85mm f/1.8 for shooting live music

[narlus]

i'm tempted to get this lens to augment my concert photos, but w/ a 1.6x crop factor i am fearing it might be too long. however, the 50mm might be too short for when i can't get close to the stage (i do this for fun, not as an assignment), and i am thinking the USM mechanism may mean better, more accurate focusing.

thoughts?

is this a good lens to have in my bag anyway? i've currently got the kit lens, the 50mm, and the 70-200 f/4. am shopping for a wide angle, likely the Tokina.

[René Damkot]

It's a nice lens. Like you said, might be a bit long on a 1.6 crop, but might come in handy as well. And it's 2 1/3 stop faster then your 70-200... So if you use the zoom, and find it too slow: get the 85. If you find the zoom too long, the 85 will be too long as well ;)

[narlus]

It's a nice lens. Like you said, might be a bit long on a 1.6 crop, but might come in handy as well. And it's 2 1/3 stop faster then your 70-200... So if you use the zoom, and find it too slow: get the 85. If you find the zoom too long, the 85 will be too long as well ;)

sorry i wasn't clear; i don't use the 70-200 lens for live music shots; i've been using my 50mm exclusively, and pretty much wide open @ 1.8.

[kmb]

i'm tempted to get this lens to augment my concert photos, but w/ a 1.6x crop factor i am fearing it might be too long. however, the 50mm might be too short for when i can't get close to the stage (i do this for fun, not as an assignment), and i am thinking the USM mechanism may mean better, more accurate focusing.

thoughts?


I bought the 85/1.8 a month ago or so, and I've used it for three concert shooting sessions sofar. I did a little survey of the pictures that have ended in my gallery to see how useful the lens has been for me, and as I thought, it has proven its place in my bag. Below are the pictures that have 85mm in their EXIF - it is possible that if the mentioned aperture is f2.8 or smaller the picture is taken with the 70-200/2.8, but I'd guess all of these have been taken with the 85 mm lens. It has its uses even in non-FF cameras, I'd say.

http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-320
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-339
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-354
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-353
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-344
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-352
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-335
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-331
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-332
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-346
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-350
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-383
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-365
http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-368

Some of the above pictures are cropped, I'm sure.

[narlus]

interesting that you chose shutter priority so often; are the stages well-lit? to be able to use a stop in the 4-7 (http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-353) range i guess they must be!

also, why do you bump the exposure bias down a 1/3? just curious; i've got loads to learn.

thanks!

[René Damkot]

Well, I use the following on my 1D2: 20/1.8; 28/1.8; 50/1.4; 100/2.0 and 80-200/2.8L
When I shot with a 10D I needed the wide angle (20mm) more then nowadays, but if I were you, I'ld look into something wider as well. (Unless you shoot in bigger venues / like to do portraits instead of group shots) for close cropped portraits: 85/1.8 all the way.
Kind of a personal preference thing I guess... You could always try the 70-200 to see what 85mm is like.

[kmb]

interesting that you chose shutter priority so often; are the stages well-lit? to be able to use a stop in the 4-7 (http://bjorklid.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-353) range i guess they must be!


The lighting varied a great deal at the festival where that shot was taken. I use shutter priority because I give priority to having a hand-holdable shutter speed at any time (the lighting changes quite rapidly some times), and most of the time the aperture required will be around f2.8 (many times larger than that), so when more light is available there will be more depth of field. That is, with the 85/1.8, I consider 1/100s and f5.6 a more sensible setting than 1/500 and f1.8 (or something like that), because with the latter settings DoF would be so shallow that I think there is (for my shooting style) a larger probability of failure. I use the "safety shift"-custom function in my 20D, so if more light is needed than the largest aperture and the shutter speed I've set can provide, the camera will choose proper shutter speed.

also, why do you bump the exposure bias down a 1/3? just curious; i've got loads to learn.

I consider myself a beginner as well in this field (I've shot six separate concert events so far), and I'm trying to manage with 20D's evaluative metering mode and luminosity histogram. I've learned that many times with no compensation there will be a clipped channel (the red channel most often) that I can't recover afterwards even though I shoot RAW. I cannot verify this on site since there is no RGB histogram in 20D. If 20D had a spot meter, I'd probably use it (I have never tried spot metering in concert shooting situations, though), since with evaluative metering you never can be sure how the exposure was computed. I guess one has to shoot enough to get a "gut feeling" how it works... Anyways, I'm planning on getting the 5D, and after/if I get it, I have no excuses if I don't get correctly exposed shots without bracketing.

[narlus]

the local calumet store does offer a rental of this lens, which i am tempted to get for the next show (Mogwai @ Avalon, which is a pretty big room). i figure that it might be $35 well spent, just to play around w/ it.

edit - Kalle, thanks for the info. i'm guessing my 350D doesn't have that safety-shift feature. also, one other question on which metering to use. i pretty much leave it at evaluative; any benefit to switching to partial or center-weighted?

[René Damkot]

Evaluative means the camera does the thinking, on partial/center weighted you should do the thinking. Mine is mostly at eval. unless I'm in Manual.

Mogwai. Cool! Be sure to post some pics!

