300D (p)REVIEWS

[phidong]

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/300d.html

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/eos_300d-review/index.shtml

Seems like all the hype is dying away. It is definitely a firmware-cripled camera, but the price tag is pretty persuading and the pictures (samples) still look very very nice. Still not sure if I'm going to get one, but you guys can take a look.. ;)

[rdegrauw]

Yeah, i agree very nice pics.

I'm working with the g3 and i am still statisfied but when i see these pictures..........


Ronald de Grauw
Canon g3 gallery
http://www.mediabeeld.nl

[dmshack]

I have a G-2 that I bought last October but would like to trade up to the new EOS 300D. I hate the shutter delay on the G-2. Does the EOS 300D have any shutter delay? Also I wanted an SLR so that I may be able to use my Canon AF lenses from my 35mm Canon film camera. Will I be able to use these on the 300D? Finally, no one seems to have the 300D yet. Where can I get one?

DavID

[drisley]

I'm actually surprised to see the Rebel missing some functions that even the G3 has.... like custom functions, and choice of 1st or 2nd curtain for flash.

[Guillermo Freige]

drisley wrote:
I'm actually surprised to see the Rebel missing some functions that even the G3 has.... like custom functions, and choice of 1st or 2nd curtain for flash.

The 300D is an excellent camera (and hopefully my next one soon) but, in the DSLR scale, is like the A70 level compared to the digicam scale. A camera almost as good in features compared to a S45 or G3, but with the top level functions not present (like the RAW mode or histograms), in a more compact package and much cheaper. That doesn''t mean you can't take excellent pictures with it.
Following the scale, probably the equivalence is the following:

A70/A80 ----> 300D
S45/S50 ----> 10D
G3/G5 ----> 1D/1Ds

So, is the 300D crippled? Of course. It means you can't take good pictures? Not at all :), and not everyone have $1500 to buy a 10D (and that without a lens). And $8000 for a 1Ds is only a dream for most of us.

[Andy_T]

As the 300D is not available yet, I got my hands on the 300V in a photo shop yesterday, as this camera is supposed to be the 300D's film twin.

Build quality (look and feel) did not totally convince me, it felt cheap compared to, say, my old Nikon 601 camera, let alone the 10D I compared it to side-by-side. On first impression, the price difference seems justified only by the different build quality.

They didn't have the 18-55 lens, of course, but the 300V comes with a 28-90 lens that also conveyed a rather flimsy impression to me. But the total package did not really look like a $1000 camera to me, rather like something in the $150 range. But that was just MY personal experience.

However, holding a camera in your hands in the camera shop can be no substitution at all for a real photo shoot with it.

Regards,
Andy

[phidong]

You have to realize that although the 300V is the film counterpart of the 300D, they are NOT identical. The body is in fact only BASED on the 300V and not the exact same body w/ a digital camera in it. Granted, it will feel cheaper only b/c the body is plastic, but that helps keep the cost down too.

[puttick]

Guillermo says the 300D doesn't have RAW mode and histogram display. According to the Canon Japan website, it clearly does have both those functions, see:

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eosdigital/53_specs.html

And it has most of the shooting modes of EOS film cameras, 7 zone autofocus, etc. It lacks ISO 3200 and continuous shooting is a little slower. IMO the polycarbonate body is just fine (my experience with "plastic" film EOS cameras is they are extremely robust). For me, the thing I would miss most compared to my G2 is the swivel screen, which I use all the time!

The lens is optimised for the 2/3 size CCD, with smaller, lighter elements and shorter backfocus. This is entirely appropriate, as full-frame 35mm lenses are unnecessarily large (and wasted in terms of coverage) for the reduced format of the chip. It is also possible to make a good lens for far less cost in this way.

Another good feature for me is it shares the same batteries and CF card format with my G2 (and I also have an S400 with CF cards, so I am fairly committed to this).

I would reserve judgement until I see one, but it looks very good indeed to me, and I don't see the saving as cheapness but rather the opportunity to do something else with the money, like taking a photo trip!

[CyberDyneSystems]

It definatley DOES shoot raw file format.

[PacAce]

puttick wrote:For me, the thing I would miss most compared to my G2 is the swivel screen, which I use all the time!


