I *HATE* it when people do this....

[dp99]

contact me from a reference. Look over my portfolio, get a quote, arrange all the details with 50 bajillion emails, get the contract, email you to say they are mailing it back to you with the deposit - - - - -

then you get an email saying "we've decided to save money and we're having a friend shoot it for free." :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::e vil:

It's not like I'm charging an arm and a leg, either. The area I'm in....there are 6 other pro photogs. Wedding prices range from $350 (lowball guy with an old film camera, who ummmmm.....does about $350 worth of work. For that, he gives them the negs! )to $1500, with that being an older man who's been in business for 50 years.

I'm somewhere in the middle. And I'm consistently getting dumped for the friend with the free offer.

How do I avoid this? How do I clinch the sale? (Because I REALLY need the $$$ that weddings bring me ;) )

[psykoko]

you will make pay the estimation, and if you have the business you minore the estimation on the price.
If no business... you have the price of the estimation...

(sorry for my english)

[tim]

You have to show you can do a better job than a friend or another pro. Having big impressive albums helps. Having slide shows on DVDs helps. Being a great photographer helps. Being great with people and great at sales helps!

In the end if people are shopping on price there's not a lot you can do to get their business other than cut your price, but I wouldn't recommend that.

[StealthLude]

Ya that sucks man!

I dont know if paying for estimates is going to fly with people. I think jsut an impressive portfolio will speak for itself.

[dp99]

I don't want to make them pay for estimates, as no one else around here does.

I *do* have a pretty decent portfolio. I'm the type of person who can find something wrong with every picture I take, though. I have clients who travel 8 hours or more to have me photograph their children - loyal customers that I've had for years. So it's not like my work isn't known.

This particular woman (Lady A) saw the pictures I did of Lady B's kids. (The father of Lady B's first child is also the father of Lady A's children. Lady B hired me based on the suggestion of Lady C, then Lady B sent Lady A to me.) Confused yet?

Anyway, with this one, I think Lady C's husband (who really really wants to be a photographer) found out I was doing the wedding and offered his services.

*sigh* Honestly, my prices are reasonable, my portfolio is alright - but I've lost 3 weddings lately. This one I think I know who I lost it to.

The other two, I lost to the $350 guy. And I REFUSE to shoot a wedding for $350!!!!

I guess it does come down to people price shopping...but you get what you pay for....

I'm just really discouraged right now.

Thanks for the suggestions.....

[Photorebel]

In the end if people are shopping on price there's not a lot you can do to get their business other than cut your price, but I wouldn't recommend that.

A price war is an un-winnable war. Might win a battle now and then, but never the war. No matter how much one might cut prices, there will always be someone cheaper. Before you know it, you're working all the time and making
less and less.
OTOH, if one can deliver consistent quality, this is a winnable war. Might lose a few clients, but over time, a reputation for quality is far better than a reputation for just being the cheapest.

[Photorebel]

I *do* have a pretty decent portfolio. I'm the type of person who can find something wrong with every picture I take, though. I have clients who travel 8 hours or more to have me photograph their children - loyal customers that I've had for years.


That says volumes for the quality of your work. No way would I drive 8 hours to have a mediocre photographer take photos of my kids, and I doubt most people would.

The only suggestion I would have is to look at marketing, advertising, either doing more, or something different.

Once you start cutting prices..it could lead to a price war....and believe it or not, will hurt your business in the long run.
Just my 02 cents worth.

[Saralonde]

Maybe there is a way you can gently let people know, perhaps in your initial presentation, that weddings are a once in a lifetime event (we hope) and you don't want to leave anything to chance. Show one of your best photos and explain why it is almost impossible for an amateur to deliver a shot like that unless they are lucky. Do they want to leave it up to luck? Wedding pictures are the only concrete memory of the day. Flowers fade, dresses are packed away, etc. but photos are a wonderful reminder of a happy family event that you can share with others.

[AjP]

there are always going to be couples who just fishing, they want the best and don't want spend money for it...so they jumping from one photographer to another...and at the end.... they will end up with what they payed for...cheap, low quality pics...and then one day they going to thier friends house and see awesome album made by photogrpher they rejected..oooppsss

I agree with prev posts, there always going to be photographers who has low prices, below any possible amount...because this is not thier main job, they just starting, etc...the only way to avoid it, is to keep your prices and work with diff level of clients, who not looking for budget or low prices packages..

