it decomposes. 5d replacement? im interested in seeing it, but have no intentions of replacing my 5 to get it. everyday about 10-15 new posts pop up of people agonizing over this release. a lot of people have even sold their cameras in anticipation. to me that is a little silly; to sell the 5D, live with your inferior 20, 30, or 40D and await its RUMORED replacement? i dont get it. maybe someone can fill me in. just for this logic, i hope (if there comes a replacement) that it flops! well, not really, but would serve some people right. anyone in agreement or am i the only a-hole out here?

No, I think you definitely have a point. Downgrading temporarily while waiting for a camera that may or may not come out soon if ever is a silly move IMO. That's why I haven't sold my 1DII bodies and gone to a couple of digital rebels or something while waiting for the mythical 5DII. It'd be a bit different if there were some official announcement of an impending release, but for all we know Canon might scrap the 5D line altogether. I wish camera companies would take a page from CPU companies like Intel and AMD, and provide a clear road map with release dates and specs for upcoming releases. This uncertainty doesn't help anybody.

[Yohan Pamudji]

Oi in't selling me old'un ahm 'anging onterit inni?:p

That's the best written accent I've seen in a while, except that "selling" and "'anging" should be "sellin'" and 'angin'" :D

[Nortelbert]

Oi in't selling me old'un ahm 'anging onterit inni?:psay what?

"I am not selling my old one, I'm hanging on to it, aren't I?"

[I Simonius]

and await its RUMORED replacement? i dont get it. maybe someone can fill me in. just for this logic, i hope (if there comes a replacement) that it flops! well, not really, but would serve some people right. anyone in agreement or am i the only a-hole out here?

let's have a poll;)

say what?

see below..:D

"I am not selling my old one, I'm hanging on to it, aren't I?"

correctamundo!:D

That's the best written accent I've seen in a while, except that "selling" and "'anging" should be "sellin'" and 'angin'" :D

asa cross btween Lundan an Narfuk oi spuz, soats ard ter know iffn ass the roight spellin or not, as oi carnt spell anyway, at dunt make a lotter diffrence doit? an at don't matters neither way doit?

Haya seen mie new moata? As everso good at is. As diesowl but at dunt make a whole lotta noise at dunt not loike the oldun's. Dyou spuz ey cud make a camra wots got like a diesl moata so yer dunt need battries? Atatad be roi good twunni?

[bbbig]

In light of what's (not) been happening with 5DMk2, I'm tempted to

1) bite the bullet and get the ultimate full-frame dSLR, 1DsMk3, or
2) might as well switch over to Nikon and get D3. I'd figure I'll lose about $1000 in the process of selling off most off my Canon lens and flashes; still cheaper than the difference between 1DsMk3 and D3.

I think I can get either 1DsMk3 or D3 and be "done" with it for next 5yrs, without whining about wanting to get a nicer camera... Is this just a crazy talk, or anyone else thinking the same?!

[I Simonius]

I think I can get either 1DsMk3 or D3 and be "done" with it for next 5yrs, without whining about wanting to get a nicer camera... Is this just a crazy talk, or anyone else thinking the same?!

it is crazy talk but you're not the only one thinking it!

Lets all just get 1DsMk3s! :D
It's obviously what Canon is pushing us toward!;)

[VTSHEP1]

In light of what's (not) been happening with 5DMk2, I'm tempted to

1) bite the bullet and get the ultimate full-frame dSLR, 1DsMk3, or
2) might as well switch over to Nikon and get D3. I'd figure I'll lose about $1000 in the process of selling off most off my Canon lens and flashes; still cheaper than the difference between 1DsMk3 and D3.

I think I can get either 1DsMk3 or D3 and be "done" with it for next 5yrs, without whining about wanting to get a nicer camera... Is this just a crazy talk, or anyone else thinking the same?!

Your not the only one thinking along those lines. But there are probably less that can afford to actually carry through with it.

[chauncey]

Read your link TonyDee and I would go farther. If I want images on my wall, I'm getting a good monitor and just running slide shows. A lot of what we do, HDR, is unprintable anyway, but it's great eye candy.

[Punisher77]

A lot of what we do, HDR, is unprintable anyway, but it's great eye candy.

How is HDR unprintable? You're tone mapping down to an 8-bit image and that's easily printable.

[chauncey]

I can tell the difference on my monitor.

[David Nicole]

Beside the fact Canon has to keep close to D300 with something competitive, and yes at this price point 5D has its own placebo, we have to keep in mind that a 5D replacement would affect in some way 1Ds sales. So looking at the 1DsII/5D release time differences(sept.2004 vs aug.2005) you can figure it out when it will be available the next 5DII, right about 23.09.2008.
For this year I'll sell all Canon bodies and accesories (2x 5Ds, ...) keep lenses and bring daddy D3 with 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200. In autumn if is something well to mention (AF) I'll keep both systems.
Ridiculous is that Canon has a lot better primes but no AF for those on bodies under 3-4K. Stupid is Nikon has a blistering AF but no primes as L designation.

[MrChad]

Beside the fact Canon has to keep close to D300 with something competitive, and yes at this price point 5D has its own placebo, we have to keep in mind that a 5D replacement would affect in some way 1Ds sales. So looking at the 1DsII/5D release time differences(sept.2004 vs aug.2005) you can figure it out when it will be available the next 5DII, right about 23.09.2008.
For this year I'll sell all Canon bodies and accesories (2x 5Ds, ...) keep lenses and bring daddy D3 with 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200. In autumn if is something well to mention (AF) I'll keep both systems.
Ridiculous is that Canon has a lot better primes but no AF for those on bodies under 3-4K. Stupid is Nikon has a blistering AF but no primes as L designation.

Confused here?

1)I know of several wedding pros shooting 5D's with all L primes.
2)I doubt the price of a pro-body is a hurdle to anyone with several L primes.
3)Why don't these primes work on the smaller bodies? I've never had trouble with the few I used.

