NEW 5D RUMOUR !!

[I Simonius]

LATEST Rumour is .... new 5D WILL have:

92MP :cool:


EIT: now a measly 24MP accordion to the latest rumours:cry:

[[Actually first guess was 16-18 MP - just for the record;)]]

Digic 1V
Dust removal
3 custom modes (register settings)
Highlight Tone Priority
Face recognition
G&N Mode ( Boobs and legs recognition)
waterproofing
A new larger Print button (same size as the shutter button) This button must be used every 2000 actuations to reactivate the camera, otherwise all auto modes are locked out until the print button is used [Hopefully someone will develop a hack for this before it is released!) The camera becomes unlocked afte 5000 actuataions of the print button. As yet we don't know whether it ha s to be connected to a printer to work.

It will also be available in custom colours, current proposals are LIme green, Shocking Pink and transparent. Please petition Canon for an 'Apple iMac' colour!

Availablity: Not until SEPT 2007 [rumours to the contrary i.e. Feb release have been debunked - read the thread;-) )

5D wishes:

+ Wider AEB options - e.g. 4 stops either side, with 2 or 1 stop gaps, with 3 or 5 exposures with ONE press of shutter (for HDR):cool:

Another quality AF point like the centre one in the TOP (portrait mode) position, so you don't have to re-frame portraits after focussing in very low light

waterproofing - why? because I bet at least half of 5D users are landscapers and in case no one at Canon has noticed in Europe (esp GB) most of the time IT RAINS!

A lock or guard on the on/off switch or repositioning - it keeps getting knocked off or on by rubbing on clothing when walking - so it's not on when you need a quick shot - and it is on when you want it off to save battery - no good relying on auto off as it keeps getting touched on one button or another as I walk with it

a lock on the diopter adjustment - so it doesn't have to be reset every 10 mins after brusing against it inadvertanly whilst holding the camera from swinging in the undergrowth

Mirror lock up with AEB]- i.e press shutter once and get 3 or 5 mirror locked up bracketed exposures (for HDR):cool:

Mirror lock up BUTTON:rolleyes:

another two custom settings on the dial ( there's p[lenty or room and it would be great to have custom settings for portrait, landcape etc without having to rest the lot and reregister everytime you go out to change shooting

---------------------------


what there won't be is two versions of the 5D (as rumoured)

[what I DON'T want is the 1D series cameras because they are TOO HEAVY]

or eye focussing - yach - ptui!

AND

Never mind all this fast fps malarkey what I want is SLOW fpm;)
- i.e. I want the ability to shoot one frame every 10 secs, 20 secs or 30secs or one a minute - without having to buy an external timing device

LATEST Rumour is .... new 5D WON'T have

Mirror lock up button ( but can be set via registered custom mode)

[hemuni]

what about 12 stop dynamic range?

[I Simonius]

what about 12 stop dynamic range?

Non possibile est!

Why? because you'd need more sensitive pixels and they'd go in the 1D series first
Instead we'll have smaller pixels which will in theory have less dynamic range BUT the 1Ds manages OK so I wouldn't worry

However if there'sa Digit 3 processor to go with it and the rest of the range then you might be talking, as it is the DR is about 8 stops aint it?:)

[hemuni]

Well maybe not entirely impossible. You can group 2 or 3 pixels together to record different areas of the specter. This has been done already, but i cant remember by who.

I actually do think that the coming upgrade to the 1Ds will have larger DR - time will tell.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Fuji has the system with two different types of sensor pickups..
It works well.

[I Simonius]

Fuji has the system with two different types of sensor pickups..
It works well.

Fingers crossed then , but I still think they'd put it in the 1D series for a year before it got into other models

I do think they have to update the 5D though because I reckon they didnt sell anywhere near as many as they hoped, -the one I got had offers that expired pre-Xmas last year - in fact I have the impression only now that they are offering £200 cashback and the price having dropped so far are they actually moving again after the intorductory flurry.

I think the reason for this is that a lot of lanscape photogs (who need the detail) would love a FF cheaper and lighter than the 1Ds but want the level of IQ that the 1Ds currently has and just won't spend that much until it's there. The 5D sold mostly to portrait and wedding photogs as far as I can ascertain

If they do up it, the sales will do what they had origianlly hoped IMVVHO

[hemuni]

Fingers crossed then , but I still think they'd put it in the 1D series for a year before it got into other models...
I agree that the 1 series will see high DR sensors first. But what would then be an upgrade if not sensor? Semipro like the D200?

The cashback sure seems to have made more people jump the wagon, at least around this forum, myself included. Mine also had the free CF card offer expiring in 2005.

The high introductory price indicates that they didn't expect to sell this by the truckloads, but sales probably hasn't been what they hoped for and I'm sure prices will drop further during 2006.

[I Simonius]

I agree that the 1 series will see high DR sensors first. But what would then be an upgrade if not sensor? Semipro like the D200?

The cashback sure seems to have made more people jump the wagon, at least around this forum, myself included. Mine also had the free CF card offer expiring in 2005.

The high introductory price indicates that they didn't expect to sell this by the truckloads, but sales probably hasn't been what they hoped fore and I'm sure prices will drop further during 2006.

Yes sensor upgrade but the 5D will always get one technology below the 1D seerries, so put the new stuff (whatever that will be) in the 1D and give the 5D a 17MP sensor - that'd do me for several a year!;)

[1sdman]

Hmmm. I would hope for:


battery grip with optional wireless built in
battery grip with optional GPS built in
ultrasonic dust removal on sensor
better weather sealing
time-lapse built in, with auto-sleep between shots.


Yeap! I like it.

[I Simonius]

Hmmm. I would hope for:


battery grip with optional wireless built in
battery grip with optional GPS built in
ultrasonic dust removal on sensor
better weather sealing
time-lapse built in, with auto-sleep between shots.


Yeap! I like it.

RiGHT- give me the USDust removal and better weathersealing and a 16MP sensor and I'd a a happy bunny!:p

You can forget the rest of that stuff, that's called a 1D!

[Citizensmith]

I think they'll make a silver version. Everyone would just love that option. :)

[I Simonius]

Fuji has the system with two different types of sensor pickups..
It works well.

Wasn't that more to extend the DR and colour accuracy, which at the time it was released was crap in most DSLRs, and weren't they using the 'other' chip i.e. not CMOS?

Also surely that limits the amount of MPs you can get on the sensor (presumably to half the optimum for sharpness/resolution?

[I Simonius]

I think they'll make a silver version. Everyone would just love that option. :)

How about aWHITE version?:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

With a built in iPod nano?:p :p :p :p :p
The eardrops could be integral to the camera strap! :-)

[I Simonius]

'Someone' in 'a shop' told me they thought the 5D was going to hit £1300 before it's finished (that's more like it!:-))

[hemuni]

16MP sensor and I'd a a happy bunny...
Common, really??
Denser pixels will likely take away the 5D advantage of richer and deeper images. Personally i hope for DR improvement :)

[lostdoggy]

Les berelistic here. The most we'll get woul be weather seal, DIGIC 3, & faster 5fps. I wouldn't want more MP then the photosite will only get smaller.

[I Simonius]

Common, really??
Denser pixels will likely take away the 5D advantage of richer and deeper images. Personally i hope for DR improvement :)

I have not seen any compasrison between a 16MP pic and 13MP pic that shows richer and deeper images for the 13MP pic. Might this not be one of those myths that were supposed to be true but IN PRACTICE made virtually no discernable difference?


Please post some examples to illustrate?

[I Simonius]

Les berelistic here. The most we'll get woul be weather seal, DIGIC 3, & faster 5fps. I wouldn't want more MP then the photosite will only get smaller.

If the 1Ds is anything to go by then I will put up with the results of a smaller photosite to get that extra 'snap' of the higher resolution.

From the reviews I have seen the DR difference between the 5D and 20/30D is insignificant and they have the smaller photosites.

In THEORY the 5D should have much more observable DR than the 20/30D but it doesn't appear to make enough difference to be worth sacrificing the possible extra resolution of a 16MP sensor

[hemuni]

Unfortunatly i don't own a 1Ds so i am not able to do any comparisons.

I do think that the images from my 5D has more punch (color, depth, contrast) than those of my 20D.

I have to say I'm not sure how much of this can be contributed to less dense pixels, different DOF or picture styles - probably all i guess...

What are you looking to benefit from 16mp?

[I Simonius]

What are you looking to benefit from 16mp?

