hs "talent" show

[basroil]

just got new lens and i was testing it out at the local talent show (not too much talent but a lot of show, all 3 hours of it). lighting was bad at best, so if anyone has tips, feel free to share them.


http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5586/mg63742dd.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1561/mg63952ln.jpg
don't ask what they are doing, not too sure myself
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3254/mg64280kc.jpg

all taken with 70-200IS and 350d. f2.8 to 3.5, 1/40 to 1/250, iso 800 to 1600 (yes, pretty random configs). no sharpening, but some whitebalance/levels fixing was done.

[DwightMcCann]

Don't shoot through a microphone, learn to use custome white balance http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157316, use a tripod, get faster primes lenses. :-)

[René Damkot]

Actually #2 is quite nice.
On #1 standing on the other side of the microphonestand would've helped. On #3 framing a bit wider would have kept them their feet ;)
On WB: I use tungsten or K=2800-3400 (with predominent red-blue light).
I second the 'faster prime lenses' part. Why not use the 50/1.8?

[basroil]

basically, i didn't have any special consideration for taking pictures, so i was stuck at my seat most of the time (managed to get further back, but not closer to the front, so 50mm was out of the question) as for tripod, thing i have is a clunky old one, so i used that mainly when i needed to rest between acts, and the IS does work pretty well on 70-200 IS, first one is taken 1/20 handheld (yes, that's past the recomended min speed, but it worked sort of). i'll definately try the CWB if i get a chance, though the stage lighting did change significantly within a preformance a few times (ie more/less lights, spotlights on/off, ambient light on/off, etc), so i hope one cbw fits the entire show... luckly the next event is held outdoors and they can't control lighting, so CBW will be a saver, and i should be able to get in close enough for thrifty to work


btw, rene, the WB is already in that range, which tells you a bit about the lighting in that stage

[Curtis N]

learn to use custome white balance... get faster primes lenses.Going out on a limb here to respectfully take issue with POTN's live entertainment photog extraordinaire.

Custom White Balance can be a futile excersize under stage lighting. The light isn't "white" to begin with. Usually the tungsten setting works well.

Prime lenses can sometimes be useful, but aside from their cost (which is substantial for anything past 50mm) there is the obvious sacrifice in versatility, not to mention a very shallow DOF with wide apertures.

Shooting live performances as a pro with near-stage access is one thing. A hobbyist taking occasional shots from the seats is a different scenario. Multiple bodies and a bag full of lenses are generally not practical.

The OP did a nice job here, in view of the lighting and other limitations. The first two shots could stand to be brightened a bit with the RAW conveter.

[DwightMcCann]

Curtis, the faces in both of the first two images are about equally "hot". Since I shoot in similar lighting in my "alternate" venue and have successfully used CWB, I made the suggestion. I have experience both with types of venues: $750K of lighting and $750 of lighting. And my experience with Tungsten is that it borders on useless ... go look at the CWB thread I referenced. And I think you read more into my "faster primes" than intended ... I was thinking 50mm f/1.8 and perhaps the 85mm f/1.8 ... I have both. :-) And, you do know that I didn't start my concert shooting career with the best equipment in the world, don't you? :rolleyes:

[Curtis N]

Since I shoot in similar lighting in my "alternate" venue and have successfully used CWB, I made the suggestion ... go look at the CWB thread I referenced.All thirteen pages of it? ;)
I remember that thread being largely a "RAW vs. JPEG" debate, so please forgive me if I missed a few details.

How do you go about setting a CWB in such a venue? My guess is the only way to get close is to have the lighting guy turn on all the non-gelled elements at 100%, get on the stage with a white or gray card and shoot it. While there are several factors that will limit the effectiveness of this technique, I agree that it might be more accurate than using the tungsten preset.

[DwightMcCann]

All thirteen pages of it? ;)


Nope, just my original post in which I show an image using tungsten white balance and one using CWB. The RAW vs. JPEG discussion that subsequently occurred was just the result of numerous ill mannered RAW ideologues who can't get any attention for their beliefs (with which I agree) by starting threads entitled things like, "RAW is better than JPEG" because no one wants to hear again for the 4000th time! :-)

[condyk]

Dwight, could you advise how use of a custom white balance would help in a situation where the lighting situation is constantly changing. As the OP said:

... though the stage lighting did change significantly within a preformance a few times (ie more/less lights, spotlights on/off, ambient light on/off, etc) ...

I can understand how, when using JPG, in your example shot a CWB could provide an improvement, but seems the light was constant there. I don't see the relevance of linking to CWB usage in a constant light environment when the OP is talking about a changing environment. Maybe I have missed something.

[DwightMcCann]

Dwight, could you advise how use of a custom white balance would help in a situation where the lighting situation is constantly changing. As the OP said:



I can understand how, when using JPG, in your example shot a CWB could provide an improvement, but seems the light was constant there. I don't see the relevance of linking to CWB usage in a constant light environment when the OP is talking about a changing environment. Maybe I have missed something.
No, Condyk, you haven't missed anything, you just can't get off wanting to push RAW ... it's manual focus all over again. If you want to push RAW then do it but don't keep asking me to explain myself over and over again in various threads in order to try to make some point about RAW. I have been very clear about addressing the first two images, in which the light was very similar ... please read my replies before questioning them. If the OP wants to ask me about it fine, but you are a one trick pony ... rather than simply make your own recommendations that we've all heard over and over again you keep questioning my recommendations and then claim you are just trying to help educate ... but of course you could share you opinions without ever mentioning my replies at all. So, while I agree that RAW is likely the best general option I can see where someone might want to know about alternatives and not be hammered every time CWB is mentioned. We pay a lot of money for these various features and it would be nice to be able to use them all.