[MrChad]

Beside the fact Canon has to keep close to D300 with something competitive, and yes at this price point 5D has its own placebo, we have to keep in mind that a 5D replacement would affect in some way 1Ds sales. So looking at the 1DsII/5D release time differences(sept.2004 vs aug.2005) you can figure it out when it will be available the next 5DII, right about 23.09.2008.
For this year I'll sell all Canon bodies and accesories (2x 5Ds, ...) keep lenses and bring daddy D3 with 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200. In autumn if is something well to mention (AF) I'll keep both systems.
Ridiculous is that Canon has a lot better primes but no AF for those on bodies under 3-4K. Stupid is Nikon has a blistering AF but no primes as L designation.

Confused here?

1)I know of several wedding pros shooting 5D's with all L primes.
2)I doubt the price of a pro-body is a hurdle to anyone with several L primes.
3)Why don't these primes work on the smaller bodies? I've never had trouble with the few I used.

[David Nicole]

1) The AF is not that awsome in dark and with normal grade primes like 50/1.8 and 85/1.8 its focus is back and forth. you have to take 3-5 images just to have one or two. It's frustrating each time.
2) Given the cycle of a body I do not tend to invest to much in those as their price drops quicker then the lens's.
3) Try a 50 or 85 or 135 on a 30D and you'll see. And it is not only me, tested on other bodies (not 1D).
5K is the most I would pay on a FF pro body. And this is a lot. With 2-3K you can buy more optics.

[MrChad]

1) The AF is not that awsome in dark and with normal grade primes like 50/1.8 and 85/1.8 its focus is back and forth. you have to take 3-5 images just to have one or two. It's frustrating each time.
2) Given the cycle of a body I do not tend to invest to much in those as their price drops quicker then the lens's.
3) Try a 50 or 85 or 135 on a 30D and you'll see. And it is not only me, tested on other bodies (not 1D).
5K is the most I would pay on a FF pro body. And this is a lot. With 2-3K you can buy more optics.

I've used both the older 50mm/1.8 and 50/1.4 without issue on my 30D and a D30. Still using a 100mm Macro on my 30D and 40D. Never had an issue. I used my 50/1.8 almost exclusively in shooting downtown Chicago at night on the streets.

[Yohan Pamudji]

1) The AF is not that awsome in dark and with normal grade primes like 50/1.8 and 85/1.8 its focus is back and forth. you have to take 3-5 images just to have one or two. It's frustrating each time.
2) Given the cycle of a body I do not tend to invest to much in those as their price drops quicker then the lens's.
3) Try a 50 or 85 or 135 on a 30D and you'll see. And it is not only me, tested on other bodies (not 1D).
5K is the most I would pay on a FF pro body. And this is a lot. With 2-3K you can buy more optics.

I'm right there with you, except I'm more of a cheapskate with the upper range I'd pay for a FF pro body. Nikon has the pro feature-set I want in an $1800 camera, and Canon has FF in a $2200 camera. Surely Canon could do a FF pro camera for $4000 and still make a tidy profit. It might not make business sense with how close that might be feature-wise to a 1DsIII, but cost vs. profit-wise it seems feasible to me.

Pro feature set, resolution and fps between 1DIII and 1DsIII, detachable grip for $4000 or less and I'm there (and would probably stay there until the camera dies). It's probably just dreaming considering Canon's current lineup, but comparing the features and pricing to what else it's out there I don't think cost is any kind of obstacle for this to happen.

[MrChad]

I'm right there with you, except I'm more of a cheapskate with the upper range I'd pay for a FF pro body. Nikon has the pro feature-set I want in an $1800 camera, and Canon has FF in a $2200 camera. Surely Canon could do a FF pro camera for $4000 and still make a tidy profit. It might not make business sense with how close that might be feature-wise to a 1DsIII, but cost vs. profit-wise it seems feasible to me.

Pro feature set, resolution and fps between 1DIII and 1DsIII, detachable grip for $4000 or less and I'm there (and would probably stay there until the camera dies). It's probably just dreaming considering Canon's current lineup, but comparing the features and pricing to what else it's out there I don't think cost is any kind of obstacle for this to happen.

$2200 was at one point the price of a new Eos D30 or D60 crop body. Might I ask what you are shooting now? Assuming you are shooting a faster crop body now, why not take a stab at the 5D for $2200? If you are willing to pay $4000 for a baby 1D, that's almost what the 5D is. The resolution far exceeds what everyone thinks, the files are very large and clean. Better then anything I ever shot on film in the old days.

[PhilN]

As I predicted waaaay back - no 5Dmk2 til Sept earliest - bwaaagh! Sob,



we should get another one?.. ummm... nah;-)



sounds likely to me;-)



makes sense to me:D

me thinks Canon may have had a replacement ready to rock and then nikon released the d3......the frase blowing them outta the water springs to mind. To me Canon are now lagging behind, the features quality and build on the d3 must have sent shokwaves around canon..........and has anyone actually looked at noise levels at high iso? I saw some recently at 6400....looked like 5d 800iso! So maybe the next gen nikon are gonna lay to rest the jokes about how can you tell when a nikon shooter is coming (the noise)...canon get a grip and get back on top or lose customers............yes i am thinking how much it will cost me to replace the lot.

[I Simonius]

me thinks Canon may have had a replacement ready to rock and then nikon released the d3......the frase blowing them outta the water springs to mind. To me Canon are now lagging behind, the features quality and build on the d3 must have sent shokwaves around canon..........and has anyone actually looked at noise levels at high iso? I saw some recently at 6400....looked like 5d 800iso! So maybe the next gen nikon are gonna lay to rest the jokes about how can you tell when a nikon shooter is coming (the noise)...canon get a grip and get back on top or lose customers............yes i am thinking how much it will cost me to replace the lot.

I think that is the opinion most of us have come to - that there was a5D 2 waiting in the wings but they have had to revise thier plans after the D3

However there seems to be some disagreement over whether the D£ noise levels are really that good

No matter if it means Canon has had to up their game all to the good!

