Probability of 10D's autofocus failure

[lightandlife]

Now I have a choice between buying a 10D for $1350 on line from a reliable company and paying full price at a local store.

Does anybody have an idea what the probability of autofocus failure of 10Ds sold in America?

1 in 100?
1 in 10?
1 in 2?

Your answer would be a great help, as there is no statistics on this issue. I would definitely get one, but I may have to take a chance.

[defordphoto]

I highly doubt there are many of the old cameras around that had that issue when it was first released. You just don't read about it anymore, except from people that don't know what they're doing and 'think' they have an issue.

Go buy it and don't worry about it.

[lightandlife]

Ten days ago I tried to buy one in Hong Kong. I tested it for a week and eventually returned it due to the front focusing problem. I tested a second unit the camera shop offered and it failed the same way. After viewing a dozen pictures, the shop manager agreed and gave me a full refund. When there was an exhibition of Canon cameras, I tested two units on the spot. One was fine, but the other was not. I assume that perhaps Hong Kong did not have a good batch.

Now I am in America and want to get one. I hope Canon is sending good 10Ds to America. I did hear about autofocusing problem in America also. I just don't know its extent or the probability of getting a lemon here.

[Belmondo]

It stands to reason that the people with the problem cameras are going to be more vocal than the much larger (I assume) group who never experienced any trouble at all.

I fall into the latter group. My 10D has been absolutely flawless, including some difficult shooting environments---low light, moving subject, etc.

Nonetheless, I opted to buy it from a well-established regional retailer instead of going online. My reasoning was twofold:
1. If there's a problem, I don't have the hassle of packing it up and shipping off the some mail-order house in hopes that they'll be interested enough to help me with a problem.
2. (A much smaller concern) If we don't support the local brick and mortar retailers, they will eventually go away. Then where will we go to look at these things before we buy? There's a small ethical problem in my mind of asking a dealer to allow someone to inspect, handle, test, and otherwise familiarize themselves with an item when that buyer has full intentions of buying the item elsewhere----online, out-of-state, and from someone who very often doesn't have a storefront. We love to grouse about disreputable sellers, but buyers who waste the time and resources of local dealers are no less honest. I'm sure if you walked into a local camera store and asked to look at an item of merchandise that the dealer has invested his own money into for the purpose of selling at a profit, and if you told him there was no likelihood at all of you purchasing it from him (her), I'm sure you would be invited to rapidly depart through the same door you came in through.

Whoops. How did I get started on this?

[lightandlife]

You make a lot of sense.

For the same reason, I visited a local store, Best Buy, yesterday and discovered that they do no stock 10Ds. Today I called a local CompUSA. Neither do they sotck 10Ds. Perhaps I should visit a store in another city. Thanks for your input.

[Belmondo]

Some Circuit City stores have them, although not all of them. I found one in Reno, NV, and Santa Clara, CA, although not in our local CC in Palm Desert. Happy hunting.

[Vegas Poboy]

Not sure of where everyone else is looking but here in Las Vegas I had only seen the 10D @ local camera shops and our local Fry's Electronic retailer. I pretty much choose one of our camera shops due to the low volume that they recieve and I wanted to build a reliable friendship for future purchases. They tend to work with you on price once they see you visit them often.

[BobbyC]

belmondo wrote:
but buyers who waste the time and resources of local dealers are no less honest.

How about when I go look at a camera or some other item and then find out they are selling it for anywhere from 30%-60% more than someone like B&H. (They are a real store BTW). Who's time was wasted then?

I'm all for keeping my money local, but I am not going to be financially raped just to do so. And the "we have someone here that is knowledgable to talk to" thing is just not true in most cases. Here in my town, the "helpful salesman" is usually nothing more than some dude that thinks he is cool cause he works in a camera store and thinks he must show everyone that walks in the door that he knows more about "takin pitchers" than they do.

I'm not saying all of them are like that, but the one really true pro store here in my town, does have some good people there, they are just way too expensive. I buy there when I'm in a bind, but that's about it.

Sorry for the rant.
Bobby

[scottbergerphoto]

The distinction between brick and mortar and online, is really a thing of the past. There are extremely reliable retailers that also sell online. I always buy from Band H, http://www.bandphotovideo.com, or JandR, http://www.jr.com. They are both retail stores with online sales as well. Each has solid return policies and knowledgeable staff. Their prices are the best I've found from reliable sellers. I have returned camera bodies without problems. I'll pay a few extra dollars to sleep better at night. My 2c.

[Belmondo]

You're right, of course. But I'm not talking about businesses like B&H, J&R, or locally for me, Samy's. In fact, Canoga Camera is one of my favorite places to shop, both in person and online. Their sales staff is personable and knowledgable, and their prices are generally very good.

I'm talking about the online operators who don't operate a storefront business. They operate out of warehouses, mini-storage lockers, garages, and maybe even out of the backs of their cars. In some cases, these people don't even stock merchandise---they wait until they have a firm pre-paid order, then go buy it on the grey market.

