350d overexposure problem ?

[grig]

I am sorry if this was debated in the past, I've done a quick search with no relevand results.

I have tested this issue on numerous lenses:
- tamron 28-75 f2.8 xr di
- canon 70-200 f4 L
- canon 50mm f1.8
- canon 70-300 IS
- sigma 105 f2.8 macro
- canon 18-55
etc,

my 350d overexposes most of the times. -1EV is "default" for me and on sunny days -2EV is necessary, no matter the metering mode.

It's not a MAJOR issue because i shoot RAW exclusively and I can fix this but the amount of work is pretty big after a weekend of shoting.

I would really like to know if there is a problem with my camera, or if this is an issue of this model in general or if i'm doing someting wrong. (I'm using Av mode in 90% of the time, M for night shots and P when using flash)

And another quick question:
Let's say I'm in Av mode, I'm setting f4, the camera calculates a time of 1/10. I pop-up the flash and I's gonna show me now only 1/20 maybe. Switching to P will give me 1/60 at f4 maybe. Why is the camera only shortens the exposure time at half when I pop-up the flash ? Will this issue be the same if I purchase a speedlite ?

[Curtis N]

Let's say I'm in Av mode, I'm setting f4, the camera calculates a time of 1/10. I pop-up the flash and I's gonna show me now only 1/20 maybe. Switching to P will give me 1/60 at f4 maybe. Why is the camera only shortens the exposure time at half when I pop-up the flash ? Will this issue be the same if I purchase a speedlite ?The camera meters for ambient light and flash separately. In Av or Tv modes, it won't adjust the ambient exposure when you turn your flash on. Using these modes is akin to telling the camera you want to expose for ambient light. P mode will limit the shutter speed to 1/60 (to prevent motion blur). Manual mode is usually best when using flash as your main light source. Don't worry about the meter reading - The flash will meter its power via E-TTL. The EOS Flash Bible (http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/)will help explain things.

As for your overexposure problems, it's hard to say what could be wrong, though my first guess is that your monitor is not calibrated and adjusted too bright. Upload a problem image, with exposure info, and you might get some educated guesses.

[grig]

10q for your answer. I am using mosly M when using flash. That makes me think when I'll buy a Speedlite, how will i use it's E-TTL features in M.

I'll upload some pics as soon as I'll get home, but it's not a monitor problem because I can see the overexposure from the histogram the camera shows me. :D

[Curtis N]

when I'll buy a Speedlite, how will i use it's E-TTL features in M.The camera's pop-up flash uses E-TTL (technically it's E-TTL II on the 350D). The Canon Speelites or other brands of flash units with E-TTL capability work the same way. They're just more powerful and a WHOLE LOT more versatile.

[René Damkot]

Actually, the behavior you're seeing when you pop up the flash is called NEVEC (http://eosdoc.com/manuals/flash/NEVEC/) (Negative EValuative Exposure Compensation). It' s a really annoying 'feature' Canon decided to put in. Can't be shut off either. In fact, it's one of the main reasons for using 'M' with flash....
On the overexposure: Show some images with full exif...

[cfcRebel]

When you shoot in Av or Tv with flash, pay attention to your FEC setting as well. Perhaps your FEC was set a little too high even though your EC was -1?

[Tee Why]

picture is worth a thousand words. Why don't you post an unprocessed shot with EXIF, especially metering mode.

[grig]

finaly:
these are exports from RAW at quality 6, 1200x800, full exif (i hope)

this is how it came off the camera : http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/01.JPG
this is the same with -1.1ev in DPP : http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/02.JPG
off the camera: http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/03.JPG
off the camera: http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/04.JPG
same with -1.7 in DPP: http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/05.JPG
-2ev from the camera: http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/06.JPG

are these relevant? i have a tone more :D

[cfcRebel]

finaly:
these are exports from RAW at quality 6, 1200x800, full exif (i hope)

this is how it came off the camera : http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/01.JPG
this is the same with -1.1ev in DPP : http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/02.JPG
off the camera: http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/03.JPG
off the camera: http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/04.JPG
same with -1.7 in DPP: http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/05.JPG
-2ev from the camera: http://www.geocities.com/alecu_101/test/06.JPG

are these relevant? i have a tone more :DNot much exif information was given. So I assume the first two were using flash. These were taken in close range probably? So you might want to check your FEC besides EC if you use flash and shoot in Av mode.
The highlights in all last three pictures would overexposed if EC was 0 because the fore ground and the subject's shirt were very dark. So stoping down your EC is expected.

[Curtis N]

All of those images have a lot of contrast. Sun, shade, light skin, black clothing.
They all seem properly exposed to me, given the way the camera saw them. They have small areas with blown highlights, and some dark areas.

In the first image, the black shirt which comprises a significant part of the composition contributed to making her fair skin a little on the bright side. The camera is stupid. It doesn't know what's white and what's black, it just tries to average everything to medium grey (With evaluative metering it's a bit more complicated, but the same issues are there).

When you can, use partial metering, zoom, recompose or whatever to meter on a part of the image that you want to expose to neutral. Another option is to meter on something of known reflectance, like a 18% grey card or your palm. Otherwise, only experience will help you learn to use EC to get the exposure you want.

Take a shot, check your histogram, and adjust accordingly.

Incidently, it looks lke you've reached your bandwidth limit with Geocities.

[grig]

Take a shot, check your histogram, and adjust accordingly.yeah, that's pretty much it, the LCD is pretty unreliable on a sunny day. The histogram remains the only reliable info in these conditions. I should make it the default review mode :D - summer's commin' :)

[Tee Why]

I'm going to assume that you are using Eval Metering and that flash was used in the first shot.
In the first shot, if you shot in P mode, then it uses the flash as a main source of light and the ambient light will cause it to overexpose. In Av mode it can be used for fill in. Turning down the FEC will help if you are using it mid day for fill in lighting.