Presumably theyy have a 12.8 MP 50D waiting in the wings too, I suspect that's be announced at the same time as the 5D2 i.e. Sept at the earliest

[MrChad]

I think that is the opinion most of us have come to - that there was a5D 2 waiting in the wings but they have had to revise thier plans after the D3

However there seems to be some disagreement over whether the D£ noise levels are really that good

No matter if it means Canon has had to up their game all to the good!

Presumably theyy have a 12.8 MP 50D waiting in the wings too, I suspect that's be announced at the same time as the 5D2 i.e. Sept at the earliest

Sept is way to early for the 40D, the 30D even kept a full 18mo. cycle (and it was basically a 20D mkII) - I would expect the same from the 40D - so not this fall sadly.

[John_TX]

Feb 2009 will be the earliest we'll get a hint about the 50d from Canon. Also, a lot can happen between now & then, so it will be interesting to see how the whole 3D/5D/7D/50D shake out in Canon's upcoming lineup.

[PhilN]

I think that is the opinion most of us have come to - that there was a5D 2 waiting in the wings but they have had to revise thier plans after the D3

However there seems to be some disagreement over whether the D£ noise levels are really that good

No matter if it means Canon has had to up their game all to the good!

Presumably theyy have a 12.8 MP 50D waiting in the wings too, I suspect that's be announced at the same time as the 5D2 i.e. Sept at the earliest

There was a review in this months Digital Camera magazine and some pics, one of a church interior at 6400 which was spectacular, the definition and DR was highly praised..........now I dont know much about nikon, but I do know they have seriously upped the ante in terms of features (crop mode, dual memory cards and a bunch of other stuff), so Canon now have for a change something that can seriously compete. How many who feel the 5d isnt quite edequate for a pro but think 5k for a 1d is too high are now thinking of jumping ship? I cant seriously see Canon waiting till Autumn, its too long and the damage will be too significant....just my penny worth

[MrChad]

There was a review in this months Digital Camera magazine and some pics, one of a church interior at 6400 which was spectacular, the definition and DR was highly praised..........now I dont know much about nikon, but I do know they have seriously upped the ante in terms of features (crop mode, dual memory cards and a bunch of other stuff), so Canon now have for a change something that can seriously compete. How many who feel the 5d isnt quite edequate for a pro but think 5k for a 1d is too high are now thinking of jumping ship? I cant seriously see Canon waiting till Autumn, its too long and the damage will be too significant....just my penny worth

Would this be the same issue of Digital Camera that tested the 40D, D300, and a700 with the 40D having a 24-85mm EF and the Nikon using a 17-55/2.8DX and the Sony with a Zeiss zoom? Then compared best IQ via L-Jpeg only?

Any pro with a significant amount of cash making money shooting a 5D etc. Is likely not going to jump ship over a 6 mo. lead with Nikon having a 5k pro body of super iso. I mean that same pro has likely been shooting the 5D for well over 2years now, and during those 2 yrs Nikon had 0 to offer for the money. So bravo to Nikon for making a super camera.

I think we can all wait a few months for a new FF Canon pro-sumer body. And I'm in the camp of the few who don't think the 5D replacement was held back or pushed out, I think the 5D is right on time.

With product developement being what it is, it's unlikely that 6 mo.s would allow Canon to radically replace a camera with a major redesign in that time. They would likely be just as well off to release the thing and start on the next model ASAP.

[I Simonius]

RADICAL thought - but perhaps they just can't improve on the 5D image quality ???

Maybe they can't get that same creamy lattitude if they up the MPs?
maybe just putting in 14bit Digic 3 doesn't warrant an upgrade?;)


Oh and Hey! - We're famous (http://www.canonrumors.com/)!

[Who?]

So no more announcements in regards to PMA? Very disappointing. Will have to get another 40D and sell one of them off when the 5D replacement does actually hit.

A 40D-5D combo would have been sweet, but there's no way i'm getting a current 5D when the replacement's just around the corner.

[nicksan]

Just around the corner as in 10 months from now? Because that's probably when the new version, if it comes out in the fall, would start shipping, at probably $1000+ more than the current 5D.

That's more like a few laps around the block...

Good luck with that.

In the meantime there will be a lot of people enjoying their "crappy and old" 5D's.

So no more announcements in regards to PMA? Very disappointing. Will have to get another 40D and sell one of them off when the 5D replacement does actually hit.

A 40D-5D combo would have been sweet, but there's no way i'm getting a current 5D when the replacement's just around the corner.

[Who?]

Crappy and old? Never said that and are you sure about 10 months? Could be sooner. That's what i meant with around the corner - about to be announced. I can wait, no problem, the 40D is one heck of a cam.

[nicksan]

I remember I bought the 40D when it first hit the shops and that was late October...so maybe not 10 month, more like 7-8 months.

Still, that's a long time.



Crappy and old? Never said that and are you sure about 10 months? Could be sooner. That's what i meant with around the corner - about to be announced. I can wait, no problem, the 40D is one heck of a cam.

[steve75]

There was a review in this months Digital Camera magazine and some pics, one of a church interior at 6400 which was spectacular, the definition and DR was highly praised..........now I dont know much about nikon, but I do know they have seriously upped the ante in terms of features (crop mode, dual memory cards and a bunch of other stuff), so Canon now have for a change something that can seriously compete. How many who feel the 5d isnt quite edequate for a pro but think 5k for a 1d is too high are now thinking of jumping ship? I cant seriously see Canon waiting till Autumn, its too long and the damage will be too significant....just my penny worth

But if they think 5k for a 1D is too much, why would they jump ship to an even more expensive D3?

[nicksan]

In what way isn't the 5D adequate for what you described? Let's here it. (Don't want to hear waaaa...the 5D can't do ISO 6400...)

Plus, $5k for your tool as a pro seems reasonable to me. Much like a carpenter having thousands of dollars worth of powertools.

I would hate to see a carpenter show up to my house with Black and Decker tools!