The big operations like B&H have gotten that way because they offer a good balance between service, selection, and price. They deserve their prominent position in the markeptlace.

Just remember, though, if you buy all your big ticket items out of the area, eventually your local sources for lesser purchases will dry up. Camera stores can't stay in business if all they're doing is demonstrating cameras and selling lesser accessories. They are a resource, and we have to keep that in mind.

Incidentally, I don't necessarily consider the electronic superstores as 'local.' Their salespeople are rarely well informed, and their selection is usually quite limited. I'm really talking about honest-to-goodness camera stores.

It's hard to argue against saving a hundred bucks or more when buying a digital SLR bodyor a high-end lens, and the allure of online shopping in that circumstance is clear. Add to that the additional savings of not paying sales tax, and you've got yourself a no-brainer, I suppose.

Just remember those situations when you might need an 82mm circular polarizer, a gray card, or any other somewhat obscure photography-related item; try getting those at Best Buy, Circuit City, or Fry's. If those are the only 'local' photography stores, however, then you're position is a lot more defensible.

Thanks for your two cents worth.

[lightandlife]

I generally agree with Belmondo that using a local store to have hands on experience, taking up their time, and then buying on-line is unethical.

While in Hong Kong, I was able to take a look at 10D and view a couple of shots. I bought one then and there, but it had the front focusing problem. After the manager personally tried a second unit and recognizing the autofocus problem, he gave me a refund. I did not have the guts to try a third unit. Perhaps they had early models.

Local camera shops do not carry 10Ds, so I can't even try one in my town. Of course, I can order one through a local store, but what is the point?

I think the market works. Local shops provide hands on experience but charge a little more than online shops that offer no such service. If the extra premium they charge is right, both types will survive in the long run. If consumers are not happy, they will not come back. And most businesses depends on repeat customers in order to survive.

B&H as well as a few reputable stores do not have 10Ds in stock at present. I am getting one through Adorama.

Thanks a lot for your taking the trouble to consider my question.

[martcol]

First point: if the probability is 1:1000 and you get the one, then odds don't mean a great deal. I think that my camera focuses fine and I must have been one of the first people to get one in the UK. I went through the "oh my god" phase and photographed anything with straight lines in it, at 45 deg. etc. Sometimes things were badly focussed but that was probably due to the anxious tremor!

I think the worse problem with the 10D is I'm plagued with dust but I am even learning to live with that. I also took my first camera back because it had hot pixels in the Display (not the sensor). Now I've just taken my grip back because the buttons stopped working. After all that, I still think my 10D is fabulous!

I am really glad that I bought mine in a local dealer. It cost me £50.00 extra than what I might have paid on the net at the time. But the staff in the store have been excellent especially, when I have had difficulties.

Martin.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

Dear lightandlife,
Your post has no fair chance to give you a 100% reliable answer to your query. Even if everyone in the world who owns a 10D is a member on this board, their advice is not gonna affect your decision.
If one out of 100 people say they had a problem, then you'll think that "I might be the second one to have a problem". And if 1 out of 100 had a good 10D, then maybe you'll be number 100 to have a bad 10D.

My advice:
1- Buy a 10D.
2- Don't buy it online, in case you really get a bad 10D.
3- Make sure you're getting 100% money back guarantee, and no restocking fee or whatnot.
4- When and if you buy it, test it for at least 2 weeks before you make your final decision to return or keep it.

I bought mine without a money back guarantee from the Camera Shop in Bryn Mawr, PA, because:
1- I just couldn't believe that a company like Canon would knowingly sell a bad product.
2- I didn't want the online deals, just in case, and they were the only store to stock it.
3- People in a store see you, and want to sell you lenses and stuff, so you have to have a good camera, right?
I was frustrated when I first saw the pictures, because after I heard about the so-called 'focus issues', and after moving from a tack-sharp Sony, I thought I was number 100 (unlucky owner). But then, I was expecting marvellous pictures without having to think a lot.
I admit that I still think that the Sony was sharper, but I could not manipulate the same picture taken by a Sony, the way I could with the 10D. But the sharpness wasn't reaally that noticeable
Two weeks later, try to convince me to leave my camera home before I go anywhere!! No regrets. Sorry about the long post.

[Vegas Poboy]

Hey, Don't get me wrong I don't have the cash to always support my local retailer. I hate paying state taxes and the 25% markup but this was the one purchase that I've been preparing for since the PMA show and when I was ready no reliable online retailer had it in stock. Plus with all of the issues on Focusing I wanted someone to deal with ASAP not with a RMA number and wait a week or two. Personally I make most of my purchases from B&H and use Samy's as a backup since they're so close to Vegas.

[bluebomberx]

In all honesty, I would say zero. AF failure, as in failure to move the lens elements, would be the responsibility of the AF motor found in every lens for Canon EOS cameras. If you are refering to the accuracy of the AF, I'm sure you will get answers all over the charts. I've had mine since mid-March and never had a problem with it.