IMHO

[RichardtheSane]

JUst an idea, but maybe your prices are in the range where people thinking of getting a pro in start looking.

How much would it hurt to up your prices a little so you get into the 'serious about getting a pro' range.

If that makes sense

[Steve Parr]

While I don't shoot weddings, I do shoot paid gigs. I never assume that I've "got the gig" until I'm on-site.

Weddings aren't cheap. I wouldn't fault someone for trying to save some money, nor would I fault them for not understanding what the difference between a "good" and a "bad" photographer is.

If you're good, losing one gig probably isn't going to break you...

[spencer87]

keep your chin up, dp99 :) I think the suggestion for a different marketing/advertising strategy is a good one. Word of mouth is a great tool, but if personal references arent giving you enough clients (or in this case the kind of clients willing to pay) you may want to try targeting a slightly different crowd.

i've also noticed, at least in my area, that some of the top wedding photographers and studios dont deal with 'estimates.' One of my art professors owns her own studio and does weddings, and they offer various packages with standard prices. That way the clients know right away before making an appointment if they are willing to pay her prices.

[staciecd]

As I interview wedding photographers, very few offer the price up front on their web site. Usually you have to call or e mail to get a list of package prices and they also send a portfolio. Plus personality is everything! It does suck when the client drags you along then decides to go somewhere else. I usually tell people, you get what you pay for.

Stacie

[Curtis N]

"There is almost nothing in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the customer who considers price only is this man's lawful prey."
I remember reading this on a placard at Baskin Robbins. I don't know who wrote it, or if I got the quote exactly right, but it's something that anyone in business must accept.

[Spiral Photo]

You know what I hate? When friends (who KNOW you are a photographer and see you do it regularly) say that they're going to get engagement portraits. Okay, so I say "Great! When would you like to get them done?" And they say, "Well, we're thinking more of hiring a professional."

WHAT????? Wait a second...I do this for a living. I make money from it. I have a good portfolio. You've seen my work and what I do. Yet you don't think I'm a professional? You think I do this as a hobby? Sure I have fun with it, but this is my specialty. This is what I do.

That's like looking at a Porsche and saying, "No thanks, we're looking for a car that goes fast."

[mbze430]

You know what I hate? When friends (who KNOW you are a photographer and see you do it regularly) say that they're going to get engagement portraits. Okay, so I say "Great! When would you like to get them done?" And they say, "Well, we're thinking more of hiring a professional."

WHAT????? Wait a second...I do this for a living. I make money from it. I have a good portfolio. You've seen my work and what I do. Yet you don't think I'm a professional? You think I do this as a hobby? Sure I have fun with it, but this is my specialty. This is what I do.

That's like looking at a Porsche and saying, "No thanks, we're looking for a car that goes fast."

That's just sad.

In my case, I have to beat them down with a stick to get them off my back. NEVER will I do a wedding!

[robby818]

$$$$$- most people underestimate the cost associated with weddings. By the time they talk to a photographer, they have paid many thousands of dollars to many more people than they would have ever thought of when they first started planning the wedding. They may be over budget, so they are trying to do whatever it takes to save money....

Also, people think that if their friend has a digital SLR, they will get photos comprable to what a pro would take. A lot of people think that it is the big expensive camera that is taking great photos....

The client meeting is really important, that is your chance to make an amazing impression and basically convince the bride that she NEEDS a good photographer. That portfolio has got be great not just good, but more than just the portfolio it is your personality that will really make an impact on the client.

Give people a DVD slideshow of your best work that way they will have something to remind them later why they want to hire you.

Also, if that client really did tell you they were using a friend (after wasting all of your time), that was a bit inconsiderate and I'd try to market to a different (read more affluent, educated) group of clients who understand+appreciate that your time is valuable. Dentists, attorneys, doctors...= lots of disposable income.

[delhi]

Let me tell you this story which I find utter crap and cheapskate. We hired a very good pro photographer for our wedding. Paid big bux for it because we believed in his work. Alot of our friends saw the resulting albums and were super impressed.
When their turns came, they went to asked for a quote and couldn't stomach the cost. Downloaded our wedding pix from my online gallery and asked some low-rent photog to just copy the picture/composition styles! Now that is just pathetic!
Friends and families ask me to be their wedding photogs and expect me to do it for free. I told them to bugger off and get a real pro. I can be a backup guy. I respect pros who pour blood and sweat on this in general. That's why we rather pay for good quality photographers because after all said and done, the pictures still capture the moments. I can never remember what I ate or the many conversations, but the pictures will remain.

