Need a Hobby-Is the Way to Go?

[Bmosbacker]

I don't know how many are like me but I have spent the majority of my life working and achieving. Being productive and hopefully useful to others is a blessing so I am not complaining.

However, I have been so busy for so long that I have never taken the time to develop a hobby. With that in mind, I am considering photography as a hobby. Here are my basic reasons (correct me if I am wrong):

Can be done virtually anywhere, anytime (Indoor and outdoor)
Combines technical know how and creativity
The results can be shared with others
Can be done in conjunction with other normal activities: vacations, trips, business, etc.
Offers endless variety of subject matter, equippment, etc.With that in mind, if I decide to take up photography there are at least two things I must address:

Learning the technical side of photography--I have to admit that discussions of focal lengths, etc., get confusing. :D
Buying the right camera and accessories.I want a camera that will be flexible and capable enough to allow me to grow, give me opportunities to try new techniques, but not so expensive as to make it unwise and impractical for a beginning "photographer".

After reading several reviews, I am considering the Canon EOS 350D/Digital Rebel XT. Would that be a good choice? Also, should I purchase it with the standard lense or just the body and buy a different lense and if so, what do you recommend?

I'd love advice and direction. Thanks in advance.

[PeaPicker]

What kind of credit card do you have? :)

[PeaPicker]

Just kidding.
Welcome to the form.
The XT and a few months on this forum and you will love it. :)

[Bmosbacker]

I have a good size check coming in from a book being published. I have some money to spend, but I'm just starting out so I want to be wise. Any suggestions?


What kind of credit card do you have? :)

[DocFrankenstein]

I have a good size check coming in from a book being published. I have some money to spend, but I'm just starting out so I want to be wise. Any suggestions?
XT and a non zoom 35mm f/2 lens

It will get expensive fast.

EDIT: A lot of people recommend zooms - that's the way manufacturers do their stuff today. But IMO learning should always be done one thing at a time. With a non-zoom lens you have one thing less to worry about when taking pictures.

[Gizmo1985]

Rebel XT is a good choice.

I reccommend getting the kit lense first and shoot a month with it to get the feel of the camera and photography as a whole.

Then start expanding into new lenses and flashes.

[cjm]

Rebel XT is a good choice.

I reccommend getting the kit lense first and shoot a month with it to get the feel of the camera and photography as a whole.

Then start expanding into new lenses and flashes. Exactly what I would have said! Get the Canon Rebel XT and Kit lens, 1 or 2 gig memory card and just take off. All of use started on something and the XT with the Kit Lens I can't think of any better camera to start off on.

To learn? Go to that big book lending place and take out as many photography books you think you can read in 3 weeks. Also come here and read, read read.

Also if buying the XT check this website out, http://photoworkshop.com/canon/.

Before I really got serious about photography I used to collect Banknotes/Paper Money and or Hockey cards from before 1970. This is a whole lot less stress and rewarding I find.

[GeneMan88]

Welcome to the forum. I think your choice of the Rebel XT is a good start. Learning the technical aspects of photography will be your first challenge, but your next one will be learning about post processing software such as Photoshop. PP software is basically like having a darkroom, but on you computer. Photos can be taken straight from camera to print, but tweaking with PP software can make your photos "pop". Photography is a great hobby, and with digital cameras, it's a lot easier to learn how to use dSLRs.

[Mitcon]

I would also say the 350D/XT with the kit lens. A very able little camera that can be used straight up and also 'grow' with. The kit lens is quite a good little lens for what it's really worth and can produce quite good results. Photography is certainly all the things you listed. It can be as simple or complicated as you chose really. It's not cheap per say, but it can be done within almost any budget limitations, as long as you learn to work within your (and the equipments) limitations.

Photography is many things, it's different for alot of people. Mostly it's about communication, and there is a difference between taking an image and creating one. Photography is something that is hard to 'out-grow' as the only real limitation to what you can do is your own imagination and how much you limit it.

Read/borrow books/mags on SLR's, it doesn't have to be digital SLR's the principles of photography, light and exposure are all the same. I wouldn't advise any expensive lenses untill you have an intended type of shooting planed. No point buying that super telephoto if you end up liking wide or macro work. Start small, buy the best you can (within your budgets) enjoy and don't look back. The biggest thing is don't try to hard with photography, learn to enjoy it instead of making hardwork/a job of it and it will come to you that much easier.