Well this is highly subjective , buit so far I reckon I have been able to always tell a pic from a 1Ds out of others. Probably not 100% of the time but certainly I often say to myself, bet that was taken witha 1ds and it usually was. When I look at the IQ of pics on the net, the ones that really get me are those from the 1Ds [just on IQ not composition etc.] It just seems to me that the 1Ds is THERE in terms of IQ, whereas the 5D is NEARLY there.

And what I see is something that I do want. I want to get that 1Ds punch from my camera, and the 5D is NEARLY there, (I agree you can tell the difference to a 20/30D)

I also especially want people who view my prints to be able to nose them and see high DETAIL . I want that to happen at at least 16" down the long side.

[hemuni]

I have to agree - from what I've seen the 1Ds does produce some stunning images and i can't wait to see the coming upgrade.

You mentioned earlier that making a sensor like the Fuji, with dual pixels for more DR, would degrade IQ. This architecture would actually allow a 1Ds turning out 8mp pictures with 12 stop DR at IQ similar to the 5D... now there is a camera i would line up to get :D

For the moment I'm quite happy with ~13mp. My biggest prints are just A3 and the 5D's images are plenty rich for that (would probably do for a very convincing A0). For web publishing all i need is the 4mp preview jpeg embedded into the RAW files. I'm more concerned with loading times from these big image files making pp a bore.

[I Simonius]

I have to agree - from what I've seen the 1Ds does produce some stunning images and i can't wait to see the coming upgrade.

You mentioned earlier that making a sensor like the Fuji, with dual pixels for more DR, would degrade IQ. This architecture would actually allow a 1Ds turning out 8mp pictures with 12 stop DR at IQ similar to the 5D... now there is a camera i would line up to get :D
yeah but it would still only yield 8MP rs=esolutin, me.. it's the resolution I want first - extra DR later

For the moment I'm quite happy with ~13mp. My biggest prints are just A3 and the 5D's images are plenty rich for that (would probably do for a very convincing A0). For web publishing all i need is the 4mp preview jpeg embedded into the RAW files. I'm more concerned with loading times from these big image files making pp a bore.

Well my G5 dual 2.3 is zippy enough for a few camera upgrades yet;)

[lostdoggy]

I don't think that Canon is ready to introduce a camera that will output 16MP at 1/2 the price of their flagship 1DsMKII. Realisticly the next 5D replacement will not only replace the 5D but also the 1DMKIIn. In order for that to happen the replacement must be able to do 8fps or better and at 16MP it would require a very large buffer to maintain that kind of speed. So, realisticly an upgraded processor, buffer and weather seal is all it'll need. If look Canon did not change a lot in the 1DMKII when it introduce the 1DMKIIn, I would guess that is because they wanted to see what the D200 is capable of and where the market will take it. Canon, I believe, is still waiting to see when Nikon is capable of introducing a FF sensor now that it would have to market a FF sensor at the $3000 range raher then the $8000 range. So the next 5D can't be that much of a change if Canon wants to keep their Aces in their pocket.

[Rob612]

Well maybe not entirely impossible. You can group 2 or 3 pixels together to record different areas of the specter. This has been done already, but i cant remember by who.

I actually do think that the coming upgrade to the 1Ds will have larger DR - time will tell.

Foveon is the answer. Can't remember who did it but at the end is did not turned in a commercial hit.

[hemuni]

Foveon is the answer. Can't remember who did it but at the end is did not turned in a commercial hit.
Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro is the one im talking about. Its escentially a 12mp camera turning out 6mp images with 10 stop DR.

Here is a link to a review of this camera specifically the pages on extended DR - very interesting reading:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms3pro/page18.asp

It's impressive the amount of detail they manage to get from the raw files recorded in wide dynamic range mode.

The system could be improved with shadow or highlight exposure compensation build in to the camera. Combined with picture styles this could eliminate my need for pp all together :D

[Lord_Malone]

Why not an EOS 3D? ;)

[hemuni]

http://www.dphotojournal.com/wp-content/canon_eos_3da.jpg

[I Simonius]

http://www.dphotojournal.com/wp-content/canon_eos_3da.jpg

OH NO! NOT THAT ONE AGAIN!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[hemuni]

Here are the glasses:

http://terraweb.wr.usgs.gov/TRS/kids/glasses.GIF

:lol: :lol:

[I Simonius]

Here are the glasses:



:lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[I Simonius]

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro is the one im talking about. Its escentially a 12mp camera turning out 6mp images with 10 stop DR.
The system could be improved with shadow or highlight exposure compensation build in to the camera. Combined with picture styles this could eliminate my need for pp all together :D

What I really looking for is a cheap 1Ds!;)

[I Simonius]

Fuji has the system with two different types of sensor pickups..
It works well.

I am replying to this posts for no other reason thna it's my 2000th post :lol:

[hemuni]

Congrats! chatty and to much time :D

[I Simonius]

Congrats! chatty and to much time :D

Yup- but Ive had a quet week this week;)

made me want a 5D update even more!

[eeyore2]

Why not an EOS 3D? ;)
You jest, but a freind of mine who actually works in Canon R+D tells me that they are working on a model which is essentially a EOS 3 but digital. This will have the same sensor as the 30D but will have much improved autofocus, particularly in AF servo mode, and the same depth of burst as the 1D mk2 N. Price wise this will be roughly comparable to the 5D, and will be an addition not a replacement, essentially a poor mans 1Dmk2 to the 5D's poor mans 1DSmk2.

Sounds too good to be true but he was bang on on the 10, 20, 30, and 350 D's before they were common knowledge. He also says that a replacement to the 350D will be out in september....

[I Simonius]

You jest, but a freind of mine who actually works in Canon R+D tells me that they are working on a model which is essentially a EOS 3 but digital. This will have the same sensor as the 30D but will have much improved autofocus, particularly in AF servo mode, and the same depth of burst as the 1D mk2 N. Price wise this will be roughly comparable to the 5D, and will be an addition not a replacement, essentially a poor mans 1Dmk2 to the 5D's poor mans 1DSmk2.

Sounds too good to be true but he was bang on on the 10, 20, 30, and 350 D's before they were common knowledge. He also says that a replacement to the 350D will be out in september....

Hooray! - the: 'Friend who works for Canon says....' section of the thread has officially started! YAY!:lol:

SO any gen on the 5D specifically? (Please ask him, pretty please...:beg: )

[eeyore2]

No really I do, Can't say who or where though cos don't want cost him his job. I'll ask him about the 5D next time I see him, don't think sending an E to his work email would be very wise....

Btw, I have to ask, are you the well known wildife camera man,simon king, who does big cat diary etc on the bbc ??

[I Simonius]

Btw, I have to ask, are you the well known wildife camera man,simon king, who does big cat diary etc on the bbc ??

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAA AAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!B WAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAA AAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!BOOO HOOO!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAA AAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!B WAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAA AAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!BWAAAAAAAH!

no

[eeyore2]

Darn, I was going to ask you to get me a date with Saba Douglas Hamilton....

[I Simonius]

Darn, I was going to ask you to get me a date with Saba Douglas Hamilton....

;)

[eeyore2]

I'm seeing them tonight ( my freind from canon that is, not Saba :-( ) so hopefully more gen on the 5D 2morow

[I Simonius]

I'm seeing them tonight ( my freind from canon that is, not Saba :-( ) so hopefully more gen on the 5D 2morow

droool, slaver, pant, pant, pant....:-)

[I Simonius]

I'm seeing them tonight ( my freind from canon that is, not Saba :-( ) so hopefully more gen on the 5D 2morow


I'm waiting.. :tap::tap::tap:

:lol:

[hemuni]

While we wait i have another wish for the new 5D.

I want resolution like this:

http://www.gigabitfilm.de/images/1000fach_linear.jpg

[eeyore2]

I'm waiting.. :tap::tap::tap:

:lol:

Sorry got hung up on another forum ( ever been on wild about britain ? you should)

anyway my freind says that they are working on a 5D replacement, posibly to be called the 5Ds or 5D mk2

sadly it looks to be a bit of a cosmetic change, same sensor (booooooooo I want 16MP) increased burst from 3fps to 5fps, burst also deeper (possibly 45 shots) slightly improved AF (possibly more points). Longer battery life, improved eye cup on the view finder, more intuitive menus (though they seem fine as they are to me). Probably out on the 18 month cycle at an undecided price (at a guess my freind says that it could be about the same as the 5D retails at now).