There was a review in this months Digital Camera magazine and some pics, one of a church interior at 6400 which was spectacular, the definition and DR was highly praised..........now I dont know much about nikon, but I do know they have seriously upped the ante in terms of features (crop mode, dual memory cards and a bunch of other stuff), so Canon now have for a change something that can seriously compete. How many who feel the 5d isnt quite edequate for a pro but think 5k for a 1d is too high are now thinking of jumping ship? I cant seriously see Canon waiting till Autumn, its too long and the damage will be too significant....just my penny worth

[lowcrust]

Waaaaaa, the 5D can't do 6400... or 12800 for that matter.

[nicksan]

Waaaaaa, the 5D can't do 6400... or 12800 for that matter.

Oh brother...:lol:

[lowcrust]

http://www.earth-dog.com/lounge/images/smiles/wave.gif

[bungee]

Would this be the same issue of Digital Camera that tested the 40D, D300, and a700 with the 40D having a 24-85mm EF and the Nikon using a 17-55/2.8DX and the Sony with a Zeiss zoom? Then compared best IQ via L-Jpeg only?


I read that one and noticed the same thing. A bit of a pointless review really.

I didn't buy it.

[MrChad]

I read that one and noticed the same thing. A bit of a pointless review really.

I didn't buy it.

Mine came in the mail I had no choice. I was a rather upset with the entire review section in that issue. They even refused to rate the 1Ds, yet basically said Canon is wooped the entire issue. Usually they aren't so daft...but oh well.

Seemed a bit short sighted IMO.

[I Simonius]

http://www.earth-dog.com/lounge/images/smiles/wave.gif

http://www.earth-dog.com/lounge/images/smiles/wave.gif
http://www.earth-dog.com/lounge/images/smiles/wave.gif

[Nightcrawler]

Waaaaaa, the 5D can't do 6400... or 12800 for that matter.

You forgot 25600! I will accept nothing less. :)

[I Simonius]

You forgot 25600! I will accept nothing less. :)

maybe it could just have ONE really big FF sized light sucking pixel!:lol:

[Meaty0]

Hmmm. You know, Canon don't exclusively make new camera announcements at the beginning and end of the year. There's a good chance that the Nikon D3/D300 made them rethink the 5D MkII release date. They might just sit around pickin' their bums for a while until the Nikon sales settle down a bit and then release the 5D MkII....maybe in a couple of months. If they waited until September, that would make the current 5D one very old model.

[Chandler.]

Hmmm. You know, Canon don't exclusively make new camera announcements at the beginning and end of the year. There's a good chance that the Nikon D3/D300 made them rethink the 5D MkII release date. They might just sit around pickin' their bums for a while until the Nikon sales settle down a bit and then release the 5D MkII....maybe in a couple of months. If they waited until September, that would make the current 5D one very old model.

That would be great if Canon stopped letting their release dates be controlled by Camera shows. Next week sounds like a good date to me ;)

[danskim]

I just hope it's named 5D mII.

[I Simonius]

I just hope it's named 5D mII.

me too anythingelse is just plain daft;)

[gpx4]

Still nothing?
I foresee exodus in the coming weeks and months.

[SWPhotoImaging]

You forgot 25600! I will accept nothing less. :)

You have to be careful with ISO above 12800, and when you approach 25600, you risk creating the electronic equivalent of a black hole. Every shutter actuation will actually remove light and matter from the surrounding environment. DSLR's with this capability will have to be severely limited production, to avoid throwing the world into a new ice age caused by the cooling effect of the lowered light levels.

:lol:;)

[herbe_nelson]

You have to be careful with ISO above 12800, and when you approach 25600, you risk creating the electronic equivalent of a black hole. Every shutter actuation will actually remove light and matter from the surrounding environment. DSLR's with this capability will have to be severely limited production, to avoid throwing the world into a new ice age caused by the cooling effect of the lowered light levels.

:lol:;)
AHAHAHAH :)

Brilliant! :)

[I Simonius]

You have to be careful with ISO above 12800, and when you approach 25600, you risk creating the electronic equivalent of a black hole. Every shutter actuation will actually remove light and matter from the surrounding environment. DSLR's with this capability will have to be severely limited production, to avoid throwing the world into a new ice age caused by the cooling effect of the lowered light levels.

:lol:;)

wow! that is scareee:eek:

[BTW I really do believe you! No I do! No IM not avin a larf, I can imagine all those cameras sucking the light out of the universe - I mean hooda thought we'd go like that - man I am scared] ps Im also a sci-fi nut;):p]

[Jannie]

It's been my experience with manufacturing that you don't come out with a new model until the old one drops below a certain percentage in sales. Even with the drop in price of the 5D, Canon is getting their buying market into FF and that translates into more sales in the higher end "L" lenses or certainly could.

They've created a new market that didn't even exist before, offering a prosumer camera that's good enough without having to go to the 16MB camera, which seems to be the standard for excellence. Yes better but the 5D is pretty amazing and has allowed a certain market of buyers to step way up from cameras like the 20D and 30D that were the highest end they would put their money into before.

It may well be that when all the jumping and whooping it up are calmed down from new releases that the 5D will be one of the better values in a good camera offering great images.

I would wish for live view, mostly to check the histogram full frame on the screen as I'm setting up and I would wish for 5fps and a more efficient focusing system. But those are wishes and not radically important for my needs.

But other than that if the 5DII doesn't come out with the possibility of improving the quality of the image like being able to get better images at higher ISO's or dual sensors or an effective highlight control, then I'll probably consider simply getting a second 5D body. The tricks are fine but quality of image is supreme.
Jannie

[I Simonius]

It's been my experience with manufacturing that you don't come out with a new model until the old one drops below a certain percentage in sales. Even with the drop in price of the 5D, Canon is getting their buying market into FF and that translates into more sales in the higher end "L" lenses or certainly could.

They've created a new market that didn't even exist before, offering a prosumer camera that's good enough without having to go to the 16MB camera, which seems to be the standard for excellence. Yes better but the 5D is pretty amazing and has allowed a certain market of buyers to step way up from cameras like the 20D and 30D that were the highest end they would put their money into before.

It may well be that when all the jumping and whooping it up are calmed down from new releases that the 5D will be one of the better values in a good camera offering great images.