This forum is also a great pleace to learn and share, many great people here more than willing to help in whatever ways they can. Most of all, just make sure you enjoy what you do :D

[Bmosbacker]

Thank you for the advice and especially for the web site link: Looks like an excellent resource!

Exactly what I would have said! Get the Canon Rebel XT and Kit lens, 1 or 2 gig memory card and just take off. All of use started on something and the XT with the Kit Lens I can't think of any better camera to start off on.

To learn? Go to that big book lending place and take out as many photography books you think you can read in 3 weeks. Also come here and read, read read.

Also if buying the XT check this website out, http://photoworkshop.com/canon/.

Before I really got serious about photography I used to collect Banknotes/Paper Money and or Hockey cards from before 1970. This is a whole lot less stress and rewarding I find.

[Bmosbacker]

GeneMan and Mitcon,
Thanks for the advice. My guess is that I will enjoy macro photography the most, but it will be hard to resist the temptation to buy a super telephoto lense!

[RikWriter]

OT, but what sort of book did you write?

[shutterghost]

+1 for the Rebel XT (just chip in the extra bit of money for a black one, you won't regret it). As for lenses, I would advise the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6. It's somewhat pricey at 500 or so bucks but you will be set for quite a long time. Also as far as I can see, the demand for the lens is there. Which means selling it shouldn't be a problem.

Rebels are neat cameras that can do a lot of things. Don't mind those few who walk around with 5D's having no idea how to shoot. I guarantee that you will appreciate those higher end cameras once you master what the rebel has to offer.

Another tip, tread carefully. It's very, veeerrry easy to spend outrageous amounts of money in a relatively short amount of time. If you find yourself frustrated, it's easier cut your losses by backing out with an XT body and a lens such as the 17-85 than really anything else.

Welp, I hope photo works out for you, it's a very fun hobby.

[Bmosbacker]

RikWriter, I am the contributing author of a textbook on school business management. Addresses concepts such as price elasticity, marginal return on investment, strategic budgeting, stewardship, etc.

[AeroSmith]

XT and a non zoom 35mm f/2 lens

It will get expensive fast.

EDIT: A lot of people recommend zooms - that's the way manufacturers do their stuff today. But IMO learning should always be done one thing at a time. With a non-zoom lens you have one thing less to worry about when taking pictures.

That's good advice.

[willg]

you an get a 20d for a very good price now that the 30d has come out.

[Bmosbacker]

Willg,
What would be the advantage for me in buying the 20d and what is the basic difference? Sorry to post a "newbie" question, but I am one. :-)

[yamezbond]

I got the 20D on an ebay deal a month ago, and like PeaPicker said, a few months on this forum and you start enjoy your Rebel XT or wheatever you purchase out there.
I believe it depend on the budget, I got my 20D because of lot of good reviews and recomendations from my friend that has that camera.
I did this for fun not for money, and believe me this is really fun, I enjoy every picture I take to my family and when I'm out there.

[Headcase650]

Sense you have some flexability on budget I would recommend the Rebel XT, but skip the kit lens and pick up the 18-50 f2.8 ex sigma. Its the same focal length as the kit but gives you a larger constant 2.8 aperture. This will give you a great starter lens that sharp, fast and a keeper. The kits shortcummings will show up in your first few months and you will want something better anyway. Within a few months you will find out what kind of lens you will need next to compliment your first lens. Wider, longer, faster etc.

Next I would get photoshop elements 4 and "The Photoshop Elements 4 Book for Digital Photographers" by Scott Kelby. Its a great book, easy to read and straight forward.

The best advice as given above is to read as much as you can, everything from photography basics exposure books, magazines, internet forums, the canon digital learning center is great, read them all not just the one for the rebel xt, nearly all the tips will work from one camera to the other.

If you like technical and creative hand in hand then you will really love photography, just be prepaired for the never ending money pit it becomes. Every thing from lenses, flash gun, remotes, tripods. You will eventually find yourself wanting everything, Its an addiction.

