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_andrew
17th of May 2006 (Wed), 17:44
Soon I will be shooting at a few weekend soccer games and I need to know whether its ok just to go up - start shooting and give the parents my business card or do I need permission from the actual soccer club?

The reason I saw privacy issue's is because some of the kids will be of a young age (anywhere from 5+) and I thought this might cause a problem!

danedel
17th of May 2006 (Wed), 18:29
Its always a good idea to introduce yourself to everyone :-)

dgcorner
17th of May 2006 (Wed), 18:33
Yep, introduce yourself to everyone. When the PC police come along at least the parents will know who you are.

_andrew
17th of May 2006 (Wed), 18:38
Thanks for the info - I think what I might do is approach parents before the game and give them a business card each, tell them that they can find pictures for sale on the website shown on the card.

That way - they know I'm doing it for a legit business!

Thanks guys!

Knightshade
18th of May 2006 (Thu), 07:10
You might want to talk to somebody that sits on the soccer board as well. Getting their ok never hurts.

_andrew
18th of May 2006 (Thu), 07:57
I might email the regional soccer board and see what they think.

Benji
18th of May 2006 (Thu), 15:25
I guess I'm wondering why anyone would want to pay you hard earned $$$ for some images they could probably shoot themselves. It isn't like your going to have professional studio lighting at the games, right?

Benji

brivett
18th of May 2006 (Thu), 16:21
Yeh right Benji - Like all the parents have both the equipment and the skills....real helpfull post (not)

Andrew, go for it but gain agreement from the organisers. Don't post pics on a website unless you have approval.

_andrew
18th of May 2006 (Thu), 17:29
Yeh right Benji - Like all the parents have both the equipment and the skills....real helpfull post (not)

Andrew, go for it but gain agreement from the organisers. Don't post pics on a website unless you have approval.

I may only be a developing photographer but I can tell you now, some of the shots I have seen from parents are just hopeless. It's a big market with loads of oppurtunities, especially for starting out. It's not like you see parents taking photo's with their L series lenses getting down and right into the photography - they would much rather watch the game!

Thanks for the help there brivett!

Yeah, that's something I will have to look into soon. There should be some contact information around here somewhere - I can't see any reason why they would have problems with it.

After that - I have to get the courage to approach the parents with my business cards. Any ideas that might make me a little more confident there? Once my logo has been finished and finalised I am going to get a few polo shirts made up with the business name on it - which will make me look a little more professional!

brivett
19th of May 2006 (Fri), 01:36
I would recommend wearing a tabbard - t-shirt with your business name / web address on the back - It lends credibility by showing that you're not shooting for a personal interest.

Benji
19th of May 2006 (Fri), 08:45
Yeh right Benji - Like all the parents have both the equipment and the skills....real helpfull post (not).

I know of several who have have more expensive equipment than some professional photographers have. A buddy of mine who works for a landscaper has a Canon 5d!

Benji

roy sugars
19th of May 2006 (Fri), 08:57
hey
(not a pro but been around this type of group)

it might be an idea to go to a game the week or 2 before and talk to the people on the graound, they can then tell the kids or the parents that you will be there on the day. it could get them to come to you (make it easier on you, not as nurve racking)

from sailing experience company name and contact in the back is a very good idea, also maybe you name on the sleave ? this again makes you more approchable. (sticking looks more professional than printing, also lasts longer and looks better)

lastly you might think of getting a jacket or fleece sticked up to (sticking looks so much beeter than printing) this gives you flexability with weather and still have your info on display

roy

Seefutlung
19th of May 2006 (Fri), 09:31
Firstly ... if it is in a public arena ... you have a right to shot regardless of age (and the parents feel they have a right to harass), but you do not have the RIGHT to shoot commercially. I know that at soccer tourneys there are commercial photogs there with a booth selling images ... I assume that the organizer is charging them for the booth ... so there may be a conflict if you didn't pay the organizer for commercial rights and you are competing against a company that did pay.

Secondly, you cannot use an identifiable image of a person (regardless of age) for commercial purposes without their consent. So I would talk with the parents before the game and get them to initial a consent form and identify the player by number. That would get a potential legal bear off your back and allow you to concentrate on paying clients.

Unfortunately, things are not very simple anymore. Assuming that you will post the pixs on the internet ... I would have similar disclaimers and some legal language to further protect yourself on the internet site.

And get some business cards to hand out ... a photo ID around your neck isn't a bad idea also.

Seefutlung
19th of May 2006 (Fri), 09:44
oops ... I just noticed you are in Oz ... dunno about Sydney or Aussie law.