I would wish for live view, mostly to check the histogram full frame on the screen as I'm setting up and I would wish for 5fps and a more efficient focusing system. But those are wishes and not radically important for my needs.

But other than that if the 5DII doesn't come out with the possibility of improving the quality of the image like being able to get better images at higher ISO's then I'll probably consider simply getting a second 5D body. The tricks are fine but quality of image is supreme.
Jannie

100% with you there.

As you say if the sales are still ther for them, especially at the lowest price point and considering that it is over£1000 lower than the opening bid ( cost at lauch) then there are probably more takers now than at it's launch, so sure, why bother all the expencse of bringing out a new model until those sales dip very significantly

You have probably hit the nail on the head;)

[nicksan]

Waaaaaaa....ISO 25600....waaaaaaa...:lol::lol::lol:

[Jannie]

.ISO 25600....waaaaaaa...:lol

Okay then, lets go for perfect quality at 25600...Yahooooooooooooooooo :-)

[I Simonius]

Waaaaaaa....ISO 25600....waaaaaaa...:lol::lol::lol:

.ISO 25600....waaaaaaa...:lol

Okay then, lets go for perfect quality at 25600...Yahooooooooooooooooo :-)

sillier and siller gets this thread, thinks I.

When does PMA actually open?
Is it today?

any last minute hopes?

[EOS mE]

sillier and siller gets this thread, thinks I.

When does PMA actually open?
Is it today?

any last minute hopes?

PMA is from 1/31 - 2/2. but i thought someone had said we'll know by 1/24??? lol...

[John_TX]

There will be another announcement on Thursday.

[I Simonius]

PMA is from 1/31 - 2/2. but i thought someone had said we'll know by 1/24??? lol...

I think what was said was that there would be announcements on 24th, but no one said thaey would necessarily announce everything.. so there is just a sliver of a possibility that they were holding something back;)

There will be another announcement on Thursday.

finmgers crossed so tight they're white:mad:

[EOS mE]

tell me about it. i was hoping to go to PMA this year.. but last min. company pull the plug. so now i'm asking my customer to visit the Canon booth to let me know if they announce the new 5D MKII..

[Meaty0]

.ISO 25600....waaaaaaa...:lol

Okay then, lets go for perfect quality at 25600...Yahooooooooooooooooo :-)

Hmm...at that ISO, you could get a pretty good exposure without even opening the shutter at all...maybe even with the lens cap still on.:D

[Dragos Jianu]

Hmm...at that ISO, you could get a pretty good exposure without even opening the shutter at all...maybe even with the lens cap still on.:D

Nonsense! With the lens cap on you'd need at least 34100 if not 2/3 more then 25600!! infidels :rolleyes:
:p

[I Simonius]

http://www.popphoto.com/photonews/5080/sony-develops-full-frame-2481-megapixel-cmos-sensor.html

wow! this ups te game

and means there really is a liklihood trhat the 5Dmk2 is being rethought in light of the sort of competition thi s will bring

[John_TX]

Wow, that's great news! And they plan to have this online & in full production during 2008!

If Sony's production costs are decent for this sensor, Canon will be forced to separate the 5D into two distinct lines (E.g. high-end 3D & low end 7D/50D).

I can see both Sony & Nikon introducing a sub $2000 FF camera and this will definitely make Canon introduce something that's affordable to more of us as well.

The potential only let-down I saw in the article was that this 24MP CMOS sensor is only 12-bit A/D. In the real world, I'm not sure if 4k colors vs 16k colors really makes a noticeable difference (as the current 5D is 12bit).
Has anyone compared similar pictures of the same scene with those taken with the 14-bit 1Ds Mk III & 12-bit 5D? Just curious as to whether there was a noticeable difference in the color tones & gradation between 12 & 14 bit. I guess for that matter, a comparison could bet done between the 40D & 30D as well.

[hitmanh]

http://www.popphoto.com/photonews/5080/sony-develops-full-frame-2481-megapixel-cmos-sensor.html

wow! this ups te game

and means there really is a liklihood trhat the 5Dmk2 is being rethought in light of the sort of competition thi s will bring

Hmm, I think this is a likely rival for the 1Ds rather than the 5d...

Matt

[Jim G]

http://www.popphoto.com/photonews/5080/sony-develops-full-frame-2481-megapixel-cmos-sensor.html

wow! this ups te game

and means there really is a liklihood trhat the 5Dmk2 is being rethought in light of the sort of competition thi s will bring

Ahhh, this can only be a good thing... unless, of course, they put Canon totally out of business... that could be problematic...

[Meaty0]

Methinks Mr Mitarai will have his gold plated Nike's fair up his camera development staff's arse.

[blighty]

I'm buying the first sub-£2k camera that comes on the market, and sticking with that.
If Canon are always going to wait to see what others are doing and then formulate a response then I'm out, I can't be waiting for Canon to play catch-up for the rest of my photography career. I only actually own two lenses so its not the end of the world.

[I Simonius]

Hmm, I think this is a likely rival for the 1Ds rather than the 5d...

Matt

Sure.. to start with .. but nonetheless it ups the ante;)

[hitmanh]

Sure.. to start with .. but nonetheless it ups the ante;)

Oh yes :D

[Robert16]

Is this still going on? So what date are we all looking forward to now? :)

[Chiva]

lol this 5D rumor thread is almost 2 years old.

[Robert16]

lol this 5D rumor thread is almost 2 years old.

I knew it was old. Just like to chip in my facetious 2 pence now and again. lol

[hitmanh]

Is this still going on? So what date are we all looking forward to now? :)

Well, with a little effort we could keep it up for a few more years yet :D

[nicksan]

Is that thing going to do ISO 51200?