[willg]

Willg,
What would be the advantage for me in buying the 20d and what is the basic difference? Sorry to post a "newbie" question, but I am one. :-)

at first you will notice a larger viewfinder, more comfortable grip, very solid build quality (not a ticket to drop it though :)), and the controls in my opinion are easier to use on the cameras with the control wheel. Eventually you will take advantage of the better focusing, and you may or may not use the faster frame rate...I use a 5d which is only 3 frames per second but for what I shoot its fine, but 5 fps is very nice.

[cyclone]

I am the contributing author of a textbook on school business management. Addresses concepts such as price elasticity, marginal return on investment, strategic budgeting, stewardship, etc.
My guess is that I will enjoy macro photography the most
Run everyone, we have an economist in our midst! And a microeconomist at that!

Welcome to the forum. In regards to a XT or 20D, the image quality will be similar. The 20D has a better build quality, and a few extra features. However, the main difference will be the feel of the camera and controls. The XT tends to be on the small side, and may be harder to use for a bigger person. I would also recommend starting out slow and seeing what you want to get into. You can spend a lot of money fast in this hobby.

[corterlifecrisis]

I'd agree with the non zoom as well. You need to learn composition, and a prime will

a) teach you to move around for your shots

b) get you better image quality for your money

c) allow you to learn more from experience

There's something to be learned from reading a book about photography, to learn the camera and principals of exposure. But there's 10X more to be said about getting out, shooting, and learning from your shots and experiences. I shot a 50mm for the first year I had my camera, and I think it was in this time i learned to move around for my shots, to look at things different, and to realize unique composition.

the 35mm f/2 is a great first choice, as is the 50 1.8. I'd reccomend always starting with the 50mm even if you get the kit lens, even if you get a 35, even if you get a 600 L, the 50 is a staple lens and offers, in my oppinion, the best quality for the least amount of money.

this is not so much a gear list as a technique suggestion, but i hope i helped. You'll get tons of help here, you started out great with forum choice!

[wrangler]

RikWriter, I am the contributing author of a textbook on school business management. Addresses concepts such as price elasticity, marginal return on investment, strategic budgeting, stewardship, etc.

That sort of background is going to come in very handy when entering the hobby of photography. Most of us just want and spend.....good luck..

[Lord_Malone]

My wife calls photography one of my "expensive hobbies". Be prepared to spend some cash, and welcome to the forum. ;)

[peterdoomen]

I've had a few Canon camera in my hands, ranging from the Rebel/300/XT to the 1-series... Apart from technical aspects, I must say the 20D strikes the right balance between "quality of feel" and price. It's a big difference between the Rebel and the 20D, but not a big difference between the 1-series and the 20D, especially when you have the (optional) grip.

On the other hand, it's not a big difference in price from the Rebel and the 20D, but between the 20D and the 1-series, there's enough money to get a nice pair of lenses.

So I also think the 20D combined with a few "standard" lenses is a good start for a serious amateur. I'm not so sure about the prime thing, however. While having a fast prime certainly is an advantage, and primes can teach you a lot about composition, the versatility of a good zoom is also a factor. With or without zoom, composition is always one thing to worry about. With a prime, you only have "foot zoom". With a zoom, you have both ways of achieving the same thing.

Depending on what you want to photograph, you'll at least want:
- a midrange zoom (min focal length below 50, max focal length above)
- a wide angle, if you want to take pictures of buildings/landscapes
- a moderate tele, for outside or detail photography
- a macro lens, if you want to specialise in that
- a fast prime, for low light/portraits

You don't need to start with all of these. Many beginners start with only one lens, the kit lens. But you can also buy a 20D body and a separate lens, like the Standard Tammy (Tamron 28-75) or its Sigma counterpart.

Just my take on it.

P.

[Mitcon]

Hmmm, give thought to your purchase and shop around if you are thinking of going for the 20D, for me where I am I got the 30D for less than the 20D lol.

[Az2Africa]

RikWriter, I am the contributing author of a textbook on school business management. Addresses concepts such as price elasticity, marginal return on investment, strategic budgeting, stewardship, etc.

:confused: :rolleyes: :lol: If you can understand that stuff, then camera stuff should be a breeze !! Welcome to POTN. I would get the XT w/kit lens and just jump in.

[Bob_A]

Since you say you are a beginner, I'd have to go totally against what everyone else has said to you so far and recommend that you get something like a Powershot S3 instead of going with a DSLR. There isn't a "technique" that you can learn on a DSLR that you can't learn on the S3.