I'm sure many people whose only experience with digital photography is with the P&S type camera will NOT be aware that the LCD screen of the DSLR is used only AFTER the picture is taken to review the shot. It can not be used BEFORE shooting to compose the image. All that has to be done using the optical viewfinder.

So not only does the 300D NOT have a swivel screen, the screen can't even be used as a real-time viewer. For some people, that's not a big deal, especially if they've worked with film SLRs before. But for others, it may be a big deal.

[puttick]

Yes, I realise it is for review only. One of the two reasons I will miss it! The other is because by swivelling it you can take pictures with the camera held above your head, down low, pointing sideways, or unobtrusively... I also have an "ixus" S400 and miss it on that, too.

OTOH with 40 years SLR experience I have rather missed the optical SLR viewfinder with my digicams. Horses for courses!

[Guillermo Freige]

Probably my previous post was confusing. The lack of RAW and histogram belongs to the comparison of the A70 with more feature-rich cameras as the S45 and G3. All the camera characteristics noted refers to the A70.
The general idea of the post was to try to position the 300D in the DSLR scale, using the A70 as a similar product in the digicam scale, as an "almost-everything-except-the-more-complex-fuctions-but-cheap" camera

[stowheliman]

I guess I should begin with the disclaimer that I am a photo hobbyist who has outgrown my Canon G2 and am looking for a digital SLR. I'm no professional....

Like others I don't understand what the significant differences are between the 10D and the digital Rebel, and I'd really like to understand it.

I was prepared to pay $1,400 for the 10D until the Rebel was announced and since it seems to have the same major features as the 10D, the decision to save $500 on the Rebel should be simple.

After reading the threads, I've come to the conclusion that something hasn't penetrated this thick skull of mine. From what I can tell, the 10D has a few extra features which must be very desirable extras for the professional photographer. But when it comes to the things I thought were important, I see few MAJOR differences.

I can understand the advantages of the magnesium body, but do the pro's often use the custom color temperature settings for white balance? What about exposure compensation and flash compensation at 1/2 or 1/3 steps versus just 1/3? What about selectable AF modes in P, M, Tv and Av modes? And finally how often are you shooting in the range of 1600 to 3200 ISO?
Other than that, I see no MAJOR differences.

Am I missing something? Please don't flame me too badly.....I really want to understand the MAJOR differences.

[RichardtheSane]

What about selectable AF modes in P, M, Tv and Av modes

Couldn't live without it!

[PacAce]

stowheliman wrote:
I guess I should begin with the disclaimer that I am a photo hobbyist who has outgrown my Canon G2 and am looking for a digital SLR. I'm no professional....

Like others I don't understand what the significant differences are between the 10D and the digital Rebel, and I'd really like to understand it.

I was prepared to pay $1,400 for the 10D until the Rebel was announced and since it seems to have the same major features as the 10D, the decision to save $500 on the Rebel should be simple.

After reading the threads, I've come to the conclusion that something hasn't penetrated this thick skull of mine. From what I can tell, the 10D has a few extra features which must be very desirable extras for the professional photographer. But when it comes to the things I thought were important, I see few MAJOR differences.

I can understand the advantages of the magnesium body, but do the pro's often use the custom color temperature settings for white balance? What about exposure compensation and flash compensation at 1/2 or 1/3 steps versus just 1/3? What about selectable AF modes in P, M, Tv and Av modes? And finally how often are you shooting in the range of 1600 to 3200 ISO?
Other than that, I see no MAJOR differences.

Am I missing something? Please don't flame me too badly.....I really want to understand the MAJOR differences.


For me personally, the only way I can describe the difference between the 10D and the 300D is to say that, yes, the differences don't seem very major but once you've used a lot of those features they become features that you will definitely miss if you can't have them any more. You can do without them if you have to but they're definitely nice to have.

However, if you've never used these features before, then you probably won't miss them at all and you'll get by without them...until someone points it out to you that the 10D has this and the 300D doesn't and you think to yourself, "Hmmm, wonder why they left that out of the 300D?"

Most of the time, my AF mode is set to AI Focus. However, there are times when I specifically need to have it set to AI Servo (or even One-Shot). The 300D won't give me that option.