Waaaaaaaa....I want ISO 51200....waaaaaaaaaaa.....:lol::lol::lol:

[Robert16]

Well, with a little effort we could keep it up for a few more years yet :D
A little effort, some wit and the odd tangent... it could outlive the 5D:)

[I Simonius]

Well, with a little effort we could keep it up for a few more years yet :D

Lets hope we don't have to .. but if we do then we do!:D:lol:

A little effort, some wit and the odd tangent... it could outlive the 5D:)

That's the idea! But hopefully not by much.. once te mk2 is disclosed/declared/delivered it bye bye time for this thread;)

[Yohan Pamudji]

Lets hope we don't have to .. but if we do then we do!:D:lol:



That's the idea! But hopefully not by much.. once te mk2 is disclosed/declared/delivered it bye bye time for this thread;)

I hope when that happens you're on the ball and immediately start a 5D Mark III rumor thread :D

[Yohan Pamudji]

I really hope Nikon puts out a D3x soon with that Sony sensor. Competition is good, and the less wiggle room Canon has at the top end of their lineup, the less wiggle room they'll have in the middle and bottom--lower prices all across the board!

[Jim G]

I hope when that happens you're on the ball and immediately start a 5D Mark III rumor thread :D

So now that PMA '08 seems to have started it looks like that's really it for the Canon announcements this time around... darn!

[SunTsu]

So now that PMA '08 seems to have started it looks like that's really it for the Canon announcements this time around... darn!
I'm still surprised that they have the 5D on a 3 year cycle (for now anyways). I wonder if that would have been different if there was a $2000 FF Nikon available 2 years ago. I say that because I imagine Canon's product road maps are at least two years deep.

[I Simonius]

I hope when that happens you're on the ball and immediately start a 5D Mark III rumor thread :D

Gonna take some doing to beat this one - just look at the stats!:eek:
;):p:p

[Meaty0]

Hmmm. Canon just announced to the sharemarket a loss for the last quater. The big boss is gonna be pissed. Might just get them to speed things up a bit.

[I Simonius]

Hmmm. Canon just announced to the sharemarket a loss for the last quater. The big boss is gonna be pissed. Might just get them to speed things up a bit.

WOW! that's gonna shake a few people up!

[lowcrust]

We are all assuming Canon is sitting on a fantastic follow-up to the 5D. Imagine if they havn't been able to keep the good image quality on a newer sensor or alternatively failed to improve the image quality of the old sensor. Or that Canon are clueless on how to make higher ISOs with satisfiable results? Maybe they just assumed they would be on top of the game for endless years to come. You know the old proverb, I'm number 1 so why try harder?

Ugh, horrible thoughts.

[JohnnyG]

We are all assuming Canon is sitting on a fantastic follow-up to the 5D. Imagine if they havn't been able to keep the good image quality on a newer sensor or alternatively failed to improve the image quality of the old sensor. Or that Canon are clueless on how to make higher ISOs with satisfiable results? Maybe they just assumed they would be on top of the game for endless years to come. You know the old proverb, I'm number 1 so why try harder?

Ugh, horrible thoughts.
And probably all untrue!;)

Imagining that Canon doesn't know how to do something in cameras is fantasy to say the least. I'm sure there is a lot of marketing savvy in their decisions tied into the bottom line. I really don't think lack of knowledge how to do something is bothering them.:rolleyes:

We will get the 5D replacement when Canon deems it time and not until then. I'm sure marketing pressures affect them slightly buy remember this, the Japanese plan on a multi-year cycle so a few recent competitive pressures don't alter their plans but very little. But, I'm sure they are looking at the competition and deciding what to put in the camera and what not to. Many features are a matter of firmware and that can be changed quickly. If there are features they have that maybe shouldn't go in the latest model, then a decision would be make then.

I think we all can safely say that "NO" camera is shipped with "ALL" of the available technology. Many features are held back until the right time.

[MrChad]

WOW! that's gonna shake a few people up!

You think digital cameras amount to jack at Canon? Digital Cameras are almost nothing and DSLRs are even less of that nothing pie.

Printers and imaging systems are the key to Canon, office equipment - not Cameras are the key to Canon, not cameras.

[sm1rf]

You think digital cameras amount to jack at Canon? Digital Cameras are almost nothing and DSLRs are even less of that nothing pie.

Printers and imaging systems are the key to Canon, office equipment - not Cameras are the key to Canon, not cameras.


OKAYYYEE then Mr angry....;)

[pickle1]

You think digital cameras amount to jack at Canon? Digital Cameras are almost nothing and DSLRs are even less of that nothing pie.

Printers and imaging systems are the key to Canon, office equipment - not Cameras are the key to Canon, not cameras.

Since a very good friend of mine works for Canon and we talk frequently.... your comment and assertion is untrue. Canon is a highly devoted and respected company in the photography world. If it wasn't producing results -- ie cashflow -- then yes it would be eliminated.

Think of all the additional products they sell in addition to cameras that either support the camera or enhance it. I think if you would take some quiet time and think of the larger picture (!) you will find your comment rather immature to say the least. No disrespect meant.

We are all assuming Canon is sitting on a fantastic follow-up to the 5D. Imagine if they havn't been able to keep the good image quality on a newer sensor or alternatively failed to improve the image quality of the old sensor. Or that Canon are clueless on how to make higher ISOs with satisfiable results? Maybe they just assumed they would be on top of the game for endless years to come. You know the old proverb, I'm number 1 so why try harder?

Ugh, horrible thoughts.

From my conversations and with the Mark III being out I would tend to regard that idea as bad. The sky is not falling, my friend and with the 'old' proverb that was bludgeoned I retort that this 'emperor is not naked.'

[Meaty0]

Hmmm. Canon just announced to the sharemarket a loss for the last quater. The big boss is gonna be pissed. Might just get them to speed things up a bit.


I should EDIT: retract this by saying Canon didn't actually make a LOSS in their third quarter sharemarket report. Their "profits slipped" .

[xarqi]

I should qualify this by saying Canon didn't actually make a LOSS in their third quarter sharemarket report. Their "profits slipped" which would be just as worrying.

They did make a point of saying that Digital SLR lenses and compact digital cameras experienced healthy growth during that period. I think cameras and lenses are a BIG part of Canon's profit pie.

More of a retraction than a qualification, in my view.