[condyk]

... don't keep asking me to explain myself over and over again in various threads in order to try to make some point about RAW. I have been very clear about addressing the first two images, in which the light was very similar ... please read my replies before questioning them. If the OP wants to ask me about it fine, but you are a one trick pony ... rather than simply make your own recommendations that we've all heard over and over again you keep questioning my recommendations and then claim you are just trying to help educate ... but of course you could share you opinions without ever mentioning my replies at all.

What a bizarre response. I think I have only mentioned RAW in one thread that you also posted in. I also don't question your recommendations. I thought it was a reasonable question. I don't care what people use frankly. I use RAW 95% of the time and recommend it to others when it is relevant. Is that such a crime? Note I didn't mention RAW at all here. I read your reply which wasn't clear to me so I asked you to explain. Weird :confused:

[basroil]

I can understand how, when using JPG, in your example shot a CWB could provide an improvement, but seems the light was constant there.

actually, i changed wb in raw to get them to look the about same. easier to get a series of pictures if they have the same look to them. first one had red stage lights on left side and blue ones on right, and second pic had blue stage lights on right and a white spotlight (old spotlight was definately annoying considering there was sometimes one, sometimes two of them). guess i made these two look too similar then...

[Curtis N]

first one had red stage lights on left side and blue ones on right, and second pic had blue stage lights on right and a white spotlight (old spotlight was definately annoying considering there was sometimes one, sometimes two of them).I am convinced there are more clueless light board operators in this world than clueless photographers.

[DwightMcCann]

I am convinced there are more clueless light board operators in this world than clueless photographers.

I see you have been paying attention! :-) I think one of the bigger problems with small venues is that the return on investment in a $5K lighting system isn't much ... will they really attract that much more business because the lights are better? So it is a business case. As for the light board guys, I think most of them are trying to make their contribution known and they are not particularly artistic.

[mijbril]

....And, you do know that I didn't start my concert shooting career with the best equipment in the world, don't you? :rolleyes:

Dwight, are you saying you worked to get where you are now??

This means us journeymen event photographers have to put in the hard yards first?? ;) As always, I learn something or have a previous point of yours re-pounded into my skull (it's a thick skull I have so it's takes some pounding!!!!) & so it's all good.

As to the original posts, if you ever find out what they're doing in #3, I'd run!!!!!

[DwightMcCann]

Geez, Brad, I'm pretty sure it was luck ... I'm only saying that I have some experience shooting with one or two bare tungsten bulbs to light a three to five man band in a tiny biker bar. Today I'm home because in my manly manner I tried to lift my half of the couch with my wife ["Honey, let's see what the couch looks like over there?!"] and I tweaked my back so I'm trying to make everyone else pay! Oh, my earlier, earlier work ... I didn't know anything so I shot with flash 99% of the time. Whoops, didn't mean to steal the thread ... be happy to delete this reply if the OP would like. Also, Bas, you might want to turn on IMAGE EDITING OK in your USER CP in case someone would like to edit and upload one of your images to demonstrate something.

[basroil]

Also, Bas, you might want to turn on IMAGE EDITING OK in your USER CP in case someone would like to edit and upload one of your images to demonstrate something.

guess i forgot to do that..

as for the arguing, it's usually helpful, cuz then i get several different opinions to judge and weigh into future reference

[mijbril]

....as for the arguing, it's usually helpful, cuz then i get several different opinions to judge and weigh into future reference

A sound philosophy to carry through life :)

Still have not worked out what they're doing in #3 but it's a very amusing shot :)

[yonioron]

good shots!

boring show.. (i was there!)

[basroil]

#3 is some sort of dance thing, they did mainly jackson stuff to the wrong music. next big thing is tomorrow or friday, so i'll be posting those when i take them

[Issac Brock]

(not too much talent but a lot of show, all 3 hours of it).

Aww, you're so sweet. Sounds like a friendly guy to me :)

[basroil]

this is only pic ive uploaded so far of friday night's show

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/6141/web67160bv.jpg

DwightMcCann, this more to your liking? flash was used (think -2/3ev), and i was about 20 feet from the subject. white balance tweaked to what i feel shows the most about the jazz song playing at the moment.

:edit: by dramatic stage lighting you mean a single spotlight right? cuz this isn't some for profit show, all done in a school auditorium with 30 year old lights and students behind the equipment

[DwightMcCann]

Yes, I do like this: the flash is not offensive and the lighting is OK. Of course, it would have been nice of her to turn toward you, get the mike out of her mouth, look you in the eye and smile. I occasionally get performers to do that, but not often. :-) The best shots have dramatic stage lighting as well as all these other attributes.