When you get into the hobby enough that you need very low noise and interchangeable lenses then go for a DSLR at that time. Even then you'll probably still want to keep the S3 for vacations when you don't want to lug a big bag of gear around.

[Curtis N]

Buy either the RebelXT or 20D. Handle both cameras, get a feel for how the controls work, and make your decision based on what feels better in your hands and the way the controls work. The features and capabilites are very similar but the user interface is quite different.

Get the 18-55 kit lens. Others have made some valid points about primes, and you'll soon want a zoom lens with more reach, but the kit lens is a great value and no other wide-angle available comes close in price. I have several lenses but still use the kit lens quite a bit. You'll soon learn what kind of photography you enjoy most, and can add to your lens collection accordingly.

Get a flash unit. Get a good one. If you can't afford a 580EX, consider the Sigma EF-500 DG Super.

Save some budget for accessories. A lot of little things add up, like a good tripod, remote shutter, CF cards, extra batteries, card reader for your computer, etc.

Welcome to POTN! Enjoy your new hobby, and post some shots here when you can!

[racketman]

a hobby that opens your eyes too. Think about making a website to give a focus to your work.
350D is an excellent choice.

350D v 20D size if interested:

http://mk23.image.pbase.com/o4/33/541333/1/54114627.20D350Dfront.jpg

[StevenRaith]

Hmm. Now you see I am going to disagree with you, Bob ;)

I started off with a Fuji S5500, as I couldn't afford a dSLR, although a dSLR was what I wanted, big time.

I went to a StockHatch day at Brands [where a mutual friend was racing his Peugot 205 GTi] and was hooked imediately - I had a good mate helping me with setting the controls and exposure correctly.

within an hour, however, I discovered that:
The viewfinder was atrocious and nigh on useless compared to any SLR, digital or otherwise
Lag was atrocious - and waiting a second for it to process shots meant I had to shoot 'ahead' of a subject - a PITA when trying to take panning shots or catch a car getting air as it rises over the crest on the approach to Druids hairpin
Digital zoom control is horrible. You are limited to 'stpes' which makes framing a complete pain.

Other things that wound me up later were the terribly poor manual focus controls, lack of a bulb mode [for shooting lightning], and other foibles that wouldn't affect someone wanting a creative P+S, but pissed me off because i had bigger ideas :D

A creative P+S is a good thing if you genuinely don't know if you'll enjoy photography...but if I had the money and the choice at the time, I would have had a 350D [or even my curent 300D] without any doubts - you simply get so many more options, it reacts quicker, you have a much better veiwfinder [regardless of the comments about it not being as good as a 20D finder, it's still better than a bloody LCD viewfinder!] and there is proper, full control over it.

Just my 2ps worth :)

[PeaPicker]

Whatever you get.
This forum is the best place to learn anything and everything about photography.
Period. :D

About the credit card. I meant "Max Limit" not "Kind" :) :)

[willg]

a hobby that opens your eyes too. Think about making a website to give a focus to your work.
350D is an excellent choice.

350D v 20D size if interested:

http://mk23.image.pbase.com/o4/33/541333/1/54114627.20D350Dfront.jpg

you reminded me of this pic
http://spideronthefloor.com/upload/files/5dxt.jpg

[blueM]

Go for the DSLR. I spent a good bit of time looking at high end P&S cameras before opting for my 20D. One of my original concerns was the intimidation factor of having to learn Photoshop. Following the threads in this forum has helped my learn the basics. Long way to go but the great thing about digital is the learning is more or less free. There are lots of very knowledgable photographers on the forum who are more than willing to share their expertise.
On the question about which camera to consider, go somewhere where you can get your hands on each of your choices. I struggled a bit with the usual XT vs 20D question until I had the opportunity to handle each. The decision was easy then.
Good luck with your decision making

[Bmosbacker]

Thanks to everyone for outstanding assistance and advice. I will do a bit more studying (and a lot of lobbying of the wife) before making my purchase. :-) I'll be back with more questions. Thanks again.

[Dorman]

Bmosbacker,

You've been given alot of great advice already, there really is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. Perhaps while you're doing your studying/research you should download a copy of the 350D/Rebel XT instruction manual and read through it? If you read through that and maybe pick up a general book about photography it might give you a better undertanding of some of the recommendations - why people recommend certain lenses and focal lengths, etc.