And when in AI Servo mode, I usually shoot bursts of many frames at a time. Even with a max burst rate of 9 shots the 10D sometimes has a hard time keeping up with me. Can you imagine how far behind the 300D would be in the same situation with a burst rate of only 4 shots? Again, I don't do this all the time but when I do, the burst rate of 9 vs 4 shots does make a big difference for me.

ISO 3200? Me personally, I have yet to use it. Don't think I ever will but one never knows. I've manage OK so far with ISO 1600 and below but it's comforting to know that I haven't topped out my options here. :)

Other features I use and now need on the 10D is the ability to reassign the * button to focus locking instead of AE locking.

So, are all these little "nice to have" features plus the magnesium body worth the extra $500 or so? I guess only you can answer that.

But whichever one you decide on, you'll still have a winner because they're both excellent cameras (or will be, in the case of the 300D).

[Guillermo Freige]

stow:
I think the real question is: you have more than $2000 to spend in a 10D PLUS at least a lens (like the 24-85 , the 28-105, the 28-135 IS or the 17-40L if you like a real wideangle lens)? If the answer is YES, there is no doubt the 10D with a quality lens will be a better (but heavier) camera.

BUT, are for you the differences enough to pay twice as much for the 10D+lens, when for $999 you have the 300D with the 18-55?.

In my case, at least, the answer is NO to both questions. Probably the thing I will miss more will be the custom functions (I use second-courtain flash sync), and that's all. One-shot AF can be simulated swiching to MF after prefocus to lock it, and I use evaluative almost exclusively, and sometimes spot (replaced with partial) so the no AE mode selection, or the switch to partial with AE lock works fine for me too. And I don't have the $2300 to buy the 10D and the 17-40 to fill the gap leaved by my 28-135 after the 1,6x crop, so the $1000 300d+lens is the way to go. And as Phil Askey shows, the image quality (using parameter 2 or RAW) is the same than the 10D, so both cameras are the same where it matters to me. After all, image quality is the ultimate goal, no?

[drisley]

Curious...
So, the 300d ONLY uses evaluative metering?
No Spot Metering?

[PacAce]

drisley wrote:
Curious...
So, the 300d ONLY uses evaluative metering?
No Spot Metering?

From what I can make out from the manual, the 300D is Evaluative most of the time. It switch to Center-weighted in Manual mode and to Spot Metering (temporarily) when you press the "*" button to lock in an exposure. I guess it kind of makes sense to switch to Spot Metering when locking exposure but it sure takes the creativity out of the photographer.

[Guillermo Freige]

The 300D (as the 10D) has no Spot metering, but Partial metering. Is similar, but it covers a larger, cross-shaped area. The 300D uses Evaulative in all modes except manual (Center weighted used) and switchs to Partial during AE lock.

[dmshack]

The thing that drives me crazy with my G-2 is the shutter delay. I would like to know if this delay exits with the 300D. Also, I have been told that I would be unhappy with the results using my Canon AF lenses from my Canon EOS 630. Can anyone comment on thses two issues?

[Guillermo Freige]

In the shutter lag area, the 300D has a prefocus shutter lag of 0,142 secs, and a full autofocus in less than 0,3 secs in normal light situations, and less than 2 secs in low light, at least with the included 15-55 lens.
The G2, has a faster prefocus shutter lag (0,095), but a 1.3 secs full autofocus at tele, so when enough light is available, the 300D can be a full 1 sec faster than the G2. I've extracted the info from Imaging Resource.

In the lens area, you can use all your EF lenses without problems, but remember to multiply the focal length by 1,6. So the 28-80 has the coverage of a 45-128 in the 300D, for example. There is not a big problem, if you buy the kit, because the 18-55 will fill the wideangle gap of your existing lens. Also, the multiplication means you will be using only the center area of the lens, where lenses perform better, so probably you will be happy with the result. To buy the kit is also a good idea, because the 18-55 lens isn't available alone, and if after buying the body only you realises you need a wider lens, the only other "cheap" option is the $800 17-40L. A big money difference with the $100 18-55 lens included in the kit :)

[PacAce]

dmshack wrote:
The thing that drives me crazy with my G-2 is the shutter delay. I would like to know if this delay exits with the 300D. Also, I have been told that I would be unhappy with the results using my Canon AF lenses from my Canon EOS 630. Can anyone comment on thses two issues?