[MrChad]

Since a very good friend of mine works for Canon and we talk frequently.... your comment and assertion is untrue. Canon is a highly devoted and respected company in the photography world. If it wasn't producing results -- ie cashflow -- then yes it would be eliminated.

Think of all the additional products they sell in addition to cameras that either support the camera or enhance it. I think if you would take some quiet time and think of the larger picture (!) you will find your comment rather immature to say the least. No disrespect meant.




:lol: Boy I do sound angry (typed) don't I!:lol::p

Wasn't intended that way :P

The cameras are a very small part of the business, they didn't really contribute to a slip in recent quarters. The cash cow for them is printer/office products/industrial image equip. Camera gear is more of a PR or public image side of the company. It's nice for bragging, but it's not the core of the company today as one might think. Not being core doesn't mean you sell it either.

And when I say printers I'm not talking about inkjets either...

[mattograph]

According to USA today "today, they were the market share leader in DSLRS and P & S (based on the numbers shown for the top 5 places in each category.)

[John_TX]

What's with all the bickering???

I thought everyone would be happy about the 5D replacement that's about to be released at PMA 2008!

Geez, just can't make you guys happy!

[Dragos Jianu]

Funny.
Looking back late 2004 we only had:

Canon 1Ds2
Nikon D2X
Canon 1D2
Nikon D2H
Canon 20D
Nikon D100
Minolta 7D
Nikon D70
Canon 300D
Pentax *ist D
Olympus E300

Early 2008 we have:

Canon 1Ds3
Nikon D3
Canon 1D3
Nikon D300
Canon 5D
Olympus E3
Sony A700
Canon 40D
Pentax K20D
Sony A350
Canon 450D
Sony A300
Fuji IS Pro
Nikon D80
Panasonic L10
Olympus E510
Pentax K200D
SonyA200
Canon 400D
Nikon D60
Olympus E410
Olympus E400

Funny to see how that shy competition evolved . How mature and ruthless the DSLR wars has become. In the end we are the ones who benefit from it. But it still seems to me Canon was cought off guard this time, first by Nikon with the D3/D300 now by the tiny Pentax with it's sweet K20D/K200D and Sony with whole new A200/A300/A350/A700 lineup. At this point i see them as worthy challengers.
It's not just Canon beating Nikon anymore.
It's Nikon vs Canon vs Sony sv Pentax.

[lowcrust]

From my conversations and with the Mark III being out I would tend to regard that idea as bad. The sky is not falling, my friend and with the 'old' proverb that was bludgeoned I retort that this 'emperor is not naked.'

No, no, I agree! I'm just saying, there's a theoretical possibility that a slice of it could be true. We're assuming a lot, that's all I'm saying. There's no doubt that the Emperor can be conceived as arrogant, naked or not.

[xiskool]

I think it is naive for some to think all of this news in the DSLR world is a surprise to Canon. They have always been competitive in this space, there is no reason to think that will not hold true in the future. Some folks need to leave the marketing to Canon and focus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_%28optics%29) on shooting. : )

[I Simonius]

You know the old proverb, I'm number 1 so why try harder?

Ugh, horrible thoughts.

beastly in fact:p

You think digital cameras amount to jack at Canon? Digital Cameras are almost nothing and DSLRs are even less of that nothing pie.

Printers and imaging systems are the key to Canon, office equipment - not Cameras are the key to Canon, not cameras.

I wonder why they even bother:rolleyes:;)

I should EDIT: retract this by saying Canon didn't actually make a LOSS in their third quarter sharemarket report. Their "profits slipped" .
PHEW! you sure had me going there;):p

According to USA today "today, they were the market share leader in DSLRS and P & S (based on the numbers shown for the top 5 places in each category.)

does a little dance:p

Funny.
Looking back late 2004 we only had:

Funny to see how that shy competition evolved . How mature and ruthless the DSLR wars has become. In the end we are the ones who benefit from it. But it still seems to me Canon was cought off guard this time, first by Nikon with the D3/D300 now by the tiny Pentax with it's sweet K20D/K200D and Sony with whole new A200/A300/A350/A700 lineup. At this point i see them as worthy challengers.
It's not just Canon beating Nikon anymore.
It's Nikon vs Canon vs Sony sv Pentax.

makes it sound one sided but that the way when you're in the lead:D

I think it is naive for some to think all of this news in the DSLR world is a surprise to Canon. They have always been competitive in this space, there is no reason to think that will not hold true in the future. Some folks need to leave the marketing to Canon and on shooting. : )

Not true Canon relies on this forum for most of their insight and advice:lol:

{representatives form Canon insert reply
====
here
====
]}

[chauncey]

Canon monitoring this site, how do you know that? Has anyone here ever got a PM regarding advice on what Canon should do next?

[I Simonius]

Canon monitoring this site, how do you know that? Has anyone here ever got a PM regarding advice on what Canon should do next?

Of course we do, but we are not allowed to disclose the contents so don't even ask!:D

[John_TX]

Agreed, just look at the XSi release. Canon DOES read this site.
Separate ISO button, dual-function print button, 4% spot-meter, .87x viewfinder, ISO display in view finder.

Give me a break! Those were features we've been asking for, especially the view finder. Why else would Canon INCREASE the quality & brightness of the view finder on their flagship P&S bridge camera?

Wouldn't it make more sense to save money on redesigning the view finder if the XSi was targeted towards P&S upgraders who would only use Liveview anyways? You bet.
We asked for a better view w/ISO display in it and that's exactly what they gave us. My point is Canon does listen to us and does try to make legitimate features appear in the next versions of their products.

[I Simonius]

Agreed, just look at the XSi release. Canon DOES read this site.
Separate ISO button, dual-function print button, 4% spot-meter, .87x viewfinder, ISO display in view finder.

Give me a break! Those were features we've been asking for, especially the view finder. Why else would Canon INCREASE the quality & brightness of the view finder on their flagship P&S bridge camera?

Wouldn't it make more sense to save money on redesigning the view finder if the XSi was targeted towards P&S upgraders who would only use Liveview anyways? You bet.
We asked for a better view w/ISO display in it and that's exactly what they gave us. My point is Canon does listen to us and does try to make legitimate features appear in the next versions of their products.