Do you have any previous background in photography at all? Even if it's just been snapshots during vacations or parties up until now it'll give you an indication of what you like to shoot.

In terms of a camera body I don't think you can go wrong with the Rebel XT, I'm happy with mine but will upgrade someday. It will take you from shooting automatic to full manual (much recommended). Just my two cents but I would skip the 18-55 kit lens and go with a better quality and more versatile lens to give you a feel about what focal range suits your style. Perhaps the Canon 17-85 IS USM or the Sigma 17-70 DC. As others have suggested, I'd pick up the 50 1.8 MkII - it's an essential "learning lens" ;)

[glowie]

Go ballistics and get yourself an EOS-1Ds Mark II and an EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM glass

You'll thank me forever :twisted:

[Dunnomuch]

I think the Rebel XT/350D is a good beginner's choice, as well as a 20D. Note that by saying this I don't mean users of these cameras are beginners. It's just that these cameras are so easy to use and while the rebel xt is lighter and smaller, some prefer something made for bigger hands. The 20D is also a LOT easier to operate on the fly.

Here is a link that I think deserves mention here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=101616

It is a good read and a lot of forummers here have shared their reasons for their passion. Understanding the reasons why you're into this hobby will help a lot in deciding how much you would like to spend. I've had purchase dilemmas, but not so big that I've had to ask over and over again on forums. I'd say the main reason is being comfortable with yourself about what you buy and how you approach this hobby. Being a gearhead isn't necessarily a bad thing. Gearheads who chase the latest and the greatest eventually sell their used equipment to those who could not afford new gear, and this lets the more budget conscious enjoy their hobby too.

Learning with a kit lens helped me decide what I needed, and to be honest, nearly half of my kit was bought purely for the sheer enjoyment of using it. I had the 85 prime and 135 prime long before my 70-200IS, but they show me different aspects of photography, and force me to develop different skills.

With a prime I develop an eye for what would look good in my frame at a fixed distance, and I am forced to notice things I may not notice if I had a zoom lens. I also have to change my position relative to my subject more with a prime. Many get stuck in the habit of standing still and zooming, resulting in a similar look for all their photos. A zoom forces me to learn to adapt to my environment. Standing in a crowd I have to zoom instead of walk, and longer focal lengths means I have to train myself to be able to shoot with a better stance for less handshake. I don't want to get into the zoom vs. prime sharpness and IQ debate because that's not what this thread is about. If you're looking at lenses from a beginner's point of view, i'd say buy a cheap prime like the 50 f1.8, and a 3rd party zoom if funds are tight. You will have almost as much fun as someone with top shelf equipment. As you discover what you like and what you need, you will be more sure of what you want to get.

Cheers

Welcome to the hobby. It's a beautiful hobby because you can take years doing it and still not learn everything there is to learn.

[J Rabin]

Any suggestions?
How old are you? May seem silly, but I find the dRebel350/XT have too small a viewfinder at my age. If you're over 45+ buy a body like a 20D, even if it is used.
Go to a camera shop. Put an XT (small VF), Canon 20D (very decent for dSLR), Nikon D70 (tunnel VF), Nikon D200 (very nice VF) up to your eyes. Feel the grip comfort. Pick one. Use it a lot.
They all take good photos and all have good lenses.
Jack

[Bob_A]

Hmm. Now you see I am going to disagree with you, Bob ;)

I started off with a Fuji S5500, as I couldn't afford a dSLR, although a dSLR was what I wanted, big time.

I went to a StockHatch day at Brands [where a mutual friend was racing his Peugot 205 GTi] and was hooked imediately - I had a good mate helping me with setting the controls and exposure correctly.

within an hour, however, I discovered that:
The viewfinder was atrocious and nigh on useless compared to any SLR, digital or otherwise
Lag was atrocious - and waiting a second for it to process shots meant I had to shoot 'ahead' of a subject - a PITA when trying to take panning shots or catch a car getting air as it rises over the crest on the approach to Druids hairpin
Digital zoom control is horrible. You are limited to 'stpes' which makes framing a complete pain.