He also said that he had heard a rumor that there is an illicit firmware hack available that will give existing 5Ds a better burst now (though of course this invalidates your waranty).

He also says that the rumour about eye control is rubbish ..... booooooohooooooo

[I Simonius]

While we wait i have another wish for the new 5D.

I want resolution like this:



Yeeeeeyupp! me too;)

[I Simonius]

Sorry got hung up on another forum ( ever been on wild about britain ? you should)

anyway my freind says that they are working on a 5D replacement, posibly to be called the 5Ds or 5D mk2

sadly it looks to be a bit of a cosmetic change, same sensor (booooooooo I want 16MP) increased burst from 3fps to 5fps, burst also deeper (possibly 45 shots) slightly improved AF (possibly more points). Longer battery life, improved eye cup on the view finder, more intuitive menus (though they seem fine as they are to me). Probably out on the 18 month cycle at an undecided price (at a guess my freind says that it could be about the same as the 5D retails at now).

He also said that he had heard a rumor that there is an illicit firmware hack available that will give existing 5Ds a better burst now (though of course this invalidates your waranty).

He also says that the rumour about eye control is rubbish ..... booooooohooooooo

:evil: All I'm interested in is 16MP:evil:

I am beginning to suspect your friend is guessing wildly based on what they did with the 20D upgrade. non?

Surely if the up the 1Ds to 20+MP they will up the 5D to 16???

I SO want a sub £2500 16MP camera
(Dear bank mamager...you have lovely blue eyes :lol:)

[eeyore2]

I am beginning to suspect your friend is guessing wildly based on what they did with the 20D upgrade. non?

Non ! or at least i doubt it , his gen has been bang on everytime before ( for instance it was him who told me about the 10D, when common knowledge suggested that they werent upgrading the D60. It was also him who tipped me the wink about the 300D before that was common knowledge)

Why would they want to take the 5D to 16MP, when this would undermine the 1DS market - after all how many people are going to pay £2+K more for 4 more MP, particularly when 16 is ample for most applications.

If you desperately need 16MP your best bet would be a second hand 1DS mk2 when (if) the 20MP comes out - assuming that anyone much upgrades of course.

My freind says that what happened with the 20/30 is typical of the canon upgrade strategy, but this based on knowledge not guess work.

However with leaf aptus developing 45MP sensors for their Medium format backs it can't be long till SLR full frames take a big jump forward. and when the 1DSmk 4 (or whatever) has a 30MP sensor it would then make strategic sense for a 5D mk 3 to have 16-20 n'cest pas.

(the last bit is a WAG, but it is mine not my freind's)

[I Simonius]

Non ! or at least i doubt it , his gen has been bang on everytime before ( for instance it was him who told me about the 10D, when common knowledge suggested that they werent upgrading the D60. It was also him who tipped me the wink about the 300D before that was common knowledge)

Why would they want to take the 5D to 16MP, when this would undermine the 1DS market - after all how many people are going to pay £2+K more for 4 more MP, particularly when 16 is ample for most applications.

If you desperately need 16MP your best bet would be a second hand 1DS mk2 when (if) the 20MP comes out - assuming that anyone much upgrades of course.

My freind says that what happened with the 20/30 is typical of the canon upgrade strategy, but this based on knowledge not guess work.

However with leaf aptus developing 45MP sensors for their Medium format backs it can't be long till SLR full frames take a big jump forward. and when the 1DSmk 4 (or whatever) has a 30MP sensor it would then make strategic sense for a 5D mk 3 to have 16-20 n'cest pas.

(the last bit is a WAG, but it is mine not my freind's)

yeah you're right of course but I keep hearing how the 1Ds is getting an update so I'm hoping it'll all shift down

As to second hand 1Ds it is just too big a camera for me, as much as I would like one, I'd never be able to carry it and lenses together:lol: (bad back)

[eeyore2]

As to second hand 1Ds it is just too big a camera for me, as much as I would like one, I'd never be able to carry it and lenses together:lol: (bad back)

Simon you might like this then, but it is a really speculative so don't get toooo excited.

I just got off the phone with my freind and he says that there is some talk at canon about making a plastic composite cased 1DS to cut the weight. This would be a 1DS in all other respects (in 16MP) but without the alloy casing.

This would be targetted squarely at the second body market for Pro 1DS users and would be an addition not a replacement. pricewise it would go for about £3.5k- £4k at list.

Its still early days but it is consistent with their marketing strategy, after all the Eos 3 is essentially a plastic cased 1v and an awful lot of them were bought as back ups by pro 1v users.

[I Simonius]

Simon you might like this then, but it is a really speculative so don't get toooo excited.

I just got off the phone with my freind and he says that there is some talk at canon about making a plastic composite cased 1DS to cut the weight. This would be a 1DS in all other respects (in 16MP) but without the alloy casing.

This would be targetted squarely at the second body market for Pro 1DS users and would be an addition not a replacement. pricewise it would go for about £3.5k- £4k at list.

Its still early days but it is consistent with their marketing strategy, after all the Eos 3 is essentially a plastic cased 1v and an awful lot of them were bought as back ups by pro 1v users.

Now there's a thought! Like it..

I'd better get that old treasure map out and muster up a crew - looks like we need to hit the high seas in seaqrch of buried treasure - a piratin' we will go, a piratin' we will go, eeey ayy addy O a piratin' we will go!:D :D :D :D :D

I feel an adventure in me ol' bones, the seas beckons!
Yeaarrrr!

( not getting excited ...honest...)

[eeyore2]

sign me up for yon crew capn zuur, I'm good with a cutlass, with me flint lock and can lay and shoot a CANON with the best of em :-)

[I Simonius]

sign me up for yon crew capn zuur, I'm good with a cutlass, with me flint lock and can lay and shoot a CANON with the best of em :-)

Yeaarr! Welcome aboard shipmayte!

Now where be me Canon eyeglass?
I'll be be needing that fer sure, ( starts looking distractedly about and mutters..) ..damn cabin boy using it to fry weevils agin no doubt.. 'Jim lad where be ye?'

[I Simonius]

Just had a look through a 1Ds - MAN that's a groovy VF

the 100% FOV is so sweet!
Gimme gimme gimme

But it's such a HEAVY chunk of kit!

Canon man - give me 100% FOV on the next 5D and 17MP sensor, there's a good chap:cool:

[AeroSmith]

Just had a look through a 1Ds - MAN that's a groovy VF

the 100% FOV is so sweet!
Gimme gimme gimme

But it's such a HEAVY chunk of kit!

Canon man - give me 100% FOV on the next 5D and 17MP sensor, there's a good chap:cool:

Just curious, how is the 1Ds VF different than the 5D's VF??

Personally, what I'd like to see is a weather sealed 5D.

I'm in limbo right now: I'm finding that I deperately need a second body but I'm paralyzed by the thought of upgrades coming out in the fall. :rolleyes:

[I Simonius]

Just curious, how is the 1Ds VF different than the 5D's VF??

Personally, what I'd like to see is a weather sealed 5D.

I'm in limbo right now: I'm finding that I deperately need a second body but I'm paralyzed by the thought of upgrades coming out in the fall. :rolleyes:

The 1Ds VF is 100% wheras the 5D is 97% or something, but not 100
You CAN tell the difference, when you look through it it just feels so right, even thouigh it's a tiny difference, perhaps there;s somethingesle about it - I don't know

I do know having looked it over that I would never uy a camera that heavy. Might as well go medium format(:p !!!)

The fall upgraders will be top price, why not get the 5D at a good price now and the upgrade next year at a good price?

[eeyore2]

I'm in limbo right now: I'm finding that I deperately need a second body but I'm paralyzed by the thought of upgrades coming out in the fall. :rolleyes:

Just buy it man, I was like that over going digital then I finally sussed out that something better is always just round the corner, so going that route was a sure fire way to buying nothing.

Is there anyway you could get someone to custom weather seal a 5d ?

[AeroSmith]

Just buy it man, I was like that over going digital then I finally sussed out that something better is always just round the corner, so going that route was a sure fire way to buying nothing.

Is there anyway you could get someone to custom weather seal a 5d ?

Well, I "just bought it" when it came to my 5D. But given that I have a body right now it's kind of easy to rationalize waiting until the fall. But with my desire to do some sports photography and the fact all my lenses are primes I am certainly going to need a second body at some point. I guess I'm really holding out for the 1Ds mkIII.

