1D V.S. 10D V.S. 1DS??

[photography By Evangelos]

I am not sure were to start with this one so here goes. I have 2 10D's and one D60. I find I am not happy with the 10D A/F system I have a lot of out of focus issues with the camera. I have called canon CPS and they have told me to send in the cameras with the lenses so they can adjust the lenses to the camera body's or adjust the camera body's. Is the 1D a better camera in the A/F area and is it worth the price over the 10D? Also how large of a print can you make with the 1D? Now the 1Ds it's price tag gives me sticker shock for this type of camera is it worth the price or is it over kill? Has any one tested all 3 cameras and what is your take on them. I have used the 1D and find it is a much faster camera and I have not had any out of focus images with the camera and I had the camera for a day and loved it. How ever I did not print any of the images and to me they look just a good as my 10D on the lap top. And the meter in the camera is also very very good VS the 10D. I guess I will send in the cameras to canon CPS they will need them for 7 Days I hope they can fix the problem as the cameras focus fast but not accurately at all. I have about 25 to 30% of my images out of focus or very soft. I am shooting in high Jepeg should I soot the camera only in raw? Will the make any difference to better images. I really have never used raw since the D30. I use one shot A/F single frame with the center A/F only. I have use canon's for the last 10 years and know how they work and have never had this problem. I am at the end of my digital rope. Any help will be very much appreciated.

[justme_dc]

There is really very little to compare between the 10D and the 1D and 1Ds. Other than the Canon badge and EF lens mount they couldn't be more different. The 1 series cameras are better in every single respect and their price reflects that. I purchased a 10D to see if digital would make my life easier. After three trips to Canon to repair the poorly calibrated focus I have a camera that focuses correctly about 70% of the time which is up from the 100% inaccuracy that it had out of the box. This Camera is virtually useless to me for any kind of paying work. The focus is flakey, the metering is hit and miss and I still think that it feels cheap and light weight with the battery grip attached. If I had to do it again I would have skipped the 10D and gone straight for the 1D likely followed by the 1Ds. If you make your money with photography then you need a tool that you can trust, for me that is not the 10D. I'll keep mine as I don't own any other digital camera until I can absorb the cost of the 10D but it's strictly for non paying work.

As I recall Evangelos, you do weddings. The 1D would be great for all your PJ shots and Candids but I'd hesitate to trust it for images that you want to print over 11X14. It'll do a bit bigger but I wouldn't want to. The 1Ds files will print nicely well past 30 inches. If you are a working pro then get one of the 1 series bodies. You can always lease one and write it off.....That's what I am going to do.

The disclaimer for the flamers...
I am speaking about *MY* experience with *MY* Canon 10D. I am refering to *MY* nightmares with canon service and *MY*inablity to trust *MY* faulty camera. Not about your 10D, yours may very well wash windows, get stubborn stains out of fine fabrics and polish your shoes every night while you are sleeping and then wake you with a nice heathly breakfast that it has thoughfully prepared for you. *MINE* however, does none of these things. Infact it doesn't even do the one thing I want it to do, which is take correctly focused pictures. That being said.....Flame on!

[Aylwin]

Although I'm one of the happy 10D owners, I love your disclaimer! :D

Sorry, nothing really to comment about the actual topic. :)

[danphoto1]

I have both a 10D and a 1D and I love them both. granted the 10D doesn't focus as fast as the 1D and is a little slower in al aspects. The 10D still manages to get some great shots that are super shope and the color and saturation is astounding. The1D is a great sports camera with almost no shutter lag and gets great photos. Two differnt animals If they are good enough for Peters at Sports Illustrate aboth cameras then they are certainly good enough for me. All of this out of focus and not good camera may not all be the camera's fault. If you expect to get great shots 100 % of the time get real Do some research and see how many rolls of film the pros use or how many 512 or 1 gig cards they fill to get that one great shot

Dan

[pwagner]

The 1D and the 1Ds both share the same autofocus system and I believe that it is better/faster/whatever than the 10D. I believe the autofocus will function with f/8 lenses wherease the 10D autofocus requires an f/5.6 or faster. The max aperature comes into play when you add tele-extenders to increase your reach.

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

I also had problems with the focus, but this was due to the automatic focus point chooser, I switched to ONE focus point and now have 100% in focus shots.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

Greetings,
Frank

[martcol]

I dream about the 1Ds. I don't do paying work. I have no money. If I had more the 1Ds is at the top of my wish list (along with a glut of L lenses). If I got one tomorrow I'd come straight back here and tell everyone. Is there something wrong with me?

I get consistently good shots with my 10D and I have an early one. I still worry like mad about AF problems. I'm thinking of seeing a therapist.... ???