Other things that wound me up later were the terribly poor manual focus controls, lack of a bulb mode [for shooting lightning], and other foibles that wouldn't affect someone wanting a creative P+S, but pissed me off because i had bigger ideas :D

A creative P+S is a good thing if you genuinely don't know if you'll enjoy photography...but if I had the money and the choice at the time, I would have had a 350D [or even my curent 300D] without any doubts - you simply get so many more options, it reacts quicker, you have a much better veiwfinder [regardless of the comments about it not being as good as a 20D finder, it's still better than a bloody LCD viewfinder!] and there is proper, full control over it.

Just my 2ps worth :)

I've used an SLR, and only an SLR for the past 30 years. However, taking the DSLR leap is a big commitment. Lenses and accessories are expensive, and there is a lot of mass and volume to lug around, which can really turn some people off.

It's frustrating to me when a complete newbie posts that he wants to try his hand at this hobby and the first thing everyone advises him to do is to get a DSLR ... which isn't necessarily the best tool for everyone. And a camera is just that, a tool. I've seen images on this forum taken by people with a G-series P&S that are breathtaking, which thankfully shows that it's the person pushing the shutter release that makes the biggest impact on how the final product turns out.

I agree with your assessment though that a P&S is the wrong tool for motorsports. However there have been a few times when I wish that I was carrying a nice high end P&S instead of my SLR gear for vacations, but I can't convince my wife that she needs one :lol: .

[StevenRaith]

You have a good point, and I guess I am drawing from my own experience pretty heavily, and photography is something I have had no experience in, but have badly wanted to get into for a few years now but never had the money until I got the Fuji.

FWIW, I suggested to a chap on the Other Forum I used to get a Fuji S5600, as he wanted to try his hand at snapping, but I'm guessing he in the same boat as me because he has had the camera a couple of weeks and is finding similar negaives as I did - annoyed by digital zoom/focus control, lag, poor high ISO noise control, crappy arpeture adjustment etc

It does depend on how serious you are I guess - but if you have the money, I can't help thinking that a bottom end dSLR with a couple of very different lenses [preferably a kit/wide zoom lense, a prime, and a long-ish zoom] gives you the best chance of being able to try everything you can and see what turns you on. They don't even have to be very good lenses. I wouldn't recommend going out and spending £3000 on L glass, but if you play with te kit lense and enjoy it, but find yourself wanting more reach, then £150 on a basic 70-300 will let you see if you have a use for a longer lense, then you can save up for something chunkier like the Sigma 70-200 F2.8 :cool:

My 2ps worth again :) it's probably not the best way of going about it, but it has worked for me. I covet thy 70-200 F2.8 from anyone who has one ;)

[busterboy]

My wife calls photography one of my "expensive hobbies". Be prepared to spend some cash, and welcome to the forum. ;)


My wife doesn't know how much my gear costs because I am a coward and dare not tell her..:(






jk/ ;)


Welcome to the forums.:D

[StevenRaith]

Ah, the benefitys of being young, free, single.....and skint ;)

[Nicky D]

First off welcome to the group. My question for you is what kind of experience with photography do you have? Have you been snapping pictures for years and are now ready to get into it as a hobby? I have been taking pictures for a number of years now and have found that I wanted more out of my equipment, but this is only because I knew what my experiences were and what my goals were to become. So what I would recommend is for you to evaluate what you are looking to get out of photography. It can be a very expensive hobby. I would also recommend to try and rent equipmet if you can, take what you have read here and see if you can get your hands on some of the equipment mentioned and see how you like it. Do not forget that you also have to take into account that after you take the picture you will need to post process the pictures to get your finished picture. All of this can be very time consuming, and software will add to your projected budget. Good luck and let us know what you decide to go with.

[dpastern]

Well, a few words of what I consider solid advice.

1. Don't worry too much about the technical side of photography at this point of time. Stick the camera in P mode (Program, or Auto mode) and use it as a glorified point and shoot. Most of the time the exposure will come out OK. This will give you time (without pressure) to get used to the feel of the camera, getting used to framing and eyeing up potential shots etc.

2. As others have suggested, read books. The local library is a very good place to start, and it's cheap.

3. Start with the kits lens - there's no shame in it. Get used to it, get used to photography and from there you can decide what you want to do.