[narlus]

Mogwai. Cool! Be sure to post some pics!

definitely...hopefully the venue won't be an issue; they claim they defer to the band on camera access, and the reply i got from Matador (mogwai's US label) tells me the band is fine w/ it. i will likely take the 50 and rental 85, and depending on where i end up, stick w/ one lens so i'm not forced to change in the midst of potential chaos.

i would be very curious about these lenses too: 20/1.8; 28/1.8

could give me a nice wide shot, esp w/ the 1.6x factor. the 20 (sigma, i am guessing?) might be a tad too wide, but the 28 seems like a sweet spot.

i also wish i was taller for some of these venues... :confused:

[René Damkot]

28/1.8 (http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060104BoltThrower/source/rhd20060104bolt440.html) and another one (http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060104BoltThrower/source/rhd20060104bolt050.html)
20mm Sigma (http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060128deKift/source/rhd20060128kift0017.htm)
To give a better impression:
This is with the 28mm (http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060128deKift/source/rhd20060128kift0020.htm), this is the same guy with 100mm (http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060128deKift/source/rhd20060128kift0027.htm), and finally with the 50/1.4 (http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060128deKift/source/rhd20060128kift0053.htm)
All shot in the same venue, capacity approx 300 people, so quite small...

[narlus]

René those boltthrower shots are pretty sweet! definitely did a nice job w/ 'em.

i'd imagine that the crowd could get a bit, uh, turbulent, in front of the stage. is it easy to stand yr ground ok, or do people give you a berth when they see the camera?

also, is changing lenses in that enviroment a bad idea, or ok? i can't see the EXIF data but imagine you used more than one lens.

thanks for those! these are superb:
http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060104BoltThrower/image/rhd20060104bolt050.jpg
http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060104BoltThrower/image/rhd20060104bolt064.jpg
http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/060104BoltThrower/image/rhd20060104bolt146.jpg

looked to be 3 different bands on stage, who were the other two?

[René Damkot]

Turbulent crowd, yes. But when you are pressed against the front rows, there's not much moving ;) Also people do have a bit of concideration.
Changing lenses in the pit is not recommended :lol: I do change lenses when I'm out of the audience. A lot.

Other bands that night: Malevolent Creation, Nightrage, Nocrophagist (pick two; I missed one...)

Btw: on a 1.6 crop body FoV with the 20 would be approx. FoV I get with the 28 on my 1D2. (32mm vs. 36mm FF equivalent)

[kmb]

Changing lenses in the pit is not recommended :lol: I do change lenses when I'm out of the audience. A lot.


With a shoulder bag selected/designed for usage while it's hanging on your shoulder you can change lenses without much risk in the crowd - if you get against the front security fence. You just throw the bag on/over the fence so that it's hanging in front of you. That's what I try to do, but it sometime does require a heap of patience to stand in the front of the stage for two hours (maybe even dealing with loud drunken teenagers) without a chance of getting a drink or anything... The worst part is that afterwards when people comment on your pictures they will not know or appreciate the pain you went through to get the pictures [end of rant].

:D

[René Damkot]

True, that's why I love my Billingham... I meant I don't change lenses in a mosh-pit. However, I don't leave the venue to do so either. If the crowd is just dancing, its do-able.
With a mosh-pit, I just choose a lens, leave my bag somewhere safe (with the monitor-sound guy or so) and only take my camera. No security fence where I work ;)

[narlus]

i was always very impressed w/ the quality of shots Charles Peterson was able to get from the belly of the mosh pit.

[fdpiech]

When I shoot stage at my usual venue I work from the two lighing alcoves on the sides of the first row. On my 10D the 85mm works REALLY well and getting good crisp, low noise head shots.

If you do a lot of stage work, it can be a good compliment in your bag.

[narlus]

ok, so w/ the 350D crop factor i am rethinking my lens rental choice for the Mogwai shoot, and may lean towards the 35 f/2 lens instead...in a perfect world i'd rent both, but i doubt i'd get my $ worth and would really like to minimize lens changeouts (not sure how crowded it'll be, but i am guessing very). keep in mind i've already got a 50 f/1.8, so should i go wider or longer?

thanks in advance.

[kmb]

ok, so w/ the 350D crop factor i am rethinking my lens rental choice for the Mogwai shoot, and may lean towards the 35 f/2 lens instead...in a perfect world i'd rent both, but i doubt i'd get my $ worth and would really like to minimize lens changeouts (not sure how crowded it'll be, but i am guessing very). keep in mind i've already got a 50 f/1.8, so should i go wider or longer?

I'd say it depends on your goals. If you're hunting for one or two "really cool" concert shots go for the 85mm - as I see it, single close-up shots tend to be more interesting than single wide(r) shots (but this is only a personal opinion). However, if you want to get a good, solid gallery out of the whole show with varying shots, I'd go for the wider lens, as you do need to get shots with multiple performers in them, etc.

[narlus]

i suppose it would help if i knew where i'd be able to station myself...i'm not the tallest person, so getting closer to the stage would be better so i don't get random head shots from people moving about in front of me.

i think i'll stick w/ the 85mm plan...that's probably the lens i'd be buying if i am impressed w/ the performance, and i would love to see how the USM aids in low-light focusing.

if i need a wider shot, i can see if i can get up to the balcony for a bit and shoot w/ the 50.

[René Damkot]

Here's (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=163402) a post of mine with, at the end, some different types of shots with the 50/1.4. That's on a 1.3 crop, so FoV of 35mm on 1.6 crop would be slightly wider. (56mm vs. 65mm eq.)