[Mafud]

How to get over being a Wedding shooter:
Go find the Polo Pony set: (A Polo field is 900' long X 300' wide.)
What you need is at least an 80-400/100-400 IS and 28-70 f/2.8 professional lens set.
You must shoot Polo from the sunny end, about 25' from the sun side of the goal; (shooting dead center of the goal is tantamount to suicide when three or four Ponies are bearing down on the goal @ 20+ mph and you're smack dab in their sights).
Shoot and shoot some more until you get good at capturing action. If you find yourself at a Chukkar competition and you're good, you'll come away with 200-250 shots.
Post your best (best dammit!) Polo shots on your Web page, print some action shots on 4 x 6 photos to pass out next time.
Send the “Association” your web site URL: they’re suckers for shots of themselves.
If you have the gear and software, print A4s right there on location.
My son and his wife make money at Polo Chukkars, Motocross, Drag races, Motorcycle shows, car shows-etc.
they never do Weddings and get $40 per 11 x 17, 11 x 14 "hot" (location printed) photo and often enough (until they smartened up that is), they either ran out of paper or ink. $1,500 to $3,000 per event day.
Rain is the only thing that messes with outdoor imaging...and blowing dust.

But they make the most money from the Horsey (Polo) set, (being able to take credit cards wirelessly helps).

What does any of that above have to do with Weddings? Not one damn thing.
Let those "newbie" (are you one?) digital SLR shooters shoot cheap Weddings since the Wedding field is becoming more crowded by the hour it seems.
Here's a head's up:
Shooting Trophy presentations at Chukkars gets multiple print orders from teams and individuals, sometimes even sponsors.
And the same crowd that can afford to haul a trailer full of $50,000 to $100,000 Polo Ponies from here to wherever, will pay good money to their regular "Pony shooter" to do seasonal (Christmas) family photos, where the sky is literally the limit.
The best part? Once you're in with the Horsey set, they pass you along to their friends and their friends pass you along...you get my drift?
Anyone worth a damn at shooting Polo Ponies (and other performance Horses like Quarter horses, Jumpers and even Cutting Horses) makes +$50,000 year net after expenses and taxes (if you're worth a damn that is)
Still want to shoot Weddings?
You could go out to your local Community Airport and if you can wangle a good spot, take shots of landings and takeoffs. [/I]
Not one Pilot living won’t buy a shot of his landing/takeoff, especially of his aircraft is shown correctly.$30 to $50 a pop. How will you sell/contact them?
Tack a 4 x 6 on the Pilot’s briefing bulletin board with your info stamped over the body of the aircraft. If you captured a good shot of their aircraft, they will call.
Better: if you captured one of the locals landing his Cessna Citation or Beech King Air-SALE!




Only drawback for the Horsey set? You must, must dress "well". No slouches, no "unwashed" need apply. No jeans, no "cap to the back", no imprinted T-shirts, no politics plastered on your vehicle, no dirty vehicles, no shorts.
Your photo gear must be not only functional, it must be impressive (and no mere $7,000 DSLR will impress them, they who have shelves with 1930s Leica "M"s used as book stops) and you must be crisp in your work.

The absolute best "Polo" lens?
PENTAX 250-600mm "L" zoom;
OK, Pentax doesn't make "L"s, they make big “L” sized Silver SMC Pentax IF "Pro" lenses which mm for mm, outperform Canon "L"s (their neutral Gamma helps)

[dp99]

good idea, Mafud...except the nearest polo field is aprox. 3000 miles and a continent or two away ;)

and I .....dare I say it.....enjoy shooting weddings :D I just don't like it when the friend-with-a-point-and-shoot takes away my fun ;)

[mizuno]

Price is not a competitive advantage.

Someone can and will always offer a cheaper price.

Your portfolio needs to sell you, not your pricelist.

[Zepher]

My area has a huge price range for wedding photography, $650 to $6000+ with the average being in the $2000 range.
I did my first wedding photography shoot as a second shooter for a friend of mine and after doing that, I don't want to shoot wedding pictures anymore. It's way too stressfull
i've been doing wedding videography for 12 years (which I am tired of doing that as well), but I would glady tape 1000 more weddings than photograph another one.
We do have an upcoming video shoot where the clients can't afford a photographer and they asked us if we could take some stills of some the family and some group shots at the reception, so that will be the only type of wedding photography I will do, basic low stress posed shots.