4. Read the User Guide. Several times. Trust me, if you don't, you'll seriously have issues using your new camera to its fullest. You might not want to do all the fancy things straight away, but you'll at least understand what does what, and what you do need, and what you don't need [yet].

5. Go out and play with the camera in a store first. The 350D is TINY. Too tiny for my liking. It might be too tiny for you as well. A 2nd hand 10D is a good choice as well.

6. Take lots of shots. Shoot, shoot and more shoot. Digital really is nice, grab a 2gb card and fire away. The more you practice, the more you'll learn, and the better you'll get [if you apply yourself that is].

7. Join a local photography club [not a necessity].

8. Read P.O.T.N, preferably daily, you'll always learn something new, and it's a pretty good community.

That's about all I can think of.

Dave

[kram]

Bmosbacker,

a. if you have not been into photography at all, I would experiment with a cheap setup first for a few months - a film camera or a good low MP but versatile P&S.

b. If you have decided you are interested in photography, decide on a body you wont outgrow too fast. I rate the Drebel and Drebel XT as outgrowable bodies. The 20D is a good option if you can get it.

c. Good lenses cost money - no two ways around it. Some really a lot and some still a lot. And when you start looking at each need, you will look at a new lens. Go for a cheap 50/1.8 lens as the first lens. Decide future lenses in a month or two.

d. Buy a few books - a few basic ones like 'Learning to see creatively' or 'Understanding Exposures'. Will help you decide on a lot of future purchases including choice of lenses, camera body (if you decide to get the low cost camera first) etc.

e. Software - this is the darkroom equivalent of digital. So be prepared to spend some learning time and again, read books and this forum for deciding what you want to invest. Unlike many other stuff, you will not be able to return this stuff - so invest after you have made your decision.

That's pretty much my thoughts - mainly based on 'wish I had done it this way'.

Bottomline is that its an excellent but expensive hobby - and I would have laughed my head off in early 2004 if someone had predicted how much I would have spent (invested when you talk to your wife :) ) on this in just 15 months!!

[Bmosbacker]

Well, I have made a "discovery" of sorts. Thanks to everyone's excellent advice, I went to the store and physically compared the XT Rebel, the 20D and the 30D. No comparison. The 20D and 30D are far superior. So now I have to decide between the 20 and the 30D, the latter being a slight upgrade from the 20D. The main thing I like about the 30D is the larger LCD, which makes it easier to preview the photos. Thanks all and feel free to share additional advice--should I buy the older 20D or spend the extra for the newer 30D?

[dpastern]

Excellent news. I'd go with the 30D - for the extra money it's a worth it with the subtle improvements that Canon have applied to the 30D. Both are fine choices and you can't really go too far wrong. You might want to check out the Nikon D70s as well - it's a fine camera, but isn't quite as good as the Canon in very low light situations where you need a high ISO (film speed) rating.

I'd avoid the Pentax and Konica/Minolta digital cameras as choices, not because they're not any good, but simply because Konica/Minolta has withdrawn from the camera business and support in the future might be iffy, and I don't think Pentax is too far from packing it in either. Both Canon and Nikon have a huge range of accessories and support will be around for a long time.

I myself prefer Canon, for a variety of reasons - feel of the body, UI (User Interface), and AF (Auto Focus) performance. Nikon generally has better and more accurate metering and flash metering from my experience, but the AF is poorer - less accurate and slightly slower. Nikon does have the advantage that you can pretty much whack any lens from the past 45 odd years onto it and manually focus (which makes for some great bargains on 2nd hand manual focus lenses, especially the telephotos) - Canon doesn't offer this backwards compatibility, with only the EF lenses working on Canon AF bodies.

Cheers,

Dave

[Double Negative]

XT and a non zoom 35mm f/2 lens.
I couldn't agree more. Both relatively inexpensive yet very capable of great results. The image quality of that 35mm is great, especially over a cheap zoom. It will also serve to reinforce the basic principle of composition and match a "classic 35mm SLR with 50mm lens" very closely.

[cgratti]

I have a good size check coming in from a book being published. I have some money to spend, but I'm just starting out so I want to be wise. Any suggestions?


The Rebel XT for a camera, and as for lenses I would go with the 50mm f/1.8 to start, and the 17-40L. As for a flash, I would either go with the 550EX or the 430EX.