I guess that would depend on what lens you have on your Canon EOS 630. I had a Tamron 28-200 lens on on Elan IIe that I tried on the 10D for about a couple of weeks. The softness of this lens was so obvious at wide apertures that I quickly replaced it with the Canon 28-135 and the difference, even with this non-L Canon lens, was very noticeable compared to the Tamron, especially at the wider aperture settings.

[ron chappel]

I can't believe those that are writing off this camera because it misses a (very) few little features!!
If you really want to spend 500 bucks extra on the 10D,be my guest.-it's your $

[PacAce]

ron chappel wrote:
I can't believe those that are writing off this camera because it misses a (very) few little features!!
If you really want to spend 500 bucks extra on the 10D,be my guest.-it's your $

I'm thinking it could be more than just economics that determines whether one buys the Digital Rebel or the 10D. Some people will buy the Honda Accord but a few others would rather go for the Acura TL, to use as an analogy. Why is that? They're basically both the "same" car except that the TL is a little more expensive with a little more features.

[billh101]

Guillermo Freige wrote:
In the shutter lag area, the 300D has a prefocus shutter lag of 0,142 secs, and a full autofocus in less than 0,3 secs in normal light situations, and less than 2 secs in low light, at least with the included 15-55 lens.
The G2, has a faster prefocus shutter lag (0,095), but a 1.3 secs full autofocus at tele, so when enough light is available, the 300D can be a full 1 sec faster than the G2. I've extracted the info from Imaging Resource.

It's hard for me to visualize what a fraction of a second is like. All I know is I have an A70 now and the shutter lag, even with prefocus, is unbearable. I'm used to shooting with my film SLR where I squeeze the shutter and it shoots instantly. That's what I want in a digital. I'm going to have to wait until I find a store that has a 300D and just see how it feels once I get one in my hands. That will determine when and with what I will enter the DSLR world. I'm excited about it for many reasons, but very cautious as well.
Bill

[Belmondo]

billh101 wrote:

I'm going to have to wait until I find a store that has a 300D and just see how it feels once I get one in my hands. That will determine when and with what I will enter the DSLR world. I'm excited about it for many reasons, but very cautious as well.
Bill

I think that's wise with any new product. We often underestimate 'look and feel' as vital factors, while placing too much value on performance numbers and specifications.

Much of the enjoyment I've derived from my 10D (and for that matter, my G2) is the sense of quality that results from the heft, overall finish, and solid feel of a metal body.

This does not address the issue of shutter lag, I know, but I've held a Digital Rebel, and it feels ----well, it feels unsubstantial ('plasticy' and squishy). Regardless of how well it performs, for me it would always detract from the overall satisfaction derived from owning one.

Consequently, I heartily endorse your recommendation to see it, feel it, test it, and otherwise become totally familiar with it before making an investment of this size.

[stowheliman]

Actually the price of the Canon 10D can be found as low as $1,250.

(http://www.thecamerassource.com/viewitem.php?IndexID=3029&RefTag=nextag)

So instead of a $500 gap, it's a $350 difference which makes it a little easier to justify the 10D. I think the magnesium alloy body (which protects all of the internal mechanics and electronics) and the 9 picture burst mode is is a big deal even to this amateur photographer.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion. It has helped me with my decision.

[dmshack]

I saw that price for the 10D as well but wondered if it was from a reliable source. I think that by the time the 300D comes to market the 10D may even be lower. Even though my G-2 is 10 months old and used very lightly maybe 6 times, I will be taking a whipping on the price since I am lucky to get half of what I paid for it.

[stowheliman]

Like you, I also have a G2, but shutter lag, the inability to capture well focused, clear pictures of indoor sports and focus problems in low light situations require me to make a change.

I thought the G2 would be everything I'd ever need, which has weighed heavily on my mind trying to decide between the 300D and the 10D.

[Stan R]

Actually the price of the Canon 10D can be found as low as $1,250.

http://www.thecamerassource.com/viewitem.php?IndexID=3029&RefTag=nextag)

So instead of a $500 gap, it's a $350 difference which makes it a little easier to justify the 10D


The camera price may be $1,250 but, as usual with those cheap deals, they try to make some of it back by gouging on the shipping charge. $75 for ground shipping 7-10 business days :(