_andrew
19th of May 2006 (Fri), 16:32
Firstly ... if it is in a public arena ... you have a right to shot regardless of age (and the parents feel they have a right to harass), but you do not have the RIGHT to shoot commercially. I know that at soccer tourneys there are commercial photogs there with a booth selling images ... I assume that the organizer is charging them for the booth ... so there may be a conflict if you didn't pay the organizer for commercial rights and you are competing against a company that did pay.

Secondly, you cannot use an identifiable image of a person (regardless of age) for commercial purposes without their consent. So I would talk with the parents before the game and get them to initial a consent form and identify the player by number. That would get a potential legal bear off your back and allow you to concentrate on paying clients.

Unfortunately, things are not very simple anymore. Assuming that you will post the pixs on the internet ... I would have similar disclaimers and some legal language to further protect yourself on the internet site.

And get some business cards to hand out ... a photo ID around your neck isn't a bad idea also.

Well I can tell you after playing soccer here for 13 odd years - I never saw any kind of professional photographer taking photo's. I know that my parents and other parents would have been happy to buy them!

So for your second point, your pretty much saying I can't use them on my website or on my homepage, etc without their consent? I was thinking of approaching the committee of each soccer club around the area and see how they co-operate with me.

Maybe I can try and shoot soley for one club - getting all age groups and maybe come to an agreement to advertise my website on there monthly newsletter. I don't know how this would work, again, would they ask for a cut in the profits (if there are any made)?

Thanks for all the reply's!

Seefutlung
19th of May 2006 (Fri), 19:06
Well I can tell you after playing soccer here for 13 odd years - I never saw any kind of professional photographer taking photo's. I know that my parents and other parents would have been happy to buy them!

So for your second point, your pretty much saying I can't use them on my website or on my homepage, etc without their consent? I was thinking of approaching the committee of each soccer club around the area and see how they co-operate with me.

Maybe I can try and shoot soley for one club - getting all age groups and maybe come to an agreement to advertise my website on there monthly newsletter. I don't know how this would work, again, would they ask for a cut in the profits (if there are any made)?

Thanks for all the reply's!

All I know is US law ... in the US you can shoot all you want and do whatever you please with your images as long as you do not misrepresent the situation/person and as long as the image(s) is not used commercially. So you can toss them on your website ... but once you sell an image without consent ... here in the US you are opening up a can of worms. Personally, I don't see much of a problem ... but it only takes one crack-pot attorney parent to ruin your day. It just might be worth getting an attorney to review everything and write any/all disclainers and notices.

If you haven't seen any photogs covering youth soccer in Sydney ... you have an untouched marketplace. At tourney's here two to three photogs work the games concentrating mainly on head/toro shots to see a face (half the photos don't even have a ball). At the end of the game the images are printed at the field and tossed into a binder. Parents look at the binders and pull the photos they wish to purchase. As you know ... a parent and a dollar will easily part when it comes to their little prince or princess. Check out Action Photos ,,, that is one of the outfits that shoots soccer here, they have a web site.

Following one team is fine .. but after one or two games that well will soon run dry ... but then there's the other team.

Good Luck

Brad_T
22nd of May 2006 (Mon), 00:52
I am not familiar at all with this sort of photography (I shoot concerts) but there is no right to privacy laws in Australia, so you just have to make sure you are not using someones image to advertise your company (selling the photos doesn't count as advertising), that you are not damaging their reputation (they need to have one first) and that you are not breaking any trespass laws (for example if you are shooting on private land the owner can rightfully ask you to stop shooting). Other than that you can shoot and sell all you want - you don't need a model release. I've got some more info on my site if you feel like reading more.

300Dplus
22nd of May 2006 (Mon), 23:04
... you have a right to shot regardless of age (and the parents feel they have a right to harass),...but you do not have the RIGHT to shoot commercially...

Secondly, you cannot use an identifiable image of a person (regardless of age) for commercial purposes without their consent.

Assuming that you will post the pixs on the internet ... I would have similar disclaimers and some legal language to further protect yourself on the internet site.

So you can toss them on your website ... but once you sell an image without consent ... here in the US you are opening up a can of worms.

Gary, Andrew, if you put the pictures in a passworded gallery and give the password to the parents, wouldn't that solve the problem? You are not showing them to the world but to the ones most likely to buy them...(at least for now. Different story when you become a famous sports shooter;) )

_andrew
22nd of May 2006 (Mon), 23:28
Gary, Andrew, if you put the pictures in a passworded gallery and give the password to the parents, wouldn't that solve the problem? You are not showing them to the world but to the ones most likely to buy them...(at least for now. Different story when you become a famous sports shooter;) )

That's a great idea - maybe the business cards i give out can have a password on it for parents?