Dont forget a bag, CF cards (get at least two 1GB cards), and maybe a tripod or monopod. You may want some extra batteries for the camera so you can stay out longer and not watch you rbattery life. If you want to get out and relax and enjoy nature then you may want to check out macro photography, for that I would go with the Canon 100mm 2.8 macro or the Sigma 105mm Macro (Sigma is cheaper and jst as good IMO).

[ed from pa]

Only if you make a lot of money! Let me explain, i started this hobby on shoestring. Thinking i do not need all these other lenses, that is for the pros and guys and gals that know something about photography. Which i know nothing about, but am learning very slowly, (an age thing). I started out with a rebel kit from sears, last one they had, the silver one, i have know clue what model, see i told you i am slow. It cost about $500.00. It did not even have a box to take home.Takes awesome pictures. Man is never satsifed! Now since i have started reading on this forum about six months ago, I have a 20D, 580EX, EF28-135mm-17-40L-EF70-200F1/4L-85mmf1/8-EF50F1/8ff-EF 50f1/4-EF24-105Lmm. Now, that is just camera equipment, now we have accessories, oh yeah! How about an AW-Mini Trekker, and a Tamarac System 6, and a Tamarac Pro 12 these are camera carrying equipment only, well we have to have a Polarizing Lens, and also a UV lens, batteries, chargers, lenses cleaning equipment,(Gotto etc.) Watch out for bad weather, a Storm Jacket! 2-1GiG Skandisk - 1-2GiG Skandisk - three 256 Skandisk and one 512 Skandisk cards, 1 Skandisk card reader, Two 300 GiG external hard drives and the list goes on, and on.
I said all that to say this, This forum is the greatest forum on Canon equipment, and accessories. As you can see i have been taking notes. Learn from the Pros on this forum. It is the greatest, most rewarding hobby you will ever encounter.

ed from PA

[Andy_T]

The main thing I like about the 30D is the larger LCD, which makes it easier to preview the photos. Thanks all and feel free to share additional advice--should I buy the older 20D or spend the extra for the newer 30D?

Both are great cameras and will give you lots of fun.
You have to decide whether the additional money hurts you more or whether you would always in the future wish you had bought the more expensive one. Writing textbooks on microeconomy is one thing, applying the concepts in real life (as opposed to following your personal wishes and cravings :wink: )might be something else.

The more important decision will be which lens(es) to get.
There have been lots of contradicting ... but good opinions in this thread.

- the 18-55 kit lens only. This will help you to find out for yourself that you might want a faster, sharper lens (especially on the long end. It's quite decent on the wide end). Downside is that you might lose some good photo opportunities on the way.

- a good fast prime lens only. This will help you to hone your composition skills, like the photographers of old. Downside is that you might find it boring and lose interest in photography.

- No DSLR, rather a good compact. That IMO was good advice 3-4 years ago, when DSLRs were not available below $ 2000. Now, I wouldn't follow that route for the reasons outlined.

- the 'full blown approach'. OK, has not been suggested so far (makes me wonder :wink: ). Get the 16-35/2.8L, 24-70/2.8L and 70-200/2.8 IS L. You'll be set for photography as your hobby. Downsides: $ 4,000 well spent in lenses, but spent. Also, this will make it quite hard to get additional kicks by adding better gear later :wink:

When I started out with my 20D after using my G2 for 2 years, I got the 18-55 kit lens and the Tamron 28-75/2.8, which was a very decent setup. I mostly used the 28-75/2.8 because it was sharper and faster than the kit lens, but the kit lens saw some use for wide angle. Then I got the 50/1.8 prime (75$ for the MKII version) and immediately fell in love with its speed and sharpness. So this became my most used lens, until it got replaced by the more expensive 50/1.4, mainly for the better bokeh of that lens. A bit later, the Sigma 30/1.4 was added to offer a bit more of a normal angle - currently my most used lens. Most recent additions are a Tokina 17/3.5 and a Canon 80-200/2.8L. Actually, adding lenses as you grow is fun and part of the game - at least for me.

So ... my suggestion?
Maybe get the Sigma 18-50/2.8 and the Canon 35/2 or 50/1.8 lens. This should settle you for the beginning and provide you with enough options for the future of your hobby.

And don't approach the whole thing too scientifically :lol:

Best regards,
Andy