MLU button....ahem:evil:
;):p

[cyrn]

Agreed, just look at the XSi release. Canon DOES read this site.
Separate ISO button, dual-function print button, 4% spot-meter, .87x viewfinder, ISO display in view finder.

Give me a break! Those were features we've been asking for, especially the view finder. Why else would Canon INCREASE the quality & brightness of the view finder on their flagship P&S bridge camera?

Wouldn't it make more sense to save money on redesigning the view finder if the XSi was targeted towards P&S upgraders who would only use Liveview anyways? You bet.
We asked for a better view w/ISO display in it and that's exactly what they gave us. My point is Canon does listen to us and does try to make legitimate features appear in the next versions of their products.

hate to say it... but I bet it's more to match competitor's offerings.

[hitmanh]

hate to say it... but I bet it's more to match competitor's offerings.

I don't really care why they do it, as long as it benefits me :D so hurry up Nikon, fit an MLU button! ;)

[CraigDouglas]

I would guess that they intended to release the 5D for PMA but with the problems with the 1Dmk3 their design team spent a lot of time fixing that issue that they got too far back in the design phase to launch now.

[I Simonius]

I don't really care why they do it, as long as it benefits me :D so hurry up Nikon, fit an MLU button! ;)

chant:

MLU, MLU, MLU,MLU!:mad:;):D

[hitmanh]

I would guess that they intended to release the 5D for PMA but with the problems with the 1Dmk3 their design team spent a lot of time fixing that issue that they got too far back in the design phase to launch now.

Personally, I don't think there was ever an intention by Canon to release the 5d mkII at PMA... Photokina seems a much more likey event.

[Trainboy]

Um..What's an MLU, guys? :o

[jonnythan]

MLU = Mirror Lock-Up.

[FlyingPhotog]

I would guess that they intended to release the 5D for PMA but with the problems with the 1Dmk3 their design team spent a lot of time fixing that issue that they got too far back in the design phase to launch now.

Why would the designers get involved in a tech support issue?

[MrChad]

I wonder why they even bother:rolleyes:;)

}

You can get the financials from www.Canon.com for the year 2007.

Digital cameras on whole are about 25% fo the company sales if I'm skimming the power point slides right. And of that 1/4 about 10% might be DSLR/lens sales - P&S are the massive bulk. And I think we need to remember that the Rebel is the bulk of that DSLR market for Canon. With 5Ds being sunk so low in those digi-cam numbers -it's likely that 1% of Canon total net sales don't even account for 5D's in the full 2007 year financials.

So at the end of the day, did we get a new 5D? One might conclude - they didn't bother. :p

DSLRs are a good image maker, it's nice bragging rights for pros the world over to hold a giant Canon DSLR. Marketing is the key for pushing new DSLRs, I mean did we really need a new 21MP 1Ds. Did the market need a FF 5D? Not really but it's great to have bragging rights as the largest mfg. of FF bodies.

Give Canon time, they likely will respond with some excellent offers as the year goes on. If I recall the D30 was announced in April way back when...could we see a new FF announced in April...I have no flipping clue.

The fact is the current 5D, is the only FF 35mm digital body you can actually afford to buy for under $2500. The next nearest being the D3 at $5000. So you could buy a Canon 5D, flash, and 2-L zooms for less then a D3 alone. That is still impressive - and the D3 is still only a 12MP FF cmos, wow in advertising terms so is the 5D :P Glad to see Nikon got so far in the 2.5 years since we've had and been enjoying the 5D, and the 5 years plus since Canon introduced the DSLR first at 11MPs then.

Think about that, you can buy off the shelf today a full digital equiv. 35mm Canon kit for the price that you purchase Nikon's current only FF Dslr and the only FF dslr currently not made by Canon.

So in the tally sheet at the end of the day.

Canon has released 4 total FF 35mm eq. DSLRS. 11MP , 16MP, 12MP & 21MP (2002-08ytd)
Nikon has released 1 total FF 35mm eq. DSLRS. 12MP (07-ytd)
Sony has released 0 total FF 35mm eq. DSLRS, but they do plan to make a 24MP chip.

So Canon has been a market leader in FF 35mm eq. DSLRS for more then 5 years. The 5D is just now going into it's 3rd year. And it debutted at a price far below the only FF body from Nikon. A great first but still a $5000 camera.

Looking at the numbers our current 5D is a flipping bargain and very relavant still.

I say we really don't need a new 5D to be a "market" leader again. We need a 12MP or better FF Pro-body with noise, color and speed better then Nikon's D3. Now can Canon do that for $5000 or better? You'd think that would be easy...right? So what we need is a 1D between the current two with 1Dmk3 speed, but 5D FF with no noise.

[Trainboy]

MLU = Mirror Lock-Up.
Me like.
*Joins in chanting MLU! MLU!*

[bbbig]

I say we really don't need a new 5D to be a "market" leader again. We need a 12MP or better FF Pro-body with noise, color and speed better then Nikon's D3. Now can Canon do that for $5000 or better? You'd think that would be easy...right? So what we need is a 1D between the current two with 1Dmk3 speed, but 5D FF with no noise.

I say 5D is competing well with D300 right now, although it's due for an update to include weather sealing and 14-bit sensor (like D300), for about $2100. Also 5fps would be nice. That way, people considering D300 would be easily pushed to get 5D2.

I don't think 5D, even with all the updates, would compete with D3, unless they add integrated vertical grip and 1D-like focusing. But the dilemma here is that IF Canon were to do that, then it will cut into 1Ds sales. Another option would be to lower the 1DsMk3 price to $6k, the $2100 5D2 (w/9 point focusing) may seem like a viable option, not cannibalizing 1Dxxx sales. I also think 1DMk3 price is a little high right now, considering a $5k D3 can do 9fps FF. It needs to come down to $3500-4k to be competitive IMO. Yes, if I were starting fresh, I would probably go for D3 instead of 1D or 1Ds Mk3.