[Spatch]

Eeyore, you say there is a hack to up the burst rate (I assume by burst, it means fps?). This is the one aspect of the 5D that I think lets it down - its slowish fps. If it had 5fps, for me, it would be almost pertect.

[M2One]

How about a built in x-ray vision where you can see through the wall and clothing.

:D

[Citizensmith]

How about a built in x-ray vision where you can see through the wall and clothing.

:D

Well I don't know about walls but if you remove the IR cut filter from in front of the sensor, add one of those filters that block most of the natural light, and the clothing in question is wet and of artificial materials it does pretty much disappear. There is a Sony camera that was apparently very popular for that particular feature set.

[jackcpsu]

Just update the price tag to sub $2000 will be very nice.

[I Simonius]

How about a built in x-ray vision where you can see through the wall and clothing.

:D

This was already released about 15 yrs ago!
It was a Cokin filter made specially for April 1st

Seriously!

[TimOLondon]

If they upgrade the 5D I'd really like to see a multiple exposures function - just like you used to be able to do on a film SLR, and I think the Nikon D200 has it. I love doing abstract (ish) multiple exposes in camera - as you're never quite sure how they'll turn out. Building it up in photoshop is not the same thing.

[I Simonius]

If they upgrade the 5D I'd really like to see a multiple exposures function - just like you used to be able to do on a film SLR, and I think the Nikon D200 has it. I love doing abstract (ish) multiple exposes in camera - as you're never quite sure how they'll turn out. Building it up in photoshop is not the same thing.

Not bothered by that but I would like to seeAEB motordrive with mirror locked up
i.e. you only have to press the shutter once to get all three AEB pics when the mirror is locked up

[msvirick]

I for one will upgrade my Canon 10D for a 5D if the price goes sub 2000, just enough
to look after the 10% Canadian exchange.

[I Simonius]

I for one will upgrade my Canon 10D for a 5D if the price goes sub 2000, just enough
to look after the 10% Canadian exchange.

Definitely hoping for more thana price drop!

I really hope it gets optomised for HDR e.g. mirror locked up throughout 3 bracketed shots without resetting

AND mirror lock up button option as Cfn

Even BIGGER, BRIGHTER VF!

please?

[I Simonius]

WISH LIST:

brighter VF (as good as 1Ds)
17MPs (not more, DR might suffer)

IN landscape mode make furthest right AF point (top in portraitmode) as good as CENTRE AF point and FURTHER APART from centre i.e. where the eyes would normally be in a portrait
- How often do you want the persons face in the top third of frame but the top AF point is too low to hit between the eyes which means constant reframing

[I Simonius]

There must be something in the offing!

I just got a market research thingy from canon about what I did and didn't like about the 5D and also esentially what amounted to a wish list

However in retrospect some of the quastions were ambiguous, like 'how important is wheight?' Well it's important but the currenmt wheeight is about right - I tought - then later though 'OH they meanin relation to the 1Ds, and other questions would ask a question that required an opinion but only asked for a yes or no answer

Anyway does any one know if there's a way to tell canon what you think of the camera and what you'd like to see new? (don't say that dreadful EOS forum aaaagh!)

MY updated and current wishlist:

1- AEB with mirror lock up, with motor drive. i.e. you press the shutter once and , with the mirror locked up it brackewts the exposures without you having to press the shutter again (avoiding introducing new vibrations) i.e. Improved auto HDR function

2- same type of AF point as centre point at top position AF point in portrait mode( at most RHS in landscape) preferably better spaced to catch eyes of average portrait composition

3- 18MP

4- weatherproofed

5- same wheight and size (NO bigger!)

[AeroSmith]

Is this the weather sealed version of the 5D we've been waiting for?

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_1DS_MkIII.html



http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/1DS_replacement/eos3f_1.jpg



http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/1DS_replacement/5d-3d-1ds2.jpg

[Citizensmith]

Nice bit of photoshop work. Is this the start of the summer rumour season then?

Oh, and a Foveon sensor? No way, too many issues. :)

[I Simonius]

[QUOTE=AeroSmith]Is this the weather sealed version of the 5D we've been waiting for?

I seriously hope not!
It's the same size as 1Ds, might as well get the 1Ds if its the same size:evil:

[ACDCROCKS]

[quote=AeroSmith]Is this the weather sealed version of the 5D we've been waiting for?

I seriously hope not!
It's the same size as 1Ds, might as well get the 1Ds if its the same size:evil:
It might be $4,000 cheaper though....."Money Talks" lol :)

[I Simonius]

[quote=Simon King]
It might be $4,000 cheaper though....."Money Talks" lol :)

nah - won't be that cheap!

I reckon te pricing wil stay the same but ther will be new features:cool:

[I Simonius]

Well folks - nothing happened sensor wise for the 5D in February ( not that it was expected, but the 30D was expected to up and didn't ) BUT there be rumours abounding in the pipeline that the 5D might indeed be up for one:cool:


Ifnot I would go for the 1Ds if it weren'tt so heavy - but it is!:cry:
Stuck betweena rock and a hard place!:(

Digits intertwined ( fingers crossed) then for an upgrade to 18MP for the 5D in Sept, although when I posted that idea to the EOS forum that suggestion was met with such flat derision that I decided that was not the best place to visit to discuss what one's hopes were.:rolleyes:

[Citizensmith]

I'd love 18mpx for the 5D MkII if that also means the current 5D gets a decent price drop. It would also help to differentiate it from the APSc bodies. Of course with my budget I'm much more interested in what happens in the $1000 to $1500 range. :)

[I Simonius]

I'd love 18mpx for the 5D MkII if that also means the current 5D gets a decent price drop. It would also help to differentiate it from the APSc bodies. Of course with my budget I'm much more interested in what happens in the $1000 to $1500 range. :)

It probably isn't realistic to hope for a BIG price drop for the 5D , it has to stay at about twice the price of the top of 1.6 range I imagine.

In te UK the 5D came out at about £2500 and has dropped to £1600 in a year, I expect it will finish at approx £1400 maybe even £1200 by this time next year IF they have a new model out, if not I suspect it wil keep its price

I do hope they bring out a new model soon as I do want 18MP for landscapes ina small portable camera, which the 1Ds MK2 ain't!

I would be happy to pay the same price as the 5D had when it firt came out or even a little more , say up to £3000, IF it has the full 18MP - if it only goes up to say 16 MP shalln't bother.

I have edited my original post slightly so my wish list now reads :
I want 18MP :cool:
Mirror lock up BUTTON:rolleyes: (Cfn for print button will do)
Mirror lock up with AEB - i.e press shutter once and get 3 mirror locked up bracketed exposures:cool:
Wider AEB options - e.g. 4 stops either side, with 2 or 1 stop gaps, with 3 or 5 exposures:cool:

& ideally waterproofing ( willing to pay extra)
[what I DON'T want is the 1D series cameras because they are TOO HEAVY]

[Andy_T]

Well,

as everybody in the '20D/30D/1D upgrade threads' is clamoring for a full frame sensor, I do the same:

I want it to have a 6x4.5 sensor (medium format)!
Of course with 10 fps and a 50 RAW images buffer...

:lol:

Best regards,
Andy

[I Simonius]

Well,

as everybody in the '20D/30D/1D upgrade threads' is clamoring for a full frame sensor, I do the same:

I want it to have a 6x4.5 sensor (medium format)!
Of course with 10 fps and a 50 RAW images buffer...

:lol:

Best regards,
Andy

but you can already!

Check out the digital MF stuff:D

[Andy_T]

Yes, but I want to have it with Canon lenses. Although there might be a slight vignetting problem... :wink:

Best regards,
Andy

[I Simonius]

Yes, but I want to have it with Canon lenses. Although there might be a slight vignetting problem... :wink:

Best regards,
Andy


:eyes

[SoaringUSAEagle]

It just seems that with everything coming out... and being upgraded, I kinda want to wait to get my 5D... But I probably wont lol.

[I Simonius]

what about 12 stop dynamic range?

= HDR;)


Photoshop CS3 will undoubtedly have loads more functionaility for HDR - and as the HDR is mostly needed for landscapes using a tripod and CS3 will do fine (and still have wider effective DR than the DR on the chip alone could ever be)

[Lightstream]

The usual: 5fps, 60-shot buffer (more is always nice), 1.3X crop framelines in viewfinder with option for 1.3X crop on camera to 8MP. Software selectable of course, so I can 'extend' my telephotos when I feel like.