I think the biggest difference between each of the cameras is whether you can justify the expenditure. It's not really fair to comare a £1500 camera with a £3K or £5+K one: Is it? But who cares - I still want one. :p

Martin.

[Andy_T]

I think to determine how badly you really want it is to ask a hypothetical question:

If you saved the life of a canon representative tomorrow, and - out of gratitude - he would write you a voucher for $ 8000 to be spent on Canon products ... would you rather get the D1s or L lenses for your 10D???

Hmmm :)

Andy

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

L lenses for my 10D, without a doubt.
Where can we find those in need of help Canon guys :D.

Greetings,
Frank

[martcol]

Andythaler wrote:
would you rather get the D1s or L lenses for your 10D???

Hmmm :)

Andy


Aaaaaaargghhhh!

[Andy_T]

J.A.F. Doorhof wrote:

Where can we find those in need of help Canon guys :D.

Greetings,
Frank

Hmmm... What about ... you beat him up, I rescue him :)? Or the other way round???

PS: Lets select an American guy, however. Them Japs might know martial arts...

Regards,
Andy

[Phil Hall]

I started with aD30, which I still have but do not use very often. I bought a 1D instead of a D60 because of all the problems I read about. The D30 is fine with Canon lenses, especially the L series. However, the 1D is so much better, faster focus, longer bursts faster saving. Pictures are generally good up to 11 by 14. Shooting RAW provides better pictures than JPG, the difference can easily be seen in 8x10 or larger. I guess the next thing for me is to skip the 10D and bite the bullet on the 1Ds. Using the series 1 camera with L telephoto lenses requires some sort of body building course.


Phil Hall

Santa Ynez CA

[justme_dc]

All of this out of focus and not good camera may not all be the camera's fault. If you expect to get great shots 100 % of the time get real Do some research and see how many rolls of film the pros use or how many 512 or 1 gig cards they fill to get that one great shot

I don't need to research my own shooting style I have the numbers right here. I have binders and binders of chromes that back up these numbers.

With my 1 Series film cameras and even my A2E I typically shoot a Propack a day when on a job. That's 20 X 36 exposure rolls. Giving you 720 frames. my in-focus average for film is about 90% (actually 89.7%) with a split of 70% action and 30% posed images.

On it's best day my 10D will average about 70% and the exposure is flakey with and without the flash.

I'd like 100% but I am realistic anything in the 80-90% range is about the best I can expect. My 10D isn't there.

Perhaps some sports shooters are getting good images with their "Spray and Pray" method of shooting but that is not how I shoot.

[lziering]

I have been shooting for the last 2 weeks with a Canon 1Ds and can say that the images that come out of it are better in every way than the 10D, except that high ISO (above 400) images are much less noisy from my 10D.

The 1Ds shots are always in focus; the shots from my 10D are often backfocused (after three trips to Canon in Irvine!!!). That said, the 1Ds is not as easy to use. The menus are awakward to use, the zoom on preview function is what you'd expect on a camera costing $200, as I mentioned the noise at and above 400 is unacceptable, the buffer is small and it clears very slowly, and I could go on.

I think if you can, you should wait a bit longer for Canon to bring out the replacement for the 1D (1Dx?) which is rumored to be announced very soon or even wait for the replacement for the 1Ds which just might come out early next year in time for the PMA. This, of course, is all speculation.

[KennyG]

Two points to address. I shoot motorsport and I am NOT a 'pray and spray' photographer. I use mainly single shot and I keep over 80% of what I shoot. Please do not tar all sport shooters with the same brush.

I used a 1Ds for a week courtesy of another sports photographer while he was off in Japan for a holiday (trusting type) and I was impressed to the point where one of my 10D bodies will be replaced by a 1Ds in a few weeks.

The first thing I noticed was that it was like stepping back to my old Canon film days, with a much brighter viewfinder than the 10D. The AF is excellent, but there again there is nothing at all wrong with my two 10D AF. The sensor had more dust on it than I ever accumulate on the 10D and I have a feeling that it is a general issue with Canon rather than a 10D only problem (or he was sloppy with his cleaning routines). I didn't get anywhere near using all the camera's functions, but it was enough to make parting with it very difficult.

Viewed on screen the 1Ds images had more impact but when printed at 10x8 on an i950 or s9100 the difference was not as noticable. I did not have time to get them lab processed where the results may have been different.

As I will be shooting a lot of rallies over the winter I have decided to get the 1Ds because of its weather sealing. As long as I stick to my sealed 70-200L or 500L the odd eccentricity of the UK weather shouldn't bother the equipment. Do the extras justify the cost? Only time will tell.