In the 2nd shot, I think the dark mountain in the background fooled the metering and caused over exposure. You need to use EV compensation with dark or light backgrounds. Eval metering is really best if the background has mainly midtones but not well if it's either dark or light.

In the third shot, it looks like flash was used, so same as one.

I'm guessing without knowing the EXIF data though

[grig]

isn't the exif available? if you save the pic and click on propreties on it. no flash was used.

[Tee Why]

Nope, nothing about shooting info on properties.

[grig]

1 and 2 : 1/125s, f4, Av Mode, ISO 200, no flash, 75mm, EC 0ev
3 : 1/400, f4, Av Mode, ISO 100, no flash, 100mm, EC 0ev
4 and 5 : 1/400, f4, Av Mode, ISO 100, no flash, 104mm EC 0ev
6 : 1/1600, f4, Av Mode, ISO 100, no flash, 81 mm, EC -1.6ev

[Tee Why]

were they all evaluative metering and which focus points did you use?

[grig]

metering was eval or partial, i was swithig betwen the two a lot to try to get better results. the exif didn't really help on this ;)
and the focus point is either the right or left hand side of the center one. i rarely use the top/bottom or the far right/left ones.

[Tee Why]

All right, yeah your are right, I downloaded it and opened in ZB and I can see the exif and the histo.

On picture 1 with female portrait. The brown shirt appears to be properly exposed, as the histo. is not clipped on the left but it is on the right. So the shot was too dynamic, hence the face was over exposed. If you used partial and it metered off the brown shirt and dark jacket, I'd say that it is normal. If this was evaluative, then I'd say the metering is off a bit, maybe half a stop. Solution may have been to use ISO 100 and a fill in flash.

On pic 3 rock climber:
I think even if you used partial metering, the background is too dark and would have casued the subject to be over exposed. It's not completely over exposed as the shadow rock areas around the climber appears properly exposed. Looking at the histo again, the left is not clipped but the right side is again. So I would guess the dominating dark background fooled the metering and the metering is ok as they are all fooled by dark background.

On pic 4:
the black shirt and black backpack appears relatively well exposed as the left of the histo shows the slightest bit of clipping while the right maybe ok to just minimally clipped. I'd say if you used partial, and metered off the shirt/backpack, that it properly metered. If evaluative, maybe a bit over exposed. Once again, a bit of fill in flash would have helped brighten up the subject.

Pic 6 I'd say their might be a half to one stop of excessive compensation at -1.6 EV. At about one stop underexposed, considering that you added -1.6EV, I'd guess it overexposed by about half a stop again. A tough call for me.

What I would have like to see is a shot with mostly midtones, not clipped at either end and see how the histo looks with no EV and -1EV. If the -1EV shot looks more like an even mountain, with the peak in the middle I'd say that it is overexposing by about a stop. If the no eV shot shows the peak of the histo in the middle, I'd say it's metering properly.

Remember, some lenses (especially without a hood) may affect metering as well. Looking at those three shots, I'd guess your camera overexposes by about hald a stop. My guess.

[marathon]

i use a tamron 28-75 f2.8 on a 350D and i do notice that it tends to overexpose, so i compensate with -1EV. but just that lens. the kit lens and 50mm 1.8 are fine.

[grig]

Tee Why: thanks a lot. Partial Metering seems to be the right option for me. I just have to be careful when I compose, to get the area I'm interested in exposing right in the circle :D
I was concerned because summer is comming and these situations will happen more and more.

marathon: These are 3 lenses that I have used a lot until now, the tamron especialy. Not, with a lot of outside shooting, the 70-200 f4 will become my main lens.

I really hope that using Partial metering and a max of -1 EV I'll be able to get good results and shorten the post processing time. I really don't have as much time as before to post process. Minor adjustments in DPP (brightness, sharpness and contrast), export and a lot of DELETES before that :D

[Tee Why]

I really would try taking a midtone rich shot and see how the camera meters first.
I'm assuming you are using a hood, and you may want to try it without UV filters, if you are using any, as I've heard of some stating that the filter threw off the metering.
As long as you aren't clipping on the right, slight over exposure to the right maybe beneficial as you "expose to the right." As long as you aren't clipping on either side, it maybe better to expose to the right (overexpose) and in RAW bring back the details. If you expose to the left and try to bring out details, you may often just get noise instead rather than detail.

I've never seriously shot film, but in the film days, they said expose for the dark and bring back the highlights in developing. But in digital era, it's expose for the highlights and use processing to bring back the details from the dark areas.

As for metering, as long as the scene is uniformly lit, I use evaluative. If I only care about the center subject, I often go to partial or spot metering. The XT unforunately doesn't offer that. If you are shooting under similar lighting siutation, take your first shot, chimp the histogram to check your exposure, make any adjustments, then just start shooting. Once your shooting environment (lighting) changes, take a shot, chimp to check the exposure via the histo. make any adjustments and then just fire away. Repeat process till card is full or shooting finger cramsps up.

[Big Hands]

What is the contrast set at in the camera's parameters? Seems way too high to me.

It appears to me that you are someone that has no fear of trying to get things adjusted to your liking and are not afraid to get under the hood and tinker a bit. Is it possible that you have something mal-adjusted? I can see getting some shots like this in manual in difficult situations, but you are saying that this happens quite often. Considered resetting back to defaults and starting over?

Regards,
Jeff

[grig]

I think a zero or lower contrast setting, partial metering and a bit more care will do it for me :D
anyway, it's no big deal doing a -1 in DPP.

and i'll have to learn to use that fill flash. That sould really solve my problems :D

10x a lot guys, take care