More unusual: TWO-shot AEB to bracket in one direction only. This needs a little bit of explanation. When I shoot at dusk or low light, I want the camera to deliberately underexpose by say, 2/3rd or 1 whole stop depending on my mood. I also want it to take one frame at the default exposure it chooses with no compensation.

Currently I set AEB and 3fps drive mode to achieve this, so AEB gives me -1, 0, +1. I could honestly do without the +1 as I know it will be blown out even before I see it. So... 2-frame AEB with bracketing in one direction only would be sweet. :)

[I Simonius]

The usual: 5fps, 60-shot buffer (more is always nice), 1.3X crop framelines in viewfinder with option for 1.3X crop on camera to 8MP. Software selectable of course, so I can 'extend' my telephotos when I feel like.

More unusual: TWO-shot AEB to bracket in one direction only. This needs a little bit of explanation. When I shoot at dusk or low light, I want the camera to deliberately underexpose by say, 2/3rd or 1 whole stop depending on my mood. I also want it to take one frame at the default exposure it chooses with no compensation.

Currently I set AEB and 3fps drive mode to achieve this, so AEB gives me -1, 0, +1. I could honestly do without the +1 as I know it will be blown out even before I see it. So... 2-frame AEB with bracketing in one direction only would be sweet. :)


Why would anyone want 1.3 crop framelines? why not 1.6, 1.4, 1.5, 1.7, 1.8 etc .?
--makes non de sense to moi

TWO shot AEB..wouldn't 5 stop AEB cover that and then you could just sling the two over exposed shots? Cos 5 shot AEB (or 7 - why not?) would be on my wish list

[DavidW]

You can already bias AEB - for example, if you dial in -1 EC, and 1 stop AEB, you'll get -2, -1 and 0.



David

[I Simonius]

You can already bias AEB - for example, if you dial in -1 EC, and 1 stop AEB, you'll get -2, -1 and 0.



David

sure BUT you can't do it all at the press of one button ie.e. mirror lock up with wide AEB

You can't even AEB that wide without the extra steps , by which time the scene could have changed quite a bit

[AdamJL]

Mirror lock up with AEB - i.e press shutter once and get 3 mirror locked up bracketed exposures:cool:

QFT

Also,

1. being able to AEB more than three shots... like maybe 4 either side (9 in total) - without having to "dial" anything in.
Would be great for HDR.
2. Weather proofing
3. Digic III
4. Dust removal
5. Larger LCD (perhaps using OLED instead)

I think the current sensor size is fine, but this is coming from someone with a 350D :D

[I Simonius]

QFT

what is QFT???


Also,

1. being able to AEB more than three shots... like maybe 4 either side (9 in total) - without having to "dial" anything in.
Would be great for HDR.

HDR is where I'm atman (ATMAN's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman_%28Hinduism%29) where it's at man!)

2. Weather proofing
definitely for any sensible landscape photrographer - I mean does it rain in the rainforest - canon hellooo! (yes there is the 1Ds but it wheighs a ton!)

3. Digic III probably

4. Dust removal questionable technology AFAIC definitely a 'wait and see'

5. Larger LCD (perhaps using OLED instead)
not larger just easier to see in bright sunlight


I think the current sensor size is fine, but this is coming from someone with a 350D :D

you tink the current sensor size is fine , of the 5D? You're not suggesting a LARGER than FF sensor? I wonder if that's possible?

[AdamJL]

what is QFT???

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=QFT

Not the Quantum Physics stuff :lol:

you tink the current sensor size is fine , of the 5D? You're not suggesting a LARGER than FF sensor? I wonder if that's possible?

Woops, total cock-up there.
I mean 12.8mp seems fine to me...

Oh, in general, I would like to see Canon add remote control/access to their cameras.
So being able to key in settings from a laptop and transmit it to a camera via wifi over large distance would be cool. You could even have a live visual feed from the camera to the laptop/PC. I guess this would help nature photographers a bit, and also those people in extreme climates. You can take the picture without ever being there, lol.
This point isn't that serious, but it'd be cool!

[I Simonius]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=QFT

Not the Quantum Physics stuff :lol:



Woops, total cock-up there.
I mean 12.8mp seems fine to me...

Oh, in general, I would like to see Canon add remote control/access to their cameras.
So being able to key in settings from a laptop and transmit it to a camera via wifi over large distance would be cool. You could even have a live visual feed from the camera to the laptop/PC. I guess this would help nature photographers a bit, and also those people in extreme climates. You can take the picture without ever being there, lol.
This point isn't that serious, but it'd be cool!

that's be on the 1D series first
But re: 12.8 MP - it is fine for weddings and portraits sure..BUT for landscape it isn't fine at all!

You just can't get the fine landscape details or print size from that it definitely needs -at least the same as the 1Ds 2i.e. 18MP

That limits the 5D to a weddings a nd portraits camera, whereas I want a LIGHT camera ( don't care what series they call it), that is weatherproofed and 18MP minimum

[M2One]

So there is no hope for 5D to be replaced this year?

Hmm...

[I Simonius]

So there is no hope for 5D to be replaced this year?

Hmm...

There IS hope because Canon often surprise us!

[fi20100]

...
5. Larger LCD (perhaps using OLED instead)



I don’t thin OLED is a sensible alternative for the LCD, at least not the current generation of OLED. Their lifespan is quite limited, and that is not something you would want in a seriously expensive equipment like that.

[lostdoggy]

OLED is already used in MF digitalbacks.

[fi20100]

Well, the projected lifespan of an OLED display is about 10 000 hours, which is considerably less than an LCD display.

[lostdoggy]

10000 hrs, that would be a major concern if you plan to use it to watch television. But seriously, how many hours do you think you would keep your DSLR display on a year???

[fi20100]

True, but how many years would you be planning to use your 5D? And when you want to upgrade, and you would sell the 5D, it could definitely be a concern for the buyer. It could also affect the price of used equipment.

[lostdoggy]

I generally don't sell my equipment and buy when newer toys comes out. Buying used equipment is out of the question, its like having sloppy seconds. At least to me.

[fi20100]

I generally don't sell my equipment and buy when newer toys comes out. Buying used equipment is out of the question, its like having sloppy seconds. At least to me.

Well as for now, neither have I bought second hand camera gear, nor sold any of mine. However, that is not true for everyone. Overall camera gear seems to be something that is quite heavily traded used. And apparently there is quite a big market for it.

I do think OLED will be a possibility in quite a near future. A lot of R&D is being done in the field, and for instance the life span has been improved vastly lately. It’s coming, it not quite there yet though.

[lostdoggy]

From what I've read rumors have it that there is a blue OLED that has a lifespan of 40,000 hours. The concern of lifespan of OLED is heat relate. Given the short duration of the rear display being on really makes lifespan issue a non issue since it would rarely be left on for long duration at a time.

[I Simonius]

From what I've read rumors have it that there is a blue OLED that has a lifespan of 40,000 hours. The concern of lifespan of OLED is heat relate. Given the short duration of the rear display being on really makes lifespan issue a non issue since it would rarely be left on for long duration at a time.

durability of ALL componants is an issue, it would be bad for Canon's reputation if ANY part failed repeatedly. If any part LCD screen or other were to have new technology incorporated it has to work better than the previous version, and at least as long. Otherwise sales will be low and press will be bad

Therefore they are highly unlikely to incorporate any unproven technology or undurable componant

[AdamJL]

It's not that unproven. Sony has used it in their latest mp3 players. I believe a few P&S manufacturers have also used it, and so far, there have been no problems.

[fi20100]

I'm sure it's coming when it's ready... but there is a slight difference between mp3-players, P&S cameras and prosumer DSLR cameras.

[AdamJL]

I'm sure it's coming when it's ready... but there is a slight difference between mp3-players, P&S cameras and prosumer DSLR cameras.

Such as?
If anything, P&S cameras probably use the screen more. Especially the newer ones that have a live-view screen. There's no viewfinder on a lot of P&S cameras.

[fi20100]

Such as?
If anything, P&S cameras probably use the screen more. Especially the newer ones that have a live-view screen. There's no viewfinder on a lot of P&S cameras.

Yes, I know that. But both price and expectation is quite different between P&S and prosumer DSLR cameras.

[AdamJL]

The technology is easily ported.
What does a DLSR user really expect from the screen anyway? Histogram info, a bit of chimpage, and menu navigation. The screen doesn't have to be the be all and end all. I think Canon would be well served introducing a newer technology, but it will probably be SED, not OLED as they are jointly developing that tech with Toshiba I think.