[justme_dc]

KennyG wrote:
I shoot motorsport and I am NOT a 'pray and spray' photographer. I use mainly single shot and I keep over 80% of what I shoot. Please do not tar all sport shooters with the same brush.

what I Actually said... Perhaps some sports shooters are getting good images with their "Spray and Pray" method of shooting but that is not how I shoot.

Some is not all, I wasn't tarring in broad strokes....Relax, I was addressing the assertion by someone else that sports shooters take many images to get one good one. I was merely saying that it isn't what I do.

[MrPogo]

justme_dc wrote:
Some is not all, I wasn't tarring in broad strokes....Relax, I was addressing the assertion by someone else that sports shooters take many images to get one good one. I was merely saying that it isn't what I do.


When you get to the "top pros" - specifically the national press - they're shooting almost constantly, for two main reasons:
because it's vital to get the perfect shot, and because they can shoot constantly.

To use the example of photographers at English premier league soccer matches, these days they have wireless links going from the camera to a laptop computer in a press room somewhere in the stadium, so nothing is being saved in camera at all.
There's then guys sitting at the computers who review every shot as it comes in, and save it if it's good, or if not immediately discard it. Then as soon as it gets to half time/the end of the match they quickly sort through the images, and email the best ones off to the news desk, where the photo subs will then choose which ones go into the paper, which may be going to print as little as 5 minutes after the game ends (in fact by the time we've walked the 20 minutes between the stadium to where we park our car - right opposite the newspaper offices - the "football special" edition of the paper is already in the store there with a report and photos from the game we just left!).
As well as the speed required, another reason for the "spray and pray" method used there is that if they don't get the "perfect" shot of the vital goal, or the controversial incident that decides that match, then they may not have a job monday morning ; )

[jteixeira]

Very well putted Mr Pogo.
I'm an editor on a mountain bike magazine and the truth is that if someone that is covering an event and doesnt get the perfect shot from this or that race or miss the winner racer, they will be in trouble and i think that the same happends with most of the pros that make their living shooting sports.
Thats why i decided to get a 1Ds and i cant wait to get my hands on it and start shooting to see how much different from the 1D it will be coz i think that when it comes to speed maybe the D1 is still the best option but on final quality i dont have any doubts that the 1Ds will rule. Pixels talks... ;-)

[jteixeira]

Very well putted Mr Pogo.
I'm an editor on a mountain bike magazine and the truth is that if someone that is covering an event and doesnt get the perfect shot from this or that race or miss the winner racer, they will be in trouble and i think that the same happends with most of the pros that make their living shooting sports.
Thats why i decided to get a 1Ds and i cant wait to get my hands on it and start shooting to see how much different from the 1D it will be coz i think that when it comes to speed maybe the D1 is still the best option but on final quality i dont have any doubts that the 1Ds will rule. Pixels talks... ;-)

[robertwgross]

Where can I buy one of those Canon broad brushes for tar?

---Bob Gross---

[stowheliman]

Wow! I was going to ditch my G2 and pick up the 10D due to all of the AF problems I've had with the G2. But after reading these threads I'm questioning how prudent it would be to purchase the 10D....... ;-(

[Dans_D60]

I will be attending this year’s PMA convention in Las Vegas during February just to see if Canon is ready for a 1D replacement. Since sales are still very strong, I don’t know if we will see anything new this time around. But I too will be upgrading my 10D most likely to a 1Ds as I spend more time in the studio than sporting events.

That said, I got to tell you that all the issues suggested with 10D focusing just has not happen to me? Of course some images are out of focus but the percentage is no different than any of my other auto-focus film or digital cameras. And I have one of the very earliest 10D bodies picked up last March.

Then it must be combination lenses and camera bodies? I don’t think so. All my lenses seem to perform the same on film or digital bodies. Almost all shots are in focus although most images are not “keepers” due to other reasons like composition or lighting.

Some examples of lenses and AF focus wit several EOS digital bodies:

100-400 L and 70-200 2.8 L with 10D and D60:
http://www.pettusphoto.com/jetski/

28-70 2.8 L, 70-200 2.8L, and 50 1.4 with 10D:
http://www.pettusphoto.com/kelly/

70-200 2.8L with D60:
http://www.dpcg.com/nct/

100-400 L and 70-200 L with D30, D60 and 10D:
http://www.pettusphoto.com/surf/april-19.htm

100-400 L and D60:
http://www.pettusphoto.com/sports/

28-70 2.8L and 15-30 EX (Sigma) on 10D and D60:
http://www.pettusphoto.com/flower-01.htm

And so on…………