[fi20100]

I have a feeling that the SED technology is more suitable for big screens, while the OLED works better for smaller ones. But, time will tell.

[Sprout Crumble]

SED is fundamentally unsuitable for this kind of display I believe.
Canon are heavily invested in OLED as well and have shown prototypes built into existing models.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

Okay so how true is the rumor of the 5D having another $300 rebate? I am so ready to purchase this camera along with the 70-200 2.8 IS but I dont want to lose out on $300 especially since Canon "should" announce their fall rebates around mid next month...

[I Simonius]

Okay so how true is the rumor of the 5D having another $300 rebate? I am so ready to purchase this camera along with the 70-200 2.8 IS but I dont want to lose out on $300 especially since Canon "should" announce their fall rebates around mid next month...

well only a few days to go to find out...

I have my fingers crossed that the predicted 5D upgrade (possibly to be called a 3D?) will have the higher spec sensor. Then I will be truly satisfied with my camera gear for at least ...let me see... yes a full two years I reckon!
Seruoiously though I actually think that that would do it for me, just all those lovely lenses to save up for then:-)

[Sprout Crumble]

I so hope the 3D is a crop. Upgrade the 5D by all means, just call it the 5D II.

Canon, wheres my damn mini-1D crop body?

[MHP]

no no crop on 3d, absurd!! how many crop cameras do ya want!! :-(

[fi20100]

I so hope the 3D is a crop. Upgrade the 5D by all means, just call it the 5D II.

Canon, wheres my damn mini-1D crop body?

If you want another cropped camera, why not just buy a 30D...

[OceanView]

The crop cameras will be only for lower priced entry level cameras and XXD series cameras.

[Sprout Crumble]

no no crop on 3d, absurd!! how many crop cameras do ya want!! :-(

How the hell is it absurd?

Crop isn't a poor mans format and I'm bloody tired of the attitude and the opinion that it is. There are those of us who have as much use for the features of the 1D body as a FF user, yet enjoy the many benefits of the APS-C sensor.

In case you hadn't noticed, 95% of the DSLR market is perfectly happy with the sensor size and Nikon are quite happy to stick it on three bodies that sit above the 30D in the marketplace.

I have a 20D, why on earth would I want a 30D?

I just can't believe this attitude. There are only two, quite similar in spec and price, crop bodies so whats so wrong with a high-end one?
Amazes me the way the FF crowd look down on APSC as inferior when it has more advantages than disadvantages. It'd sell a damn sight more than another bloody 5D.

[I Simonius]

How the hell is it absurd?

Crop isn't a poor mans format and I'm bloody tired of the attitude and the opinion that it is. There are those of us who have as much use for the features of the 1D body as a FF user, yet enjoy the many benefits of the APS-C sensor.

In case you hadn't noticed, 95% of the DSLR market is perfectly happy with the sensor size and Nikon are quite happy to stick it on three bodies that sit above the 30D in the marketplace.

I have a 20D, why on earth would I want a 30D?

I just can't believe this attitude. There are only two, quite similar in spec and price, crop bodies so whats so wrong with a high-end one?
Amazes me the way the FF crowd look down on APSC as inferior when it has more advantages than disadvantages. It'd sell a damn sight more than another bloody 5D.

anyway....


The current 5D is FF and I would dearly like a FF camera that had upgraded features from the current model, without going the size and wheight of the 1D series.

What they call it I don't care, but for now I'll hope for an upgrade to the 5D , whatever form it comes in, and hopefully with as many of the features listed in the post strting this thread

Digits, as ever, intertwined;)

[Atlasman]

anyway....


The current 5D is FF and I would dearly like a FF camera that had upgraded features from the current model, without going the size and wheight of the 1D series.

What they call it I don't care, but for now I'll hope for an upgrade to the 5D , whatever form it comes in, and hopefully with as many of the features listed in the post strting this thread

Digits, as ever, intertwined;)

I'll settle for a nice deep discount on the current 5D! :D

[blackshadow]

Crop isn't a poor mans format and I'm bloody tired of the attitude and the opinion that it is. There are those of us who have as much use for the features of the 1D body as a FF user, yet enjoy the many benefits of the APS-C sensor.



The reason for the proliferation of crop cameras is price - the price of production of crop sensors as opposed to FF is what makes FF cameras so expensive. This has led to crop cameras being adopted by the masses while the FF cameras are tailored towards professionals and more expensive pro features being incorporated into the range - stuff like weather sealing, better AF and metering and general build quality of the camera.

To get the best from FF you also need to have better quality lenses while with crop cameras there is a very nice range of EF-S lenses available that are generally cheaper than professional glassware.

These factors dictate that crop cameras are in fact a poor man's format.

Canon have considered a crop camera that has the features of a 1Ds Mark II and they came up with the 1D MarkII N.

[Sprout Crumble]

These factors dictate that crop cameras are in fact a poor man's format.



:lol: :rolleyes:

Simply unbelievable.

So Nikons D2Xs at $4500 is a poor mans camera?

So every other camera maker and every other DSLR except the 5D and the 1Ds2 use a poor mans format?

So Nikon wasted their time and energy making the D200, D2Hs and D2Xs weather-sealed and well built because a pro wouldn't touch a crop camera?

So an amateur doesn't need superior AF and metering?

You're wrong on so many levels its almost beyond belief. No 1Ds2 owner would come out with comments like that but as usual, the inbuilt arrogance that comes free with every 5D rears its ugly head.


Lets get a few facts straight right now;

1. No other camera maker but Canon gives a toss about FF sensors.
2. Less than 5% of Canons output is made up of FF bodies.
3. Crop cameras have telephoto advantages much loved by pros.
4. ALL lenses fit crop cameras. Dozens of Canon/Sigma/Tamron lens don't fit the 5D.
5. Crop cameras are superior performers for sport/wildlife/action photography. Kinda more important to be weather-sealed than a more landscape/still-life/studio format, don't you think?
6. EFS lenses are 'cheaper'. You forgot superior as well. The 60/2.8 is considered better than the 100/2.8 and the 17-55/2.8 better than just about any comparable zoom in anybodys range. What a hardship it is for us poor crop owners to have to put up with such rubbish optics.

By all means wish for an enhanced 5D but criticising other, at least as valid desires, smacks of condescension in the extreme. An unfortunate side effect of the release of the 5D.
And yes, I do think the 5D is a fine camera with a place on the market. Just not the only place. Rant over.

[fi20100]

I have to agree with Richard here.

The crop cameras have really enjoyed a lot of attractiveness because of the price. There are a lot of advantages that comes with a bigger sensor alone, but price is not one of those.

Nikon and the rest of the competition are perfectly happy with the sensor size only because they have no option at this moment.

And if you really want the EOS xD cameras with a crop, there’s always the 1D MarkII N as Richard pointed out.


Now, I hardly think you can tell me that I’m from the FF crowd. At the moment I’m shooting with a 350D. However, one day, I do want something equivalent to the 5D, and I want it to be FF.

EDIT: blackshadow, your last post was posted as I was writing mine :)

[Sprout Crumble]

But again, there's no admittance of advantages to the APS-C sensor.

More lens choice for example. APS-C bodies have some excellent wides now but there's been no corresponding release of telephotos for FF, nor would it be practical or gain anything given that every lens also fits the crop bodies.
They capture images quicker, are smaller, have DOF advantages for macro work and have become the universal standard.

By comparison, the only real advantage to FF is a reasonable increase in outright image quality but as time goes on, its clear APS-C will ouput a quality as good as 99% will ever need. There are limits to output technology (printers, monitors etc) and to the resolving power of the human eye. When both APS-C and FF have reached a practical limit, whats the point of FF?

Theres a place for FF at the moment but its ludicrous to suggest its the future. The format size remains arbitrary for digital and firmly rooted in nostalgia. Nothing will alter the fact that APS-C is now THE standard for Dslr and future developments will undoubtably reduce sensor sizes further. I know of no precedent for electronic equipment of any type increasing in size with progress.

[fi20100]

Well, I must say I found some of your arguments flawed, mostly because you are failing to admit that Image Quality probably is the most important attribute to a lot of photographers. The bigger sensor does and will always give better low light, high ISO pictures, and the pixels will always be of higher quality.

The extra reach you get with a crop camera is really just a crop of what the picture would have been with a FF. You don’t get more length, it just appears so.

The only reason why the crop cameras became so popular was because of price. It was, and is still today impossible to produce an entry model camera with a FF sensor.


I know of no precedent for electronic equipment of any type increasing in size with progress.

How about TVs and monitors?

Now, I’m not saying that the crop camera market does not have a future. But I do think it will be more balanced in the future, when price does not differ as much between crop cameras and FF cameras.

[I Simonius]

But again, there's no admittance of advantages to the APS-C sensor.

Perhaps a different thread on that topic then, as this thread is specifically about the 5D???

[Sprout Crumble]

Well, I must say I found some of your arguments flawed, mostly because you are failing to admit that Image Quality probably is the most important attribute to a lot of photographers. The bigger sensor does and will always give better low light, high ISO pictures, and the pixels will always be of higher quality.

Then why is everyone talking about, and drooling over, a 22mp 1Ds3? That has the same pixel density as the 30D and therefore NO image quality improvements on a per pixel basis, outside of general improvements equally applicable to crop?

The extra reach you get with a crop camera is really just a crop of what the picture would have been with a FF. You don’t get more length, it just appears so.Missing the point. APS-C still allows a greater potential resolution on a specific field-of-view basis. Thats why APS-C is popular with so many pros.

The only reason why the crop cameras became so popular was because of price. It was, and is still today impossible to produce an entry model camera with a FF sensor.You're assuming there's a demand for FF regardless. Its fair to say that APS-C isn't seen as a compromise by the wide majority but as normal. FF to most is a nostalgic size, arbitrary in the digital world.

How about TVs and monitors?

Now, I’m not saying that the crop camera market does not have a future. But I do think it will be more balanced in the future, when price does not differ as much between crop cameras and FF cameras.TV's are constantly shrinking. Smaller electronics, greater pixel density (1080p 37" anyone), thinner. Just a matter of interpretation.

I don't believe FF will proliferate. The longer it stays a niche, the more likely thats a permanent situation. Theres a practical limit to the point where the difference in quality becomes so small that choosing a camera by sensor size becomes irrelevant to all but a handful, similar to MF perhaps. Besides, the FF crowd always seem to want more resolution. If outright image quality were as important as you say that wouldn't be the case. For many, FF is just a way to get even more pixels.

Think it best to let the discussion get back to the 5D then. Nobody's changing anyone elses mind here. Interesting though.

[blinking8s]

give me a digital 1v and i'll be set...aka weather sealed 5d with 1 series'ish AF...the sensor is fine the way it is...and the size of the camera is perfect

[Atlasman]

FF will always have the advantage over cropped, simply because pixel resolution determines degree of image reduction: image reduction means noise reduction. The only time this will not hold true is when viewing at 100%.

A cropped sensor with greater pixel density will only mean greater image degradation. But if you can achieve excellent signal-to-noise ratios on a cropped sensor, why not apply it to FF? And again FF holds the advantage.

Maximizing the size of the sensor on the 35mm format is a goal that all camera maufactures should strive towards—its a matter of time before we have multiple players in the FF 35mm digital format.

I'm drawn to FF because of image quality—period. If the price on the 5D drops this fall or winter, I will buy one.

[fi20100]

FF will always have the advantage over cropped, simply because pixel resolution determines degree of image reduction: image reduction means noise reduction. The only time this will not hold true is when viewing at 100%.

A cropped sensor with greater pixel density will only mean greater image degradation. But if you can achieve excellent signal-to-noise ratios on a cropped sensor, why not apply it to FF? And again FF holds the advantage.

Maximizing the size of the sensor on the 35mm format is a goal that all camera maufactures should strive towards—its a matter of time before we have multiple players in the FF 35mm digital format.

I'm drawn to FF because of image quality—period. If the price on the 5D drops this fall or winter, I will buy one.

Amen!

[blackshadow]

:lol: :rolleyes:

Simply unbelievable.

So Nikons D2Xs at $4500 is a poor mans camera?

So every other camera maker and every other DSLR except the 5D and the 1Ds2 use a poor mans format?

So Nikon wasted their time and energy making the D200, D2Hs and D2Xs weather-sealed and well built because a pro wouldn't touch a crop camera?

So an amateur doesn't need superior AF and metering?

You're wrong on so many levels its almost beyond belief. No 1Ds2 owner would come out with comments like that but as usual, the inbuilt arrogance that comes free with every 5D rears its ugly head.


Lets get a few facts straight right now;

1. No other camera maker but Canon gives a toss about FF sensors.
2. Less than 5% of Canons output is made up of FF bodies.
3. Crop cameras have telephoto advantages much loved by pros.
4. ALL lenses fit crop cameras. Dozens of Canon/Sigma/Tamron lens don't fit the 5D.
5. Crop cameras are superior performers for sport/wildlife/action photography. Kinda more important to be weather-sealed than a more landscape/still-life/studio format, don't you think?
6. EFS lenses are 'cheaper'. You forgot superior as well. The 60/2.8 is considered better than the 100/2.8 and the 17-55/2.8 better than just about any comparable zoom in anybodys range. What a hardship it is for us poor crop owners to have to put up with such rubbish optics.

By all means wish for an enhanced 5D but criticising other, at least as valid desires, smacks of condescension in the extreme. An unfortunate side effect of the release of the 5D.
And yes, I do think the 5D is a fine camera with a place on the market. Just not the only place. Rant over.

Time to get your hand off it mate.

I don't think anyone has been criticising crop cameras; most in disagreement with your posts use them.

FF cameras are for those who want superior performance that crop cameras cannot deliver. They cost more to manufacture and deliver performance beyond that which most consumers would use or pay for; most are happy with their crop cameras (and there are some damned good ones out there - I own and use one myself). Therefore crop cameras will remain a poor man's camera compared to FF. The Nikons you cite would be significantly more expensive if they came in FF format.

When referring to EF-S lenses I said there were some nice ones available - however they aren't of the same quality as L series glassware; they are good but because they are made for a smaller size sensor they don't need to deliver the same performance that L series give to FF sensors.

I for one am damned glad that Canon gives a damn about FF and their crop cameras outperform the opposition in just about all circumstances.

Maybe it's time for you to stop your whining about Canon and FF cameras and go buy a Nikon.

[I Simonius]

This thread is wandering way off topic!:rolleyes:

There are other threads discussing crop v FF:cool:

[I Simonius]

http://www.butzi.net/reviews/EOS-5d.htm

absolutely bang on review and especially this bit:
"To top it off, there's no viewfinder shutter, so either I make exposures with my eye to the camera, or else I cover it with my hand, so that the exposure is metered correctly. Sure, there's a little dingus on the camera strap that came with the camera, and if I take off the rubber eyecup on the viewfinder (so that it immediately gets lost) I can fit the camera strap dingus on the viewfinder to cover it up. The flying pigs will be having a hard time landing on the ice covered runway in Hell before I resort to using that. Really. Who the heck do they think uses that sort of crud? Give us all a break, and don't design that stuff. It's just irritating, and it makes me think the camera designer has never actually used a camera to make a photograph."

THIS I really want fixed please Mr canon for the next iteration - ta everso!

[Tom W]

You know, that little rubber eyepiece cover is silly. I'd just as soon carry a roll of duct tape and cover the eyepeice on long exposures. Plus, when I'm shooting in the dark, I generally have the angle finder eyepiece attached for manual focusing.

[I Simonius]

You know, that little rubber eyepiece cover is silly. I'd just as soon carry a roll of duct tape and cover the eyepeice on long exposures. Plus, when I'm shooting in the dark, I generally have the angle finder eyepiece attached for manual focusing.

It is silly isn't it?

I really hope that whether it gets called a 5D or not canon comes out with an upgrade that recognises all these deamnds that have been pointed out as shortfallings of the camera repeatedly, i.e. the mirror lock up, VF shutter etc

[Tom W]

Canon ought to introduce a 1.25X viewfinder attachment with a built-in shutter. That would be very useful to me.
I'm not inclined to buy another body for quite some time so I'd like another option here.

[I Simonius]

Canon ought to introduce a 1.25X viewfinder attachment with a built-in shutter. That would be very useful to me.
I'm not inclined to buy another body for quite some time so I'd like another option here.

maybe the angle findr at least copuld have one, or does it already?

[JBF]

Weather sealing would be excellent, but keep the camera size on the 5D the same. I think the 5D is a perfect size for my hand. My only other wish would be 5fps instead of 3. I could use it more often for sports. I used a friends Mark II the other day and it is so fast after a few seconds your buffer is shot. The 5D with its current buffer size and 5FPS would be ideal.

[AdamJL]

Weather sealing for me is the most important upgrade to the 5D. I hope to God they implement it... I love travelling to extreme places, but I don't want to have to lug around a 1Ds because it's the only camera that can truly operate at altitude and in the desert.

And they should too - a lot of pros use a 5D as backup at events.

[I Simonius]

Weather sealing for me is the most important upgrade to the 5D. I hope to God they implement it... I love travelling to extreme places, but I don't want to have to lug around a 1Ds because it's the only camera that can truly operate at altitude and in the desert.

And they should too - a lot of pros use a 5D as backup at events.

I'm totally with you on that one!:cool:
Buty keep the same size and wheight! ( can't emphasise that enough)

[I Simonius]

anyone fancy the 400D dust removal?
Looks like with a large sensor all it would do is move it round

Don't fancy it over a proper clean myself...:rolleyes:

[24Peter]

anyone fancy the 400D dust removal?
Looks like with a large sensor all it would do is move it round

Don't fancy it over a proper clean myself...:rolleyes:

IMO the 400D dust removal system does not work. See my post here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2123817#post2123817

[Sprout Crumble]

FF cameras are for those who want superior performance that crop cameras cannot deliver. They cost more to manufacture and deliver performance beyond that which most consumers would use or pay for; most are happy with their crop cameras (and there are some damned good ones out there - I own and use one myself). Therefore crop cameras will remain a poor man's camera compared to FF. The Nikons you cite would be significantly more expensive if they came in FF format.

My argument is with your use of the term 'poor mans format' like the only people that buy them are those that can't afford the premium of FF but lust after one anyway or those that are too limited to appreciate it. Doesn't come across very well it has to be said.
My point is that APSC has at least as many advantages as disadvantages, irrespective of price. Its not inferior, just different. My other point is that a market exists for expensive and highly featured APSC bodies as shown by the D2Hs and the D2Xs along with much interest in an APSC 1D body (the mythical 3D perhaps). There's no excuse for an artificial cut-off point where everything above a certain price or feature-set has to be FF.

When referring to EF-S lenses I said there were some nice ones available - however they aren't of the same quality as L series glassware; they are good but because they are made for a smaller size sensor they don't need to deliver the same performance that L series give to FF sensors.They most certainly are as good. The reasons are irrelevant. Fact remains the choice is there and the results are comparable. Given pixel density, its arguable that EFS lenses have to deliver a higher performance than an L when covering an APSC sensor.

I for one am damned glad that Canon gives a damn about FF and their crop cameras outperform the opposition in just about all circumstances.

Maybe it's time for you to stop your whining about Canon and FF cameras and go buy a Nikon.Never argued about the validity of FF, just that its not the only game in town or the best for everybody. Simple premise really but I'm sure the personal comment about me being a whiny future Nikon owner sounded better in your head than it looks on screen. Common problem with the insecure. As I agree my posts here have dragged the thread off-topic a bit, its my last one on it.

On the topic, and for what its worth, I think Canon will upspec the 5D and maintain the price rather than despec and reduce it. Seems to fit better with their recent marketing and perhaps makes more sense to maximise profits in the absence of competition.
Using the 1Ds2 sensor doesn't sound right. A 1Ds3 would need a higher density sensor (22mp?) and the 400D has shown that more pixels isn't a realistic way to increase outright image quality. Increasing the 1Ds pixel density to 30D levels will likely not allow outright IQ to exceed a 16mp 5D and a little extra resolution for an extra four grand is going to win them no friends. I think the 5D enhancements will be operational, as a result of DIGIC III perhaps, rather than sensor based.

[I Simonius]

... for what its worth, I think Canon will upspec the 5D and maintain the price rather than despec and reduce it. ...

Using the 1Ds2 sensor doesn't sound right. A 1Ds3 would need a higher density sensor (22mp?) and the 400D has shown that more pixels isn't a realistic way to increase outright image quality. Increasing the 1Ds pixel density to 30D levels will likely not allow outright IQ to exceed a 16mp 5D and a little extra resolution for an extra four grand is going to win them no friends. I think the 5D enhancements will be operational, as a result of DIGIC III perhaps, rather than sensor based.

yeah upspeccing i the way to go and I for one would like more C spots on the dial like : 'A' ,'B' + 'C', save all that fiddling with mirror lock up, AEB and metering mode everytime the scenario changes (when you go from regular set scenarios)

better still replace the A_DEP, ( very handy that - maybe it wasn't accurate enough???) and the other 30D options but make them user registered or default - why not???

There's plenty of space on the dial!

I'd love to be able to switch between <RAW+one shot+spot metering+mirror lock up+2 sec timer+AEB> and <JPEG+picture style+partial metering, motordrive, auto AI Servo> and <RAW+matrix metering+one shot+AV> etc. type stuff

A 22MP FF sensor would work fine on te 1Ds, the IQ on the 400 and soon to be (no doubt) 40D at that pixel packing works fine and so the 1DsMk3 could do it, which means the 5D could and should get the 17MP sensor (anyway!)

I hope you're wrong about the specs only because I do categorically not want such a heavy beast as the 1Ds but DO want the sensor it has!

[Sprout Crumble]

There's a lot of talk about huge IQ improvements next year, but it'd be nice if Canon tidied up the operational quirks as well. I desperately want a 1D but I firmly believe it needs a physical reimagining. Size definitely needs trimming for a start and I'm hoping Canon will be the first to put an OLED not just on the back, but on top as well.

Also be nice if the whole range became more unified in operation. Silly thats there's this differentiation when 1D models are bought by just as many amateurs and huge numbers of users have a 1D and a 'lesser' model as a backup.

Even better would maybe be a 3D pair. A 3D APS-C heavy-spec heavy-duty model and a 3Ds thats similar but with the 5D sensor.
400D (£450), 40D (£800) and a FF 4D (£1300) remain affordable, 3D (£1400) and 3Ds (£2000) for the mid-range and a 1D3 (£2500) and 1D3s (£3500) at the top lacking nothing. Seems a nice range and fills the gaps currently present. Also gives everyone what they want without flooding the market and without conflicts within the range.

Just dreaming though.

[Juan Zas]

Hi,

you did forgotten the 7D !!

[I Simonius]

[electronic warning with flashing orange beacons over all the office doors]
Beep beep beep Beep beep beep Beep beep beep Beep beep beep Beep beep beep

[neon ticker tape effect]
Competition alert! - Competition alert! - Competition alert!

[loudspeaker - excessively deep male voice playing very slightly too slow]
Now hear this! Now hear this!

[message voice is annoying disinterested old lady high pitch affected 'posh' and excessively nasal voice, words spoken deliberately and slowly] -

"Fujifilm has confirmed a sucessor to its S3 Pro, the FinePix S5 Pro, which is expected to arrive in the UK early in 2007 (the protracted pronounciation of the '7' betrays her uneducated ubringing)
- Sporting 12.3 million pixel resolution, the S5 Pro is built ...." [no more is heard as it is drowned out by the office chairs all simultaeniously being banged into the desks behind as shocked workers standup involutarily form the shock reaction to this news...]


Yup folks it's true

So now Canon HAVE to up the spec or drop their trowsers - DOH - I mean Price :lol:

[Juan Zas]

Already presented at Photokina 2006, it´s over Noink 200D body

Here it´s a link, sorry it´s in spanish, but you can see photos of both bodies:

http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/fuji-s5-pro,1_2756

[I Simonius]

HURRAH!

ah sorry a bit of a non sequitor....
I was reading the new 40D thread and in there it's mentioned that there will in fact be a new 5D in feb/mar 2007 and that it will be split ointo two models, with the higher end having the 16MP sensor,

so


HURRAH!

(didn't like to copy and paste from another thread -not sure if thats a no-no)

[Cybnew]

I want it to make coffee!...ok seriously...I would like to be able to double expose IN camera...like winding a roll of film back one frame...and recording new images IN camera.

[radiohead]

HURRAH!

ah sorry a bit of a non sequitor....
I was reading the new 40D thread and in there it's mentioned that there will in fact be a new 5D in feb/mar 2007 and that it will be split ointo two models, with the higher end having the 16MP sensor,

so


HURRAH!

(didn't like to copy and paste from another thread -not sure if thats a no-no)

You're suggesting this is fact - I've not seen anything confirming this.

[I Simonius]

You're suggesting this is fact - I've not seen anything confirming this.

It IS fact

I have just confirmed it

(...that it is a rumour...in both cases;) )

This is a rumour thread after all:-)